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Why do you ask when you have already made it clear you'll dismiss anything that goes against your interpretation, either because you disagree with the scale of the writing, or the one saying it?

But yes, as MSH says, the Apotheosis of a Dark King in the Siege of Terra would have been the end of reality, splitting it like a ripe fruit.

To be fair that's probably not ~reality~ reality, as in "reality as we know it" not "the actual factual whole universe". Reality might not care if the Milkway galaxy get's nomed by the immaterium but yknow everyone ~in~ the Milkway probably does.
 
Our ship is an upsided grand cruiser called "spark of the ancients". The Mechanicus have a long history of finding DoTA super-tech and slapping a cog on it and everyone nodding that it is totally legit.
An argument greatly complicated by the fact that several media corporations on the planet below are broadcasting docu-series about it's construction.
 
Sorry, let me be more clear: What in-game actions would be acceptable to solve that thread this turn?

I don't want to destroy it, and there's nothing else that would guaranteed resolve it this turn. The scrapcode research might resolve it, and might mean there's nothing left to get from it so we can agree to chuck it in the sun, but I think the odds are low. I'd rather do the immaterium research this turn and then the scrapcode research next turn, so we can get the most out of it.

That's these two:

-[] Immaterium Investigations (200 RP) The Warp. The Empyrean. Many names for something best described by poetry. It it a place? An idea? A dimension? A shared dream of all sapient beings that's somehow impressed itself onto reality? Probably all of the above. The important question is - how do you interface with it? Can you get reproducible data out of something so - insane? (Likely discounts other research related to psychic phenomena, and be a prerequisite for many more advanced techs. Unlocks further warp-based research including improved teleportation that may eventually lead to warp portals, better sensors for warp phenomena, and potential demonology).

-[] Further Scrapcode research (150 RP) You have more data on how scrapcode works, but it's only left you with more questions. The power of the generator was steadily rising but it spiked when it attacked - where did that energy come from? Can you get a better hint as to how it works? (Discounts existing scrapcode research, may unlock new research around psytech/psychic shielding. Synergizes with warp understanding.)
 
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An argument greatly complicated by the fact that several media corporations on the planet below are broadcasting docu-series about it's construction.
That is explainable as having DoTA construction tech (because that is what it is), and we can greatly appease Imperium Nihilus by offering to build a fleet for them sometime in the next century.

Building the Denva system out to be a Vita-branded Mechanius chapter which is a pocket sovereignty nation is perfectly doable without causing immediate wars with everyone else. That Denva Secundus isn't a hive world is just wonky Mechanius things as far as everyone else would care. And as long as there are enough defenses and ships, the rest of the Mechanius will just cope and seethe provided some light trading is permitted
 
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That is explainable as having DoTA construction tech (because that is that it is), and we can greatly appease Imperium Nihilus by offering to build a fleet for them sometime in the next century.

That itself opens a whole box of worms... I wish we knew more. We're missing a lot of information here. Like, where did these Spehs Mahreens come from? What resources do they have access too? What problems are they facing? Can we keep them out of communication range of the planet without causing bigger problems?
 
Given we got another large discount on Advanced Materials, I would highly recommend we do this one. This seems to be another gateway technology that would open up a wide variety of new technologies and provide heavy heavy research discounts for many others.

I would take it for that alone, except I also would like to see what possibilities we can have for upgraded units too.
 
Re: Anexa
What we get in the future(lvl 30) with,
Jack of All knowledge
+150 RP
+15 on Warp and Machine Spirit research +2 other specialities
+10 on all other research
vs
Master of Many Talents
+150 RP(?)
+10 on 8 specialities
+more unique research opportunities
Speculating on level 30 when we're not guaranteed to get there is mostly pointless. It also assumes new perks at levels 20 and 30 don't have special synergies. High Throughput is interesting mostly because right now it's a +20% increase to our RP when we do a single research action per turn.

We do need a commander, yes but we don't need one desperately as long as negotiations with the Space Marines goes well.
My issue with this is we also don't need a champion when most enemies we will find short term can be bogged down with bots or are beyond Cia's abilities. Meanwhile, we have a single ship we deperately need to protect.

re: research
-[] Research, 2 actions
-[] Immaterium Investigations (145 RP + 55 Anexa RP)
--[] Anexa assists
-[] Manufacturing Machine Spirits (100 RP)
-[] Ok, maybe there's a point to medical school (30 RP)
-[] An Introduction to Human Genetics (55 RP)
-[] 70 RP on something else? Could pick up Mothballing or GMEI for cheap, and have some RP left over to start another research? Or could get most of the way through a 100 point research, or almost halfway through a 150 point research.

That said, neablis did give us a list of techs that would chip way at it:
Let's also get at those! Specifically the large scale spirits seem very useful. And we can maybe move Anessa into it.

I would also caution against any warp research while the astartes are right there.

Speaking of which:
Imperial Cult doctrine does not well-recognize the "pre-Imperial" period and considers the humans who lived then to be at best spiritually primitive hereteks and at worst enemies of the Emperor which he founded the Imperium to exterminate. This ain't it.
Can anyone else confirm that this would be the reaction? If so that cover is infeasible.

Go with the old cover story, more or less. We are the self-proclaimed Archmagos of this remnant human colony. There is NO chaos here. There are NO xenos here. We are well in hand trying to protect ourselves against the EVERYTHING, hence the ship. We MIGHT be doing a LITTLE TECH-HERESY, but YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT. Praise the Omnissiah, whom is one and the same with HIM ON TERRA, and GOODBYE.
How common is listening equipment? i.e. How likely is it that this frigate can/will capture stray packets from the planet and get information on whom we've told them we are?

Our ship is an upsided grand cruiser called "spark of the ancients". The Mechanicus have a long history of finding DoTA super-tech and slapping a cog on it and everyone nodding that it is totally legit.
Yeah... except we don't have the cogs and we look new.

That is explainable as having DoTA construction tech (because that is what it is), and we can greatly appease Imperium Nihilus by offering to build a fleet for them sometime in the next century.
That might work, if they don't consider such tech heresy immediately, and don't get any of the transmissions from the planet re: us being an Ancient.
 
For space marine bribes, we can probably just give 'em a whole bunch of plasma rifles, melta guns and bolters and just say they were 'Master-Crafted' samples of our work (if our plasmas don't overheat or explode, we could actually sell this bit I reckon)

Idk maybe we dip it in gold or something to really convince them
 
That itself opens a whole box of worms... I wish we knew more. We're missing a lot of information here. Like, where did these Spehs Mahreens come from? What resources do they have access too? What problems are they facing? Can we keep them out of communication range of the planet without causing bigger problems?
The Imperium Nihilus is basically completely isolated from a lot of the structural elements of the Imperium of Man which would actually be a large scale threat to Vita.

But we absolutely need to interact with the rest of the sector. Avoiding that simply is not an option.

Yeah... except we don't have the cogs and we look new.
The answer is they aren't going to be looking terribly hard, because the alternative is they are getting face rolled. And well, Vita can always add some decorative cogs or explain the ship is still being fitted.

Can anyone else confirm that this would be the reaction? If so that cover is infeasible.
We definitely do not want to say we are from pre-emperor times outside of close allies. The technology? Fine. People? Not so much.

That might work, if they don't consider such tech heresy immediately, and don't get any of the transmissions from the planet re: us being an Ancient.
A Space Marine defers to the Mechanius for judging tech heresy. Outside of blindly obvious things like it is bleeding or such. And the only forces which are able to judge that are on a Forgeworld (and they sure as shit aren't going to travel) or back on Mars (which are cut off).

Proclaiming the system as Mechanius property and in progress of reclaiming some DoTA technology and ensuring the system has a couple grand-cruiser scale defenses is the safest way to ensure we have a fallback location staying around.

For space marine bribes, we can probably just give 'em a whole bunch of plasma rifles, melta guns and bolters and just say they were 'Master-Crafted' samples of our work (if our plasmas don't overheat or explode, we could actually sell this bit I reckon)
Having a reputation for giving Space Marines free dark age of technology wargear is actually desirable.
 
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On the topic of Anexa's abilities, Jack of all Knowledge is almost strictly better than Master of Many Talents, which kind of annoys me, but oh well.
Mechanically I agree with you, but Master of Many Talents also says it gives the chance of unlocking bonus technologies. I think this would be the primary argument for taking, to get the tech that otherwise might be locked away behind rare samples. I still prefer High Throughput or Jack, but factoring in the rare tech unlocks makes it closer.


A question: Bongo is recharging with every turn. What would it take to resolve that plot thread for good?
Sorry, let me be more clear: What in-game actions would be acceptable to solve that thread this turn?

I agree, I'd like to research it this turn if possible. Then if there is nothing else we can get from it punt it into the sun. I think it just comes down to what pre-reqs people want in place first. As @Angle pointed out, Immaterium Investigations (200 RP), would likely discount it on a good roll and might synergize nicely with it. Scrapcode-resistant Psychic shielding (150 RP), would certainly make the research safer. That would put us at 3 research actions. I think it is more likely we will do two research this action so, Immaterium -> Further scrapcode would make the most sense to me.

That itself opens a whole box of worms... I wish we knew more. We're missing a lot of information here. Like, where did these Spehs Mahreens come from? What resources do they have access too? What problems are they facing? Can we keep them out of communication range of the planet without causing bigger problems?

Yeah, this is why I am strongly in favor of talking politely and doing a diplomacy action. We need to continue with our current cover, as any change will be fairly easy to spot in the long term.

In terms of tech heresy specifically, different from warp heresy, I doubt they will care all that much. Space marines work with all sorts to get the job done (numerous alliances with eldar / tau in the face of larger threats) and from the lore I can recall tend to dislike the Mechanicus. That doesn't mean rub it in his face, but I don't think it will immediately sink the deal.

More to the point, I'd like to put our best foot forward and see how they react. If they are going to be an enemy no matter what, I want to discover that as early as possible so we can plan for it. On the other hand if there is potential for mutual existence (or even an alliance) I'd also like to figure that out quickly.

Here is my first pass at a diplomatic action:

"Hail, Sergeant Cyras of the Knights of the Crimson Vigil. I am Magos Vita, speaking on behalf of those who now dwell in the Denva system. We mean you no harm and are not enemies of the Emperor—this world was abandoned to its fate long ago, and I have worked tirelessly to preserve it from threats both within and beyond. We welcome dialogue so we may clarify our intentions and ensure the security of Denva. Please, let us speak further so that we might find common ground."

Diplomatic Action: Establishing Formal Relations with the Knights of the Crimson Vigil
You propose a structured diplomatic exchange to solidify mutual trust between yourself and Sergeant Cyras's Chapter. During this meeting, you will demonstrate your peaceful intent by offering free passage through the Denva system and access to refit or resupply facilities, if needed. In turn, you seek the Chapter's perspective on the current state of humanity across the surrounding sectors, hoping to better understand Imperial politics, threats, and opportunities. Emphasize your own upcoming exploratory missions; assure the Knights of the Crimson Vigil that any existential dangers to humanity discovered will be swiftly reported, and you stand ready to aid in their containment or eradication of the same. By exchanging information on strategic dangers and coordinating potential responses, you aim to establish lasting goodwill and reinforce that Denva's ascendant power can be an asset—rather than an obstacle—to the chapter's vigilance in this region.​

Reasoning
  • I'm not sure we have the resources to blockade the system, so free travel is easy to give
  • We have two shipyards, so offering refit/resupply shouldn't be too big a cost for us. Logistics are always a burden so a safe port is very helpful for them, and if they become allies will help protect the system.
  • I define existential threats as just that, something that seeks to end all of humanity. This would NOT mean reporting every xeno or helping with genocide for the lulz. This WOULD mean helping against a major tyranid fleet or demon incursion. If something like that happens it will be our problem eventually, so I'd rather face it with the space marines than alone.
  • During the talks we would give the same story we have given the planet.
This would get us critical intelligence on what is happening around the sub-sector (and hopefully sector at large).

Thoughts?
 
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Diplomance actions with the Space Marines would absolutely gives critical intel about the surroundings.

Also ship services that we can offer would generate a lot of political capital for very cheap.
 
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I love that plan. It gives an accurate title, does not lie, and doesn't contradict our current story. It doesn't claim we're an Admech member, only that we have the title. It doesn't force Denva to lie and hope no one discovers the 'secret' about what we've told the entire planet about our origins for the past 60+ years; and it also sets us up as a friendly force who is willing to support them, making ourselves a VERY clear asset.

On top of all that, if Victan supports, that's a pretty hefty bonus for us. Honestly, I love that idea.
 
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However, as it requires a good dice roll, I'll personally temper my expectations. Still, what we already got is still amazing. The follow-up tech for better Void Abacus is almost critical asset to get, sooner or later. I want both safer and faster warp travel, as we going to be doing a lot of exploring.
You've still got a microscopic navigator stashed away somewhere. A good navigator is nearly the top of the game for warp travel. You'd only get there with like 5 more upgrades to the abacus, and decent rolls.

We got our hands on some Inquisitorial documents and have machine spirits hacking technology, maybe that could be an avenue? Like, 'forge a Rosette, spend enough time giving the Marines the runaround to hack their systems to make them respond as if a valid Rosette is there?
That would be a very extended runaround - months at least. You want better hacking tech for this to be more viable.

I believe you meant Victan continues.
Fixed, thanks.

Well shit, didn't expect Blood Angel successors to be the lucky pick for us.
Rolled 'em up randomly.

Is there meant to be a word like "grin" or "smile" between "The" and "remains" in this sentence?
Yup. Fixed.

Secondly, is Vita referring to the Imperium as "the Empire" an in-character choice/flavour (reflecting her internal perception of the Imperium), or is the term unintentionally being used interchangeably?
She (by which I mean I) am doing it interchangably. It's probably fine but it's a bit of a bad habit. I'll fix it.

Thirdly, I was wondering - has the population count of Denva Secundus changed significantly (increasing/declining/stagnating) since we initially awoke? Since it was initially approx. ~4 billion, and the population is still described as "several billion", I'm guessing it almost certainly couldn't have exceeded 10 billion people and is probably closer to 4, 5 or 6 billion than 7, 8 or 9 billion given the implied value of "several".
It's only been a couple of generations since you woke up, but it's increased maybe ~30%? Mostly due to better technology, but is starting to level off. You have no idea what will happen when they start going to space.

I was mostly wondering because it seems to me that they will almost certainly need much more dramatic population growth to colonise the wider Denva system, let alone surrounding (new/uninhabited/"virgin" or inhabited pre-Rift) systems, even if we assume many orders of magnitude greater ratios of automation to humanity than almost anywhere else in (or has been in) the Imperium.

Perhaps we can do some joint research collaboration on cloning? 🤔
Yeah, they'll run into manpower issues as they expand. A few ways to solve that:
1. Cloning, like you mention.
2. Finding more human/Xeno populations to integrate.
3. Other technologies that increase the amount of work one person can do. OMC & follow-on techs would let a single person run manufactories and ships. All of a sudden a few billion goes a lot further.

For the second, for all research Anexa gives an additional +4 currently at level 11, a +5 at level 14, a +6 at level 17, and a +7 at level 20. (And more later on, but that's after the level 20 bonus.) If this stacks with the +5 to her two specialties, then she'll be immediately giving a +9 in her specialties in addition to +4 everywhere else, which will eventually grow to a +11 and larger. She won't be able to acquire any more specialties, but will have an increasingly large bonus to every research. And even if it doesn't stack, it's still overall a huge boost to everything. (If the bonus doesn't stack somehow, would mean she'd have a flat +6 to everything at level 17? Or would it work some other way?)
Yeah, it stacks.

Should be Victan, yeah?
Fixed.

Did that involve them overcoming the stagnant orthodoxy of the Imperium/Mechanicus on Research, too?
Or would they still need a diplo Action to start researching on their own in a reasonable timeframe?
They're working on it. The mechanicus is still being a bit of a stick in the mud, but they're starting to get assimilated by the simple expedience of young people getting trained without believing quite as hard in the Cult Mechanicus as their teachers.

Could we diplo to trade with them for mutually beneficial manufactories?
Depends on what you mean - as in you run manufactories and give them some of the output? Probably.

I agree with you on the wiggle room for CP, but with the sudden space marine interrupt I don't think we can skip diplomacy this turn. We only get one first impression and all that.
I'm trying to make it such that a diplomacy action isn't required. If you really want to make a strong impression on the Space Marines/control what they do while in Denva/learn anything in particular from them then maybe, but if you want to tell them to leave (with whatever justification) or tell them to stay away from Denva Secundus or just let them do whatever then it's not necessary.

The biggest Problem is that the Planet we have set up for a stable port is Kiiinda heretical... Just a bit. I mean, Their trading with Xeno's right now.
They're not trading yet. They just want to. And it would actually take a somewhat detailed analysis of the planet's datanet to figure that out. That would probably require them to spend some time in orbit.

On the topic of Anexa's abilities, Jack of all Knowledge is almost strictly better than Master of Many Talents, which kind of annoys me, but oh well.
Oh right, I forgot to add: something. Edited the update to add:
For the first three vote options Anexa's passive action is going to be replaced by her rolling to discount random techs by an amount that scales with level. She'll only level on a crit, in which case she'll probably also unlock a bonus tech from her specialties.
[] Anexa: Master of Many Talents
Doubles specialty capacity & bonuses (so will be able to have 4 specialties, and each give +10 to the dice roll and potentially unlock new technologies when she uses them). This bonus will apply to her passive action.

So, Master of Many Talents means that she'll discover new techs from her specialties more often/better.

Sorry, let me be more clear: What in-game actions would be acceptable to solve that thread this turn?
-[] Further Scrapcode research (150 RP) probably. That's what you got for keeping it, and you'll receive another vote to toss it into the sun after that.

Ask @Neablis . I think they accept write-ins.

Generally the thread consensus is to keep Bongo in a cage so we can continue unethical daemon testing.
I was so tempted to have vita start calling the Scrapcode Generator Bongo. But that seems unnecessarily silly.

That itself opens a whole box of worms... I wish we knew more. We're missing a lot of information here. Like, where did these Spehs Mahreens come from? What resources do they have access too? What problems are they facing? Can we keep them out of communication range of the planet without causing bigger problems?
All things that would be nice to know, yes. But sometimes you need to make decisions with limited information. You can attempt to learn more from them if you want. This diplomatic effort wouldn't be a bad way to do it, though it comes with its own risks. Mainly in that if you prove to be a strategic asset the Knights might decide they want a permanent presence here.
Diplomatic Action: Establishing Formal Relations with the Knights of the Crimson Vigil

I would also caution against any warp research while the astartes are right there.
Vita's smart enough to wait until they've left or are very far away to do anything wonky, so don't feel like you're shooting yourself in the foot unless you roll a 1. But then your foot's getting blown off anyway, and exactly how will be for me to determine.

How common is listening equipment? i.e. How likely is it that this frigate can/will capture stray packets from the planet and get information on whom we've told them we are?
They'd need to get into orbit, and spend some time there.

There's been a lot of discussion as to what the broader state of the Galaxy looks like, and if the Galaxy would be destroyed if big E got off his throne. Suffice it to say you don't know, but you do know that this place is pretty cut off from whatever's going on in the Imperium. Not only is this Imperium Nhilus, but you're on the far side of the Eye of Terror from Terra, and the 13th Black Crusade wasn't that long ago (and in some ways never ended). The Imperium exists as a concept, but you're not sure how much that concept is rooted in reality. Anybody claiming to be Imperial at this point hasn't spoken to Terra in a long time.

But suffice it to say that the game isn't going to suddenly end because of events on the far side of the Galaxy. That would be Dumb. You might get invasions coming through from outside the sector, and I make no promises to hold to canon in that regard.

Also, with a significant amount of help from @Prime 2.0 I've gone through and edited turns 6, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14 & 19 to replace the "% convention for Binaric with the more standard ++. I'll try to remember to use it going forward, please drop a comment if anything's messed up!
 
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Depends on what you mean - as in you run manufactories and give them some of the output? Probably.
Or we build agroponics to grow food to sell for access.
Or we build a city for them in exchange for access.
(Both assuming we learned their needs in negotiation)

Anything thats actual trade where they get something of fair value, and not "barely enough that they'd not fight back anymore".
 
Thanks, Neablis, for that last comment and for being active on the quest!

I've been suggesting for the past two turns that it makes sense to voyage out of the system, but it's hard for me to do that again … I'm thinking a 1x diplo, 3x research turn makes a lot of sense to deal with both the space marines and Bongo.

With that in mind, I'm inclined to defer action on the mining stations for a turn — they're not going anywhere.
 
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Okay I am taking a lone frigate as a reassuring sign: this sector probably isn't crawling with armadas that will see a grand cruiser as adorable and bite sized if a Sword class is on its own rather than supporting at least one cruiser.

Definitely not the last one for Anexa, right? We can build to get BP, but research bonuses are priceless.
 
Thanks for the feedback @Neablis, I hope your travels are going well!

Since we have a longer moratorium this time I think it would be helpful to think about our plan for the next couple of turns. Between our wayfairer trait and the general board consensus (mine included) we will be heading out to explore in the next few turns. Assuming we leave in 3 turns (including this one) and the last action of that turn is to go explore another system, then we have 11 actions before heading out. Assuming we spend 1 to diplomance the marines, we have 10 left to use.

Using this as a benchmark I knocked together a quick plan with 3 major objectives: Finish the scrapcode tier 2 research, get a fleet (more of a squad really) of escort ships, and continue Denva's industrial uplift. From that I mapped the major actions out onto the different turns with 2 floating flex actions.

Action 1DiplomacyStart relations with Space Marines
Action 2ResearchImmaterium Investigations (200 RP)
Action 3ResearchScrapcode-resistant Psychic shielding (150 RP)
Action 4ResearchFurther Scrapcode research (150 RP)
Action 5ResearchAbacus Manufacturing (200 RP)
Action 6ResearchStreamlined ship design (150 RP) + Ship Design
Action 7ConstructionBuild Ships / Start factory handover
Action 8FlexFlex
Action 9ConstructionContinue factory handoff
Action 10ConstructionFinish factory handoff
Action 11FlexFlex
Action 12TravelTravel to and explore Kethraxis

Each action just has one major focus, so there is plenty of slack in the plan even without the flex actions.

I have front loaded Bongo research so that we can punt him into the sun once we are done with it.

For the Denva industrial uplift I envision us handing off ground manufactories at the same rate that we build new orbitals ones. We can lay claim to the gas station, which will give us a nice base and make the whole project cheaper. I am in favor of giving them maned factories for now. I agree OMC will be very helpful in the long run, but in the short term needing to train thousands of engineers for the factories will be much more beneficial. This will help with a solid industrial base, which we can streamline on our return.

The space marine frigate nicely highlights why I want to pick up escorts that can travel with us, there will be lots of things faster than us. We need fast screening elements to help scout and chase down anything we can't catch. However if we want to leave earlier we can shelve this and probably get everything done in two turns.

I really like @Amerigo Vespucci 's idea to visit Kethraxis and it also starts us in the direction of the black hole system of Zarithune's Maw, both should have great research potential.

Thoughts?
 
Proclaiming the system as Mechanius property and in progress of reclaiming some DoTA technology and ensuring the system has a couple grand-cruiser scale defenses is the safest way to ensure we have a fallback location staying around.
Thank you. I amend my position: mechanicus!vita seems like the best cover right now.

Do we want to change our appearanve to best fit with an archmagos? We know from the Thalya interlude that we look way too biological. And this needn't even involve printing a new body—we can just project it in the datastream.

This doesn't really go into the techs that would boost the artificial intelligence tech, which would be important to sustain escorts without spending tonnes of CP, nor does it go more heavily into the advanced shielding we are bound to need with a demon world around.

Additionally, my understanding is the author said doing one more Bongo research would allow us to choose to chuck it, not that it would definitely exhaust its utility.
 
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We should really do OMC and follow up instead of hand off, the result will be factories that the denvans can run with less manpower which they will desperately need.

My thinking was for the manual factories, was to give them more practical hands-on engineers/mechanics. This will give them a large population of people who really get the technology. I am mildly concerned that our manufactories are too black boxed and they might skip over some critical understanding.

But I might be making mountains out of molehills here. If we go with a diplo + 3 research we will have 655 RP and my outline only uses 500. We could slide OMC in there and then use one of the flex actions to get the follow on industrial research
 
I am in favor of giving them maned factories for now. I agree OMC will be very helpful in the long run, but in the short term needing to train thousands of engineers for the factories will be much more beneficial. This will help with a solid industrial base, which we can streamline on our return.
But why?
Why give them worse technology and delay a fundamental tech?
2 research AP one of which is comfirmed to give rebates to intelligence coding and which also would enable us to leave them automated juvenat facilities.

(Like: Would the elders getting juvenat access be worth a Crew Psyker/Staff Psykers to the monasteries?)
And would allow Staff to help with CP.
Most of the machine spirit research won't discount intelligence coding unless you crit, and even then only some of it will. That was just the foundational tech. Techs where a crit could reduce intelligence coding costs:
Advanced Materials, Large-scale Machine spirits, Advanced Neural Implants, Organic-Machine control. And probably a medical tech behind Ok, maybe there's a point to medical school.

Yes, but you can't build more juvenat facilities and have them operate when you leave. You need to either do OMC or juvenat research to make a manned version.
 
Can Vita claim to be Mechanicus at this point without it being super easy to disprove if one checks with Denva Secundus?

Having lies may be necessary, but having incompatible lies is a serious risk.
 
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