Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I don't think Boney has said anything about priests being involved with the Fire Spire.

It takes a while for him to respond. "In daydream world, Teclis listened to Tzar Alexis. Stayed here, built here. Then Kislev could have Witches like you, bound by oath and law to serve Tzar and Kislev. But in this world, Fire Spire was ruined and never rebuilt. In this world, every true servant of the Bear and the Flame and the Thunder died in Praag, and now thieves and cowards choke their temples." He looks over to his glaive, glistening with cold magic. "In this world, when horse and steel is not enough, Winter is all we have left." He nods to himself as he reaches a decision. "Tell the Ice Court that Tsarevich Boris Bokha calls on them to defend the land they claim to serve."

Bear is Ursun, Flame is Dazh and Thunder is Tor. I conflated Flame with the Fire Spire, which seemingly was a secular college that invited ice witches, hags and imperial wizards (though Teclis did the colleges during the war and presumably after the Fire Spire fell to Chaos).
 
Bear is Ursun, Flame is Dazh and Thunder is Tor. I conflated Flame with the Fire Spire, which seemingly was a secular college that invited ice witches, hags and imperial wizards (though Teclis did the colleges during the war and presumably after the Fire Spire fell to Chaos).
Boney has already said that was about how pretty much every Kislevite who was courageous and in power died at Praag or Kislev City. Not a linking of the Fire Spire and the Kislevite Cults.
 
Bear is Ursun, Flame is Dazh and Thunder is Tor. I conflated Flame with the Fire Spire, which seemingly was a secular college that invited ice witches, hags and imperial wizards (though Teclis did the colleges during the war and presumably after the Fire Spire fell to Chaos).
Teclis started teaching students during the war, but Magnus didn't ask him to actually found the Colleges until after.

The Fire Spire was destroyed during the siege of Pragg.
 
I think the Fire Spire might have been less of a coherent institution that the Colleges. I mean think about it, the place had hag witches, pre-Teclisian Imperial magical traditions and even Ice witches, though they did not accept often, those are not bound together by anything, not even a single state. I think it was more of a forum for debate and exchange with maybe a few mages of every order making their home in Praag itself and helping to protect the city...

Actually thinking about it I do not even think it was secular in the sense that the Colleges are, following Volans and intentionally avoiding religious entanglements. I think the Fire Spire was Neutral more than anything else, you left your gods at the door when you took up a position in Praag since no one would want one or the other to gain primacy. A tradition of magic in the old world heavily influenced by the Spire in a post war world where they did not all die would I think look very different than the present one, though ironically it might be one in which Lady Magister Weber, favored of Ranald would fit in more than she does in the Colleges.

On the final tentacle, we do not know what kind of history the Spire may have had with the rest of the Old World, for all we know they had a long and abiding grudge against elves and dwarfs... well OK, maybe not dwarfs they would have grudged them right back.

Actually since I have given this so much thought... @Boney under that heading would books about the history of the Fire Spire fall? Books on Kislev or something else. I think it might be worth having them on hand, not just for what it might tell us about the order, but also about Kislev before the War. If we are going to get involved with them using the opening of a revanchist Boris it would be nice to know what he is hearkening back to.
 
Unfortunately someone wrote an omake that had Mathilde leave it to Algard and a line of it really stuck with me so now I want it to go to him:

"I regret that I must bring you the best kind of bad news: It could have been so, so much worse."
Do you remember which omake by chance?
 
Do you remember which omake by chance?
@Vebyast 's To Whom It May Concern
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

To Whom it May Concern: (That means you, Algard. Or maybe Dragomas, or maybe Heidi. Worst case, you've solved the puzzles in my tower, passed all of my secret and not-so-secret tests of character, didn't get blown up by any of the various deities that I asked to watch my stuff, and found and...
 
@Boney: you might have explained before, but what do you view as the lore behind the Fire Spire? It seems like you're referencing it as a mix of priesthoods with the divine references.
Bear is Ursun, Flame is Dazh and Thunder is Tor. I conflated Flame with the Fire Spire, which seemingly was a secular college that invited ice witches, hags and imperial wizards (though Teclis did the colleges during the war and presumably after the Fire Spire fell to Chaos).

The two are related only in that they are two different sources of magic-users that Kislev once had but can no longer rely upon. The Fire Spire was secular.

Actually since I have given this so much thought... @Boney under that heading would books about the history of the Fire Spire fall? Books on Kislev or something else. I think it might be worth having them on hand, not just for what it might tell us about the order, but also about Kislev before the War. If we are going to get involved with them using the opening of a revanchist Boris it would be nice to know what he is hearkening back to.

Kislev as a topic for books on the Fire Spire, but if you manage to get your hands on any Kislevite books on magical subjects, chances are they'd either have been published by magic users of the Fire Spire or would be referencing books that were.
 
So book hunt now for books on fire spire and books written at the fire spire. I wonder how much that one dawi clan loves Mathilde. She has probably funded every male dawi getting a wife.
 
So book hunt now for books on fire spire and books written at the fire spire. I wonder how much that one dawi clan loves Mathilde. She has probably funded every male dawi getting a wife.

Barak Varr to Erengrad is about five thousand miles by sea, which is something like Helsinki to Rome or London to Miami. And Erengrad has a fairly significant Elven presence. So Barak Varr is probably not the answer here. Considering how long ago the Fire Spire fell and how much the Colleges have come to prominence since then, you'd need some theoretical Dwarven Karak very close to Praag who would have had some need to preserve every insight into the nature of magic they could get for the past two centuries and no opportunity to trade those books away to the Colleges...
 
Barak Varr to Erengrad is about five thousand miles by sea, which is something like Helsinki to Rome or London to Miami. And Erengrad has a fairly significant Elven presence. So Barak Varr is probably not the answer here. Considering how long ago the Fire Spire fell and how much the Colleges have come to prominence since then, you'd need some theoretical Dwarven Karak very close to Praag who would have had some need to preserve every insight into the nature of magic they could get for the past two centuries and no opportunity to trade those books away to the Colleges...
Huh. Where could we possibly find one of those? :V
 
Where would we ever find a Karak with knowledge of magic and willingness to trade or just give Mathilde the knowledge. Mathilde would have to save a Karak from untold horrors to get it.

Ok in all seriousness I wonder now if they would be willingly to tell Mathilde other insights into the warp they know since they spent over a century in the warp.
 
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Barak Varr to Erengrad is about five thousand miles by sea, which is something like Helsinki to Rome or London to Miami. And Erengrad has a fairly significant Elven presence. So Barak Varr is probably not the answer here. Considering how long ago the Fire Spire fell and how much the Colleges have come to prominence since then, you'd need some theoretical Dwarven Karak very close to Praag who would have had some need to preserve every insight into the nature of magic they could get for the past two centuries and no opportunity to trade those books away to the Colleges...
...Hunh.

So, I took a quick look at our Kron-Azril-Ungol options:
Kron-Azril-Ungol
Status: Under construction.
The first AP spent in this category is free. Any additional choices cost 1 AP.
[ ] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (specify which: Bretonnia, Kislev, Tilea/Estalia, Araby)
Gives wide and easy access within a language, but is subject to local restrictions and is a less efficient use of the Library's acquisition budget than other methods.
[ ] Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library to be able to make copies of their corpus (specify which, eg: Great Library of Marienburg, Great Library of Altdorf, Ancient Library of Carroburg)
Difficulty will depend on the size, prestige, and disposition of the library in question, and the relative impressiveness of Kron-Azril-Ungol.
[ ] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (specify which, eg: Verenans, Myrmidians, Sigmarites)
Difficulty will vary heavily depending on the Cult in question, but can allow access to rare tomes and esoteric subjects.
[ ] Set up a no-questions-asked bounty system for books within the Cult of Ranald
Results will be unreliable and depending on what is sought may result in blowback, but this may allow you to acquire books that would otherwise be entirely inaccessible.
And there doesn't seem to be an obvious option for setting up exchanges with a Karak. Would this fall under "Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library," or do dwarfholds have culturally-mediated exchange agreements that wouldn't fall under a Library action?
 
...Hunh.

So, I took a quick look at our Kron-Azril-Ungol options:

And there doesn't seem to be an obvious option for setting up exchanges with a Karak. Would this fall under "Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library," or do dwarfholds have culturally-mediated exchange agreements that wouldn't fall under a Library action?

It would fall under 'remind me next time we get to library options and I'll add it'. Until this specific topic came up I hadn't foreseen any particular demand for that kind of thing that couldn't be covered by 'another library'.
 
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Ok in all seriousness I wonder now if they would be willingly to tell Mathilde other insights into the warp they know since they spent over a century in the warp.
I mean…
Karak Vlag (Transcendent): They know irrefutably that you risked your soul to tear theirs from the grasp of Hell.
Something tells me they would probably be cool with it. Not that I'm suggesting we spend the boon, its flavor text is just really pertinent here.
 
So, due to the immense and intense triumph of the fabled Project Tongs, I present its spiritual successors:

1) Project not-Water
Project Tongs seems dead in the water because the imperial articles of magic forbid the intentional creation of Dhar and would brand Mathilde as heretic and traitor if she even tried.

However, we've noticed that the Waystones always drain Winds in pairs at the very least. Thus, we theorize the existence of stable multi-Wind patterns that we will call . . . not-Elements.

Rather than attempting manipulation which we know would result in Dhar, we will attempt to create these intermediate structures and if some Dhar coincidentally sneaks in, well, who could have possibly guessed?

For Hysh And Ulgu, which we have seen manifested as ice and fog respectively, we will call their stable combination . . . not-Water.

While we could technically simply observe the natural turbulence of a boundary between two closely positioned objects made of Hysh and Ulgu conductive materials, that is something that, realistically, only boring boringmancers would do.

Therefore, we look for inspiration among the brilliant work of uncle Nagash. Now, I know what you're thinking, is this a long-winded and thinly-veiled necromancy joke? You'll be very surprised to hear that the answer is no!

Among the lessons of uncle Fred's diary, we have seen a way to weave the most erratic Wind into stable patterns. However, as we have already explained to Egrimm in a similar circumstance, if uncle Nagash wanted to mouth off to his homies for some sweet autodidact rep, he coulda had his minecraft crew take it easy with the fukken pyramids. Some obscure sources even claim that he was taught by shipwrecked Dark Elves who presumably did not start from zero either.

We therefore further theorize that his method of weaving Dhar into a stable construct originally comes from simplifying a High Magic method to weave all eight regular Winds together. As such, Mathilde would attempt to extrapolate how to weave this pattern with alternating Winds, hoping that this would keep them locked together.

Obviously, Mathilde cannot wield Hysh herself and attempting to raw dog it with a mate would probably see them both corrupted, so we will attempt a work-around. Rather than weaving it from magic itself, we will replicate the pattern physically with strands of Ulgu and Hysh conductive materials. We will then drip some AV onto it, which will hopefully filter out all the not-Fire, not-Earth and not-Wind, leaving us free to observe the trapped not-Water before it dissipates.

2) Project Elementally, Dear Watson

Mathilde once commented that natural water is a medium for Hysh and Ulgu and Ghyran. However, only the Jade College has spells that interact with natural water. Mathilde would observe how these spells interact with the other Winds naturally present in regular water and, given her experience with manipulating magical fog and even incorporating tidal principles into it, attempt to recreate these spells with Ulgu, then possibly derive further conclusions from comparing them with the original. If water itself proves too challenging, she could start from manipulating mundane fog or transitions between different states of matter and see how far she goes from there.

3) Project Ulgu-tunneling

Mathilde saw an Eshin sorcerer crush ambient Winds into Dhar using Ulgu. Maybe the problem was that we chose the wrong direction to start. Rather than manupilating one Wind using Ulgu, we should have tried to manipulate all the Winds.

The obvious question, my friends, is how to do that.

Here's where we get really clever. As anyone hanging around gyrocopters for any decent amount of time with long hair can attest, there are replicable patterns to the movement of mundane wind. We will attempt to find out whether these patterns might apply to magical Winds as well.

Mathilde will call on her experience with static Ulgu constructs and Ulgu tools to manifest a tunnel of Ulgu with a propeller inside and then go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. If eigth of these are linked in succession, we could facilitate a flow similar to OUCH, hey stop that, yes, yes, I'll see myself out, stop throwing things . . .
 
Barak Varr to Erengrad is about five thousand miles by sea, which is something like Helsinki to Rome or London to Miami. And Erengrad has a fairly significant Elven presence. So Barak Varr is probably not the answer here. Considering how long ago the Fire Spire fell and how much the Colleges have come to prominence since then, you'd need some theoretical Dwarven Karak very close to Praag who would have had some need to preserve every insight into the nature of magic they could get for the past two centuries and no opportunity to trade those books away to the Colleges...
saving that thought.
 
Matilda can contribute to the interaction of dwarf engineers and robot magicians with the Luminaries of Hish. Both groups will have something to take out of cooperation. Lasers and solar energy are used in metallurgy and chemical industry.
 
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So, due to the immense and intense triumph of the fabled Project Tongs, I present its spiritual successors:

1) Project not-Water
Project Tongs seems dead in the water because the imperial articles of magic forbid the intentional creation of Dhar and would brand Mathilde as heretic and traitor if she even tried.

However, we've noticed that the Waystones always drain Winds in pairs at the very least. Thus, we theorize the existence of stable multi-Wind patterns that we will call . . . not-Elements.

Rather than attempting manipulation which we know would result in Dhar, we will attempt to create these intermediate structures and if some Dhar coincidentally sneaks in, well, who could have possibly guessed?

For Hysh And Ulgu, which we have seen manifested as ice and fog respectively, we will call their stable combination . . . not-Water.

While we could technically simply observe the natural turbulence of a boundary between two closely positioned objects made of Hysh and Ulgu conductive materials, that is something that, realistically, only boring boringmancers would do.

Therefore, we look for inspiration among the brilliant work of uncle Nagash. Now, I know what you're thinking, is this a long-winded and thinly-veiled necromancy joke? You'll be very surprised to hear that the answer is no!

Among the lessons of uncle Fred's diary, we have seen a way to weave the most erratic Wind into stable patterns. However, as we have already explained to Egrimm in a similar circumstance, if uncle Nagash wanted to mouth off to his homies for some sweet autodidact rep, he coulda had his minecraft crew take it easy with the fukken pyramids. Some obscure sources even claim that he was taught by shipwrecked Dark Elves who presumably did not start from zero either.

We therefore further theorize that his method of weaving Dhar into a stable construct originally comes from simplifying a High Magic method to weave all eight regular Winds together. As such, Mathilde would attempt to extrapolate how to weave this pattern with alternating Winds, hoping that this would keep them locked together.

Obviously, Mathilde cannot wield Hysh herself and attempting to raw dog it with a mate would probably see them both corrupted, so we will attempt a work-around. Rather than weaving it from magic itself, we will replicate the pattern physically with strands of Ulgu and Hysh conductive materials. We will then drip some AV onto it, which will hopefully filter out all the not-Fire, not-Earth and not-Wind, leaving us free to observe the trapped not-Water before it dissipates.

2) Project Elementally, Dear Watson
Mathilde once commented that natural water is a medium for Hysh and Ulgu and Ghyran. However, only the Jade College has spells that interact with natural water. Mathilde would observe how these spells interact with the other Winds naturally present in regular water and, given her experience with manipulating magical fog and even incorporating tidal principles into it, attempt to recreate these spells with Ulgu, then possibly derive further conclusions from comparing them with the original. If water itself proves too challenging, she could start from manipulating mundane fog or transitions between different states of matter and see how far she goes from there.

3) Project Ulgu-tunneling
Mathilde saw an Eshin sorcerer crush ambient Winds into Dhar using Ulgu. Maybe the problem was that we chose the wrong direction to start. Rather than manupilating one Wind using Ulgu, we should have tried to manipulate all the Winds.

The obvious question, my friends, is how to do that.

Here's where we get really clever. As anyone hanging around gyrocopters for any decent amount of time with long hair can attest, there are replicable patterns to the movement of mundane wind. We will attempt to find out whether these patterns might apply to magical Winds as well.

Mathilde will call on her experience with static Ulgu constructs and Ulgu tools to manifest a tunnel of Ulgu with a propeller inside and then go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. If eigth of these are linked in succession, we could facilitate a flow similar to OUCH, hey stop that, yes, yes, I'll see myself out, stop throwing things . . .

What if we did something that's actually possible, instead? :thonk:
 
So, due to the immense and intense triumph of the fabled Project Tongs, I present its spiritual successors:

1) Project not-Water
Project Tongs seems dead in the water because the imperial articles of magic forbid the intentional creation of Dhar and would brand Mathilde as heretic and traitor if she even tried.

However, we've noticed that the Waystones always drain Winds in pairs at the very least. Thus, we theorize the existence of stable multi-Wind patterns that we will call . . . not-Elements.

Rather than attempting manipulation which we know would result in Dhar, we will attempt to create these intermediate structures and if some Dhar coincidentally sneaks in, well, who could have possibly guessed?

For Hysh And Ulgu, which we have seen manifested as ice and fog respectively, we will call their stable combination . . . not-Water.

While we could technically simply observe the natural turbulence of a boundary between two closely positioned objects made of Hysh and Ulgu conductive materials, that is something that, realistically, only boring boringmancers would do.

Therefore, we look for inspiration among the brilliant work of uncle Nagash. Now, I know what you're thinking, is this a long-winded and thinly-veiled necromancy joke? You'll be very surprised to hear that the answer is no!

Among the lessons of uncle Fred's diary, we have seen a way to weave the most erratic Wind into stable patterns. However, as we have already explained to Egrimm in a similar circumstance, if uncle Nagash wanted to mouth off to his homies for some sweet autodidact rep, he coulda had his minecraft crew take it easy with the fukken pyramids. Some obscure sources even claim that he was taught by shipwrecked Dark Elves who presumably did not start from zero either.

We therefore further theorize that his method of weaving Dhar into a stable construct originally comes from simplifying a High Magic method to weave all eight regular Winds together. As such, Mathilde would attempt to extrapolate how to weave this pattern with alternating Winds, hoping that this would keep them locked together.

Obviously, Mathilde cannot wield Hysh herself and attempting to raw dog it with a mate would probably see them both corrupted, so we will attempt a work-around. Rather than weaving it from magic itself, we will replicate the pattern physically with strands of Ulgu and Hysh conductive materials. We will then drip some AV onto it, which will hopefully filter out all the not-Fire, not-Earth and not-Wind, leaving us free to observe the trapped not-Water before it dissipates.

2) Project Elementally, Dear Watson
Mathilde once commented that natural water is a medium for Hysh and Ulgu and Ghyran. However, only the Jade College has spells that interact with natural water. Mathilde would observe how these spells interact with the other Winds naturally present in regular water and, given her experience with manipulating magical fog and even incorporating tidal principles into it, attempt to recreate these spells with Ulgu, then possibly derive further conclusions from comparing them with the original. If water itself proves too challenging, she could start from manipulating mundane fog or transitions between different states of matter and see how far she goes from there.

3) Project Ulgu-tunneling
Mathilde saw an Eshin sorcerer crush ambient Winds into Dhar using Ulgu. Maybe the problem was that we chose the wrong direction to start. Rather than manupilating one Wind using Ulgu, we should have tried to manipulate all the Winds.

The obvious question, my friends, is how to do that.

Here's where we get really clever. As anyone hanging around gyrocopters for any decent amount of time with long hair can attest, there are replicable patterns to the movement of mundane wind. We will attempt to find out whether these patterns might apply to magical Winds as well.

Mathilde will call on her experience with static Ulgu constructs and Ulgu tools to manifest a tunnel of Ulgu with a propeller inside and then go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. If eigth of these are linked in succession, we could facilitate a flow similar to OUCH, hey stop that, yes, yes, I'll see myself out, stop throwing things . . .

This is proposing blue sky research into things we have no reason to assume will work. Think about it in the cold hard light of day, do we have any IC indication to assume any of this will work:
  1. This is based on the I think faulty assumption that the First Secret was a variation on how elves weave high magic rather than the way in which priests use divine magic ('the patience of a priest') and also on the notion that the dark elves would need some sort of tool we would understand in order to stabilize Dhar. The solution might far more easily be 'Be an elf, spend a century or so teaching Dhar to heel'
  2. While the physical substance of water can be a medium for multiple winds depending on its state we have never once seen it channel multiple winds at the same time. Depending on what wizard is holding it a grounding god can channel multiple winds, that does not mean we should try to found a grounding rod based magical tradition
  3. I am not even sure what to say about this one... is there any particular reason you assume the stuff of the Aethyr would behave in a predictable way akin to physical air? I mean we have seen that Ulgu has whims,we can thus infer so do the others
Lastly think about the value of a Mathilde AP, like what we can physically do with the time already and consider if any of the above show enough promise ti take that time.
 
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…Uh, guys? I'm pretty sure all those suggestions were jokes. Like, it starts by talking about Tongs as a triumph, which… should be indication enough. The irreverent tone and ending especially makes it obvious these shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
The only success of the tongs is that it did something i thought impossible and made me hate a word.

I don't think i have ever been so easily enraged by the mere mention of something. If i never see it again it would still be too soon.
 
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