Not sure if anyone mentioned this but we get this bonus on Denva Primus exclusively.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Not sure if anyone mentioned this but we get this bonus on Denva Primus exclusively.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Sure! I bet we'll get that too. But that's just another reason to go back to Denva - and once we go back to Denva for it, it just makes more sense to build out on Primus rather than come all the way back here to build stuff.
My point exactly! Thank you for digging up the exact post, though.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Look it's super late on my end so i leave at that.
I don't think this is the best of the ideas because someone will bring up the idea of giving this industry away. For better or worse the Denva sytem are not out subordinates and have their wants and interest.
Building anything there will get some ownership discussion.
Primus specially will bring some paralles of colonization on indigenous lands that tend be sensitive for the USA crowd on SB and brings unnecessary drama.
If we and more industry to start off we can trow bongo into the sun and get the shipboard manufactory upgrades in place. That and the labs we can make the spark become a industrial seed ship relatively quickly.
I mean, if we're talking long term, I'd prefer all our manufacturing to be in the form of extremely stealthy but still well armed and defended factory cruisers.
Preferably those cruisers would also include living space into which we'd evacuate everyone we like who currently lives on anything that isn't mobile. Stationary populations are a losing game in a galaxy with belligerent necrons, dark eldar, and inquisitors any of which could wake up on the wrong side of the bed and destroy your planet to make themselves feel better.
Preferably those cruisers would also include living space into which we'd evacuate everyone we like who currently lives on anything that isn't mobile. Stationary populations are a losing game in a galaxy with belligerent necrons, dark eldar, and inquisitors any of which could wake up on the wrong side of the bed and destroy your planet to make themselves feel better.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
We gave our industry away the first time because we couldn't use it remotely. Once we have Warp Comms, that won't be a problem anymore.
As for Primus, yes it will, and I think that will make for a fascinating story, and would love to figure out how we handle that kind of situation *well*. And I don't think 'run way and pretend it's not our problem' is the correct answer.
As for tossing Bongo, again, less efficient than just building out on the surface of a planet, especially if that planet is Denva Primus. And also throws away all the benefits we can get from Bongo, which I think is a mistake, but that's a whole nother conversation.
Factory cruisers simply aren't very efficient, especially well defended stealthy ones. Some industry that way, sure, but all of it? No way, don't be silly.
Besides, Denva is a useful asset in many other ways - we could get a research institute with them for bonus RP, for example, and gain it's benefits while exploring via Warp Comms. So we want to defend them anyway.
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I could be wrong but I feel like the thread in general is expecting more out of warp comms then we're likely to get. I expect them to be good for sending messages and coordinating with agents or allies in other systems but feel doubtful that they'd have sufficient and sufficiently reliable bandwidth to do anything really complex without quite a few additional unlocks, if it's possible at all.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Oh I think we might need some additional unlocks, but so be it, it's a worthy goal. And I'm quite certain it'll be possible, I don't expect Neablis to screw us on this. Warp comms is a necessary step to progress to doing things on a larger scale, and as Neablis has said:
The space Bongo's vault takes up is significant relative to the very modest production capacity of the Spark, but not relative to any actually substantive industrial base. Spark isn't remotely big enough to replace an actual heap of factories.
Not doing the thing isn't running away and pretending it's not our problem, it's deciding the way to handle the situation well is to not turn their world into an industrial hellscape...
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
It's specifically noted that our factories have comparably little environmental impact - Vita was worried that she might eventually get found out because she *wasn't* polluting the local river as much as a Denvan factory would have. And the imperium has been mining Kultrinium for thousands of years, so what damage can be done probably has been. If anything, having some BP to offer out for environmental remediation would probably improve Denva Primus, not make worse.
Yeah we actually absolutely know, from the very beginning of the thread, that warp comms can let us have directly controlled units operating in other systems, though it does have some issues I hadn't remembered that might be prohibitive for building a giant factory and then running it by remote control:
Addon:
How many factories are you planning on stopping at?
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
We might need some additional unlocks to reach that point, but again, so be it.
We don't even have warp comms actually on our available list, just marked precursors, so yeah. We know it's there, we don't know how far away.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I have no idea. Whatever makes sense. We can talk it out with the Vellkar - they'll want some manufacturing capacity for themselves, too. Once we reach that point, we can use the existing factories to start building more factories on Denva, or in orbit, or wherever else makes sense.
We have a pretty good idea- it's exactly one step past Empathy at Range and Shouting into the void. Albeit only for the first version, but still. We've done things like this before lots of times.
Honestly tangential, but have we actually done things like this loads of times?
We have multiple examples, (nova cannon and vortex cannon spring to mind) but which ones have we actually executed?
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
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- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Warp understanding is the one that comes to mind immediately, from the abacus and the psy shields. Pretty sure there are other examples, lemme go looking for them.
Oh, there were a couple of improved psy shields things that also worked this way, IIRC?
Yeah, there were:
Of those, the first lead to advanced combat cybernetics, visible here:
And the second lead to Alternative Shielding Meanings and MS CPS, visible here:
Not things we've actually picked up yet, but we progressed through their requirements and revealed them just fine.
Though now that I think about it, the psychic attack we were promised *did* get shoved a tech back behind Alternative Shielding Meanings, arguably? Unless that was the result of a poor success or something, I don't know.
Also, the vote tally isn't describing 'Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the loot, transport ship later' properly for whatever reason, most of the research actions are getting cut off. Here's the full thing:
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- He/They
What I think this system would be great for eventually is as a giant shipyard complex basically, either eventually getting warp comms/daughter ai/automated manufactories and slowly building it out in the background. Once fully scaled up it's a frankly ridiculous amount of industrial capability that more importantly is fully ours. We won't need to negotiate with Denva every time we want to commandeer some of their factories - which is very much not a insubstantial burden for them.
I have considered factory ships so that we could simply bring an industrial base along with us but well taking this from the proposed designs,
This is 15500BP(plus shipyard space) and would provide 1000bp/turn with upgraded ship manufactories vs 3100bp/turn from the same bp spent on orbital manufactories. Now admittedly an advantage is this ship only takes 300CP vs 2500 thoughh one might argue that 3x the price isn't that bad of a deal for the advantages it provides. Certainly wouldn't hurt having a few such ships in a fleet but back to the point, building up this system would still be more cost-effective if we want a manufacturing base independent from Denva.
Still don't think this system is a major priority to build up IMMEDIATELY but the option is there for sure.
I have considered factory ships so that we could simply bring an industrial base along with us but well taking this from the proposed designs,
| Foundry Factory Ship (15,625 BP), Heavy Cruiser, 100 RP, 300 CP, Hull 6000 BP, 6000x1200 meters, Engines: 3 gravities for 400 BP, Shields: medium for 400, Armor: medium for 400, Warp Drive (600 BP), Void Abacus (600 BP), Psychic Shielding (240) for (1200 BP), Troop compartment (25 BP), Manufactory (5000 BP), Repair Bay (400 BP), 2x Light Lances (200 BP), 2x Shuttles (200 BP, 100 CP, 1000 Lift Capacity), 4x Point Defense (200 BP) |
This is 15500BP(plus shipyard space) and would provide 1000bp/turn with upgraded ship manufactories vs 3100bp/turn from the same bp spent on orbital manufactories. Now admittedly an advantage is this ship only takes 300CP vs 2500 thoughh one might argue that 3x the price isn't that bad of a deal for the advantages it provides. Certainly wouldn't hurt having a few such ships in a fleet but back to the point, building up this system would still be more cost-effective if we want a manufacturing base independent from Denva.
Still don't think this system is a major priority to build up IMMEDIATELY but the option is there for sure.
Nope. It's explicitly supposed to be the simplest possible repair bay. I've let you stretch it so far mostly for the sake of simplicity. But you can assume that anything that's not something you built, unmodified and still largely intact it can repair. If a ship is no longer functional it's also probably unfixable by the repair bay either.
Yes, yes and kinda. The welded-to-bot amulet version would be decently fine, since that's the same design you use for people. What the desing-integrated one would get you is cost. You'd try to standardize it as much as possible to make something you can mass-produce. They wouldn't be cheap, but they'd be a lot cheaper than making 1000 of the personal units, and for the heavy bots they'd be about as strong or maybe a little stronger. Then weaker for the smaller bots. But - note that the lighter bots aren't completely useless. You want them for tight spaces fighting or against small, agile foes. The heavy bots are specced out to fight heavy foes, and won't be able to do things like catch light infantry in jungle.
Generally speaking the most defensible is deep-space, though that's mostly because it's all distributed and anybody who wants to attack it will need to spend a ton of time and attention chasing it all down. Least is orbital, since all you gotta do is get close to the planet. Ground is sort of in-between. It's all in one place but easiest to defend, though if somebody decides to exterminatus the planet then it's all gone.
Generally speaking ground manufactories are the most efficient to bootstrap, but are less CP-efficient because of the lift capacity requirement. There's also the "hidden" cost that most planets capable of holding ground manufactories are already occupied, and the local inhabitants will either fight you or charge you rent. Real estate's a lot freer in space.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
In the shorter term we can just build stuff in Denva, they have private property I'm pretty sure, we can own our own factories there. In the long term we'll probably want shipyards elsewhere, and this is an okay system for it? I still think we could get better elsewhere, but we can figure that ojt when we get to it.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
How do deep space industries get their feedstock? Or would we need to assign them mining ships to ferry inner system resources?
Is that because we can't put our factories on the likes of (modern, unterraformed) Mercury or Venus for whatever reason, or because the IoM is so fucking stubborn they colonized those places too?
EDIT: Answered by other questors
EDIT2: Hol up, I found the blueprints and will do my own math.
A few questions about IoM industrial capacity:
1. How difficult would it be for the average AdMech to manufacture and maintain psy-shields if they had the schematics like we gave Denva?
2. Supposing we got good enough at hacking to subvert a Forge World with minimal damage, how much BP would that net us?
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Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Oh? Well that's better , but I'm already voting for that plan.
I'm more concerned about the fact that they are going to be engaging in melee with Chaos tainted enemies. That always gets the corruption chances drastically up.
In the short term. I want cognition filters so that in the long term the damage from fighting Chaos doesn't accumulate as easily.
I'm open to getting a relief fleet, but only after we've stabilized this system, otherwise we could come back to it being fully a Chaos system.
For the purpose of bookkeeping that is included in their cost/cp upkeep. Narratively the deep space stations are placed in the asteroid/kuiper belt(s).
We need Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements plus follow ups to place basic ground manufacturies on non habitable planets.
So from reading the general conversation I have a few questions for the thread.
1. Why are we putting Cia into 'ground' combat against Chaos without the implants that protect against corruption when we could just blast the stations.
2. Why do people want to loot Chaos artifacts? We have no place to safely store them (putting them in the Vault seems like a particularly bad idea).
1. Why are we putting Cia into 'ground' combat against Chaos without the implants that protect against corruption when we could just blast the stations.
2. Why do people want to loot Chaos artifacts? We have no place to safely store them (putting them in the Vault seems like a particularly bad idea).
Alert: Some users have been removed from the thread for violations of Rule 3 - Be Civil
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some users have been removed from the thread for violations of rule 3 - be civil
Please remember that this is only a story, and there are other people behind the accounts you are arguing with - there is no cause to be unkind.
Please remember that this is only a story, and there are other people behind the accounts you are arguing with - there is no cause to be unkind.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
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The current winning plan does actually research the implants and puts Cia in the second wave of combat troops.
Only a few of the plans are about getting loot immediately. The rest are just about fixing the stations and/or the ship in some way.
