Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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- Pronouns
- He
[X] Grief
[X] Trauma
[] Plead the Fifth
You introduced the worship of Ranald as a first step towards making the entire Wurtbad Watch into your Apprentices.
I like how this can refer to the 5th Article for Starke, and the 5th Facet for us (since the way the Colleges do Apprentices kinda shakes out in a familial way). Wouldn't actually be a good idea though.
[X] Trauma
[] Plead the Fifth
You introduced the worship of Ranald as a first step towards making the entire Wurtbad Watch into your Apprentices.
I like how this can refer to the 5th Article for Starke, and the 5th Facet for us (since the way the Colleges do Apprentices kinda shakes out in a familial way). Wouldn't actually be a good idea though.
[ ] Grief
You acted rashly after the death of Abelhelm, a death that Sigmar could have prevented, and acted out against a largely Sigmarite institution under your control. While true and understandable, it does hint towards the extent of your rather complicated feelings towards your former liege, and you might not want those hints available for cross-referencing if the Underwear Incident ever comes to light.
OK so since this looks to be pulling ahead let's look at what the worst case scenario is, as far as we know. The underwear incident comes up and the assumption is made that Mathide and Van Hall were lovers. In that situation of Mathilde being early 20s and him being more than a decade her senior and a lot more worldly the natural assumption would be that he is using her and not the other way around, that he is trying to guarantee her loyalty to him by let's say... unconventional means. Now obviously the slander on Abel's memory would not be pleasant for Mathilde IC, but in practical and advancement terms 'was unwise in maters of the heart as a fresh journeywoman' is not much of an indictment.
Odds are you can say that about at least half the Colleges, not the 'slept with an elector count' part but that is for lack of access to one. I think the worst we can have to look forward from this is a really awkward conversation with Regimand that ends with a furiously blushing Mathilde going 'Nothing happened alright!'
You acted rashly after the death of Abelhelm, a death that Sigmar could have prevented, and acted out against a largely Sigmarite institution under your control. While true and understandable, it does hint towards the extent of your rather complicated feelings towards your former liege, and you might not want those hints available for cross-referencing if the Underwear Incident ever comes to light.
OK so since this looks to be pulling ahead let's look at what the worst case scenario is, as far as we know. The underwear incident comes up and the assumption is made that Mathide and Van Hall were lovers. In that situation of Mathilde being early 20s and him being more than a decade her senior and a lot more worldly the natural assumption would be that he is using her and not the other way around, that he is trying to guarantee her loyalty to him by let's say... unconventional means. Now obviously the slander on Abel's memory would not be pleasant for Mathilde IC, but in practical and advancement terms 'was unwise in maters of the heart as a fresh journeywoman' is not much of an indictment.
Odds are you can say that about at least half the Colleges, not the 'slept with an elector count' part but that is for lack of access to one. I think the worst we can have to look forward from this is a really awkward conversation with Regimand that ends with a furiously blushing Mathilde going 'Nothing happened alright!'
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13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
Considering the historical time periods the Empire draws on, it's really nothing special.
Eh... it is somewhat notable when you consider where the loyalty of a Grey Wizard is supposed to be. Mathilde was not some petty noble at court, she had a job as a member of what is effectively the secret police. There is a universe where the College could have asked her to spy on him, to sabotage certain actions or even to assassinate him.
Magnos III
(Unverified Planeswalker)
[X] Trauma
[X] Skaven
[X] Skaven
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We actually know his age now, his birth year is in the Dramatis Personae- 2432 IC.
The Underwear Incident occurred in 2472, so he was 40 at the time, Mathilde was 22.
I had missed that, thanks. The point stands even better. We are basically looking at the better part of two decades between them.
I don't think this worse case scenario is a very likely outcome and I don't worry too much about it, but I have to say that if it does happen I care less about Mathilde's reputation and more about Abel's. Abelhelm did not, in fact, use Mathilde in that manner, and it would be an insult to his memory to claim otherwise.
We would not be claiming his, we would be saying a very true thing about Mathilde's reaction to his death. To make her the custodian of others' potential misconceptions is rather unkind to her IMO.
I am curious though what would you consider the worst case scenario?
Sabotage or assassinate only if he was acting against the interests of the Empire as a whole. Greys are supposed to stay out of the political squabbling. And if he was doing something like that, others should have acted against him too, they're just less explicitly bound to it.
The spy is true, though it's not like Greys are the only ones spying on nobles.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
They would have had to have gotten in line, we were busy spying for the Lahmians.
Well yeah, but if he was acting against the empire he would have a grey wizard arguably compromised to his side which the College would not like as a matter of general principle.
Obviously we wouldn't be claiming this, but the whole point of this conversation with Starke is to manage other people's opinions. 'Other's potential misconceptions' is exactly the kind of thing we should consider when picking our response.
If we choose grief, pretty much this, I just don't think it's a very likely outcome.
To manage the college's opinion of Mathilde, we are through our actions ad words responsible for how they see her. The part I think is unfair is to get her to manage their reactions to things that are only tangentially related to her like 'Abel's reputation if X event comes out'. We have no control over any part of that and the words here choosing grief are factually true. I would rather not carry the reputation of everyone Mathilde ever interacted with on our backs... in light of second order consequences.
That's your prerogative, but I do care about potential effects on Abel's reputation, and Mathilde as I understand her character would care too.
I care about it too, I just do not think it is realistic to manage it, or any sort of reaction at twice removed.
This whole conversation started because you laid out a certain possible outcome and discussed its implications. In that discussion, you considered only the effects of that scenario on Mathilde's reputation. I just felt the need to also add the effects on Abelhelm's reputation. It's fair to not care about that, or to think it's not our responsibility, but I don't think it's some complicated second order effect: if it is believed two people had a relationship, the immediate people implicated are those two people.
The reason I do not think we can be the keeper of his reputation is because we simply do not know who might have a stake in muddying it and why. We also do not have a legitimate claim on his legacy to defend it, that is his daughter's prerogative. For all we know there is currently a concerted campaign to post humorously ruin his reputation with rumors of the underwear incident alone and it does not matter what we pick here, or maybe us picking here will tip the whole cart over into him being smeared where he otherwise would not have been. Or maybe no one will give a damn one way or another.
When it comes to Mathilde's reputation we can manage it because we have leverage and we know or at least can find the people with a stake in pushing things one way or another. When it comes to Van Hall we simply do not.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Grief
[X] Trauma
[X] Trauma
