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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
I know many people, including myself, that have a bit of an issue of that. I've been guilty of using "hey guys" or similar stuff, but if somebody called me "My Guy" I'd be irritated for sure.
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Guys is weird, every trans woman I know and have discussed it with (including me) agrees that in theory it's gender neutral but also feels horrible when it's used to refer to them.
 
Codex said:
@Boney Since you're here, I wanted to ask a question that's been haunting me for way too long. Back during the Tarn date, Mathilde said this to answer Panoramia's question:

It's one of the sweetest moments in the quest and I frequently come back to it to sigh of happiness. It's very pleasant.

Now, I want to ask what Panoramia's answer would be if the roles were reversed. What does Panoramia like about Mathilde? The spectre of curiousity has been hanging around me for too long. I've been feeling strangely sappy lately.
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Mathilde got her curiosity by completely defying the stereotypes of the Grey Order while still very much serving the Grey Order, and then her attention by remaining a good person despite how very easy it would be for her to not be. Mathilde could be cantankerous and selfish and people would grant her leeway due to her deeds, but Mathilde (as informed by the thread's choices) pours herself into all sorts of projects to help the people around her even when there's nothing to be gained.

To a certain extent, Panoramia is able to see through Mathilde's facades. Not just her little jokes and puns, but also to catch a glimpse of the sheer amount of constantly moving gears that are a result of juggling Ulgu and loyalties and demands on her time. Panoramia has some understanding of how much work and effort it actually takes Mathilde to appear out of nowhere, make a problem disappear, drop a few smug and mysterious remarks and vanish back into the shadows. Where others only see the fruits of Mathilde's labours, Panoramia catches glimpses of the roots and leaves that were needed to nourish that fruit.
 
Jreengus said:
Guys is weird, every trans woman I know and have discussed it with (including me) agrees that in theory it's gender neutral but also feels horrible when it's used to refer to them.
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There's a lot of stuff like that where if you're referring to a Cis woman it might not matter (this is supposition, I am not a cis woman) because we agree that it's gender neutral, but when it's referring to a trans woman like myself it feels like the person is targeting my gender even though they're not. It's complicated.
 
Boney said:
Mathilde got her curiosity by completely defying the stereotypes of the Grey Order while still very much serving the Grey Order, and then her attention by remaining a good person despite how very easy it would be for her to not be. Mathilde could be cantankerous and selfish and people would grant her leeway due to her deeds, but Mathilde (as informed by the thread's choices) pours herself into all sorts of projects to help the people around her even when there's nothing to be gained.

To a certain extent, Panoramia is able to see through Mathilde's facades. Not just her little jokes and puns, but also to catch a glimpse of the sheer amount of constantly moving gears that are a result of juggling Ulgu and loyalties and demands on her time. Panoramia has some understanding of how much work and effort it actually takes Mathilde to appear out of nowhere, make a problem disappear, drop a few smug and mysterious remarks and vanish back into the shadows. Where others only see the fruits of Mathilde's labours, Panoramia catches glimpses of the roots and leaves that were needed to nourish that fruit.
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Mathilde really is an interesting study case from the outside. Such divides loyalties, and yet she still backs each and every one as hard as possible. Combine it with her successes from doing so…
 
Boney said:
Mathilde got her curiosity by completely defying the stereotypes of the Grey Order while still very much serving the Grey Order, and then her attention by remaining a good person despite how very easy it would be for her to not be. Mathilde could be cantankerous and selfish and people would grant her leeway due to her deeds, but Mathilde (as informed by the thread's choices) pours herself into all sorts of projects to help the people around her even when there's nothing to be gained.

To a certain extent, Panoramia is able to see through Mathilde's facades. Not just her little jokes and puns, but also to catch a glimpse of the sheer amount of constantly moving gears that are a result of juggling Ulgu and loyalties and demands on her time. Panoramia has some understanding of how much work and effort it actually takes Mathilde to appear out of nowhere, make a problem disappear, drop a few smug and mysterious remarks and vanish back into the shadows. Where others only see the fruits of Mathilde's labours, Panoramia catches glimpses of the roots and leaves that were needed to nourish that fruit.
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I think it's sweet that what Panoramia likes most about Mathilde could probably be summarised as "She's nice". So simple, yet so effective.
 
Boney said:
Mathilde got her curiosity by completely defying the stereotypes of the Grey Order while still very much serving the Grey Order, and then her attention by remaining a good person despite how very easy it would be for her to not be. Mathilde could be cantankerous and selfish and people would grant her leeway due to her deeds, but Mathilde (as informed by the thread's choices) pours herself into all sorts of projects to help the people around her even when there's nothing to be gained.

To a certain extent, Panoramia is able to see through Mathilde's facades. Not just her little jokes and puns, but also to catch a glimpse of the sheer amount of constantly moving gears that are a result of juggling Ulgu and loyalties and demands on her time. Panoramia has some understanding of how much work and effort it actually takes Mathilde to appear out of nowhere, make a problem disappear, drop a few smug and mysterious remarks and vanish back into the shadows. Where others only see the fruits of Mathilde's labours, Panoramia catches glimpses of the roots and leaves that were needed to nourish that fruit.
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I'm kinda reminded of Mathlide's house motto "Unseen, But Not Unfelt". A large part of Grey Wizarding is making sure that everything and everyone is in the right place at the right time, but instead of manipulating things from the shadows she brute forces things into place (like her using Rite of Way on the Kreml guard, or taking command of the army at Drakenhof). However she still throws up that illusion of effortless manipulation in her wake.

Pan's job is both really hard and really important. It's also really straightforward—turn barren wasteland into a fertile breadbasket. That's something where she can dedicate herself to just that one task day in day out, and make noticeable improvements all the time. But Mathilde has to be the thumb that tips the scales at every pivot, every engagement, every conflict across several different cultures. The people of the Empire rest easy, knowing that if the horrors that assail them become too much to bare, Mathilde will deal with it. Because that's the type of person she's become.

I guess it makes sense for Pan to see through all of that, to see how much weight Mathilde has to add to make a difference each time she's needed—and how much that costs her each time.

And yet despite all that, Mathilde never begrudges others for needing her, she never looks down on others. She just sees people who needs help, and decides that she'll be the one to provide it. After all, why not her? She's here, and she has the power to do so.

I think that's what kindness is, in a way—to see someone who needs help, and to be the first to move to do so.
 
Boney said:
It's a question you'd considered yourself. "You're fun," you say. "You're fun, you keep up, you're not intimidated, and you're a good person. And it's easy and pleasant to spend time with you."
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I'm twenty-five years old and I have been waiting the majority of my whole life to finally ask about this. When an author does this, do they intend the character to say the same thing twice or are they only saying it once?
 
Codex said:
I think it's sweet that what Panoramia likes most about Mathilde could probably be summarised as "She's nice". So simple, yet so effective.
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To be fair It's rather an achievement, doing the things she does and being what she is. Spymaster, thief, assassin, warrior, business woman, diplomat… very little of Mathilde's life requires kindness, and much in fact discourages it. Yet she fights at every step to retain as much as is humanly possible, given her circumstances.
Andres said:
I'm twenty-five years old and I have been waiting the majority of my whole life to finally ask about this. When an author does this, do they intend the character to say the same thing twice or are they only saying it once?
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Speaking as one, it can be either or. Sometimes it's a typo, sometimes you forget you said it already in the midst of whatever thought process you use while writing, and sometimes the character is, in fact, using repetition either for similar reasons—such as being distracted—or to reinforce and emphasize a message.

Here, it definitely seems to be purposeful. Pan being fun is the main draw, the rest is an expansion on how and why. That's my interpretation, at least.
 
It should also be noted that being a good person who works for the benefit of others has also benefited Mathilde, the peasant girl of yesterday can now converse with high nobles as an equal and with kings and emperors as one but a single rung removed, she is rich beyond the wildest dreams of her youth. She lives in fine linens (occasionally grumbling at the lack of spider silks) and she is one of the movers and shakers of the world. Panoramia for all her good works is (partly by her own choice) not part of that rarefied circle, she does not get to speak up in matters of peace and war and she does not have a hand in the economies of three realms. Mathilde wields power in the service of the Empire and the Karaz Ankor, but in all cases it is also in the service of her vision of those realms, in that she is I suspect very much a Grey Wizard Lord.
 
On the subject of Eike- let's see what her feelings on the subject of violence are first, before making any decisions?

She might hew strongly to Shallyan pacifism, she might not. I don't think we have any firm indication either way.
 
Jreengus said:
Guys is weird, every trans woman I know and have discussed it with (including me) agrees that in theory it's gender neutral but also feels horrible when it's used to refer to them.
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Personally, I feel like the big difference comes from whether it is used as an address in the singular, or in the plural. In the plural I can't say I feel any worse about "guys" than say "folks"
 
Codex said:
There's a lot of stuff like that where if you're referring to a Cis woman it might not matter (this is supposition, I am not a cis woman) because we agree that it's gender neutral, but when it's referring to a trans woman like myself it feels like the person is targeting my gender even though they're not. It's complicated.
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Evwn in that case it's not gender neutral, but an example of the Male default in the english language.
 
I remember when the thread was vehemently against the idea of an Apprentice. How things have changed that a good portion of the thread now treats Eike being Mathilde's apprentice as essentially a foregone conclusion. I guess the missing factor was being invested in the prospective apprentice before they're presented as an option.
 
Codex said:
I remember when the thread was vehemently against the idea of an Apprentice. How things have changed that a good portion of the thread now treats Eike being Mathilde's apprentice as essentially a foregone conclusion. I guess the missing factor was being invested in the prospective apprentice before they're presented as an option.
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It also helped that it really was the best option for all involved. With that and the random roll Eike was essentially forced on us by the circumstances.
 
Personally I'm not really interested in an apprentice. Sure Eike would be cute and it would be nice, but I would find it more interesting to do any of the many other things there is out there.
 
K von Carstein said:
Personally I'm not really interested in an apprentice. Sure Eike would be cute and it would be nice, but I would find it more interesting to do any of the many other things there is out there.
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I'm certain there are people out there who don't want an apprentice period, and they still exist, but the overwhelming majority, at least the vocal ones, seem to align with wanting Eike as an apprentice. Considering how many people voted for Grey Order for her, I'm pretty sure many of them had her apprenticeship in mind.
 
Codex said:
I remember when the thread was vehemently against the idea of an Apprentice. How things have changed that a good portion of the thread now treats Eike being Mathilde's apprentice as essentially a foregone conclusion. I guess the missing factor was being invested in the prospective apprentice before they're presented as an option.
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I don't really want an apprentice even if its Eike for action reasons, but i would feel kinda shit about not taking her on for emotional reasons. Alas.
 
There's also the impulse to give wizard dad a grand apprentice.
Taking an apprentice is the system that we are part of working as intended.
Knowledge transfer to future generations.
 
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