- Location
- Greece
It would make a lot of sense for one of the strictures of the goddess of healing to be "Triage" actually.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
It would make a lot of sense for one of the strictures of the goddess of healing to be "Triage" actually.
I have a feeling that when the Estalian book comes out, there will be a 'curious' lack of Taillans.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Triangulate?
I think you mean Triage?
But I meant more "don't act based on personal attachement", rather than "act based on severity and ability to help". Triage... feels like something hotly debated, especially the part where you don't help those too heavily injured. Some would see it as a painful need, and others as admitting to a lack of piety/ability.
- Location
- Greece
Ack, I meant Triage, fixed.
Damnit, confused the words.
Edit for the ninja:
Triage would honestly be different with magic healing. The more heavily injured or ill would be prioritized, unless they are immune to healing for some reason?
So asking them to triage like that would have different connotations.
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Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
One could argue that someone too heavily injured would fall under the stricture of knowing when it is time for someone's soul to depart, and not delaying it.
would like to point out that 'miracle workers' are actually very rare, Mathy having a very twisted expectation of their prevalence.
being able to heal with a touch is an exception, not a standard.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
It would be exactly the same except with shifted goalposts of who can last a bit longer, who needs attention right this instant and who is beyond help.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Triage is about a situation with a lack of resources. For instance if you only have two Shallyans who can use magical healing, then they should prioitise saving as many as possible (ie five or six moderately injured, rather than two or three heavily injured). Magical healing changes what you can fix, but not the realities of triage sadly.
- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
Morr worship is also highly fragmented. They mostly agree on the important stuff though, and agree that the other stuff isn't important.
I'm sure they do. That topic is probably a whole 'nother debate
True, but so what? Wizard's consider being a wizard an inborn talent. I doubt the clerics do so as well (and we don't know they're wrong). So if someone dies because you can't cast miracles, then you are clearly lacking in piety. That won't really change the argument of someone taking that position.
She could be one of time travelling apprentices though.
Because that would mean 99% of the cult is 'clearly lacking piety'. Including not just the higher ups, but the average priest doing their best day in and day out.
Finding people 'lacking' by Comparing themto the literal miracle workers is ridiculous, and a great way to loss a lot of priest and laypersons that will lose their self-confidence in their right to do their work, or at least quit for a sense of no appreciation.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
More likely the cults see it as a sign of favour or excellence instead. The rest of the cult doesn't need to try to equal that standard, because the blessed are elevated, instead of the lay being lessened.
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Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They'd have to invent a lot of new stuff to fill out the Estalian roster. Tilea had a huge backlog of stuff to update and fit into modern Warhammer, but Estalia has so little to work on that it would practically be like making a new setting.
It would be even more work if they don't just resort to spanish stereotypes and caricatures to fill the blanks. Not that I know what that looks like. I just realised there aren't a lot of Spanish fictional settings that I know of.
Yup, it's about as ridiculous as prohibiting happiness. Which is what started this whole debate. So yeah, I'm totally willing to believe some parts see 99% of the priests as lacking.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
My personal interpretation is that she said something like "you should do as I do" and the followers promptly copied everything, including her constant misery.
- Location
- Finland
There is no idea so stupid that someone won't follow it.
Yes, there is no doubt a sect or two that do believe it, it is almost certainly not a majority belief.
I am also certain there is a sect or two that believe Shallya is actually one or more of the chaos gods in disguise and only biding their time before eating the world or transforming everyone into doves or both.
Could be, though Boney has said several times that her scriptures do not bind Shallya (IIRC it came up in the context of her smiting someone seriously heretic.)
I mean, there's the scripture that started this whole debate. That seems pretty pro-unhappiness, and self-flagellation was pretty wide-spread IRL, so humans are clearly capable of drifting into that. And at least going by GW published, it's at least a prominent idea, if not necessarily one that's lived.
- Location
- Greece
Sounds dope, tbh. I'm in.
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- Location
- Australia
There are a few things from WFRP: Up in Arms I want to share with the thread.
Page 60
Page 77 tells us this:
It seems the custom still holds strong among Imperial Myrmidians. (She is Imperial by the way. You can tell from the Imperial Crosses.)
Finally, though not of especial relevance to the thread, I imagine several people here would enjoy a couple pages of a dwarf complaining about human craftsmanship, so here they are, courtesy of pages 38 and 39.
Page 60
This would've taken place after the Karak Eight Peaks expedition, so he's apparently still around. Kinda cool that right now Gretel could be working for the Borgio. I'm not sure how the expedition affected his story, other than further improving the dwarves' opinion of him. I say "further" because they canonically have a high opinion of his skills already. Page 46:
Page 77 tells us this:
Toting around skulls seems to be an Imperial custom rather than an Old World custom. Furthermore, it seems that "Myrmidians" here is very much Estalian and Tilean Myrmidians because on page 78 we have this picture of a Warrior Priestess of Myrmidia:
Finally, though not of especial relevance to the thread, I imagine several people here would enjoy a couple pages of a dwarf complaining about human craftsmanship, so here they are, courtesy of pages 38 and 39.
Notes upon Contemplating Mediocre Umgi Harness
The first thing any Dawi smith notices about Umgi-made armour is how thin and pliable it is. The steel of several breastplates I examined were barely the thickness of the nail of a big toe, and I could take it in my hands and flex it with little effort. Despite this apparent flimsiness, the steel was well forged and tempered; even when subjected to significant duress, it came springing back into its intended shape. The thin sheet could not withstand the same punishment as equivalent pieces of armour produced by Dawi smiths, but we must not judge the Umgi armour on its durability alone. Miserliness and incompetence may account for certain shortcomings of the armour, but the steel is necessarily light and thin so that it can be borne by the feeble Umgi frame upon which it is worn.
The second thing one notices is the terrible stench that comes off Umgi armour. This is because if you say the word 'galvanise' to your typical Manling smith he'll stare at you with all the incomprehension of an inebriated Cave Troll. Instead, they deal with rusting suits by polishing the metal with a coarse paste of sand mixed with their own urine.
Manling smiths typically use rivets and leather strapping in order to hold their suits of armour together as a coherent unit, welds being beyond the ability of most of them. Here we see pieces of armour produced in the land of Tilea and known as a Miraglianese harness. This design of suit is popular even in the Empire, where local smiths prefer to embellish on the designs rather than put in the honest labour required to forge their own. Here is a guide to the inefficient terminology Manlings use to describe their underwhelming mail.
Helms worn by Manling knights come in a bewildering array of designs, ever changing according to the fleeting fads that prevent the establishment of true best practices and crafting traditions. This design is commonly known as an armet. It is padded with a layer of wool which is stitched into a lining which is then riveted to the inside of the helm. This is to protect the delicate Umgi skull without causing discomfort. Proper Dawi helms are lined with tough padded leather, which is less comfy but rather more durable and better at absorbing shock. The visor of the helm is removed by withdrawing a pin from either side. These pins are often lost in battle, compromising the helm. The helms of Dawi Ironbreakers do not suffer from this flaw because our smiths know the value of taking the time to craft a proper hinge. The faceplate, known also as a wrapper, covers the visor and cheek pieces. That so many pieces of metal are required to form one helm woefully compromises its strength and integrity. Only the blind among you will fail to see that an Imperial smith has added fancy decorations declaring their fealty to the Dwarf-friend Sigmar. Admirable, but do they need to be such overly elaborate adornments when a neat bit of runic script would do the same job without compromising the integrity of the structure? As for the ludicrous crest, least said soonest mended.
The large shoulder guards are called gardbraces by the Umgi. They are outsized and over-elaborate pieces that are pinned to the pauldron due to the Manling love of conducting warfare from the back of galloping nags, being so formed as to best absorb the impact of a lance. More leather straps and rivets are employed to fix the armour in place, the whole affair being so complex that an armoured Manling is dependent on the support of an assistant known as an arming squire just to get in and out of their suits. The thin strips of steel used to make the armour articulate are known as lames and they attach to the couter (what we would call the elbow cover) through an intricate system of rivets. This design isn't too bad really, being inspired by the work of our own smiths in the days of High King Ironbeard, the Umgi having just about mastered its fundamentals.
The cuisse is a flange pierced with holes that is attached to the bottom of the flimsy doublet most Manlings wear under their breastplates. It is made from leather and so will wear out before so much as a century of use. The poleyn, which is what sensible folk would call a kneecap, is fitted to more lames allowing the leg to bend without exposing any bare flesh. The greave, or calf armour, is trapped over the inside of the leg. You may remark on the ridiculous tapered sabatons Manlings wear on their feet. You'd be tripping over yourself if you had to march down the Ungdrin Ankor wearing such monstrosities! Again, their design is explained due to the strange desire to make war from horseback, the pointed ends making it easier for an Umgi knight to find a way into their stirrups.
The first thing any Dawi smith notices about Umgi-made armour is how thin and pliable it is. The steel of several breastplates I examined were barely the thickness of the nail of a big toe, and I could take it in my hands and flex it with little effort. Despite this apparent flimsiness, the steel was well forged and tempered; even when subjected to significant duress, it came springing back into its intended shape. The thin sheet could not withstand the same punishment as equivalent pieces of armour produced by Dawi smiths, but we must not judge the Umgi armour on its durability alone. Miserliness and incompetence may account for certain shortcomings of the armour, but the steel is necessarily light and thin so that it can be borne by the feeble Umgi frame upon which it is worn.
The second thing one notices is the terrible stench that comes off Umgi armour. This is because if you say the word 'galvanise' to your typical Manling smith he'll stare at you with all the incomprehension of an inebriated Cave Troll. Instead, they deal with rusting suits by polishing the metal with a coarse paste of sand mixed with their own urine.
Manling smiths typically use rivets and leather strapping in order to hold their suits of armour together as a coherent unit, welds being beyond the ability of most of them. Here we see pieces of armour produced in the land of Tilea and known as a Miraglianese harness. This design of suit is popular even in the Empire, where local smiths prefer to embellish on the designs rather than put in the honest labour required to forge their own. Here is a guide to the inefficient terminology Manlings use to describe their underwhelming mail.
Helms worn by Manling knights come in a bewildering array of designs, ever changing according to the fleeting fads that prevent the establishment of true best practices and crafting traditions. This design is commonly known as an armet. It is padded with a layer of wool which is stitched into a lining which is then riveted to the inside of the helm. This is to protect the delicate Umgi skull without causing discomfort. Proper Dawi helms are lined with tough padded leather, which is less comfy but rather more durable and better at absorbing shock. The visor of the helm is removed by withdrawing a pin from either side. These pins are often lost in battle, compromising the helm. The helms of Dawi Ironbreakers do not suffer from this flaw because our smiths know the value of taking the time to craft a proper hinge. The faceplate, known also as a wrapper, covers the visor and cheek pieces. That so many pieces of metal are required to form one helm woefully compromises its strength and integrity. Only the blind among you will fail to see that an Imperial smith has added fancy decorations declaring their fealty to the Dwarf-friend Sigmar. Admirable, but do they need to be such overly elaborate adornments when a neat bit of runic script would do the same job without compromising the integrity of the structure? As for the ludicrous crest, least said soonest mended.
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- Location
- USA
But how canonical is stuff in WFRP 4e for this quest? Even in a "fill in the blanks" way?
- Location
- Australia
Borgio becoming prince in 2485 was originally from Dogs of War, which is the only major source of information on him Boney could've been drawing from. The Empire's tendency to tote around skulls is well established in various pieces of art.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
For this quest, 2nd Edition sources take primacy, with other editions of the RPG and then finally the various army books in descending order of canonicity where they contradict each other, and used to fill in whatever lore gaps there are in 2nd Ed.
- Location
- Australia