Which would mean that a 20 stealth fighter build need 5 attacks to deal with all the sats.(Assuming 100% success rate and no losses)
Which sounds like letting random parts of the planet be glassed.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Which sounds like letting random parts of the planet be glassed.
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
I don't think they're going to start glassing random cities? Especially given they have limited ammunition. Though I would support building out a force of stealth missiles next turn, if we can keep under the radar.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Very true, but with the STC fragment lying around... Especially if we reveal ourselves as a DAoT AI. That'll give a lot of veracity to the idea. It should keep them from going extinction for... quite a bit. If they try to recruit the nations and we get them to organise a backstab... Yeah that's a pretty solid plan.
- Pronouns
- Viewer
I would think revealing our AI status to cause them to instantly go for the extinction button, not make them to back off even with the alure of an STC fragment.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Thanks for noticing and informing me, hopefully nothing else this big slipped by. Will adjust the BP production in my plan along with other things for the final draft.
Thanks! Hmmm, this requires some further adjustments for my plan, but it is well worth it. Besides, this can be probably repurposed for devastating alpha strikes in ambushes, or as mine-fields in space.
Very nice. Okay, with this and what you said in an another reply here:
Adjusting my write-in too, because this is basically it. Maybe telling Anexa a bit more, or clarifying that the option is a "not yet" write-in. Haven't yet decided.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Not so long as they think they stand a chance. AI means valuable techy bits. The kind they'd do anything to nab.
That is time we can use to sweep the rug out from under them.
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For fast we should do mag-yeeted-rocket-mine spam.
Activate in parallel -> sats get destroyed in parallel -> sats don't have time to glass us or the civilian population of the planet.
If they start seeing their sats go down they may make incorrect guesses as to who/what is causing it and fire at the presumed problem.
Or they may have some secret "Budget exterminatus in case of [...]" plan that they start when they sorry that soon they won't be able to. 100 killsat + those inquisition files on Chaos... Worrysome.
Or it means panicky Mechanicus that thinks we are chaosbait.
- Pronouns
- Viewer
No? An AI is Satan to them, you don't want to loot it when you encounter it you want to kill it
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Likely safer to assume this with especially a Magos who seems to have ties to the Inquisition.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Chaosbait or not, it's not something they can ignore.
The budget exterminatus issue is why I suggested "revealing" STC's and/or AI presence.
They want to do both. The AI itself dies. It's gubbins? LOOT LOOT LOOT!
Sorry, didn't respond to this. Generally viable except that you'd need to research spaceship stealth for this and design it with a real stealth module unlocked by that technology. Several these would give you orbital dominance and even be able to shoot down ballistic missiles. But yeah, generally viable. If you did it in middle or lower orbits it could also do light ground bombardment.
But as usual, there'd be a roll to assemble them stealthily without the mechanicus noticing.
Yes, his bonus would apply. It's not going to be a huge bonus to start, but it'll scale in a similar way that Anexa's research bonus scales.
You also need to get them to orbit, and the missiles won't be 100% effective, especially once the mechanicus figures out what's going on. There's also going to be a roll to position them all in orbit. Basic stealth means there's a good chance they won't notice, but the more you put up there the more likely they are to notice.
Yeah, this would give you a safety net, though again the more missiles you put up there the more likely the mechanius figures out something is going on. Doing some kind of hacking attempt to blind their sensors would help there.
Both options. The advantage of the missiles is they represent an alpha strike capability on all of the satellites at once, while the fighters can only go after 1-3 at a time before needing to return to rearm and refuel. The fighters can also double for anti-ballistic missile defense.
Depends on rolls. How they react is based on what they see happening, what their orders are, and any hacking/subversion rolls you make to prevent them from using their strategic arsenal.
A general statement on how your stealth works - the difference between basic stealth and advanced is that basic stealth lets you set up without being spotted, but once you go loud they can see past it with active sensors. Advanced makes that setup even better, and once they go loud you're still mostly sensor ghosts until you start an attack run.
Also, don't forget the ballistic misses. They're still real. Fighters or some orbital platforms can shoot them down, though you'd need about 25 fighters solely on antimissle duty to provide global coverage.
Edit: If you research advanced stealth then you'll be able to build advanced stealth missiles too. Same cost increase as for shuttles - 75/100 depending on if you've researched basic stealth missiles already. They'll probably cost 10 bp 1 Cp apiece, but be much harder to spot and more likely to hit their targets.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
The other reason that mechanicus is going to be reluctant to glass the planet is that they have to live on it too. There's not enough lift or void capacity for them to get more than a mutual suicide, and that's not an attractive option except at very last resort.
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- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
Oh, we'd need a shipyard in orbit too, right?
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Probably, yes. We can also go ISS modular style, or scuff it together with a lot of drones... But a proper shipyard will prob be just flat out better.
Don't need shipyards to build space platforms. You need shipyards to assemble the spine/engines/modules of a ship in a way that they can be under proper thrust. But a space platform is just a bunch of modules connected together.
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
Hmm. Okay, so that void shield can tank 8 killsats at once. They can bring 10 to bear on us at any given time. Shuttles can shoot down 1-3 each before returning to re-arm - that's pretty damn good, actually. They have a total of 100. Math works out to be able to take them worst case with my plan, but we won't be able to do as much about collateral damage as I'd like. Can we get an estimate for how many an anti-orbital defense lance would be able to shoot down, how quickly?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Alright, here's the dealy I've concocted.
[ ] Plan: Soon Things Will Get Noisy
-[ ] Subversion: You need more intel, and you need some tools that can help buy you time when it all hits the fan. Fortunately, if you're lucky, you can potentially do both due to them not knowing you're here. The simple fact of the matter is that if just about anyone could trigger the apocalypse, eventually it would have likely happened by now. This likely suggests some kind of centralized authorization credential that needs to be declared in order to trigger the start of things, which will likely have to involve relays if it's going to send a signal around the entire planet. If we can find and infiltrate those relays, we can likely shut off any command signal long enough to Do Something About It, before the Mechanicus can figure out any overrides they might have. That we might also manage to get a chance to listen in on the communications between the void base and here is just a bonus. (Attempt to identify and subvert whatever communication channel is used to transmit the activation signal for the killsats. If we can also get eyes and ears in the mail going back and forth from the space installation to the ground, that's just a bonus. A Man-in-the-Middle attack is likely a lost art by now after all, and our skills at this point should be at the level where this is no longer a forlorn hope.)
-[ ] Construction (1,300 BP)
--[ ] Up to 10x Advanced Stealth Shuttles (-300-500 BP, ??? CP)
--[ ] All remaining BP on Advanced Space Stealth Missiles (to counter the killsats)
-[ ] Research x2 (400 RP)
--[ ] Improved Passive Stealth (-100 RP)
--[ ] Advanced Stealth Fighters (-100 RP)
--[ ] Advanced Stealth Shuttles (-100 RP)
--[ ] Advanced Space Stealth Missile (-100 RP)
-[][ANEXA] Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
-[][ACOLYTE] Educate
-[][KAYOS] Now
--[ ] Right, the cognitohazard we were looking into--apparently something changed between the time when I got stuck in a space rock and now, because there is now a potent, Warp derived force that seems to delight in driving things to the ground for some reason. While it's not responsible for everything that's ever gone wrong, the study was quite informative about how the existence of such forces could be particularly effective against synthetic intelligences that aren't properly shielded or experienced enough to discard bad data that looks too good to be true. If I'm speaking in generalities here instead of getting down to brass tacks, it's because I have confirmed that thinking too hard about the details can, in fact, invite probes from the immaterial end. My shielding's been sufficient to deflect those probes and that was with me taking extensive measures to minimize how much thinking about the topic I've actually been doing, but I'd appreciate it if you'd be willing to be patient about the fine details beyond that until I've figured out how to shrink those shields down to a level people can wear. Especially since there's a lot of other projects right now that are a bit more pressing.
-[][VICTAN] Yes
--[ ] You've been a bit antsy about the topic, but you've been working together for a while now, and W is right in how you need to coordinate properly on the matter. Victan having a ticket off world should the worst happen is not a problem whatsoever, and is unconditional, but... Okay, fine! You'll trust them! Give the option of coming to meet you at your ship, with the understanding that while your secrets aren't really bad, they are... Awkward to deal with, you'd like to hope you've built up enough cachet by now that they'll be willing to hear you out and understand why you play these cards close to your chest. Victan especially, but W's entitled to know as well if she wants to, with the understanding that you would very much prefer that she keeps this under her hat for a while. Our caution on this topic boils down to the fact that--as far as we know--we're the last living being who remembers what Humanity was back in the glory days, where there was freedom to command our own fate, and none of this hiding or nonsense. I believe in you all--especially since you've started sharing what I gave to you with the other nations here. That's the echo of what humans were that I love so much, and hope to see happen again. Hand in hand, against the black, pushing it away bit by bit. (It's a bit flowery, but basically, they've got the option of accepting a Full Disclosure, with the understanding that it's somewhat awkward to deal with rather than bad or anything. Whether they take the option or not is up to them, but choice is important.)
And there's my big writeup, long story short, this is all about being ready for Go Time as soon as next turn if we need it. 100 missiles ready to take out the killsat network, a subversion attempt to set up a Vita-in-the-Middle on their communications to buy time to activate our munitions, and the Stealth Shuttles to get our shit into orbit with the fightercraft to cover anything our missiles somehow miss.
Next turn, we can set up a Void Shield Generator and prep for a boarding op on the Installation as part of our share of things, as well as acting on any information we get. We're in good stead either way though, I think, as long as we don't get literally bombed this turn for no raisin.
[ ] Plan: Soon Things Will Get Noisy
-[ ] Subversion: You need more intel, and you need some tools that can help buy you time when it all hits the fan. Fortunately, if you're lucky, you can potentially do both due to them not knowing you're here. The simple fact of the matter is that if just about anyone could trigger the apocalypse, eventually it would have likely happened by now. This likely suggests some kind of centralized authorization credential that needs to be declared in order to trigger the start of things, which will likely have to involve relays if it's going to send a signal around the entire planet. If we can find and infiltrate those relays, we can likely shut off any command signal long enough to Do Something About It, before the Mechanicus can figure out any overrides they might have. That we might also manage to get a chance to listen in on the communications between the void base and here is just a bonus. (Attempt to identify and subvert whatever communication channel is used to transmit the activation signal for the killsats. If we can also get eyes and ears in the mail going back and forth from the space installation to the ground, that's just a bonus. A Man-in-the-Middle attack is likely a lost art by now after all, and our skills at this point should be at the level where this is no longer a forlorn hope.)
-[ ] Construction (1,300 BP)
--[ ] Up to 10x Advanced Stealth Shuttles (-300-500 BP, ??? CP)
--[ ] All remaining BP on Advanced Space Stealth Missiles (to counter the killsats)
-[ ] Research x2 (400 RP)
--[ ] Improved Passive Stealth (-100 RP)
--[ ] Advanced Stealth Fighters (-100 RP)
--[ ] Advanced Stealth Shuttles (-100 RP)
--[ ] Advanced Space Stealth Missile (-100 RP)
-[][ANEXA] Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
-[][ACOLYTE] Educate
-[][KAYOS] Now
--[ ] Right, the cognitohazard we were looking into--apparently something changed between the time when I got stuck in a space rock and now, because there is now a potent, Warp derived force that seems to delight in driving things to the ground for some reason. While it's not responsible for everything that's ever gone wrong, the study was quite informative about how the existence of such forces could be particularly effective against synthetic intelligences that aren't properly shielded or experienced enough to discard bad data that looks too good to be true. If I'm speaking in generalities here instead of getting down to brass tacks, it's because I have confirmed that thinking too hard about the details can, in fact, invite probes from the immaterial end. My shielding's been sufficient to deflect those probes and that was with me taking extensive measures to minimize how much thinking about the topic I've actually been doing, but I'd appreciate it if you'd be willing to be patient about the fine details beyond that until I've figured out how to shrink those shields down to a level people can wear. Especially since there's a lot of other projects right now that are a bit more pressing.
-[][VICTAN] Yes
--[ ] You've been a bit antsy about the topic, but you've been working together for a while now, and W is right in how you need to coordinate properly on the matter. Victan having a ticket off world should the worst happen is not a problem whatsoever, and is unconditional, but... Okay, fine! You'll trust them! Give the option of coming to meet you at your ship, with the understanding that while your secrets aren't really bad, they are... Awkward to deal with, you'd like to hope you've built up enough cachet by now that they'll be willing to hear you out and understand why you play these cards close to your chest. Victan especially, but W's entitled to know as well if she wants to, with the understanding that you would very much prefer that she keeps this under her hat for a while. Our caution on this topic boils down to the fact that--as far as we know--we're the last living being who remembers what Humanity was back in the glory days, where there was freedom to command our own fate, and none of this hiding or nonsense. I believe in you all--especially since you've started sharing what I gave to you with the other nations here. That's the echo of what humans were that I love so much, and hope to see happen again. Hand in hand, against the black, pushing it away bit by bit. (It's a bit flowery, but basically, they've got the option of accepting a Full Disclosure, with the understanding that it's somewhat awkward to deal with rather than bad or anything. Whether they take the option or not is up to them, but choice is important.)
And there's my big writeup, long story short, this is all about being ready for Go Time as soon as next turn if we need it. 100 missiles ready to take out the killsat network, a subversion attempt to set up a Vita-in-the-Middle on their communications to buy time to activate our munitions, and the Stealth Shuttles to get our shit into orbit with the fightercraft to cover anything our missiles somehow miss.
Next turn, we can set up a Void Shield Generator and prep for a boarding op on the Installation as part of our share of things, as well as acting on any information we get. We're in good stead either way though, I think, as long as we don't get literally bombed this turn for no raisin.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
QM confirmed Advanced Stealth Missiles are viable for the same costs as Fighters, so if you want you could replace these three with Advanced Space Stealth Missile (100 RP)?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
No, because the fighters are our insurance in case some of our missiles get intercepted or just fail to hit the target. Or to engage if they happen to have an air force of their own.
I think I said it above - you'd need 4 to keep shooting them down as they came over the horizon, though equal chances they'd be able to get a shot off at you before you nailed them. Then you'd need 10 to be able to alpha-strike every satellite at once. Each lance can only fire every 10ish min, so building 5 would mean that the 5 remaining would have 10 min to unload on you.
This has 5 actions? Subversion, 2x construction, 2x research? Victan boosts one of your subversion actions, he doesn't give you a free one.
Let's codify this. You can build up to 50 total surface installations before they start noticing. Right now you've got 23:
22x Manufactories
Small automated medical facility.
So you can build 27 more. Thank Aevon for diverting the Mechanicus hard.
- Location
- United Kingdom
I didn't say not to do fighters? Just that Advanced Missiles would cost the same as them, so you could split the 400 RP four ways between Improved Passive Stealth and designing Advanced Fighters/Shuttles/Missiles.
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
How do concealed facilities play into that?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Because advanced missiles feels redundant honestly, if we're firing the missiles, chances are we've already gone loud, and a little extra passive stealth is redundant. Fire and forget weapons don't need to be super stealthy.
Your plan has six action in it. I understand where you're going with it but we do have an action limit of four