Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Angelform]

No, peaceful trade relations with the Druchii is something the Warden of Storm is pushing for, not something they already have.

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Wonder where they got the idea that this is possible? To the best of my knowledge the Druchii are openly and enthusiastically hostile to everyone. And famous for backstabbing above all else.

No. It's a finite building.

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Humph. To think the Great Houses of Laurelorn aren't even built to the standards of the Colleges Of Magic. Constrained by mere physical dimensions? Ha!
/sarcasm

Seriously though, this means we are very unlikely to get any meaningful benefit out of throwing more gold at it. At least until we have studied the culture.

[] Plan Redshirt v2

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Problem 1) Uses an odd number of WEB-MAT actions, thus is inefficient.
Problem 2) Wastes 300 gold.

 

[dinomannitro6]

What are the arcane marks of the wind of light?
Also is there a better place for me to ask?

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Arcane Marks

"There is a fine line between the arcane marks left on the Magisters and the corruptions that manifest in the mind and flesh of witches and warlocks. For Magisters, the arcane marks are inevitable, by-products of working with the Winds of Magic. But, for those who dabble in Dark Magic, the...

warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

the marks for all 8 winds are listed here

 

[Ericwinter]

I feel I should point out that Mathilde's bathroom is basically just "hot and cold running water on demand with a shower nozzle option". Like, it's super fancy for the tech era she's in, but the only hard thing to replicate from her list with my bathroom right now would be a sauna, and that's just because I don't know if my shower can produce enough steam to be a sauna.

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I've certainly had a few that could seem like it. And I'm... lower middle class, I think? Not really sure where the divide is, and while not poor but do ride the line sometimes.

 

[Boney]

Also is there a better place for me to ask?

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I think there's a thread for general discussion of the setting somewhere but it's not very active, it seems on SV that discussion mostly takes place in the quest threads. I'm happy for general lore discussion to happen in this thread as long as it doesn't threaten to overwhelm discussion of the quest, or even then if it's been a while since an update and there's no outstanding matters.

This would need Cython's Approval of course, but here's one such plan-
Laurelorn has begun adopting Ulric as an acceptable Deity. Humanity has long venerated Ulric, and his greatest human champion Sigmar is who won Humanity the respect of the Dwarves. Those elves interested in the anthropology of Human Divinity could likely exchange letters with Cython, a Hysh Dragon of some age, and we could deliver such letters back and forth.
Cython long thought that Human Deities were simply alternate versions of Elven Deities, and that's likely the dominant assumption among all elves who do not study such things. Having found Ulric worthy of veneration though, it may be quite interesting for Laurelorn Elves to find out that humanity has many divinities who aren't Elven ones.

we show that we're a friend of a venerable Hysh Dragon through this, give no cards away, but give lots of information and scholarly buzz to whisper about. Even if Humans could never have found information that Elves could not, perhaps such venerable allies as Cython could have?

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If you want to take a swing at it, Cython would technically qualify as a 'non-Order magical tradition'.

 

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

I also don't think spending twice as much as the base "nice" level is really worth it when 300gc will suffice to furnish it as amazingly as what we've got back home*, but "I rolled a die and it landed on Ranald's holy number" is absolutely the sort of decision-making heuristic Mathilde would apply, so sure, why the hell not.

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On the one hand, I've been very vocal about not spending more than 300gc on furnishings, but on the other hand I am incredibly superstitious IRL and am literally unable to defy the dice, so I guess we're doing the mega expensive option.

I am so, so mad right now. Fucking Gambler bullshit.

[] Plan Redshirt v2

 

[Fayhem]

I've seen some draft plans I like, but because I'm me and I have a sickness I wanted to try building my own. Honestly this is in large part just to help me understand my own priorities better by working them all out, but I figured I'd still put it out there to see if people respond to it.

[] Plan Set Up, Build Knowledge, and Fading Papers
-[ ] MAX: Go through every library of the Colleges you can access for any scrap of information about Waystones. (NEW)
-[ ] JOHANN: Have Johann spend time getting to know Kadoh, who has expressed an interest in meeting the 'fist metal-Mage'.
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which. Must be taken with a 'dictate' action. (free WEB-MAT AP)
--[ ] Observations of Karag Dum and its unusual guardian (FADING)
--[ ] Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes (FADING)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Karak's Runesmiths into the Waystone Project (specify which): Karak Azul
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can
-[ ] Dictate papers: select which two, must be taken with Max's 'receive dictation'.
-[ ] OVERWORK: Furnish the living spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 100gc for adequate, 200gc for comfortable, 300gc+ for nice (no cap on how much can be spent, because Elves)): 400 gc
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands (FADING)
-[ ] EIC: Have a blackpowder factory built in Wurtbad.

Reasoning:

I'm raring to get this project on the road, hence four actions directly tied to doing just that.

I want to know everything we can find out about Waystones on our own before we start recruiting people who know the magical side of Waystones (as opposed to the runic side). Hence the first Max action and scrutinizing a Waystone ourselves. Likewise, hence not trying to recruit anyone from Laurelorn or any Order yet.

I want Johann to learn Eltharin, but IIRC Boney has hinted that he could potentially learn that via punch-osmosis as broing out with his new elf pal could motivate him to just learn it himself with a personal action. Which could also get him the local dialect, rather than the Ulthuan dialect the Colleges teach. Also, we hired a Punch Priest to train Johann a while ago, and the prospect of him getting to go "while you played festival games, I studied the fist" is just too hilarious for me to pass up. It also won't hurt anything for a diplomatically savvy member of WEB-MAT to form a plausible personal bond with someone who is involved with and knowledgeable about local politics/culture. That could potentially really pay dividends for us when it comes time to ground ourselves in local culture and start recruiting locally IMO.

We have three Fading papers pertaining to magical observations from the Karag Dum expedition, and I think it makes sense to knock them all out before the malus shows up (I put the ones that IMO are most important with Max to make sure we get his Amanuensis bonus). I also think that makes better use of the free WEB-MAT AP than deciding what to have Egrimm do before he even shows up. Further, when we try to recruit Orders or elves next turn, having a number of splashy recent publications should help remind everybody why we were considered magically knowledgeable and insightful enough to head this project in the first place. And who knows, maybe CF could be directly relevant to recruiting Orders somehow? Not sure if Boney's said anything re: that concept.

We really, REALLY want the runesmiths on board with this, and since we know and are friendly with Karak Azul's King AND it has Thorek it's probably our best bet (Kragg is great and all, but he's also markedly less willing to experiment to recover ancient knowledge and anyway he's under Karaz-a-Karak for recruitment purposes which still has strained relations with K8P). Hence trying to bring them on soonest, and putting the Gambler on it.

Lastly, I want nice living spaces because having nice things is nice, and I want to spend 400gc because 4 is Ranald's sacred number but it's less of an overshoot (IMO) than 600. Mathilde has never really projected as addicted to luxuries to me, and spending literally twice the threshold for "nice" on furnishing living quarters just feels too excessive to me y'know?

 

[kingreaper]

Cython long thought that Human Deities were simply alternate versions of Elven Deities, and that's likely the dominant assumption among all elves who do not study such things. Having found Ulric worthy of veneration though, it may be quite interesting for Laurelorn Elves to find out that humanity has many divinities who aren't Elven ones.

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Is Cython actually convinced of that? I know Deathfang believes certain human gods aren't elven gods, but I only remember Cython establishing that belief for dwarven and halfling gods - and IIRC considering that it might be connected to the fact they can't do magic.

 

[Ericwinter]

If you want to take a swing at it, Cython would technically qualify as a 'non-Order magical tradition'.

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...Well there's a decent argument for opulence at least.

 

[Mopman43]

I forget, has Cython commented at all on Sigmar's divinity?

A person becoming a god has got to at least slightly interest them, no?

 

[JowKeen]

If you want to take a swing at it, Cython would technically qualify as a 'non-Order magical tradition'.

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so asking if Cython would want to exchange any letters with Laurelorn Anthropologists is recruiting them for WEB-MAT ? I was just thinking they might be interested in conversing with an Elf about the differences between Elven and Human deities as well as divinity in general. If they're not then that's okay, I wouldn't want to recruit Cython just for something so small

EDIT: or maybe recruiting Cython for such a thing would be easier than recruiting them for non-Divinity work? Hmm. I do think Cython would find the Rainbow Falls interesting. Hmm.

 

[picklepikkl]

[] Plan Set Up, Build Knowledge, and Fading Papers
-[ ] MAX: Go through every library of the Colleges you can access for any scrap of information about Waystones. (NEW)
-[ ] JOHANN: Have Johann spend time getting to know Kadoh, who has expressed an interest in meeting the 'fist metal-Mage'.
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which. Must be taken with a 'dictate' action. (free WEB-MAT AP)
--[ ] Observations of Karag Dum and its unusual guardian (FADING)
--[ ] Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes (FADING)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Karak's Runesmiths into the Waystone Project (specify which): Karak Azul
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can
-[ ] OVERWORK: Furnish the living spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 100gc for adequate, 200gc for comfortable, 300gc+ for nice (no cap on how much can be spent, because Elves)): 400 gc
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands (FADING)
-[ ] EIC: Have a blackpowder factory built in Wurtbad.

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...hunh. Are we allowed to have two Max actions? We weren't before, but that was with the old system. It doesn't say we can't, but maybe that's an oversight. You also need to specify that you're including a dictate action (you have the right number of personal AP -- six -- but you should specify it in the plan for completeness' sake).

Anyway, I'm on-record as opposing "go through every library" until we've got at least the Jades on board, but this is a neat idea.

 

[NuclearConsensus]

Doesn't Cython hate elves? I don't think bringing them into the middle of an elf city that we want to like us is a good idea.

 

[Boney]

I forget, has Cython commented at all on Sigmar's divinity?

A person becoming a god has got to at least slightly interest them, no?

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They've never been north of Tilea, and if Mathilde had to guess, she'd say they'd likely assume Him to be Asuryan, since He's a God of Empire with warfare aspects.

so asking if Cython would want to exchange any letters with Laurelorn Anthropologists is recruiting them for WEB-MAT ? I was just thinking they might be interested in conversing with an Elf about the differences between Elven and Human deities as well as divinity in general. If they're not then that's okay, I wouldn't want to recruit Cython just for something so small

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If you're able to snare Cython's interest in Laurelorn, it would be a tragic waste not to use that as an excuse to make them technically a part of either WEB-MAT or the Waystone Project. The bragging rights alone would be enormous.

Doesn't Cython hate elves? I don't think bringing them into the middle of an elf city that we want to like us is a good idea.

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Cython actively attacks Druchii when given the opportunity, but is just kind of sneering at Asur.

 

[ChronOblivion]

Instructions unclear, literally threw Johann at Kadoh, they're having a meet-cute right now.

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I mean, i think Kadoh would be overjoyed by the surprise attack.

 

[Mopman43]

Doesn't Cython hate elves? I don't think bringing them into the middle of an elf city that we want to like us is a good idea.

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Cython's first meeting with Mathilde had them remarking that Mathilde was fortunate to not be one.

I think that's mostly from Drucchi forcing them out of Naggaroth/the Asur (and I guess Asrai too) putting dragons into what Cython sees as a subservient role (as well as the whole philisophical dispute between Wind Dragons and non-Wind Dragons).

But I don't think the Eonir have any dragons, so they might get a pass?

 

[Sparsebeard]

I'm all for going to Karak Azul for Runesmith eventually, but I'm afraid that not trying Karak-a-Karak first might be a bit of a faux pas, seeing the importance dwarves put on seniority...

Plus, I'd really like to see where the High King stands on the issue and give him the chance to contribute and thus lessen his sins in Belegar's view.

Not sure if it's a good idea though as a refusal would be taken badly by both Mathilde and Belegar. But I'd like to bet on Thorgrim wanting to make up for past mistakes.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

It's all by Mathilde's standards, so 'comfortable' would be equivalent to Magister quarters in the Colleges and 'nice' would be about equal to the furnishings of her home in Karag Nar. Mathilde doesn't have enough of a grasp of Laurelorn culture to know what their standards would be

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Right. In that case, 300gc is *absolutely* inadequate. No doubt in my mind.

I'll go with this.

[] Plan Redshirt v2

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Wonder where they got the idea that this is possible? To the best of my knowledge the Druchii are openly and enthusiastically hostile to everyone. And famous for backstabbing above all else

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In 'the future' (4e) it lowered attacks, didn't stop them completely, made it easier to counter and block.

As long as everyone is making Money and getting goods, the invasions are at the low burn. (And she can point to the norcan traders and the empire as an example of the same thing.

now the price was dark elf spy's sneaking in constantly and creating mischief and trying getting the youth and forest kin to rebel

but she thinks that, and irregular slaving raids, are easier to deal with then Regular slaving raids and outright invasion attempts

it's pragmatism, but it's also implied that it's the type of pragmatism that was about to blow up In her face come 'end times'.

edit: or more accurately, it's the type of pragmatism that works if everyone are logical actors: but it is assuming the 'hate boner' dark elf's and the guys that worship demon gods are going to always be pragmatic.

but that's 4e and in the future and with end times canon.

 

[Fayhem]

You also need to specify that you're including a dictate action (you have the right number of personal AP -- six -- but you should specify it in the plan for completeness' sake).

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Derp, fixing it now. And the WEB-MAT bonus AP description says you can spend the bonus with ANY member of WEB-MAT, which I am taking to mean any member unless Boney specifically refutes that, which I think is unlikely.

Right. In that case, 300gc is *absolutely* inadequate. No doubt in my mind.

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If your reasoning is that you want to furnishing it to a standard that will impress elves, we shouldn't be furnishing it at all yet. Because we don't know what elven standards actually are, because "standards" encompasses cultural tastes as well as "niceness." If we furnish it to a "nice" or "beyond nice" standard now, it will either way be to the standards of an Empire Wizard (influenced by Dwarves). If you want to impress Laurelorn elves, let's find out what they actually like first.

Edit:

Anyway, I'm on-record as opposing "go through every library" until we've got at least the Jades on board, but this is a neat idea.

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I meant to add, I'm operating on the thesis that doing a deep dive in any given Order's traditions will likely be its own thing, especially since the really juicy stuff may or may not be recorded in written form by the Order at all (the Ambers are almost certainly like that, but the Jades might have some stuff like that too).

So doing a broad survey of publicly (or, well, "publicly") available knowledge is something worth doing in its own right. Especially since knowing what is out there in "public" may give us a sense of where the gaps in that knowledge base are, which can guide us when trying to prod others to give up their secrets. Even if we bring the Jades in, that's no guarantee that they'll turn over all their chips and show us all their cards, to employ the analogy from this update. Being able to guess what they might have in their hand could be handy in getting them to actually show it IMO.

 

[veekie]

Still trying to catch up but...any thoughts on using the Prowler with a city survey action?
We might learn more that way regarding their motives and attitudes than standing out as obviously foreign

 

[Glau]

Ok, I do really like the research paper plan too, especially as a way to remind the colleges who we are before we start recruiting in ernest. I

 

[Mopman43]

The fading papers obviously take priority, but if we're in the need for College Favor, I just thought I'd bring up that Regimand suggested it'd be worthwhile to codify Mathilde's Shadow Knives Mastery that makes them melee weapons. We could probably get a fair bit of CF from it.

"Only if I have to. It's not exactly quiet." You concentrate for a moment and summon a dagger of solid Ulgu into your hands. "Mostly I'd be using this."

He squints at it thoughtfully. "Is that a Shadow Knives manifestation?"

"Sort of, I think. Or halfway between that and a shadow chisel."

"A what?"

You dismiss the dagger and reform the energies into a chisel. "Cantrip to replace enchantment paraphernalia. Learned it from who I think was one of Algard's Hands."

"I take it the chisel doesn't bypass armour like Shadow Knives?" You nod. "Pity. Let me know if you do manage to codify the dagger."

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[Ericwinter]

Random thought, but wasn't the Shadow Horse a College crested spell? Because it seems weird that the elf guy knew exactly how to cast one.

 

[Mopman43]

Random thought, but wasn't the Shadow Horse a College crested spell? Because it seems weird that the elf guy knew exactly how to cast one.

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I don't think we've ever gotten confirmation that it was.

 

[CornyBones]

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No, no. Like this:


"Hewwo. Do u have any dirty gossup to share wif a fewwo wizard?"