Oh, it certainly has applications.
Applications involving death robots dragging helpless humans into their war-shuttles and flying them off to their sterile, haunted starships.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Applications involving death robots dragging helpless humans into their war-shuttles and flying them off to their sterile, haunted starships.
This observation suggests we might want to repurpose the modular slot on the flagship that's currently housing a medical facility, too. Though I don't know if we can add a regular medbay in a refit, it counts as equipment so by the book probably not.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
A dedicated hospital ship complete with space for human crews for human comfort maybe? If it's so cost efficient to do it as module slot.
The big use case would be supporting an ally fighting a ground war, I suppose, or else dealing with plagues. In the first case you'd want lots of trauma bays and a manufacturing unit for prosthetics, in the second isolation wards and research facilities as well as manufacturing for medications and vaccinations.
You'd probably want a lot of psychic shielding, especially since this would be the vessel most vulnerable to chaos or genestealer infiltrators, so good anti-boarding protections too. Mostly point defenses, otherwise? If most of the lift capacity is coming from the troop ship you don't even really need hangers.
The big use case would be supporting an ally fighting a ground war, I suppose, or else dealing with plagues. In the first case you'd want lots of trauma bays and a manufacturing unit for prosthetics, in the second isolation wards and research facilities as well as manufacturing for medications and vaccinations.
You'd probably want a lot of psychic shielding, especially since this would be the vessel most vulnerable to chaos or genestealer infiltrators, so good anti-boarding protections too. Mostly point defenses, otherwise? If most of the lift capacity is coming from the troop ship you don't even really need hangers.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
Nothing more horrifying like than a robot saying "I will help you to a medical facility" really sets off that institutional terror response.
Anyway so we probably don't have mass food production but cloning should solve that just have a set of frozen samples of grox and grain crops and we can build hydroponics or open farms wherever we need not that we get anything for it but ehh goodwill is goodwill.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
A thought - do we have a tech for better sensors? Like, plain old mundane better sensors?
Oh, and if we want to modify an existing ship design slightly, is that cheaper than making a new ship design?
Oh, and if we want to modify an existing ship design slightly, is that cheaper than making a new ship design?
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JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
This.
What seems to have flown under the radar was how close we got to having the scrapcode generator do to the planet what the Mechanicus was poised to do if the natives ever decided to get uppity.
Yeah, it's cool that Vita managed to prevent it and that she herself was protected enough that it wouldn't have affected her personally, but we avoided a death toll in the billions solely because Vita hovered in that sweet spot of its hatred to be focused on in its attack and not hated quite enough to spitefully destroy the actually important thing she achieved since her awakening.
The scrapcode generator overstayed its welcome. The benefits that poking it brought were nice, but we've probably crossed the tipping point beyond which it's no longer worth the expense and risk.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
We have been developing a solution to this problem. The last time on a Crit from the Scrapcode Generator and a Poor Success from us while opening a direct line to it, it first did 80 hp shield damage to the Spark through the connection and 50 hp damage to its own vault after the connection was cut. While still having enough mojo to corrupt some of our assets.
Now? Our shield already received a small resistance upgrade against the Scrapcode when last researching it, even with the Poor Success. And the current Vault has 200 hp, plus we just researched Nested Shielding. With Neablis having confirmed that we can just wrap the next layer of the Vault on top of the first one. So 400 hp of psychic shielding with slight resistance against the Scrapcode, if I've understood correctly. And a couple of defense satellites hanging nearby with some minimum psychic shielding to blast it apart if it seems like it is breaking through again.
And now we have critted in our studies about the Immaterium. Which means that Vita should have a lot better understanding about what exactly she is poking, and to where its theoretical capabilities can potentially reach.
So while bad things can still happen with bad rolls... We can actually completely nullify, or at the very least considerably mitigate those consequences most of the time. If we pay them beforehand with safety measures costing us research time and industrial output. And, well, if our opponent is also energy-starved, immobile and caged. I wouldn't want to try the same against anything with more power and/or freedom to act, which is exactly why I want to squeeze as much information as feasible out of the Scrapcode Generator before we destroy it.
*comically missing the point*Akshua-lly a Chaos entity would not attempt to kill the population though something as crude as orbital bombardment, it would be a waste of souls for their dark master(s).
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
The only reason I use bongo is it causes the autocorrupt less issues than scrapcode
Anyway I do like that heavy cruiser design for planetary invasion iy might be idea putting a heavy teleporter in just for the utility of it in space combat on the other hand it might be better to build a purpose focused boarding ship instead once we get the tech.
Anyway I do like that heavy cruiser design for planetary invasion iy might be idea putting a heavy teleporter in just for the utility of it in space combat on the other hand it might be better to build a purpose focused boarding ship instead once we get the tech.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
"Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."
Just because we know what it can do at the moment doesn't mean that there isn't a chance either a daemon, or one of the four, decides to juice it up just enough to punch clean through our shields. We're playing with a radioactive source that might decide to go critical at any point.
JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
It's also...okay, so we're now prepared to tank the last time the scrapcode generator critted, yeah. But I'm getting the impression it's also quietly ramping up its own efforts, and because it clearly has a connection out of its confinement - it is getting power from the Warp, after all - it can just do that.
There's a chance it'll get more substantial backing as soon as Vita becomes relevant on an interstellar scale, and then we're stuck with a very obvious exploitable backdoor right at the heart of our operation and there's already one example in the galaxy where that kind of situation is a huge problem.
There's a chance it'll get more substantial backing as soon as Vita becomes relevant on an interstellar scale, and then we're stuck with a very obvious exploitable backdoor right at the heart of our operation and there's already one example in the galaxy where that kind of situation is a huge problem.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
Oh full agreement if it was up to me bongo would be finished with it's sun bath before the first OMC operation was being planned hell I spent multiple posts freaking the fuck out over OMC being handed out qbecause my subconscious had already understood that bongo would be able to abuse the networking of OMC to spread chaos to thousands of civilians.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Possible, but it is still a risk I'm willing to take. Because there is a Daemon World nearby. Which means that chaotic activity is a problem we will be hard pressed to run away from. And I paradoxically don't feel safe in researching shielding methods without a sample like this, because it is considerably slower and likely will yield somewhat lesser results. Which in turn is bad, because there is also other threats than just Chaos nearby.
We already have a confirmation IC about an awakened Necron Tomb World, which will requires a directly opposite kind of technological counters if we come into conflict with them. And one of the character creation choices we picked was a Tyranid Splinter Fleet. So we will almost certainly require counters against them too, sooner or later.
Perfect safety is an illusion which should be discarded. Which is why I believe that measured risk-taking is the best path forward.
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- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
Yeah, the scrapcode generator gives us a way to research chaos for now but only in scrapcode. This is just chaos undivided, we'll also need to research the other four when it's time to develop counters for them.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Could be. But we can't know for certain until we encounter them. But I would say that this is our best path forward to also different threats than the Scrapcode:
Based on wording, we likely have to roll good or crit results to get shields we can tune against "specific entities." Combined with Nested Psychic Shielding and probably some follow-up tech? We could have shields with generalized defenses as well as counters to whatever we happen to facing currently, if it something that the psychic shields can counter in the first place. Alternative Shielding Meanings will probably also synergize well with being able to layer them on top of each other, but I'm hoping we will be getting discounts to it first from elsewhere.
Anyway, Efficient Psychic Shielding and Scrapcode-Resistant Psychic Shielding on top of what we already have will most likely be good enough for a while. This way we won't have to pay through our nose every time the shielding is damaged (and be able to slap it onto more things in the first place), and our greatest existential threat that we currently know about is mitigated.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
That sounds more like a long-term investment. Putting all those resources into the scrapcode generator means we'll need to do alot of research to see if the BP was worth it in the end.
Proposed Design List
New
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
- unresearched ship blueprints
- unresearched void installations
- unresearched ground installations
- unresearched units
- unresearched trade goods
So I want to make things a bit easier on @Neablis and everyone for keeping track of posted blueprints if you post a design give me a shout and I'll copy it here I'll only update it when I'm at home on my computer though so don't be surprised if it takes ages I'll do my best to get it done before I go to bed
also regarding spaceship designs please for the sake of space and ease of copying use
(Basic System Monitor) Destroyer chassis. Base BP 350 (1500x300 meters) Engines: 7 gravities for 100 BP. Light Shields for 50 BP. Medium armor for 100 BP. 2x Light Macrocannon batteries for 200 bp, 1x Light Lance battery for 100 bp, High maneuverability thrusters for (1/10 base, round up to nearest 50 =) 50 bp.
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- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It was one post so it's easy to miss, but I ran numbers showing that Bongo has been dramatically worth it so far even if you ignore tech unlocks and narrative benefits completely. Even with the breakout, BP costs have been a minority of bongo-specific investment.
Ultimately, the key is that most of our spending related to bongo is actually just a shift in build order for things we wanted or needed to get regardless. I've previously argued that Efficient Shielding is in the latter category to make psy shielding feasible for Denva Secondus to deploy at a scale that matters, for example - in the build order we look to be taking, it's almost completely irrelevant to him, we're almost entirely going to be getting it when we do so Secondus can have it.
After the next turn though, it reduces the upkeep for all of our psy shielding - which, combined with our repair bay providing a free 1000BP, makes construction-based maintenance a non-issue if we choose to shlep the scrapcode generator to a black hole to make sure it can never tell anyone about our tech or come back from the warp later. But when all bongo-related construction and repair costs in total across the entire quest have amounted to less than half an action's worth of BP? That's almost a non-factor for our immediate decisionmaking.
The real value of efficient shielding for us, as it is for Secondus, is the ability to put psy shielding on way more things as a matter of course. And that's something we'd want even if we'd never rolled Bongo as part of our loot.
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- Location
- Boston
I wrote it to support both, since medical bays are so cheap I just tossed some in. But that brings me to a question...
@Neablis, I went to design a hospital ship and realized that there is currently no limit to the number of medical bays or troop compartments we can cram into a ship. So, reductio ad absurdum we could make a destroyer that could hold 10 million injured under the current rules which seems... silly (yes, I realize this would be insanely expensive). I suggest increasing the cost of troop and medical bays slightly (50 BP each?) and moving them to combat equipment so they count for cramming. Alternatively we could just set a limit for troop + medical bays equal to hull / 1,000. Thoughts?
@michaell8000, Love the idea of a library of unresearched designs. Certainly makes more sense than each of us keeping word documents. Here are all of my designs in the clean format (including the troopship).
Prospector Factory Ship (1,350 BP, 50 CP), Destroyer, 50 RP, 50 CP, Hull: 500 BP, 1600x400 meters, Engines: 6 gravities for 50 BP, Shields: light for 50, Armor: light for 50, Warp Drive (50 BP), Void Abacus (50 BP), Psychic Shielding (100 BP), Manufactory (500 BP) Generates 50 VBP (100 with Large Void Installations)
Assembler Factory Ship (2,925 BP), Frigate, 100 RP, 100 CP, Hull 1000 BP, 2200x600 meters, Engines: 7 gravities for 225 BP, Shields: medium for 150 BP, Armor: medium for 150 BP, Warp Drive (100 BP), Void Abacus (100 BP), Psychic Shielding (200 BP), Manufactory (1,000 BP)
Fabricator Factory Ship (5,600 bp), Light Cruiser, 150 RP, 200 CP, Base Hull 2000 BP, 4400x800 meters, Engines: 5 gravities for 300 BP, Shields: medium for 300 bp, Armor: medium for 200 bp, Warp Drive (200 BP), Void Abacus (200 BP), Psychic Shielding (400 BP), Manufactory (1800 BP), Light Lances (100 BP), 2x Point Defense (100 BP).
Foundry Factory Ship (15,625 BP), Heavy Cruiser, 200 RP, 300 CP, Hull 6000 BP, 6000x1200 meters, Engines: 3 gravities for 400 BP, Shields: medium for 400, Armor: medium for 400, Warp Drive (600 BP), Void Abacus (600 BP), Psychic Shielding (1200 BP), Troop compartment (25 BP), Manufactory (5000 BP), Repair Bay (400 BP), 2x Light Lances (200 BP), 2x Shuttles (200 BP, 100 CP, 1000 Lift Capacity), 4x Point Defense (200 BP)
Veles mk II – Scout/Light Escort (1,650 VBP, 50 CP) Destroyer, 50 RP, 1500x300 meters. 8 gravities of acceleration. Medium armor, Medium Shields. Warp Drive, Void Abacus, Psychic Shields. 2 Light Macrocannon batteries, 1 medium lance battery, 2 Point Defense Battery. High-maneuverability thrusters.
Dauntless (Imperial Design) – (4,300 BP), Light Cruiser, 150 RP, 200 CP, Hull 1500 BP, 4500x500 meters, Engines: 5 gravities for 300 BP, Shields: light for 150, Armor: medium for 200, Warp Drive (150 BP), Psychic Shielding (300 BP), Troop compartment (25 BP), Medical bay (25 BP), 6x Light Macrocannons (600 BP), 3x Point Defense (150 BP), 1x Heavy Lances (400 BP), High-maneuverability thrusters (150 BP),Alloyed Armor (200 BP), Light Boarding preparations (100 BP)
Lunar (Imperial Design) – 9,750 BP, Heavy Cruiser, 200 RP, 300 CP, Hull: 3,740 BP, 5000 x 800 meters, Engines: 3 gravities for 400 BP, Shields: medium for 400 BP, Armor: medium for 400 BP, Psychic Shielding (750 BP), Troop compartment (25 BP), Medical bay (25 BP). 4x Medium Macrocannons (800 BP), 4x Medium Lances (800 BP), 6x Medium Torpedoes (1,800 BP), 4x Point Defense (200 BP), Alloyed Armor (400 BP), Light Boarding preparations (100 BP)
Punisher Assault Cruiser (14,850 BP), Heavy Cruiser, 200 RP, 300 CP, Hull 6000 BP, 6000x1200 meters, Engines: 4 gravities for 500 BP, Shields: medium for 400, Armor: medium for 400, Psychic Shielding (1200 BP), Troop compartment (25 BP), Medical bay (25 BP), 2x Heavy Plasma Cannon (2000 BP), Heavy Melta cannon (800 BP), 6x Point Defense (6x 50 = 300 BP). High-maneuverability thrusters (600 BP), Tuned Shields (400 BP), Alloyed Armor (400 BP), Medium Boarding preparations (600 BP), Heavy Machine Spirit Jammers (1200 BP)
Dominator Troop Ship – (16,300 BP, 2,300 CP), Heavy Cruiser, 200 RP, 300 CP, Hull: 6000 BP, 6000x1200 meters, Engines: 4 gravities for 500 BP, Shields: medium for 400, Armor: medium for 400, Warp Drive (600 BP), Abacus (600 BP), Psychic Shielding (1200 BP), 10xTroop compartment (250 BP, 100,000 soldiers or 5,000 medium tanks), 2xMedical bay (50 BP, treat 2000 moderately injured people at once), Manufactory (500 BP) generates 100 VBP, Repair Bay (500 BP), 2x Light Lances (200 BP), 20x Fighters (2,000 BP, 1,000 CP), 20x Assault Shuttles (3,000 BP, 1,000 CP, 20,000 troops), 6x Point Defense (300 BP).
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Its supposed to have 14... I might have missed the first number for them, though?
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
Either way, that'll need to be fixed
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
thanks, I was working through it myself on a Word doc but it's a bit of a slog still that is all the blueprints are simplified so hopefully it helps with future votes in deciding which blueprints to research also a solid reminder to all that all these ship designs RP costs would be halved with Streamlined ship design (150 RP).
Edit also for future reference please make sure that psy shield has BP cost attached I can get the numbers for the rest but I have to calculate psy shield if it's not written down you missed it for the Veles mk II – Scout/Light Escort.
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- Location
- Somewhere, probably Earth
The long and short of it is that Chaos is the biggest threat to Vita we are likely to face for RL months of questing. It's one we absolutely, ABSOLUTELY need to defend against somehow. Our options are as follows:
A) Prepare subpar defenses while avoiding contact as much as possible, including cutting off all current possible vectors of infection (read: Bongo).
B) Take the risks of minor, hopefully controlled exposure in hopes of building up defenses and resistances to infection, containing warp phenomena as best we can when possible for the purposes of study.
I do not believe we will be able to avoid major, uncontrolled exposure to Warp influences for a long enough period of time for A to produce viable results. There's a Demon World literally right there. We need working defenses, ones we can rely on in a pinch.
A) Prepare subpar defenses while avoiding contact as much as possible, including cutting off all current possible vectors of infection (read: Bongo).
B) Take the risks of minor, hopefully controlled exposure in hopes of building up defenses and resistances to infection, containing warp phenomena as best we can when possible for the purposes of study.
I do not believe we will be able to avoid major, uncontrolled exposure to Warp influences for a long enough period of time for A to produce viable results. There's a Demon World literally right there. We need working defenses, ones we can rely on in a pinch.