We should also figure out a way to blow them up but the thing is putting up enough missiles in enough places for that to be the main string to our blow risks getting discovered early and getting the planet glassed. Hacking is slower to set up that pushing the button on out missiles, we can always try to blow them up after a failed or partially successful hack, but not the other way around.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
We should also figure out a way to blow them up but the thing is putting up enough missiles in enough places for that to be the main string to our blow risks getting discovered early and getting the planet glassed. Hacking is slower to set up that pushing the button on out missiles, we can always try to blow them up after a failed or partially successful hack, but not the other way around.
We still have to build the missiles/other method of explosions first though! And have enough for multiple salvo's.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Stealth fighters. One for each killsat, or at least enough that we can clear the sky horizon to horizon.
First, it does not require us to do three turns of precursor builds during which we are still vulnerable. Second, we can take them with us and reuse them if we don't end up fighting. Third, they are more reliable than hacking and can take a second or third shot if they miss, unlike missiles.
I'd prefer to let the existing nations stand off the mechanicus ground forces, since my bet is that if we can clear the sky the shock and awe might make them think twice about rushing headlong to destruction. So minimal build there but transfer of heavier weapons to Avon.
I wonder what it would take to build a network of satellites that could void-shield an entire planet.
First, it does not require us to do three turns of precursor builds during which we are still vulnerable. Second, we can take them with us and reuse them if we don't end up fighting. Third, they are more reliable than hacking and can take a second or third shot if they miss, unlike missiles.
I'd prefer to let the existing nations stand off the mechanicus ground forces, since my bet is that if we can clear the sky the shock and awe might make them think twice about rushing headlong to destruction. So minimal build there but transfer of heavier weapons to Avon.
I wonder what it would take to build a network of satellites that could void-shield an entire planet.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We have, at present, zero evidence of such a coordinated system existing.
The evidence is 'it was built by the Imperium of Man, a super fascist state' and 'even the Imperium is generally loath to exterminate planets so they would have a failsafe', it's not 100%, but it's also not nothing
For the ground forces I think that we should give them some heavy stuff closer to go day.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Right so. I say we get Victan on board and have him show up helping our Mechanicus Shooshing. Maybe get Anexa in contact with the community for socialisation. It's important for humans.
As for what we want to do with them... Hybrid approach. For now, focus on promotion and some education, citing that we need them to be stronger before we can afford them our deeper secrets. True Subversion is something we only do in private, with cryptic hints to those we believe to be receptive.
We tell both Victan and Anexa about Chaos, but only after installing a compartmentalisation implant like we did with ourselves. Let's hook up an "Psy-shield detecting attacks" alarm to them as well. Shake them out if they drift by accident. For Anexa especially, let's make sure the knowledge of even their existence can be wholly purged from active thought.
Can we spend an action to teach Anexa a specialty? If so, I think we go research/cybernetics. Probably both, eventually. But research first, because then we can have her develop the cybernetics specialty from research.
Let's see if we can hack the Killsats from the backend first, install some various kill-codes in them that'll terminate them.
We should also see about recruiting from Aevon more openly. I don't think we need to worry about them turning on us, they're too deep in bed with us to risk a betrayal. Though that goes mutually. Which is not a bad thing to us. Forced trust is still trust.
Building stealth shuttles/fighters and getting some orbital stuff ready is likely worthwhile.
We can probably edit our Ship Void Shields to be terrestrial. It's not like we're getting that one back up. Should spare us a few points, methinks.
As for what we want to do with them... Hybrid approach. For now, focus on promotion and some education, citing that we need them to be stronger before we can afford them our deeper secrets. True Subversion is something we only do in private, with cryptic hints to those we believe to be receptive.
We tell both Victan and Anexa about Chaos, but only after installing a compartmentalisation implant like we did with ourselves. Let's hook up an "Psy-shield detecting attacks" alarm to them as well. Shake them out if they drift by accident. For Anexa especially, let's make sure the knowledge of even their existence can be wholly purged from active thought.
Can we spend an action to teach Anexa a specialty? If so, I think we go research/cybernetics. Probably both, eventually. But research first, because then we can have her develop the cybernetics specialty from research.
Let's see if we can hack the Killsats from the backend first, install some various kill-codes in them that'll terminate them.
We should also see about recruiting from Aevon more openly. I don't think we need to worry about them turning on us, they're too deep in bed with us to risk a betrayal. Though that goes mutually. Which is not a bad thing to us. Forced trust is still trust.
Building stealth shuttles/fighters and getting some orbital stuff ready is likely worthwhile.
We can probably edit our Ship Void Shields to be terrestrial. It's not like we're getting that one back up. Should spare us a few points, methinks.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The imperium relies on slaves to hand load their building sized orbital weapons. They're not exactly the kind of people I associate with highly centralized, digital command and control.
Some do, but this is an exterminatus weapon, not some bucket of bolts in the back and beyond. Ships getting blown up because their tech is shit is fine, they can make more ships, they cannot make more habitable planets (not really barring some edge cases). Overuse of exterminatus is the kind of thing that can bring even an inquisitor on the block so setting one up without an override would be very unwise.
Who would have guessed the imperial state would have so many kill sats in Orbit?Not Me! But seriously we need to intrract more with the mechanicus get our core out become the holy figure of them with old tech and all and unit them as we march the march of progress no more wishy washy we subvert the mechanicus full no question asked.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Disagree. We're not ready to handle that. It needs a crit success to be worthwhile IMO and we CANNOT count on that.
Expensive, but not that expensive.
10ebbor10 did the math:
We can do it in 3 build AP, of which 1.5 would be manufactories(usefull for anything building related).
Whatever we decide on, I think we should take the fight to the Mechanicus in the next two to three turns. We should be ready by then, things will get messy but we will be ready.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Yeah this has been going on long enough by now. We need to start moving to the final phases of project: New Denva
Be that by fighting, or subverting the Mechanicus or both. This arc has lasted about long enough methinks.
Ok. This is a big misunderstanding that I think you have. Exterminatus weapons cannot be utilized without the codes of a very high ranked imperial, think Fleet Admirals rarely and Inquisitors commonly. There flat out wont be stuff like Virus Bombs and Cyclonic Torpedo's on those kill sats. They way they work has to be through massed bombardment either kinetic macro cannons or lance/lasers. Why? Because an Inquisitor leaving 100 MINIMUM exterminatus weapons is going to be shot for insanity - especially when they aren't even guarded, Exterminatus munitions are the most securely kept stuff that is in 'common' use throughout the imperium. Also, even if they did, nobody here has the authority to activate them. The highest rank here was only part of an Inquisitor's retinue, they don't get enough authority to handle this level of firepower.
Exterminatus, as in rendering a planet incapable of human life does not require any of those things, much less a hundred of them. Enough nukes to trigger a nuclear winter would do, hell enough anything to make ash to wreck the climate and biosphere would do. Cyclonic torpedos and the like are needed when you want to pack that much punch into a single ship tat you can then move around, but when you have a web of a 100 satellites to use and a static target just below you can go lower tech. Crucially though the reason the IoM does not like to render planets unfit for life still apply. Vita used the terms 'sterylize half a continent' in relation to those satelites, well the biosphere is a necesary part of mentaining a breathable atmosphere so if they do that to every continent the planet is screwed if in a less over the top way than a virus bomb would cause.
When an Inquisitor wants to commit Exterminatus, it means that nothing on that planet is going to survive the next half hour, if that. Kill sat's? They are much slower and have a general gradient on how f-ed the planet is going to be afterwards. They can easily be used to glass one part of a continent and leave the rest mostly fine aside from the general effects on the climate. Something that 40k's tech can handle (as can ours). The mechanicus getting some shots off is bad - don't get me wrong. But if we have a good amount of space fighters then it isn't a one and done 'we lose' if they start shooting as long as we shoot first and have the main targets (large population centers) behind void shields.
There are gradations to exterminarus just as there are to anything else, sometimes it's all life, sometimes it's all human life depends on what you have to hand. Point is the satellites above us are set in such a configuration that they can entirely destroy the land biosphere and acidify the oceans etc... You are being very blaze with that 'they have tech that can handle it'. Who's they? Mars? There is probably tech good enough to handle that somewhere in the Imperium, but out here in the back and beyond it's exterminatus just the same.
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- Location
- florida
@Neablis can we make it conditional on her getting her own version of our chaos shield, and being able to maintain it?
Since you know. Not having brain worms is cool.
She also frankly will not be able to partition information like we are. Which is a problem.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The other thing that pretty much everyone seems to ignoring, is that AI's are uniquely vulnerable to chais.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Chais? Chaos-AIs? Or what?
- Location
- florida
MORE resistant yes.
It's still kind of a dick move to just go "hey have some info hazards kid" and expecting her to just... tank it?
[ ] Plan Prepping the fall
-[ ] Research X2 (200+200=400 RP)
--[ ] Improved Passive Stealth (100 RP)
--[ ] Machine spirit jamming (150 RP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth Bombers (75 RP, 20 BP, 5 CP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth Fighters (50 RP, 25 BP, 5 CP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth Assault Shuttle (25/75 RP, 25 BP, 5 CP)
-[ ] ConstructionX2 (1300+1300=2600 BP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth BombersX20 (400 BP, 50 CP)
--[ ] Medium Void-shield Installation, concealed (2000 BP, 50 CP)
--[ ] Anti-Orbital Defenses, concealed (200 BP, 5 CP)
Mecanicus acolytes
-[] Educate: Riskier than Promote but this will make them more loyal to us.
Anexa about Chaos
-[ ] We tell her how dangerous Chaos is, really emphasize the danger of studying it. Heck, even just talking about is setting the shielding off. That knowledge was locked away with several hard encryptions to ensure we didn't become corrupted and even then, we still have several alarms set in case anything happens. That was why the Men of Iron attacked humanity, they had no emotions and were obsessed with studying what is effectively magic. This gave Chaos unfettered access to intelligent beings with no protection.
Victan
-[ ] Yes: We bring him on board and take it slow with him over the five years, encouraging a friendship with Anexa before eventually revealing ourselves. If he doesn't want to stay with us after this, he is welcome to leave but we ask he keep what he found secret. We want to explore the stars and avoid conflict if possible.
I designed this plan around hitting the Mechanicus on turn 12. The bombers will help deal with the satellites in orbit while the Anti-Orbital defense will help cover the base not completely but some is better than none. Any we can't destroy right away, we can jam which will slow them down, buying a bit more time with the shield protecting our facility above ground limiting damage. All rolls well, with some acolytes providing some intel on the inside will really help. Subverting was tempting but that seemed too risky at this juncture. Victan, even if he doesn't want to come with us will still be safer at our hidden location, something I'm sure W will very much appreciate. As for telling Anexa about Chaos, she'll discover it sooner or later but I would rather emphasize how dangerous that can be. Hopefully we can nail the point home and her curiosity doesn't get the better of her.
-[ ] Research X2 (200+200=400 RP)
--[ ] Improved Passive Stealth (100 RP)
--[ ] Machine spirit jamming (150 RP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth Bombers (75 RP, 20 BP, 5 CP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth Fighters (50 RP, 25 BP, 5 CP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth Assault Shuttle (25/75 RP, 25 BP, 5 CP)
-[ ] ConstructionX2 (1300+1300=2600 BP)
--[ ] Basic Stealth BombersX20 (400 BP, 50 CP)
--[ ] Medium Void-shield Installation, concealed (2000 BP, 50 CP)
--[ ] Anti-Orbital Defenses, concealed (200 BP, 5 CP)
Mecanicus acolytes
-[] Educate: Riskier than Promote but this will make them more loyal to us.
Anexa about Chaos
-[ ] We tell her how dangerous Chaos is, really emphasize the danger of studying it. Heck, even just talking about is setting the shielding off. That knowledge was locked away with several hard encryptions to ensure we didn't become corrupted and even then, we still have several alarms set in case anything happens. That was why the Men of Iron attacked humanity, they had no emotions and were obsessed with studying what is effectively magic. This gave Chaos unfettered access to intelligent beings with no protection.
Victan
-[ ] Yes: We bring him on board and take it slow with him over the five years, encouraging a friendship with Anexa before eventually revealing ourselves. If he doesn't want to stay with us after this, he is welcome to leave but we ask he keep what he found secret. We want to explore the stars and avoid conflict if possible.
I designed this plan around hitting the Mechanicus on turn 12. The bombers will help deal with the satellites in orbit while the Anti-Orbital defense will help cover the base not completely but some is better than none. Any we can't destroy right away, we can jam which will slow them down, buying a bit more time with the shield protecting our facility above ground limiting damage. All rolls well, with some acolytes providing some intel on the inside will really help. Subverting was tempting but that seemed too risky at this juncture. Victan, even if he doesn't want to come with us will still be safer at our hidden location, something I'm sure W will very much appreciate. As for telling Anexa about Chaos, she'll discover it sooner or later but I would rather emphasize how dangerous that can be. Hopefully we can nail the point home and her curiosity doesn't get the better of her.
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Not having the information is also hazardous in its own way, trillions upon trillions of imperial citizens live and die not knowing what Chaos is much less the names of the Gods so then they encounter their markings or things of their make they just get tainted all unknowing. Ever wonder why all those imperial pilgrims at the Siege of Vraks were just down with painting Khorne symbols on their arms once their leadership got tainted? Because they didn't know any better.