Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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Neablis said:
With your recent improvements to design it would only cost 25 RP to do that - integrate both personal shields and void shields into heavy bots.
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Nightlord256 said:
Thanks for the clarification. That unfortunately leaves us 13 RP short.

I think the tech is more important than the squad, but I'll ponder and follow up after work.
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Good news in that it would be 50 RP without our Machine Spirit Design halving the cost (EDIT: like Neablis already said in the post I quoted, but I'm blind and missed it). So there is that.

Also, a suggestion for the name for the new design @Nightlord256, if you want to use it. Talos. Quoting wikipedia: "A man of bronze who protected Crete from pirates and invaders."
redpotato4 said:
Could replace Squad Tactics with MS Chaos Resistance. Would still be helpful in this scenario, and it's required for MS Psychic Shielding, which would be nice if that can self-repair psychic shields.
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Might not be a bad idea. Squad Tactics aren't probably needed here, against this level of opposition. MS Chaos Resistance costs 100 RP and the new bot design 25 RP, so 38 RP leftover. In the current plan, this finishes Basic Active Stealth and rest goes to MS Hallucinations.
 
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The Froggy Ninja said:
Yes? That's why I mentioned after investing significantly more into Gellar, Psy-Shield and general warp research first. I meant more as a long term goal. And honestly, more people have gone into the Eye of Terror and survived than have invaded Commorragh and come back. Though admittedly, I am curious how Commoragh looks a century or two after the Great Rift and the ensuing Drukhari Civil War.
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Friend, this is the thing we do after we've automated and control and entire sector. IE: 50-100 turns down the road, not something we're going to do within any reasonable timeframe.
 
[X] Plan: Immediate Relief efforts

[X] Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the transport ship

[X] Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the loot, transport ship later

[X] Plan: Humanitarian Triage v3
 
[X] Plan: Immediate Relief efforts

[X] Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the transport ship

[X] Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the loot, transport ship later

[X] Plan: Humanitarian Triage v3
 
Neablis said:
Oh, I see. Actually, good point. You can basically just weld a void shield amulet on a combat bot and call it a day - but you can't do that with psychic shields. Those need to be integrated.
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Ahh, thanks for the clarification and thanks for the idea @LightLan.

With that in mind I will stick to the smallest edit for my plan and adjust the elite bots to have just void shields.

Edit: plan updated
 
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[x] Plan: Something Hinky is afoot, let's kick its shin

Can't believe I'm voting for this, but every other plan is worse as far as I am able/willing to tell.
 
KyleDaScourge said:
...Can you elaborate on your disagreement at least, rather than just saying they all suck?
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Plan: Something Hinky is afoot, let's kick its shin is doing the bare minimum of what needs to be done to interact in this system with its research and then just throws a single squad into taking the ship which is presumptuous at best.

Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the loot, transport ship later opts for a raid on the stations themselves, blasting the useless Chaos tainted ones, redistribution and taking over the ship as stretch goals while researching a lot of psychic shielding tech and training Cia up. Its better right? Wrong. We don't know what we are dealing with here, Chaos actually thrives on losing low level chaff as a means of powering itself up and there are no Cognition Filters being developed here to stem long term Corruption. This is a high risk high reward plan and I honestly don't like the amount of risk.

Plan some chatoic clean up is just plain worse in everything than the previous plan while still going for the same general set of actions.

Plan: Seeds, Seeds, and Seeds forgot that personal shielding is needed for our bots to not just succumb to corruption.

Plan: Kick Chaos in the shins, grab the transport ship is just a worse version of Plan: Something Hinky is afoot, let's kick its shin which means it is below the bare minimum needed to interact with this system.

Plan we will be back just jumps out of this system which is a hard no for me.

Plan: Humanitarian Triage v3 is something I would vote for next turn.

Plan: Immediate Relief efforts is basically drunk. Like how is a lack of mechanized agriculture or cognition filters in any way conductive to relief that is immediate? And on top of that this plan does no construction so that relief can be done.

Plan getting Cia ready to kick the door in is planning on doing things next turn which is not acceptable in this situation.

Plan: Giving Aid, Kicking Ass is at least going in the same general direction as Plan: Something Hinky is afoot, let's kick its shin but then for some reason spends RP on shipboard machine spirits.

Fix a ship, feed (some of) a system forgot the cognition filters.

That's it.
 
Dmol8 said:
Plan: Something Hinky is afoot, let's kick its shin is doing the bare minimum of what needs to be done to interact in this system with its research and then just throws a single squad into taking the ship which is presumptuous at best.
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You've slightly misunderstood the troop allocations there Dmol8 the shielded bots are just Cia's bodyguard squad as shown here:
Nightlord256 said:
Orders/Diplomacy: Get the transport ship under your control by diplomacy or violence (or a combination). Try to get the people on the transport ship to surrender. Send troops against anyone not willing to surrender. Send bots in the first wave, but let Cia go with the second wave of bots so she can get some experience in. Find out who could be propped up against chaos with the information gained from the transport ship, iconoclasts highly preferred, imperials willing to learn might have to suffice. Cause you won't stay here forever. The goal is to only prop them up enough against chaos, not nearly as much as the Denvans, especially if besides chaos there are only hardcore imperialists left.
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it won't be just one squad but waves of bots with Cia in the second wave.
 
Rule 3: Be Civil
@Dmol8 Hard to see your arguments in a good light when you're so negative. Nothing but bad decisions and hardly any suggestions for improvements.
 
Dmol8 said:
Plan: Seeds, Seeds, and Seeds forgot that personal shielding is needed for our bots to not just succumb to corruption.
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This isn't true, though. Most Imperium tech doesn't get corrupted when used against Chaos, and our bots have machine spirits.

They can be corrupted, certainly, and (lacking shields or tripwires) might require some work to fully sanitize after (short of a general purge, which is an option with how cheap they are.)

I mean, we took on Bongo successfully with unshielded bots! These people probably have less specifically counter-tech assets.


Also, we cannot actually add shields to our existing bots, or at least would need a construction project to refit, AIUI.
 
We should probably get around to Alternative Shield Meanings soon. It's required for Warp communication (very important), and it means that psychic shields might be used for offense not defense.
 
Aineko said:
I mean, we took on Bongo successfully with unshielded bots! These people probably have less specifically counter-tech assets.
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I would like to second this point. A dedicated scrap code generator could not prevent a force of first gen heavy bots from rolling it up.

Our tech research is definitely differences of degree, not keys to binary win/lose games.
 
Nightlord256 said:
Ahh, thanks for the clarification and thanks for the idea @LightLan.

With that in mind I will stick to the smallest edit for my plan and adjust the elite bots to have just void shields.

Edit: plan updated
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With the psychic shields removed from the body guards I would recommend doing the machine spirit chaos resistance + machine spirit controlled psychic shield combo in place of ground tactics. This will give all our bots improved chaos resistance, and it will buff Cia's personal shield as well.

I think we can probably get more than 10 bots with void shields, but I'm sure Neablis will just fill out our ranks with the spare BP.
 
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Dmol8 said:
Plan: Immediate Relief efforts is basically drunk. Like how is a lack of mechanized agriculture or cognition filters in any way conductive to relief that is immediate? And on top of that this plan does no construction so that relief can be done.
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We're not going to be able to do any long term relief without going back to Denva and mustering additional resources. So, my plan focuses on immediate relief efforts - quick repairs, quick supplies, shooting the worst offenders, etc. After that, do a bunch of research so we can get warp comms, necessary to muster the long term relief efforts necessary to actually fix the system. And also progresses towards wrapping up Bongo, so we have one less loose end.

Like, there are 8 million people here, a large portion of them chaos cultists, scattered over hundreds of stations. We can't sort that out ourselves in anything less than like, 2 decades, even if we dedicate all our actions to it. But we could sort it out in about that same time frame if we go back to Denva, cash in our check for industrial resources, and start scaling there, then come back with a relief fleet, while also being able to do a bunch of other stuff. Which is a much better way to go about things, IMO.
 
@Neablis I've been meaning to ask since the description of the repair bays says it can be used on friendly ships would it be too much of a stretch for it to be useable in fixing the stations and ship in this system?
 
F0lkL0re said:
@Neablis I've been meaning to ask since the description of the repair bays says it can be used on friendly ships would it be too much of a stretch for it to be useable in fixing the stations and ship in this system?
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...That's a good point, actually. Not that it makes a huge difference - our repair bay is 1000 BP, and the stations are 250 BP each, over like, hundreds of stations. So, repairing a free 4 stations per turn is relatively minor. It could save us some time if we were doing an industrial buildout, but again, we shouldn't do that, this system is still not a great place for building industrial capacity.
 
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F0lkL0re said:
Uummm:

I think you might want to take a second look there.
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I dropped a zero on accident. My point still stands though, 4 stations per turn is really not very many.

Neablis said:
There's so much suffering in this galaxy already. If I start taking responsibility for the plight of anybody I run into, then it'll crush me, and prevent me from doing everything I can to actually force the kind of long-lasting change that matters.
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To quote from the post though - we can't afford to get trapped her long term right now. Hell, Wayfarer probably won't *let* us, it'll send us packing when we're halfway through.
 
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