Empathy as sensors and scry protection really aren't necessary right now, I feel. If it turns out there's a united front of Craftworlders and Drukhari behind this single small time raid, sure, let's throw everything we have into researching anti-divination and psychic fuckery detection, but right now the faction we know are enemies are the Drukhari, who don't use anything of the sort. It's better to leave those for the next few turns.
I am not doing anti-divination this turn, because I agree it is a less priority.

I am doing Empathy as sensors, because those will be doing multi-duty:
1) Drukhari/Eldar if they somehow still give us trouble with improved sensors
2) Webway analysis
3) eyes on our demon, perhaps we'll get to see his rolls as they happen instead of only when we poke it?
 
We go to the Webway Gate, hopefully find some Corsairs or at least one ship... And hire them to hunt down the Drukhari, bring her head and the slaves plus whatever else they stole back.
I really like this idea. While the Eldar do have great tech we have some shinies of our own to offer, like a black-boxed self repair psychic shield (payment upon delivery, some research required).

Project: Navigator:
-[] Does in vitro have something to do with wine? (150 RP) Unlocks the ability to clone basic humans (Unlocks the cloning bay, as well as further technology to clone things other than baseline humans, like humans without brains for organs or humans with more dramatic genetic mutations. Along with brain implants may lead to personality backups).
-[] Navigator Gestation (200 RP) You have a navigator fetus. You don't know what to do with that beyond the obvious. So, how would you do it? Well, you doubt you could just implant it into somebody. From the traces left behind on Klyssar's nest you should do this in a tank. (Allows you to turn the navigator fetus into a navigator baby) Locked behind the Does in vitro have something to do with wine? and maybe a followup tech depending on rolls.

LightLan, we might want to add the navigator genetics (below) techs to Project Navigator. Lots of navigators suffer from health issues, so this would let us detect (and hopefully treat) any issues before gestation.

-[] Complex genetic enhancement (150 RP) The complexity of human genetics lies in the epistasis between multiple different alleles. Put more simply, this shit is complicated. Figure it out. (Unlocks more advanced enhancements, including significantly improved strength, intelligence, etc. Unlocks research for even more dramatic engineering, and is likely required to try to make psykers)
-[] Navigator Genetics (400 RP) So... you have some navigator genetic material. You can poke at that, see if you can figure out how it works. They had a reputation even back in your day, and it only seems to have gotten worse. Still, tempting. (Unlocks basic understanding of navigator genetics. Will unlock further technology to improve the health of navigators, as well as technology to allow you to clone navigators.) Locked behind Complex genetic enhancement
 
Stop: It is unacceptable to fetishise violence or hatred.
stop: it is unacceptable to fetishise violence or hatred.
Even against fictional species, SV expects that you will engage with content maturely, not by fetishising violence or hatred against them. Be thoughtful in how you engage with such content in future.

Picio and OtherGuy have received infractions, and several users have received Staff Notices for failing to meet these standards.

Thank you.
 
What the hell!? Did the dark eldar corrupt this thread!?

Anyway I haven't been engaging much but I really don't care for this system outside of dealing with the dark eldar or the gate. Even if we don't deal with the humans afterwards I think it's a good thing to deal with them.
 
@Neablis question do we need an order action to set up a response plan for dealing with a dark eldar encounter essentially having a roll specifically towards combat rather than the overall exploration?
 
So are the people making plans right now aware that this was a raid by a Dark Eldar Wych Cult instead of a Kabal raid Drukhari usually pull?

Because there is a massive difference between tracking down members of a Dark Eldar Kabal and tracking down Dark Eldar equivalents to pop idols.
 
LightLan, we might want to add the navigator genetics (below) techs to Project Navigator. Lots of navigators suffer from health issues, so this would let us detect (and hopefully treat) any issues before gestation.
There is the option to research adult human genetics, which means it's not quite so urgent to get any fixes ready before our baby grows up.

If nothing else good enough medical tech should help mitigate any issues until then.
 
I wonder if we could tinker up some tractor beams. If anyone could do it we could.
We could just research grav-weapons. Should probably allow for less destructive applications, at least with maybe some further research.

And like Copperscale pointed out, Orks already have something like it. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much samples of their tech might help us.
 
Oh yea I forgot we gotta replace all our combat bots we lost. Can we make them all humanized this time? They're stronger when humanized and if humanized we can use them outside our ship. I don't understand why we made them non-human.
 
And like Copperscale pointed out, Orks already have something like it. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much samples of their tech might help us.
With our Reality-Simulations, Fundamental Physics Module and after we've done Immaterium Understanding, we might get somewhere.
While Vita is tearing her hair out.
Oh yea I forgot we gotta replace all our combat bots we lost. Can we make them all humanized this time? They're stronger when humanized and if humanized we can use them outside our ship. I don't understand why we made them non-human.
We only lost a couple hundred, ~200ish IIRC. And we still got that many left:
Available ground forces:
2000 Light Machine-spirit humanized infantry bots (2x20 = 40 CP)
1000 Medium Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots (20 CP)
3000 Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (3x20 = 60 CP)
3690 Heavy Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (4x20 = 80 CP)
We'll also build at least 1000 per batch, so it isn't a priority yet.
 
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Mod posted again? I feel like the silver surfer, everywhere I go infractions follow in my wake.

Anyway @DragonParadox just concluding on that discussion from last night I don't really disagree with any of the actions you're suggesting in this particular incident, more the tone you went with.

Yup. Only way to justify the Imperium is by the context in which it exists. If it's possible to change that context then it is unjustifiable
First: good to know, helps answer a lot of questions I would have had.

I'm aware this is probably coming close to taking sides, but I'd really appreciate an answer to this question because a "no" would save me weeks of pointless internet arguments: Is there merit in attempting to reform the imperium without directly conquering/subverting it, or would we have a moral imperitive to see it replaced outright? I'd prefer the first but I'm happy to pursue either option wholeheartedly. I just want to know if I'd be wasting my time or not.

Also if you missed it, see below for why I actually care about this:

OK, I'm not going to argue this from a moral perspective because I'd lose, so let me just be straightforward.

I like reading about the imperium. As a twisted mirror of our own civilization and history, they are a fascinating and fun fictional society, who, regardless of what people say, simultaneously hold the narrative role of "good guy" and "bad guy" simultaneously. Sure, it's a fascist's wet dream, a militaristic state beset on all sides by the actual, legitimate forces of evil, but that comes part and parcel with the premise of the setting. It's also a demonstration of all the ways fascism doesn't work as the imperium trips over itself trying to secure victories.

And despite all of that, there are some of the bravest, noblest, kindest heroes gathered under its banner, fighting side by side with monsters and war criminals- and sometimes those people are one and the same, because humans are complicated.

What this quest offers is a chance to give the citizens of the imperium legitimate hope, and a reprieve from the endless war they fight. A chance to show mankind a better way. Reducing that to "imperium bad" would still be fair morally, but would definitely kill most of my interest in the quest.

Anyway I think the imperium is neat and would like to diplomance them,make them allies in the fight against chaos, and reform them from the inside instead of declaring war on them.

Not because it's the right thing to do, but because I think the quest would be more fun that way.


One last thing: to be clear; fascism bad, it gets people killed and doesn't even work right.
 
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First: good to know, helps answer a lot of questions I would have had.

I'm aware this is probably coming close to taking sides, but I'd really appreciate an answer to this question because a "no" would save me weeks of pointless internet arguments: Is there merit in attempting to reform the imperium without directly conquering/subverting it, or would we have a moral imperitive to see it replaced outright? I'd prefer the first but I'm happy to pursue either option wholeheartedly. I just want to know if I'd be wasting my time or not.
I haven't been really following this particular discussion. But my view is a bit more on the pragmatic side.

Imperium is bad for us, because if they find that Vita exists, she will become a major target for them. So subverting/conquering/diplomancing Imperial polities away from being a part of the Imperium to something more tolerable and potentially AI-friendly is potentially useful for our long-term survival, depending on the circumstances. Though I'm not that interested in pure conquest. Most of the time inefficient, traumatic due to horrific loss of life and likely to cause grudges with the surviving population.

Anyway, I want more polities like Denva / the Stellar Ascendancy, whose people already view Vita positively. And so might not want to kill her even if they learn that she is an AI. Well, at least if we manage to control the narrative, maybe with the controlled release of the information after we establish our technological supremacy a bit more to avoid the Imperium immediately stomping us if/when they find out.

...A lot more. Significantly more. I know that the Imperium is functionally crippled and far away when it comes to this region, but I don't feel safe enough to revealing the truth about us yet anytime soon. And there are other factions too to consider.

But meanwhile, as this is a long term project, probably better done in conjunction with the Stellar Ascendancy? I'm more than happy to try our luck again with other Imperial polities to see if we manage to roll better with them when it comes to trade or other stuff.
 
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Yeah Imperium is a lost cause, I go for Stellar Ascendancy and as a xeno fan I would want make a politely that has xenos, abhumans and nonhumans in it as well but without Games Workshop's spewing bullshit in killing them off to make Space Marines look cool like they did to likes of Interex and Diasporex or turn them into mini-Imperials like they did to the Tau.


And of course, with hookers and blackjacks.
 
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Mod posted again? I feel like the silver surfer, everywhere I go infractions follow in my wake.

Anyway @DragonParadox just concluding on that discussion from last night I don't really disagree with any of the actions you're suggesting in this particular incident, more the tone you went with.

For what it's worth it was very late and I was a lot more blunt in my answers that I would have been if I weren't trying to race sleep. Sorry about that.

Onto the question if the Imperium has to be destroyed or if it can be reformed. I think that much like a a stereotypical fortune cookie the answer is 'yes'. From the perspective of the High Lords on distant Tera any state we can accept will be so different from orthodoxy as to be a distinct (and heretical) entity. But on the other hand from where we are standing... most of humankind for the last ten thousand years has lived under the shadow of the Imperium of Man, its culture, its religion, its language are going to inevitably shape those policies to the point where calling even Denva, divergent as it is, an Imperial successor state would not be inaccurate.

They still have some form of the Imperial Faith, though far less pervasive, they still have a mechanicus, even if it's a research group as much as a cult these days. With OMC being such a large part of their tech base and tech priests being some of the first users I would not be surprised if a version of the Machine Cult remains quite popular for instance.
 
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Anyway, I want more polities like Denva / the Stellar Ascendancy, whose people already view Vita positively might not want to kill Vita, even if they learn that she is an AI. Well, at least if we manage to control the narrative, maybe with the controlled release of the information after we establish our technological supremacy a bit more to avoid the Imperium immediately stomping us if/when they find out.

...A lot more. Significantly more. I know that the Imperium is functionally crippled and far away when it comes to this region, but I don't feel safe enough to revealing the truth about us yet anytime soon. And there are other factions too to consider.
It's why we gave them so much tech knowledge we had.

And why we'll continue to give them tech knowledge.
We need an ally. And they can be one.

It's also why we won't share most of our tech knowledge with any imperials. Hilariously they won't ask for it either because the machine cult made using tech no one understands normal. They'll assume we got no clue either, unless we actually tell them.
 
I haven't been really following this particular discussion. But my view is a bit more on the pragmatic side.

Imperium is bad for us, because if they find that Vita exists, she will become a major target for them. So subverting/conquering/diplomancing Imperial polities away from being a part of the Imperium to something more tolerable and potentially AI-friendly is potentially useful for our long-term survival, depending on the circumstances. Though I'm not that interested in pure conquest. Most of the time inefficient, traumatic due to horrific loss of life and likely to cause grudges with the surviving population.

Anyway, I want more polities like Denva / the Stellar Ascendancy, whose people already view Vita positively. And so might not want to kill her even if they learn that she is an AI. Well, at least if we manage to control the narrative, maybe with the controlled release of the information after we establish our technological supremacy a bit more to avoid the Imperium immediately stomping us if/when they find out.

...A lot more. Significantly more. I know that the Imperium is functionally crippled and far away when it comes to this region, but I don't feel safe enough to revealing the truth about us yet anytime soon. And there are other factions too to consider.

But meanwhile, as this is a long term project, probably better done in conjunction with the Stellar Ascendancy? I'm more than happy to try our luck again with other Imperial polities to see if we manage to roll better with them when it comes to trade or other stuff.
Yeah that is an issue I don't have a good answer for. Pragmatically it makes sense for us to align anti-imperium, I just don't want to miss out on fun content because of it. But uh, putting our lives and our crew mates lives at risk for said content isn't really a solid argument.

What I'm kind of hoping will end up happening is we'll end up meeting with Bobby G or Cawl at some point, who both have a vested interest in changing the imperium for the better and will also have 0 problems overlooking the fact that we're AI. That's probably our best shot at approaching the imperium as equals as opposed to a the role of a saboteur.
 
So are the people making plans right now aware that this was a raid by a Dark Eldar Wych Cult instead of a Kabal raid Drukhari usually pull?

Because there is a massive difference between tracking down members of a Dark Eldar Kabal and tracking down Dark Eldar equivalents to pop idols.
Crucially, ia that a thing Vita has the background to understand?

Either way, any attempt at immediate vengeance is pointless pontificating - we couldn't track the DEldar and we'd have to get very lucky to really understand the ship.

This is, however, a great impetus to pivot from our prior near-monofocus on Chaos and bongo.
 
For what it's worth it was very late and I was a lot more blunt in my answers that I would have been if I weren't trying to race sleep. Sorry about that.

Onto the question if the Imperium has to be destroyed or if it can be reformed. I think that much like a a stereotypical fortune cookie the answer is 'yes'. From the perspective of the High Lords on distant Tera any state we can accept will be so different from orthodoxy as to be a distinct (and heretical) entity. But on the other hand from where we are standing... most of humankind for the last ten thousand years has lived under the shadow of the Imperium of Man, its culture, its religion, its language are going to inevitably shape those policies to the point where calling even Denva, divergent as it is, an Imperial successor state would not be inaccurate.

They still have some form of the Imperial Faith, though far less pervasive, they still have a mechanicus, even if it's a research group as much as a cult these days. With OMC being such a large part of their tech base and tech priests being some of the first users I would not be surprised if a version of the Machine Cult remains quite popular for instance.
Yeah np man, I was just surprised given how much it diverged from some of the stuff you've written in your quests.

And yeah, the imperium is vast. We might never see eye to eye with Terra or Mars, but like Denva, there will probably be places a lot more tolerant of us. Possibly not the planet run by the Nuns with Guns though.

I guess I'm hoping for a place we can talk to people at that has a bit more of that 40k flavor. Denva was easy to work with but mechanicus cults aside wasn't very 40k.
 
What I'm kind of hoping will end up happening is we'll end up meeting with Bobby G or Cawl at some point, who both have a vested interest in changing the imperium for the better and will also have 0 problems overlooking the fact that we're AI.

I'm not sure if that would be a good idea because despite Roboute expressing regret on drstroying xeno civilizations he still thinks all those xenocides and xenophobia is "necessary", Cawl made an AI of G-man without his conset and an AI of himself even with brain juice and despite all his heretekicality he believes in God-emperor and the Imperium something even Fabius Bile called him out on.
Also, I have yet to hear of a Primarch taking a "No" for answer while they were busy in their Great Crusade without either killing, conquering, coercing or forcing the said "No" replier. I mean, what if Cawl without her conset make AIs based on her or spill his weird science? What if Roboute ask Vita to make mass destruction weapons? What if he demands her to go genocide a xeno world just for being on the way or help him in forcing Imperial worlds in exhausting their reasources to make his Indominitus Crusade going?(that actually happened).


I be honest, if we gonna ally with a Primarch we have much better chance with Lion who no longer a fan of the Imperium and even thinks that if humans learned to coexist with xenos humanity would not have been in such a shitty situation.
 
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I am not doing anti-divination this turn, because I agree it is a less priority.

I am doing Empathy as sensors, because those will be doing multi-duty:
1) Drukhari/Eldar if they somehow still give us trouble with improved sensors
2) Webway analysis
3) eyes on our demon, perhaps we'll get to see his rolls as they happen instead of only when we poke it?
Empathy as sensors also gives us a literal new way to see stuff, with potential exploration payoffs. Good for understanding Cia and her progress or difficulties. Potential for psytech analysis.

It may come with some extra psychic vulnerability - as a psykanic diviner - but the payoff is worth it and the investment makes sense for an explorer.

(And our psychic shields are pretty darn good, with more potential to improve.)
 
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