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...why would we care about that?

Nothing I can find on this mentions anything about it being used in the warp specifically, or Navigators saying anything about it?

It looks like it's basically a clarketech hologram that the dark eldar use to disguise their ships as friendly imperial, craftworld eldar, ork, chaos and tau ships so that they can sneak up on actual vessels of those factions and then board or destroy them by surprise. Apparently the occasional rogue trader finds them useful for sneaking around in alien systems.

OK I don't have enough time right now to go digging into the deeper sources, but the Lexicanum has a section on this:

Article:
Besides his ability to steer the vessel from any danger, the Navigator is able to influence the Warp surrounding it,[2f] while able to create small vortexes that may keep them on route, they may as well create whole Warp Storms with their power, use the prescient waters of the Warp to position their ship in an optimal attacking position when forced to battle within the Empyrean or obliterate the trail of their ship confusing those who might track them.[12f] Alternatively if employing a Mimic Engine, they are able to change their trail signature to aid in any potential subterfuge.[31e]


So if anyone has Rogue Trader: Hostile Aquisitions handy the part about the Mimic Engine and Navigators should be on page 74 or thereabout. I might be misremembering so it would be nice to know either way.
 
Just binged the thread and wanted to say it's excellent, just peak stuff Neablis :)

I think our highest priority now that the cults are dealt with should be setting up Denva's research sector. Research is a huge bottleneck and given that focus on a branch is extremely powerful (Just look at the long-term strategic implications of our anti-Chaos developments) it would be incredibly useful to have another research stream out there on our team, even if we'd need to trade or use boons. Denva could even with pretty low research output sweep up things like Miniaturized Anti-Grav and Superconductor Shenanigans* to trade with us and free us up to focus strongly on our priorities. Once their sector develops they'll be able to start pursuing their own priorities and, critically, their own responses to problems.

I admit I'm baffled by our failure to research Immaterium Understanding. It would surely have paid for itself in no time and carries serious additional potential. It's so tasty looking I'm tempted to argue we should pursue it immediately even though we're clearly in need of pursuing other research as soon as we can wrap up the last bricks in our anti-Chaos bulwark.

* Though granted I think the benefits of a strong roll on that one in particular mean we'd want to stack every bonus we can and aim for a crit.
 
Just binged the thread and wanted to say it's excellent, just peak stuff Neablis :)

I think our highest priority now that the cults are dealt with should be setting up Denva's research sector. Research is a huge bottleneck and given that focus on a branch is extremely powerful (Just look at the long-term strategic implications of our anti-Chaos developments) it would be incredibly useful to have another research stream out there on our team, even if we'd need to trade or use boons. Denva could even with pretty low research output sweep up things like Miniaturized Anti-Grav and Superconductor Shenanigans* to trade with us and free us up to focus strongly on our priorities. Once their sector develops they'll be able to start pursuing their own priorities and, critically, their own responses to problems.

I admit I'm baffled by our failure to research Immaterium Understanding. It would surely have paid for itself in no time and carries serious additional potential. It's so tasty looking I'm tempted to argue we should pursue it immediately even though we're clearly in need of pursuing other research as soon as we can wrap up the last bricks in our anti-Chaos bulwark.

* Though granted I think the benefits of a strong roll on that one in particular mean we'd want to stack every bonus we can and aim for a crit.

I and some other voters have been arguing for it for awhile now, but the main argument against it so far has been that we have other things that are more urgent to research. There is also a small group of voters that want to save researching it for later because of the guaranteed level ups for Anexa.

Edit: Also:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlEamQJ-1g

:V
 
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Guaranteed level up I can understand, but urgency not really. We have a small lull, we can use it to further our fundamental understanding of how the world works. This can only help with applied uses, as theoretical science sets the limit for what the applied can achieve, IMO. (Although it doesn't always precede it, I guess?)

Edit: that said, reverse engineering technology of a 60 million old starfaring civilization is probably equally groundbreaking, so maybe studying Necrons and Dark Eldar stuff should take priority too.
 
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I really want to finally get intelligence coding done. More than anything else, creating more AI's is the key to outscaling the numerous threats expanding towards us. Nothing has the potential to increase our research speed like AI. Plus I bet vita's daughters will be extremely cute.
 
Just binged the thread and wanted to say it's excellent, just peak stuff Neablis :)

I think our highest priority now that the cults are dealt with should be setting up Denva's research sector. Research is a huge bottleneck and given that focus on a branch is extremely powerful (Just look at the long-term strategic implications of our anti-Chaos developments) it would be incredibly useful to have another research stream out there on our team, even if we'd need to trade or use boons. Denva could even with pretty low research output sweep up things like Miniaturized Anti-Grav and Superconductor Shenanigans* to trade with us and free us up to focus strongly on our priorities. Once their sector develops they'll be able to start pursuing their own priorities and, critically, their own responses to problems.

I admit I'm baffled by our failure to research Immaterium Understanding. It would surely have paid for itself in no time and carries serious additional potential. It's so tasty looking I'm tempted to argue we should pursue it immediately even though we're clearly in need of pursuing other research as soon as we can wrap up the last bricks in our anti-Chaos bulwark.

* Though granted I think the benefits of a strong roll on that one in particular mean we'd want to stack every bonus we can and aim for a crit.
For a a good while, the hold-up was needing the warp lab—space on the Spark is limited, especially with how much space Bongo's Oubliette takes. And then our BP was also limited, so building a properly shielded one might take ages, which would be especially annoying if we built it somewhere we weren't planning to stay long.

I really want to finally get intelligence coding done. More than anything else, creating more AI's is the key to outscaling the numerous threats expanding towards us. Nothing has the potential to increase our research speed like AI. Plus I bet vita's daughters will be extremely cute.
Do note that just getting Intelligence Coding is probably not enough to make specialised AI. It could take quite a few more researches to get there... and we're in a position where we need to do a lot of things.

Oh, and MSH has a bunch of potential. Just 300 RP for a very good expected value on 2x research turns and even better on 3x.



I've made a whole post on what I think we should research soon and why, as well as a compromise plan that addresses Denva R&D and people's worries re: Candles. It also goes look at the Velkar, because we aren't xenocidal Imperials.
 
Erm. Hmm. 20k? Yeah. 20k.
Wow! Way to ramp your economy Denva. That is fantastic.

To make sure no misses this - the current value of a one time construction boon is 20,000 BP!

Tagging @KyleDaScourge, since you are the only one I've seen using it in a plan so far.

Did you check the others? I thought I got them all.
@Neablis , It looks like all of the others are correct.

Not many, though if the ship had light/medium/heavy boarding defenses they'd automatically come with some level of bots to man those defenses.
That is good to know, but we should still plan to have some reserve bots. Maybe a destroyer with a teleportarium to reinforce any of our own ships that get boarded?
 
Wow! Way to ramp your economy Denva. That is fantastic.

To make sure no misses this - the current value of a one time construction boon is 20,000 BP!

Tagging @KyleDaScourge, since you are the only one I've seen using it in a plan so far.

@Neablis , It looks like all of the others are correct.

That is good to know, but we should still plan to have some reserve bots. Maybe a destroyer with a teleportarium to reinforce any of our own ships that get boarded?
Consider this design. Could make it cheaper by removing the assault shuttles, I guess. It would also make cramming less necessary to getting to Destroyer. The boarding and teleport techs would also help.
 
The Blackest of Secrets - [Canon] New
The Blackest of Secrets

It was a dark night, the foul and unspeakable mysteries of the Ancients once-more crawling across his monitors as he worked. B-43977GAMMA Pic-... Valthor, as he'd chosen to be called for the sake of the lesser minds, was trawling through ancient, dark, unknowable secrets. The sort that haunted men at night, that called upon the most potent and ancestral of cravings, and sang to the blackest and most unholy parts of his shrivelled soul. The clicking and clacking and whirring of mechanical parts that spoke to the alluring nature of the Serpent and Spider crawled across his flesh in their efforts to aid and assist him, the very SOUL of the Machine Spirit leaping like an attack hound on the knowledge he sought.

And finally, after so many months of searching in the dead of night, when all others in his cabal were asleep, he managed to find it! The one great and abominable secret that would unleash the powers of that most glorious of Dark Ages! The crafting was quick and clean, silent and cautious. No one could know of his deeds this night, or he would be forever shamed... And none knew. For as he held his prize aloft, wretched joy filled his heart as he-!

"%VALTHOR! What in the name of Vita herself are you doing up THIS LATE???%" Valthor yelped, his prize dropping onto his head with a squeak before plopping down to the ground with a repeat of it's earlier noise. He stared down at the creation, then over at his Master and adoptive father, Alcinaxx. The older man stared, his mechanical eyes whirring softly as he focus, shifted his vision, wiped the lenses, then refocused. The rubber duck sat on the ground, blankly smiling up at them both, and Valthor found himself beginning to experience severe heating malfunctions in his facial area as the elder Cogitare slowly looked up at him.

"%... I found you making hand-crafted skulls for your collection, you're cleaning the entire family living quarters for a month, and your sister gets your dessert servings for a week. Never trip the parental control sensors this late at night again, and get back to your 'cave of darkness' this instant, young man.%" Alcinaxx sounded exhausted, frustrated, and... mildly amused. Valthor fled the scene of his great crime, a mechadendrite spitting out a shot of webbing that caught on the duc- the ancient evil he had conjured- and yanked it to his arms as he fled the scene of his horrendous crime.

... at least the old man wasn't claiming his lifestyle was 'just a phase' like his old parents had. But it was still seriously uncool to be caught like that! Stupid old man...

Behold. A glimpse into the life of a Goth Boy (He's not, but he heard teenage rebellion was important for developmental growth and has been going through it since before he met Alcinaxx) and his maniacally happy sister, adopted by a Cogitare before Vita arrived out of necessity and trained in their ways, before following him aboard and now getting up to hijinx.

@Prime 2.0 YOUR DESIRE HATH BEEN SATED IN SOME SMALL CAPACITY!!!
 
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Also as memory serves a Navigator can use a Void Abacus to considerably enhance their ability to guide ships traversing the warp (allowing for much farther warp jumps). It is part of why there is a bit of a split among the Navigator houses about how they view the Void Abacus. Many Navigators want to eradicate Void Abaci so as to prevent an alternative, others want to use them to enhance their ability to navigate the warp.
 
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@Neablis Within what Vita can guess at, is there any effective way to convert BP to RP in the tech trees anywhere? We are, obviously, pretty good at mass-producing BP; I'm wanting to see if it's hypothetically possible to start mass-producing RP from that.

I'll give the psykers a shot. Rolling

Edit: Something with a doctor (or a med student if we want them to be young) who is struggling against mutation, not personally but has experienced it and then they come up with this power that is basically the ability to induce personal mutation...

...not feeling it sorry.
Wait until we get a squad of Biomancers, then write a short blurb about how your doc fits in (or doesn't)?

Also, rolling:
Yay a precog!
Very feminine. VERY.
Not the sanest. Eta power.
...I now have the mental image of "Magical Girl Coil-Chan." Can't decide whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Robinton threw 4 6-faced dice. Total: 13
6 6 2 2 2 2 3 3
 
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OK I don't have enough time right now to go digging into the deeper sources, but the Lexicanum has a section on this:

Article:
Besides his ability to steer the vessel from any danger, the Navigator is able to influence the Warp surrounding it,[2f] while able to create small vortexes that may keep them on route, they may as well create whole Warp Storms with their power, use the prescient waters of the Warp to position their ship in an optimal attacking position when forced to battle within the Empyrean or obliterate the trail of their ship confusing those who might track them.[12f] Alternatively if employing a Mimic Engine, they are able to change their trail signature to aid in any potential subterfuge.[31e]


So if anyone has Rogue Trader: Hostile Aquisitions handy the part about the Mimic Engine and Navigators should be on page 74 or thereabout. I might be misremembering so it would be nice to know either way.
But. Why would we care about that? How is creating false trails it the warp, an incredibly specific tool that's probably useful for some kind of ruses, be "the real prize" of Drukhari tech? As opposed to Shadowfield tactical active stealth, the superior power of shadowlances, better weapon batteries, fighters, bombers, and torpedoes, faster and more maneuverable ships, and whatever good stuff they have for smaller scales?
 
Neablis Within what Vita can guess at, is there any effective way to convert BP to RP in the tech trees anywhere? We are, obviously, pretty good at mass-producing BP; I'm wanting to see if it's hypothetically possible to start mass-producing RP from that.

Just going by the mechanics and philosophy post, research is best done by finding and recruiting or creating additional minds to help.

We're already doing the first with Anexa (who has paid off fantastically), the Cogitare (who are starting to get there and seem promising), and Denva (who at least have the population to seem very promising in the long run). We have some cybernetics techs that boost those options further and more available (a lot of current plans include Collab R&D and a lot of people seem interested in Companion Cogitators, if largely as a prereq for other things). We theoretically could combine this with cloning, particularly once we've got warp comms, to just grow our own civilization somewhere as well.

The largest lead though is Intelligence Coding. We're jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to elevate our organic agents and allies to the point that they can meaningfully contribute to Vita's AI-speed research, but we could skip that entirely by building more AIs. It's also explicitly the start of the "boost Vita's personal capabilities" tree, which may include upping her clock speed or what have you to boost research.
 
For some reason I'm vaguely hoping that you go the Big Gun route, then weapons cramming, then build a fleet of destroyers... each armed with a Nova Cannon or better. For the same effort you can probably do other similarly or even more powerful things, but the idea of a fleet of little ships each with one huge honking gun tickles my 40k sense. It's a gimmick, but damn, that's one hell of a gimmick.
...I want this. I want this so bad.

We could just spam destroyers with passive stealth (no cramming cost IIRC) and Nova Cannons. Then when we encounter an enemy that thinks we are an easy prey, dozens of destroyers suddenly become visible in scans with huge energy-spikes as they charge their main guns. Followed by literally-earth-shattering-kabooms as the enemy fleet is blasted to smithereens by word-ending-scale warheads traveling at noticable percentage of light-speed.
 
For some reason I'm vaguely hoping that you go the Big Gun route, then weapons cramming, then build a fleet of destroyers... each armed with a Nova Cannon or better. For the same effort you can probably do other similarly or even more powerful things, but the idea of a fleet of little ships each with one huge honking gun tickles my 40k sense. It's a gimmick, but damn, that's one hell of a gimmick.

We will grant your wish if you give us a tech to allow for space drifting and speakers that work in a vacuum.

Jokes aside this speed tanking is a viable strat, can't hurt what you can't hit.
 
But. Why would we care about that? How is creating false trails it the warp, an incredibly specific tool that's probably useful for some kind of ruses, be "the real prize" of Drukhari tech? As opposed to Shadowfield tactical active stealth, the superior power of shadowlances, better weapon batteries, fighters, bombers, and torpedoes, faster and more maneuverable ships, and whatever good stuff they have for smaller scales?

Because having the ability to create false trails in the warp which is a realm of thought would unlock the ability to shape the warp trough such trails both to create false trails better and to shape the warp on a local level to be more pleasant.
 
We will grant your wish if you give us a tech to allow for space drifting and speakers that work in a vacuum.

Jokes aside this speed tanking is a viable strat, can't hurt what you can't hit.
Hmmmm, psytech idea.

Aetheric Rudder: A psytech component that makes use of Vita's studies of telekinetic psykers to create. It has two uses, the first - during Warp Travel it acts as a stabilizer, increasing the ability of the equipped ship to stay on course and break free of troublesome Warp Currents, shortening travel times. Second - during Real Space transit it allows the equipped ship to move as if it were a water-based ship by essentially creating drag from interacting with the Warp. Also useful for emergency stops.
 
Do we want to put the cultists into stasis or turn them over to Denva?
It'd cost 1k BP to do the stasis, which would mean 1 candle less. Only 5, not 6.

--[] Build stasis chambers for 420 cultists in Aetherion orbit with 32 HP psychic shields. (840 BP + 160 BP = 1000 BP)
 
Just going by the mechanics and philosophy post, research is best done by finding and recruiting or creating additional minds to help.

We're already doing the first with Anexa (who has paid off fantastically), the Cogitare (who are starting to get there and seem promising), and Denva (who at least have the population to seem very promising in the long run). We have some cybernetics techs that boost those options further and more available (a lot of current plans include Collab R&D and a lot of people seem interested in Companion Cogitators, if largely as a prereq for other things). We theoretically could combine this with cloning, particularly once we've got warp comms, to just grow our own civilization somewhere as well.

The largest lead though is Intelligence Coding. We're jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to elevate our organic agents and allies to the point that they can meaningfully contribute to Vita's AI-speed research, but we could skip that entirely by building more AIs. It's also explicitly the start of the "boost Vita's personal capabilities" tree, which may include upping her clock speed or what have you to boost research.
Do note that MSH is twice as good as we originally thought because it adds per action and we tend to do two research actions together.
...I want this. I want this so bad.

We could just spam destroyers with passive stealth (no cramming cost IIRC) and Nova Cannons. Then when we encounter an enemy that thinks we are an easy prey, dozens of destroyers suddenly become visible in scans with huge energy-spikes as they charge their main guns. Followed by literally-earth-shattering-kabooms as the enemy fleet is blasted to smithereens by word-ending-scale warheads traveling at noticable percentage of light-speed.
I am hoping that studying the Drukhari ship will unlock some kind of Stealth Standardisation tech.
I don't see a point to keeping them. So unless someone has a clever idea I say hand them over.
I think they're supposed to be useful for things like Mere Whiff and Epicure (and Understanding Mutations, which iirc we did two turns ago).
 
Because having the ability to create false trails in the warp which is a realm of thought would unlock the ability to shape the warp trough such trails both to create false trails better and to shape the warp on a local level to be more pleasant.
That's taking an incredibly roundabout path to a wild speculative leap. I don't think mimic engines are have any relation to warp terraforming.

Navigators might! The mimic engine is a complete red herring.
 
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