Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Jyn Ryvia]

So, something I want to do next turn or the turn after:

talk to the two runelords and one runesmith we know (possible bribing Thorek) about possible candidates for the Waystone project.

surely between the three of them, there is enough grapevine knowledge to be able to give us a few names of runesmiths that are 'adequate' or 'not completely worthless' that also won't slam the door on our faces for the idea of working with elves and human magic users.

 

[Tasoli]

while Windherder is something brand new that's considered outright impossible by the general theories of magic that the Colleges as a whole operate on.

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It is not considered impossible. -if it is I need a citation- Mathilde merely have talent to get enchanment from different winds close without getting dhar. I would not be surprised if there was others in the collage that could do it in the past.

Also nothing we can do will be new. Aside from putting enchantments in to smaller form. I suppose miniturisation is valuable but not something to get excited over it. Especially since people are in the look out for a problem to solve with windherder rather than other way around. Winherder is worthless until it actually solves something important. And getting a staff to a LM who is perfectly capable of getting one on his own does not qualify.

Meanwhile apparation solves our lack of direct damage Battle Magic. And adding it to Gray Collage spell book is useful. It is wothier cause as far as I am concerned.

 

[Mopman43]

talk to the two runelords and one runesmith we know (possible bribing Thorek) about possible candidates for the Waystone project.

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Wait, what Runesmith do we know?

Edit: Somehow, I keep forgetting Kazrik is a(n apprentice) Runesmith.

It is not considered impossible. -if it is I need a citation-

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Well, there's this in response to someone asking about Windherder stuff.

I don't think that it's unreasonable that you can't neatly chart a course in advance through something that is completely unprecedented and in fact considered impossible under Teclisean theory.

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[GrimTheMad]

It is not considered impossible. -if it is I need a citation- Mathilde merely have talent to get enchanment from different winds close without getting dhar. I would not be surprised if there was others in the collage that could do it in the past.

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Here:

I don't think that it's unreasonable that you can't neatly chart a course in advance through something that is completely unprecedented and in fact considered impossible under Teclisean theory. It's rather grating that for 2500 pages I've had people look at the price-tag of one AP to get a better idea of what it would allow and decide to complain that their lack of knowledge is a fault of implementation instead of a result of thread priorities.

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Also nothing we can do will be new. Aside from putting enchantments in to smaller form.

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One of the only things we know about Windherder is that we're able to combine effects from different winds into something new.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Wait, what Runesmith do we know?

Edit: Somehow, I keep forgetting Kazrik is a Runesmith.

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its very out of focus.

but funnily enough, in this one case he might actually know more than Kragg.

if only because knowing how good/how radical other runesmiths are required actually being willing to talk to other runesmiths.

 

[Briefvoice]

Maybe we should do a Windherder vote on "do something and find out what's possible" instead of worrying about specifying what the magical item should do, who we should recruit to help make it, etc.

"We don't care what it does, we don't care what wizards we work with, just we want to spend an AP making something with Windherder as a test case."

 

[Tasoli]

One of the only things we know about Windherder is that we're able to combine effects from different winds into something new.

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Right so it is something new but I am still annoyed that best the thread can think to do with it is make a questionable value gift to somebody we met twice.

If we are going to do it it should be awesome. Like enchanting something with Shadowsteed and Wings of Heaven so we get a flying horse to get around in style. Now that worthy for an AP.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Right so it is something new but I am still annoyed that best the thread can think to do with it is make a questionable value gift to somebody we met twice.

If we are going to do it it should be awesome. Like enchanting something with Shadowsteed and Wings of Heaven so we get a flying horse to get around in style. Now that worthy for an AP.

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the Dammerlichtreiter Thurible is cool, it will be useful to Striland, and it's a big middle finger to vampires (and tomb kings I guess)

if I could get people on board for it, I would in a heartbeat.

Guard of Steel/AP would be a better robe, and an awesome statement.

people chose to go for the mastery robes because it was 'better' (it wasn't)

the issue is not that we cant come up with awesome ideas, its that people don't want to step into the unknown/unsure when AP is on the table.

 

[DragonParadox]

the Dammerlichtreiter Thurible is cool, it will be useful to Striland, and it's a big middle finger to vampires (and tomb kings I guess)

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I am pretty sure an actual vampire would laugh and dispel it. Don't get me wrong, being able to ward off lesser undead is useful but I do not think it would even inconvenience one of the Lords of Night

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

I am pretty sure an actual vampire would laugh and dispel it. Don't get me wrong, being able to ward off lesser undead is useful but I do not think it would even inconvenience one of the Lords of Night

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not directly, but it would be fucking hard to bog down a greatsword company/spear wall with zombies with that thing as a standard.

or having your capital has a safe place from roaming zombies will help sure up your power base.

 

[Mopman43]

I am pretty sure an actual vampire would laugh and dispel it.

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Well, some of them. I'd imagine for ever Alkarahad, you get a Mihnea.

As Mathilde noted in one section:

Sure, there are Vampires that seem to linger forever, but those are just the ones that get famous - for each one of them, there's a thousand that think their new powers make them invincible, and many of them quickly learn that there are those that prey on the predators.

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Not every vampire is quite that capable.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Well, some of them. I'd imagine for ever Alkarahad, you get a Mihnea.

As Mathilde noted in one section:

Not every vampire is quite that capable.

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also, the middle finger is not the power of it.

its that they can't use it, that cant steal one and use it against humanity, only against each other.

that's the middle finger.

 

[DragonParadox]

Well, some of them. I'd imagine for ever Alkarahad, you get a Mihnea.

As Mathilde noted in one section:

Not every vampire is quite that capable.

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It does not take a named character vampire to cast dispel on a magic item, They are inherently weaker than the efforts of a caster.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

It does not take a named character vampire to cast dispel on a magic item, They are inherently weaker than the efforts of a caster.

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I think you assumed I meant vampires as in, the individuals.

I meant the faction, because it's a magic item that only works against them.

 

[Mopman43]

It does not take a named character vampire to cast dispel on a magic item, They are inherently weaker than the efforts of a caster.

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Yes, but Mihnea literally doesn't cast.

Mihnea in Mikalsdorf doesn't actually know any magic, he just uses rings and sceptres.

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For more famous examples, Konrad couldn't on tabletop, and Luthor Harkon was stripped of his ability to.

 

[DragonParadox]

I think you assumed I meant vampires as in, the individuals.

I meant the faction, because it's a magic item that only works against them.

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I actually agree with you. It would be of some use against the Vampire Counts as a faction

Yes, but Mihnea literally doesn't cast.

For more famous examples, Konrad couldn't on tabletop, and Luthor Harkon was stripped of his ability to.

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This however is less convincing. You have on that list the incompetent, the insane and the actively cursed. Besides Harkon who had a run in with Old One magic all vampires can cast and are represented in the RPG as being able to do basic magic, even the Blood dragons who are far from famed for it.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Yes, but Mihnea literally doesn't cast.

For more famous examples, Konrad couldn't on tabletop, and Luthor Harkon was stripped of his ability to.

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TT wise, most vampires at not casters.

the strong ones, its more common.

but Deep guard, dragon knights, black knights etc etc? not many of them.

... I guess magic education is not that common when paranoia and backstabbing is common...

 

[Altom]

TT wise, most vampires at not casters.

the strong ones, its more common.

but Deep guard, dragon knights, black knights etc etc? not many of them.

... I guess magic education is not that common when paranoia and backstabbing is common...

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A small nitpick, but Black Knights are not actually vampires at all. They are Wights, basically a mounted version of Grave Guard

 

[Copperscale]

The Thurible is most useful in blocking the spontaneously risen dead rather than an actual directed attack.

As a bonus, while any necromancer worth his salt could dispel it, they would have to get close.

For Vampires? That's not a problem. But normal necromancers are squishy, and having to get close to a battle line to disrupt the safe zone will also put them at risk of being cut down.

 

[Burned_Cookie]

It would be yet another tool of warfare, and an extremely useful one at that.

One as a Great Artifact is borderline useless, as it's dispelled almost immediately, but if you can make a whole bunch and hand them out to the army (or optimally mass produce them and scatter them everywhere but that's not really an option) you suddenly have the big guns version of an anti-undead-mob shieldwall.

"Oh look your hero unit tore a whole in the shieldwall" is unfortunate but not unexpected, and the same would apply to these things.

The really challenge as always is making them.

 

[DragonParadox]

TT wise, most vampires at not casters.

the strong ones, its more common.

but Deep guard, dragon knights, black knights etc etc? not many of them.

... I guess magic education is not that common when paranoia and backstabbing is common...

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TT magic is not your basic dispel in this system . TT magic is battle magic, even if most vampires are not battle mages they should be able to suppress a relatively minor magic item fine.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

so, becue we have been talking about the Thurible, I want to try my hand again at the theme.

The Dammerlichtreiter's Saddle: (The Wilds Undisturbed/Shadowsteed)

'At the command of the hunter count, the Dammerlichtreiter rode through the lands of stirland and Sylvania on the back of a steed of shadows and death, travelling as if nothing could slow her down; The hungering branches of the Hunger Wood could catch her clock, The rocks of the Haunted Hills could not make her steed stumble, and not even the keenest of blood-red eyes could track her path.'

I feel like BoneyM is more permissive of a Spell or enchantment as long as there is a good narrative behind them.

maybe because it actually makes them more possible?

 

[Talon TigerDino]

Or perhaps we actually practice Windherding itself? We have put about 0 AP into the most basic aspect of this ability.

 

[picklepikkl]

Perhaps, accepting a human/hafling colony with some wizards similar to K8P? Normalizing this model is pretty cool to me. Of course, the colonist would need to be worthy! But I'd love to see a dwarven/human empire slowly retake the World Spine.

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Huh, now I want to ask them to take in a We colony.

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I really like this line of thought. Much more than any other proposed uses for Karak Vlag.

Or perhaps we actually practice Windherding itself? We have put about 0 AP into the most basic aspect of this ability.

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I disagree with a lot of what Jyn has written about Windherder over the past year that we've been talking about it, but he's right about this. There's no "practice Windherder" option: the way to practice it is to try making something or try casting something with it. There's no [] fuck around with Windherding AP tax we need to pay before we're allowed to use it for real, using it for real is how we practice with it. I intend to try to make a simple item with it next turn, or possibly the turn afterward if we spend all of next turn on Waystones stuff.

 

[Mopman43]

I really like this line of thought. Much more than any other proposed uses for Karak Vlag.

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Main issue with the We idea (beyond, you know, convincing the Dwarfs to go along with it, and convincing the We to go along with it) is that we'd somehow have to transport an adult Egg-layer* across the breadth of the Old World. Along with probably a few dozen Hunters and such.

Which might be a challenge, to say the least.

(Actually, mass-casting Mookery of Death might see some use again...)

*We'd have to transport an adult Egg-layer because they're the ones that handle long-term memory for the We, and if we want a hypothetical Vlag-We to have all the knowledge and socialization of K8P-We, it can't be an egg, it has to be able to remember everything.