Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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MrRobot said:
That can be asking a bit much from the imperial desings.
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I'm not so certain, as they've got a tendency to record stuff on paper, parchment or vellum. Depending on the scribes aboard the ship, and how it was stored, we might have a treasure trove of information about this and surrounding systems.
 
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If the ship diplomacy/raid goes well, it could turn out well but I'm willing to bet there will be another roll concerning that.
 
Angle said:
That's what normal machine spirits are, albeit in an extremely primitive and limited version.
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My understanding is that normal machine spirits are bio computers installed into machines, which may or may not induce a warp presence, but definitely induces a greater resistance to warp influence. I'm talking about basically creating bespoke daemonengines but not daemons because we created the spirit ourselves without Chaotic influence.

As an aside, do we know how our psy-shielding compares to the defenses of people who actually know what they're doing? Like Hexagramic Wards or if it would be useful for Eldar. We'd probably need to crack self repair and tuning for Eldar since the Thirst is probably a constant assault rather than the bursts our current "tank hits, then repair" system is good at dealing with.
 
@Neablis Just to be sure I'm understanding what I'm seeing in the research informational, would we need Large-scale Machine spirits before we could design and build a machine spirit shipyard, some other technology, or do we not even know yet?

Additionally, would it be possible to design an Even Smaller Shipyard with a single ship construction slot for destroyers and tiny monitors, and a machine spirit version once we figure that part out?

Last question, the Vorthryn system discount on Deep Space Manufactories also applies to the machine spirit version, yes?
 
KyleDaScourge said:
@Neablis Just to be sure I'm understanding what I'm seeing in the research informational, would we need Large-scale Machine spirits before we could design and build a machine spirit shipyard, some other technology, or do we not even know yet?

Additionally, would it be possible to design an Even Smaller Shipyard with a single ship construction slot for destroyers and tiny monitors, and a machine spirit version once we figure that part out?

Last question, the Vorthryn system discount on Deep Space Manufactories also applies to the machine spirit version, yes?
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We'll first need "Basic Automated Manufactories" (nope, my bad. Just if we want it fully automated) for that, then likely "Large-scale Machine spirits." You're quite right in that we likely need more tech down that line.
Made a google docs document with the fluff scaled back that I'm occasionally working on.
 
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So this is definitely something we're going to want Reliable Gellar Fields and several more tiers of Psy-Shields but what are y'all's thoughts on raiding the Crone Worlds? The Eldar do it semi-regularly and while they have better warp lore than us, they also have a back door directly into their souls. It would be good practice for any potential Isha breakout and could get us a lot of valuable samples and research data.

Speaking of samples, @Neablis, did any of the Deldar gear we looted contain Wraithbone for our Psychic Materials research?
 
Once all of our assets have chaos-resistant machine-spirit controlled improved-efficiency self-repairing encrypted psychic shields, everyone has the two-or-three techs deeper version of the cognition filter, we've got enough of the AI tech to both somewhat protect ourselves in real-time and leave a full backup somewhere safe...

Then I would feel comfortable trying to look for the least belligerent Eldar we can find to discuss the possibility of maybe putting together some kind of expedition to the Crone Worlds.

EDIT - Also, I'd strongly advise building the warp research lab and getting Immaterium Understanding... Also definitely Reliable Gellar Fields and preferably whatever Even More Reliable Gellar Fields tech is behind that, if there is one... Faith is my shield would likely be helpful once we've implemented our own good religion... and Warp Weather Prediction to try and dodge any storms.
 
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Nightlord256 said:
Thanks for the very detailed answers @Neablis!

I've switched my plan around to taking over the transport ship, copying LightLan's action for doing so. I think getting the tactics upgrade will be important for our bots in the tight areas of the ship. Since there is Chaos in the system I want Cognito Filters for Vita and her Crew, much better to get this in place before someone sees something unfortunate.

[x] Plan: Something Hinky is afoot, let's kick its shin
-[X] [Free] Fix damage to psychic shields. Vita Core (75/135->135/135 @ 300 BP), Bongo Oubliette (303/540->443/540 @ 700 BP) [1000/1000BP repair bay expended, 485BP of damage left]
-[x] Research 2x (400 + 70 + 42)
--[x] Machine Spirit Ground Tactics (150 RP)
--[x] Personal-sized Psychic shielding (100 RP)
--[x] Cognito Filters (250 RP)
---[x] Anexa Assists
--[x] Overflow to Basic Active Stealth then Machine Spirit Hallucinations
-[x] Construction
--[x] Build Personal Psychic Shields for all Crew
--[x] Build an elite squad of 10 Heavy machine spirit humanoid bots with both Void and Psychic Shields
---[x]This will be assigned to Cia as bodyguards
--[x] Remaining BP spent on mission gear / repairs to the transport as needed.
-[x] Orders/Diplomacy: Get the transport ship under your control by diplomacy or violence (or a combination). Try to get the people on the transport ship to surrender. Send troops against anyone not willing to surrender. Send bots in the first wave, but let Cia go with the second wave of bots so she can get some experience in. Find out who could be propped up against chaos with the information gained from the transport ship, iconoclasts highly preferred, imperials willing to learn might have to suffice. Cause you won't stay here forever. The goal is to only prop them up enough against chaos, not nearly as much as the Denvans, especially if besides chaos there are only hardcore imperialists left.
--[x] Victan and Cia assigned
--[x] Stretch Goal: After we take control of the transport ship use the psy shielding of the elite squad to sweep for chaos.

@LightLan, your plan researches Personal Psychic Shielding but doesn't have a construction action to build it. Are you hoping the research will yield a prototype for Cia?
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@Nightlord256 apologies for being late on this, but there's a small issue here. You need to design shield & void-shield-integrated bots before you can build them - unlike machine-spirit jamming gear those elements needs to be integrated into the structure of the bots.

With your recent improvements to design it would only cost 25 RP to do that - integrate both personal shields and void shields into heavy bots.

The Froggy Ninja said:
Speaking of samples, @Neablis, did any of the Deldar gear we looted contain Wraithbone for our Psychic Materials research?
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Not in significant or large enough pieces to really get a sense of the material. Besides, Deldar don't really use wraithbone much.

KyleDaScourge said:
@Neablis Just to be sure I'm understanding what I'm seeing in the research informational, would we need Large-scale Machine spirits before we could design and build a machine spirit shipyard, some other technology, or do we not even know yet?

Additionally, would it be possible to design an Even Smaller Shipyard with a single ship construction slot for destroyers and tiny monitors, and a machine spirit version once we figure that part out?

Last question, the Vorthryn system discount on Deep Space Manufactories also applies to the machine spirit version, yes?
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1. Yes.
2. Yeah, if you wanted to. I'd probably call it the "tiny" shipyard and it'd cost 25 RP to design.
3. Yes.


Also - general announcement that the vote is going to close in ~28 hours.
 
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Neablis said:
@Nightlord256 apologies for being late on this, but there's a small issue here. You need to design shield & void-shield-integrated bots before you can build them - unlike machine-spirit jamming gear those elements needs to be integrated into the structure of the bots.

With your recent improvements to design it would only cost 25 RP to do that - integrate both personal shields and void shields into heavy bots.
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Hm. We only have 12 RP left over.

Can we build/give some of our existing bots 10 void shields, the normal ones we got for our Crew?
I suspect those won't be as good as integrated ones, but they should be a nice stop-gap until we manage to scrape the RP for a design together.
 
We don't have nearly the force or tech to mess with daemon worlds now, but it'll be on the list later, have no doubt. For example, Medrengard is a good fit for a high-level boss encounter and the heart of the Chaotic war machine. Destroying it won't be as simple as exterminatus, either.

Plus, Chaos likes to steal shit if they can't use it or destroy it. There's treasure in the Eye and the Maelstrom beyond fresh soul stones.
 
I'd be more worried about the Daemon World(s) inside the sector than outside it, not to mention the awakened Necrons, Tyranid splinter fleet, and who knows what other factions might be knocking on our door.
 
redpotato4 said:
I'd be more worried about the Daemon World(s) inside the sector than outside it, not to mention the awakened Necrons, Tyranid splinter fleet, and who knows what other factions might be knocking on our door.
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My medium term plan for this is to get Denva the full suite of manufacturing, psychic shielding, machine-spirit integration, and organic-machine control technologies. This should combine with void abaci and improved gellar fields to let them bootstrap their industry and compete with the larger factions by turning out fleets of comparable ships with vastly reduced crew complements, fighter swarms and possibly even fleets controlled remotely from heavily protected and screened carriers, and ground armies of thousands of robotic troops controlled by a handful of officers in orbit.
 
Nightlord256 said:
Thanks for the clarification. That unfortunately leaves us 13 RP short.

I think the tech is more important than the squad, but I'll ponder and follow up after work.
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Or we could not quite finish Basic Active Stealth as it isn't like its gonna get used this turn, and free up 13RP to do the design as it is gonna get used this turn

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Ye, or as redpotato says swap Squad Tactics for Chaos Resist, as while tactics are nice it just means we lose less of our frankly expendable bots, vs boosting the chaos resist of bots when we're putting a bunch of bots around an unsanctioned psyker, otherwise known as an easier way for Chaos to get in than most other places nearby
 
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[X] Plan: Humanitarian Triage v3
-[X] [Free] Fix damage to psychic shields. Vita Core (75/135->135/135 @ 300 BP), Bongo Oubliette (303/540->443/540 @ 700 BP) [1000/1000BP repair bay expended, 485BP of damage left]
-[X] Orders: Take control of the transport's route and stop it from continuing to dock with inhabited stations, either by hacking, hijacking, or disabling and towing into a new orbit. Be as gentle about this as possible, with a secondary goal of keeping the ship intact for later study.
-[X] Construction: Begin construction of a Machine Spirit Deep Space Manufactory.
-[X] Research x2 (400 RP + 70 Anexa RP + 42 Tech-Priest RP)
--[X] Mechanized agriculture (150 RP)
--[X] Remote Organic-Machine control (50 RP)
--[X] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (100 RP)
---[X] Anexa assist
--[X] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[X] Psychic Encryption (150 RP)
--[X] Basic Active Stealth (22->34/75 RP)
-[X] Anexa active Action: Research
-[X] Victan active action: Study the reactions to us kicking over the anthill, find out which stations are in the worst shape based on information from the ship, try to determine if anyone could be trusted to act towards helping the entire system given the absolute minimum technological help to do so or if we need to appoint some of our tech-priests or go get some Denvans.
-[X] Cia Active Psyker improvement

Everything I said when I first put this plan up a few days ago still holds true.

Additionally...

Firstly, this plan acts immediately to to stop the largest ongoing source of active conflict and easily preventable death in the system. The followup next turn will probably be to do something about the obvious chaos stations. The turn after that, maybe begin actually contacting the system at large and setting things up to begin prioritizing and distributing actual aid.

Secondly, it begins establishing a local industrial base, to be used both as an actual production base and for humanitarian aid towards the surviving stations. The first Machine Spirit Deep Space Manufactory would go online next turn. Per the QM, in this system they are 25% more productive and cost half as much because you'll be repurposing abandoned Imperial mining stations. That will be true up to about 1500 of them. That makes this system the perfect place to begin developing an industrial hub. So a Machine Spirit Deep Space Manufactory costs 450 BP and produces 125 at the cost of 20 CP to run. Once this first manufactory is finished next turn, we'll have 475 BP per action, enough to build another manufactory and have some left over. The goal will be to spend three turns in this system and then leave as many Cogitare here as are willing to volunteer in command of a manufacturing base and tiny shipyard to begin building up the system and saving the locals while we run back to Denva.

Thirdly, it focuses our research on what I feel are the most immediately useful options for chaos resistance, which are making our machine spirits more inherently resistant, putting them in control of the shields, and making the shields opaque to scrying. I am extremely interested in self-repairing shields being unlocked by one of the techs currently hidden behind Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields, as it seems like the option to distribute notably strong scry-resistant psychic shields that don't rely on having a handy industrial base with the ability to manufacture them nearby to repair the slightest scratch elevates our shields from something that can protect us personally up to something which we should hand out to everyone we can as a weapon against Chaos. The other portion of the research goes into mechanized agriculture and another layer of organic-machine control.

The next few turns will aim to fully flesh out the OMC tree and the "Build Machine Spirits into things" tree, which combine into a massive force multiplier for our organic agents and allies. Being able to give Denva designs for machine-spirit integrated agriculture, industry, shipyards, ships, and ground forces along with the full suite of OMC technology to make use of it and psychic shields to ward off the ruinous powers will let them quickly bootstrap themselves into an ally that can compete with the large factions in the neighborhood. It will also turn the Cogitare into a true asset and give them everything they need to begin establishing themselves as a true competitor to the Mechanicus.
 
Asheram said:
Lol no. You'd have an easier time convincing folk to invade Commorragh than invading obviously daemon-infested worlds. We're a very, very small fish so far.
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Yes? That's why I mentioned after investing significantly more into Gellar, Psy-Shield and general warp research first. I meant more as a long term goal. And honestly, more people have gone into the Eye of Terror and survived than have invaded Commorragh and come back. Though admittedly, I am curious how Commoragh looks a century or two after the Great Rift and the ensuing Drukhari Civil War.

@Neablis, is it possible to upgrade our hardware, or are we too delicate to go fiddling around with our substrate while it's running us? Or is all that just locked behind the AI research we've yet to touch?
 
LightLan said:
Can we build/give some of our existing bots 10 void shields, the normal ones we got for our Crew?
I suspect those won't be as good as integrated ones, but they should be a nice stop-gap until we manage to scrape the RP for a design together.
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Oh, I see. Actually, good point. You can basically just weld a void shield amulet on a combat bot and call it a day - but you can't do that with psychic shields. Those need to be integrated.

@Nightlord256 Want to make sure you see this answer.

The Froggy Ninja said:
@Neablis, is it possible to upgrade our hardware, or are we too delicate to go fiddling around with our substrate while it's running us? Or is all that just locked behind the AI research we've yet to touch?
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Locked behind the AI research. You've gotten some of the benefits of that by doing the machine spirit tech, but I was originally intending some of those improvements to be behind that door.

And announcement that voting is probably going to close in ~28 hours.
 
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