Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

[Angle]

Travel to and explore Kethraxis

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...Why Kethraxis? Myrris, in the opposite direction, was mentioned to produce Prometheum, which suggests the presence of advanced technology. Kethraxis, on the other hand, just has a feral world, which seems way less promising. :/

Anyway, a bit more of a plan:

-[] Diplomacy, 1 Action, Spehs Mahreens
-[] Diplomacy, 1 Action, Denva Research Institute
-[] Research, 2 actions
-[] Immaterium Investigations (145 RP + 55 Anexa RP)
--[] Anexa assists
-[] Manufacturing Machine Spirits (100 RP)
-[] Ok, maybe there's a point to medical school (30 RP)
-[] An Introduction to Human Genetics (55 RP)
-[] 70 RP on something else? Could pick up Mothballing or GMEI for cheap, and have some RP left over to start another research? Or could get most of the way through a 100 point research, or almost halfway through a 150 point research.

Alternatively, sub out the research institute for another research action, and pick up scrapcode resistant shields and further scrapcode research, for those who want that done immediately? Need to spend the extra 70 RP on them, plus probably 30 off of human genetics, but that seems acceptable.

 

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Thoughts?

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I like that thinking, and if it were up to me, that's the kind of path I'd follow. Trouble is, I think the clock is ticking on interstellar exploration a bit faster than that. I do think we need to get out of the system on the turn after this one in order to avoid triggering the Wayfarer malus (or whatever other term is correct).

I'd imagine something like diplo/research this turn, then next turn doing what industrial handover we can before leaving the system for a turn, then returning for further action.

 

[Speedemon22]

Ok I think I have a solid plan for this turn

[ ] Plan passing the torch

-[ ] DiplomacyX2
--[ ] You knew someone was going to stumble into the Denva system sooner or later and it turns out it was the Space Marines who walked in. Best to establish contact with them while they're friendly. Might as well keep running with the Ancient story, it's worked so far. Offer them a friendly port to dock at to resupply, make repairs, whatever they need before they set off again and an agreement to help should they need it. In exchange, you'd like information on the Sector and the Subsector, threats, Points of Interest, what systems are friendly or not, and being able to call upon the Space Marines should you need them.
--[ ] Denva is reaching for the stars and you might as well give them the schematics for most of the technology you've made so far. You're not handing anything involving messing with the Warp over bar the Void Abacus, Warp Drive, and the Gellar Field. They've gotten this far, you might as well they put that tech to good use. If fact, now that you think about it, you should really discuss the land agreement you have with Aevon. Might be time to buy the land outright at this point.

-[ ]Research (200+55=255RP)
--[ ] Organic-Machine control (150 RP) to help free up the Manufactories and let Denva use them when we don't need them
--[ ]Brawler-class frigate 100 RP, 100 CP, 2 ship construction slots (1,000 BP, 2200x600 meters)

Spoiler: Innards (2,820BP)

Engines: (7) for (150BP). Shields: (medium) for (150BP) Armor: (medium) for (150BP)
Combat equipment(250BP): High-maneuverability thrusters (100BP), Medium boarding preparations (100BP), Plasma Macrocannon payloads (50BP)
Weapons(800X0.9=720BP): Prow Ram (50BP), Medium Macrocannons (200BP), Light MacrocannonsX2 (200BP), Light Melta weapon (200BP), Medium missiles (100BP), Point defense (50BP)
Non-combat equipment(400BP): Void Abacus (100BP), Warp Drive (100BP), Psychic shielding (200BP)

--[ ] Introduction to Human Genetics (50/100)

-[ ] Construction (7,850BP)
--[ ] Repair Aerithon installations (1,500VBP, 250CP)
--[ ] Brawler class frigateX2 (5,640BP, 200CP)
--[ ] Open to suggestions

-[ ]Victan active action: Talking with the Astartes

-[ ] Anexa Active action: Assist in studying Organic Machine Control

-[ ] Cia Active Psyker Improvement

EDIT: Aineko pointed out I could add a point defense into the brawler and up the engines without too much cost so I changed those.

 

[Nightlord256]

But why?
Why give them worse technology and delay a fundamental tech?
2 research AP one of which is comfirmed to give rebates to intelligence coding and which also would enable us to leave them automated juvenat facilities.

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In short, worried about jumping them over too many tech levels might stunt their understanding. Let's get a ruling on that.

@Neablis, any reason to worry that given them OMC factories would harm their long term understanding of the underlying engineering?

...Why Kethraxis? Myrris, in the opposite direction, was mentioned to produce Prometheum, which suggests the presence of advanced technology. Kethraxis, on the other hand, just has a feral world, which seems way less promising. :/

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Mainly, I want to go explore the black hole system further down the line. Ultimately I think there will be shinies in any direction though, so happy to change.

Edit: @Amerigo Vespucci, you might be on to something with the tighter time table. Let me make 2 turn plan.

Edit the second: @Neablis (sorry for the double tag), would it take a diplomatic action to handover our factories with OMC?

 

[Amerigo Vespucci]

...Why Kethraxis?

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Kethraxis is another hub system, leading to two others and thus opening additional paths. We're likely to travel through it multiple times, and any threat from the south would have to come through there. Myrris isn't a hub and doesn't present many options for further exploration.

In-character, Vita had mentioned being unfamiliar with what a feral world is and had expressed curiosity. It'd make sense to fulfill that curiosity.

 

[Angle]

...Why Kethraxis? Myrris, in the opposite direction, was mentioned to produce Prometheum, which suggests the presence of advanced technology. Kethraxis, on the other hand, just has a feral world, which seems way less promising. :/

Anyway, a bit more of a plan:

-[] Diplomacy, 1 Action, Spehs Mahreens
-[] Diplomacy, 1 Action, Denva Research Institute
-[] Research, 2 actions
-[] Immaterium Investigations (145 RP + 55 Anexa RP)
--[] Anexa assists
-[] Manufacturing Machine Spirits (100 RP)
-[] Ok, maybe there's a point to medical school (30 RP)
-[] An Introduction to Human Genetics (55 RP)
-[] 70 RP on something else? Could pick up Mothballing or GMEI for cheap, and have some RP left over to start another research? Or could get most of the way through a 100 point research, or almost halfway through a 150 point research.

Alternatively, sub out the research institute for another research action, and pick up scrapcode resistant shields and further scrapcode research, for those who want that done immediately? Need to spend the extra 70 RP on them, plus probably 30 off of human genetics, but that seems acceptable.

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Priorities for the next few turns would include large scale machine spirits, OMC, efficient, personal, and nested psy shields, factory handoffs, and eventually exploring the adjacent Myrris system. If people really want to explore more, maybe following the loop up from it through Othraels Lantern and then back around to Denva via Iridan and Veytharis.

 

[Toboe]

Ok I think I have a solid plan for this turn

[ ] Plan passing the torch

-[ ] DiplomacyX2
--[ ] You knew someone was going to stumble into the Denva system sooner or later and it turns out it was the Space Marines who walked in. Best to establish contact with them while they're friendly. Might as well keep running with the Ancient story, it's worked so far. Offer them a friendly port to dock at to resupply, make repairs, whatever they need before they set off again and an agreement to help should they need it. In exchange, you'd like information on the Sector and the Subsector, threats, Points of Interest, what systems are friendly or not, and being able to call upon the Space Marines should you need them.
--[ ] Denva is reaching for the stars and you might as well give them the schematics for most of the technology you've made so far. You're not handing anything involving messing with the Warp over bar the Void Abacus, Warp Drive, and the Gellar Field. They've gotten this far, you might as well they put that tech to good use. If fact, now that you think about it, you should really discuss the land agreement you have with Aevon. Might be time to buy the land outright at this point.

-[ ]Research (200+55=255RP)
--[ ] Organic-Machine control (150 RP) to help free up the Manufactories and let Denva use them when we don't need them
--[ ]Brawler-class frigate 100 RP, 100 CP, 2 ship construction slots (1,000 BP, 2200x600 meters)

Spoiler: Innards (2,700BP)

Engines: (5) for (75BP). Shields: (medium) for (150BP) Armor: (medium) for (150BP)
Combat equipment(250BP): High-maneuverability thrusters (100BP), Medium boarding preparations (100BP), Plasma Macrocannon payloads (50BP)
Weapons(750X0.9=675BP): Prow Ram (50BP), Medium Macrocannons (200BP), Light MacrocannonsX2 (200BP), Light Melta weapon (200BP), Medium missiles (100BP)
Non-combat equipment(400BP): Void Abacus (100BP), Warp Drive (100BP), Psychic shielding (200BP)

--[ ] Introduction to Human Genetics (50/100)

-[ ] Construction (7,850BP)
--[ ] Repair Aerithon installations (1,500VBP, 250CP)
--[ ] Brawler class frigateX2 (5,400BP, 200CP)
--[ ] Open to suggestions

-[ ]Victan active action: Talking with the Astartes

-[ ] Anexa Active action: Assist in studying Organic Machine Control

-[ ] Cia Active Psyker Improvement

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How about making a research cooperation write in with the existing tech as bribe instead of existing 2nd diplo action?
Both options would end with them having the tech, but the "use as bribe for research cooperation" option also speeds up Denva IIs growth in tech (and makes our research AP a bit more potent).

 

[Aineko]

--[ ]Brawler-class frigate 100 RP, 100 CP, 2 ship construction slots (1,000 BP, 2200x600 meters)

Spoiler: Innards (2,700BP)

Engines: (5) for (75BP). Shields: (medium) for (150BP) Armor: (medium) for (150BP)
Combat equipment(250BP): High-maneuverability thrusters (100BP), Medium boarding preparations (100BP), Plasma Macrocannon payloads (50BP)
Weapons(750X0.9=675BP): Prow Ram (50BP), Medium Macrocannons (200BP), Light MacrocannonsX2 (200BP), Light Melta weapon (200BP), Medium missiles (100BP)
Non-combat equipment(400BP): Void Abacus (100BP), Warp Drive (100BP), Psychic shielding (200BP)

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You've got some elbow room in there thanks to the cramming, you could at least add one point defense. The missiles partially cover point defense duty, but they're not a full replacement.

Also, I'd suggest buying the big engines instead of the little ones. An extra 150 BP per unit isn't much on what you're already paying and the difference between 5 and 7 is pretty big. Especially for a ship with 300 BP worth of especially short-ranged weapons. And a ram!

 

[Toboe]

In short, worried about jumping them over too many tech levels might stunt their understanding. Let's get a ruling on that.

@Neablis, any reason to worry that given them OMC factories would harm their long term understanding of the underlying engineering?

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Yeah, a ruling sounds like a good way to get that question out of the way.

 

[Angle]

Kethraxis is another hub system, leading to two others and thus opening additional paths. We're likely to travel through it multiple times, and any threat from the south would have to come through there. Myrris isn't a hub and doesn't present many options for further exploration.

In-character, Vita had mentioned being unfamiliar with what a feral world is and had expressed curiosity. It'd make sense to fulfill that curiosity.

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Myrris leads to Othraels Lantern, which is a hub. I don't want to be going on any massive expeditions just yet, so I'm not super concerned about that, but it bears noting.

And Vita is probably not going to like the whole Feral World thing. Not even a little bit... XD

 

[Neablis]

After a little bit of thought, I've decided to adjust the vote. For now, only vote for the non-plan votes. Then we'll do a short little update of the space marine conversation, and then we'll do the full plan vote. This is to allow you to make full plans (including the decision of if you want to do a full diplomatic action with the
Knights of the Crimson Vigil) after the conversation.

Edit: I've also decided to do the Cia and Anexa votes now too. They're not part of the plan vote but will effect it - especially Anexa's level-up will impact any research actions in the coming turns. Sorry to change the vote twice!

How do you respond to the Space marine?

-[] Space Marine: Talk (write in)
This is just one conversation. If you want a full diplomatic interaction you can spend an action later to hammer things out.
-[] Space Marine: Shoot
You can blow them to dust bunnies if you get in range. But they might not let you.
-[] Space Marine: Run
You can't move faster than they can, but they probably won't chase a grand cruiser in a frigate.

What is Anexa's Level 10 reward?

For the first three vote options Anexa's passive action is going to be replaced by her rolling to discount random techs by an amount that scales with level. She'll only level on a crit, in which case she'll probably also unlock a bonus tech from her specialties.
[] Anexa: Master of Many Talents
Doubles specialty capacity & bonuses (so will be able to have 4 specialties, and each give +10 to the dice roll and potentially unlock new technologies when she uses them). This bonus will apply to her passive action, which will only work on specialties.
[] Anexa: Jack of All knowledge
Anexa now contributes +level/3 (round up) to the research roll in addition to additional RP. Her passive action gets this bonus and can hit any tech.
[] Anexa: High Throughput Researcher
Anexa contributes +10xlevel RP to research actions. The passive action discounts techs more, but has no bonus.
[] Anexa: Industrial Planner
Anexa's secondary action becomes one that improves construction actions, contributing +5xlevel% BP to a construction action.

Do you allow Cia to train her powers through
combat?

[] Cia: Yes
She will begin training her psyker powers in simulated combat against bots and target dummies. This means that she will specialize towards personal combat, more of a champion role. But she'll be less able to use large-scale psytech and won't lean into commanding as much.
[] Cia: No
She will continue training her powers in a more general context, aiming for the ability to summon and control her powers in any situation. She will be less specialized towards personal combat, and better at using big psytech for things like destroying ships. If you intend to build her towards a commander or strategic-level tool this is probably better.

I've shortened the vote. 16 more hours of moratorium, 14 hours of voting.

 

[DragonParadox]

My thinking was for the manual factories, was to give them more practical hands-on engineers/mechanics. This will give them a large population of people who really get the technology. I am mildly concerned that our manufactories are too black boxed and they might skip over some critical understanding.

But I might be making mountains out of molehills here. If we go with a diplo + 3 research we will have 655 RP and my outline only uses 500. We could slide OMC in there and then use one of the flex actions to get the follow on industrial research

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Their long term problem is that their total population is tiny on a sector scale, if you allow them to use it more efficiently with OMC all that's going to do is make more factories, the ramp up is going to be the same in raw numbers of workers.

 

[zack omega24]

And a 6 for the first faction you run into. Fascinating.

This is going to be an interesting turn. A good turn for beans. I'm almost certainly not going to finish the update tonight.

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Out of curiosity, can we know what the other options were?

 

[Speedemon22]

Definitely talk no Jutsu with the Astartes. no need to make enemies so soon. I believe we have a solid introduction at this point, yeah?

 

[Speedemon22]

Out of curiosity, can we know what the other options were?

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Nah, he already answered my question about that and that'd be spoilers.

 

[DragonParadox]

Not that I'm saying we do it, but if we are going to fight we should attempt to incapacitate the ship, board it for information, tech and prisoners not just explode it.

 

[Angle]

Out of curiosity, can we know what the other options were?

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We have the list from character creation:

-[X] Sector Civilizations
--[X] A Space Marine Chapter (+1 shiny)
--[X] A Tyranid splinter fleet (+2 shinies)
--[X] Demon World (+2 shinies)
--[X] An Awakened Necron Tombworld (+2 shinies)
--[X] An Aeldari Maiden world on good terms with the craftworlds. (+1 shiny)

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Seems there's an extra single option from the two random rolls, but I assume we have to go find them if we want to know what we're dealing with.

 

[Nightlord256]

Okay, this will make things easier to plan. We should get a rough sense for how friendly or not they are willing to be from a short call. Here is my first pass at it.

-[] Space Marine: Talk (write in)
This is just one conversation. If you want a full diplomatic interaction spend an action to hammer things out.
"Hail, Sergeant Cyras of the Knights of the Crimson Vigil. I am Vita, speaking on behalf of those who dwell in the Denva system. We mean you no harm and are not enemies of the Emperor—this world was abandoned to its fate long ago, and I have worked tirelessly to preserve it from threats both within and beyond. We welcome dialogue so we may clarify our intentions and ensure the security of Denva. Please, let us speak further so that we might find common ground."

Points of guidance for the conversation:

• We do not claim ownership of Denva, but it is under our protection
• If it becomes relevant explain our public backstory (we are a DAoT explore that recently came out of stasis, we want to help and explore)
• We are curious to know why they are here after the imperium left for so long
• We would like to have a deeper diplomatic conversation with them to open relations with their chapter.

How do people feel about this?

 

[Neablis]

Edit the second: @Neablis (sorry for the double tag), would it take a diplomatic action to handover our factories with OMC?

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Hmm. No, but it would help them significantly with rollout. Probably accelerate the adoption & widespread usage of the technology by ~10-30 years depending on rolls (yours and theirs).

@Neablis, any reason to worry that given them OMC factories would harm their long term understanding of the underlying engineering?

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No. If anything it would improve it - they would be able to do more work with less manpower, meaning they had more manpower for training & education. It's also probably easier to learn technical stuff if you can literally plug the machine into your brain and use it like an extension of your body. It's not intended as a teaching tool but if they adopt it on the wide scale they will absolutely develop a culture around teaching people with it.

Edit: the same is true of other stuff. If you give them cybernetics it'll also change their culture, basic brain implants will also have a moderate-to-large impact.

Out of curiosity, can we know what the other options were?

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No. Spoilers. The dice table was weighted by who's nearby and active, and I don't want you to know that yet.

 

[Toboe]

Their long term problem is that their total population is tiny on a sector scale, if you allow them to use it more efficiently with OMC all that's going to do is make more factories, the ramp up is going to be the same in raw numbers of workers.

Click to shrink...

With the politics from the nat 100 (+20):
More factories -> better living standards and/or more space exploration.

 

[Aineko]

Okay, this will make things easier to plan. We should get a rough sense for how friendly or not they are willing to be from a short call. Here is my first pass at it.

-[] Space Marine: Talk (write in)
This is just one conversation. If you want a full diplomatic interaction spend an action to hammer things out.
"Hail, Sergeant Cyras of the Knights of the Crimson Vigil. I am Magos Vita, speaking on behalf of those who now dwell in the Denva system. We mean you no harm and are not enemies of the Emperor—this world was abandoned to its fate long ago, and I have worked tirelessly to preserve it from threats both within and beyond. We welcome dialogue so we may clarify our intentions and ensure the security of Denva. Please, let us speak further so that we might find common ground."

Points of guidance for the conversation:

• We do not claim ownership of Denva, but it is under our protection
• If it becomes relevant explain our public backstory (we are a DAoT explore that recently came out of stasis, we want to help and explore)
• We are curious to know why they are here after the imperium left for so long
• We would like to have a deeper diplomatic conversation with them to open relations with their chapter.

How do people feel about this?

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Is naming ourself Magos but also saying we come from the Dark Age of Technology, before the Mechanicus, compatible?

Does Ancient Explorer Persona Vita claim any title, as such?

 

[Nightlord256]

No. If anything it would improve it - they would be able to do more work with less manpower, meaning they had more manpower for training & education. It's also probably easier to learn technical stuff if you can literally plug the machine into your brain and use it like an extension of your body. It's not intended as a teaching tool but if they adopt it on the wide scale they will absolutely develop a culture around teaching people with it.

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Thanks Neablis! I think I play too much battletech, was worried about creating magic black box tech.

@DragonParadox @Toboe, with that confirmation I am fully onboard the OMC train.

@Aineko, Magos is a title, which we have publicly claimed on Denva. I figure it's a bit like calling yourself a Doctor when you have all the knowledge, but haven't actually been to college. The people who run the college might raise a stink, but most people just care if you can do the job.

That being said, if calling ourselves Magos is a redline for anyone we can change it. At the end of the day we don't need titles, we can just be Vita.

 

[Alectai]

[] Space Marine: Talk
-[ ] You certainly don't believe you're an enemy of the Emperor of Mankind, and you just spent the last few centuries pulling these poor folks from the brink of mutually assured destruction brought on by a cavalcade of incompetence on the part of the ones doing the pull-out. What you are is an Explorer who found herself in an absolute mess after spending an exceedingly long time stuck in a hole in stasis, and you're not looking for any trouble, though that doesn't mean you won't defend yourself or the people who've helped you get back on your feet if pressed. That being said, the records you've managed to access do say good things about the Adeptus Astartes, and we're perfectly willing to cooperate--within reason of course, we'd rather like to get back to our original job of charting the stars sooner or later. (Story: Stick to what's already widely known, and thus can't be proven as bullshit if they slip a listening post in. We're an explorer from ancient times who was stranded here, and while we're not looking for trouble, we'll defend ourselves and others if attacked.)

 

[Questwolf]

I do think we should stick to the ancient explorer story. Not only is it not a lie, but if the Space Marines are unable to coexist with non-imperials then things are never going to work out between us. Still it would be cool to have good relation with them if possible. We do have nids, necrons and demons as neighbors as well. We just have to emphasize that Denva is under our protection witch is really helped by having a big grand cruiser. If I was doing bulletpoints maybe something like this.

- We are an explorer who came out of stasis
- We want to make friends
- Denva is under our protection

 

[Driven by Apathy]

How do you respond to the Space marine? (Part of plan vote)

-[] Space Marine: Talk (write in)
This is just one conversation. If you want a full diplomatic interaction spend an action to hammer things out.
-[] Space Marine: Shoot
You can blow them to dust bunnies if you get in range. But they might not let you.
-[] Space Marine: Run
You can't move faster than they can, but they probably won't chase a grand cruiser in a frigate.

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Question: What kind of information can we the Knights of the Crimson Vigil expect to derive from Denva Secundus?

For example, if we pretend to be a Mechanicus expedition engaged in a salvage operation of an ancient warship, will they instantly know we're lying because the planet is putting out broadcasts explaining the opposite, or will they be limited to maybe noticing that there's more orbital infrastructure than expected?