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Oh I like this new system! Because it's true most Nation quests has us playing a benevolent dictator in some form. Hopefully with this new mechanic it'll add a new layer of game play and add some internal challenges that aren't traitors/enemy spy's. And it'll be interesting seeing us try to avoid Laws we don't like(and eventually fail on some of them) and support Laws we do like.
 
I do appreciate that we're going to have to be listening to Congress.

Just need people to not call certain political parties traitors just because they support something the players don't. :V
 
Well that is certainly going to be a huge change going forward. I can't say I don't like the idea because that makes this a very unique way of playing a nation quest in a sea of CKII system games. Though I'm not personally sure how it'll all play out.

@PoptartProdigy What kind of tools and systems do we have at our disposal to get things done?
 
Well that is certainly going to be a huge change going forward. I can't say I don't like the idea because that makes this a very unique way of playing a nation quest in a sea of CKII system games. Though I'm not personally sure how it'll all play out.

@PoptartProdigy What kind of tools and systems do we have at our disposal to get things done?
The answer to that is a lot longer than I'm prepared to get into just now, but in general a fairly infant and inefficient state structure.
 
Mmm, that does look interesting. Quick question: how does the PC's personality play into these mechanics?

Like, theoretically speaking, there is a law being introduced that they really, really disagree with on political/ideological grounds. If we as players don't vote to oppose the legislation of this law, will the PC do it anyway by themselves? Will you try to provide a narrative reason for acting out of character? ( aside from "politics, lol" )
 
Fundamentally, the Commonwealth's Presidency is shaped by the national trauma of this quest's America, where the Collapse began with Donald Trump bumbling around with tools he could not begin to understand, much less control. The CFC's President cannot battle with or ignore Congress, secure in their position as being accountable to the electorate, and then only every four years. Instead, they serve at the pleasure of Congress, and may be removed if they act against Congress's wishes.
If the president is Congress' handpuppet that doesn't matter though? What matters is how often the members of Congress can be replaced, since the President is just their minion and must do the will of whoever holds the majority needed to appoint and remove them in the first place.

Also, in regards to the historical perspective, the Senate. Just that.
 
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Understandable. But presumably it's one different from the CKII structure we'd been working with prior to this?
I mean, we're already different from the standard implementation of the CKII system in a few key ways, but if you're asking if the mechanics of play are due for a fundamental overhaul, no. This is an extra layer of play, not a total rework.
Mmm, that does look interesting. Quick question: how does the PC's personality play into these mechanics?

Like, theoretically speaking, there is a law being introduced that they really, really disagree with on political/ideological grounds. If we as players don't vote to oppose the legislation of this law, will the PC do it anyway by themselves? Will you try to provide a narrative reason for acting out of character? ( aside from "politics, lol" )
The option to oppose will appear and not go away. I won't force you to do anything unless it's a case where Congress is putting their heel down. People can hold their nose on a lot of things. I can make that fit, IC.
If the president is Congress' handpuppet that doesn't matter though? What matters is how often the members of Congress can be replaced, since the President is just their minion and must do the will of whoever holds the majority.
By that logic, no head of government in a parliamentary system is of any significance, and Angela Merkel's impending retirement is a baffling waste of space in headlines.
 
In other words, the President governs with the consent of Congress but so long as they have that consent they possess vast authority to set the agenda and implement policy at their discretion.
 
By that logic, no head of government in a parliamentary system is of any significance, and Angela Merkel's impending retirement is a baffling waste of space in headlines.
You are the one who made it out to be "President against Congress". If it's actually going to be "party or parties control Congress and the leader among them is President", then we should have much more freedom in our actions than you described. Simply because no one would ever get to be President without having a lot of influence over their party, and therefore a strong ability to determine which laws get passed at all. And recalling a President of your own party would be a huge own goal so long as they don't go completely rogue in their actions.

But instead you made it sound like Congress would pass laws without much in the way of input from us at all, recall us at the first sign of defiance and it'll take extraordinary effort to get the influence that in a normal parliamentary system we'd need to have before we ever became the head of government.
 
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This feels kinda tautological/Ouroboros-like, because IIRC a lot of the character/flavour behind Congress and its political parties originally came from player debate. So now stuff based off of player debate is going to mandate what players do - once the extra steps get taken out it's just players doing what players are/were in favor of doing.

Maybe set up a visible/transparent system/mechanic for QM/populace-generated positions and ideas to be introduced to Congress? Not perfectly, but something along the lines of a rumor mill or opinion poll so things aren't quite coming from a vacuum.

Also, if Congressional factions and opinions are going to be a major factor in play, we as players should probably have better access to knowledge of Congressional factions and politics in the Status screen - party names, percentage support, and a handful of rough descriptors like (Socialist-Social Democrats) just isn't good enough and expecting people to dig through old posts to learn who's in what faction and what exact policies given factions do or do not support isn't really reasonable.
 
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Okaaay, so fairly broad freedom of action from the perspective of personal constraints and preferences.

And, go with me on this one, Congress Laws are not actually that different from mandatory questlines and win/lose conditions. I think that just changes the format from a nation-building quest to a more personally driven one? I mean, it's us playing a President who has a job and needs to do things to not get fired, on the backdrop of post-apocalyptic America slowly crawling its way out of the hole it fell into.

I could play that, I believe.
 
I have no real problem with this, save that we should encourage widespread voting and democratic norms as much as possible, which I'm pretty sure we were already down for.

Frankly, it's been long enough since we started this quest and enough has happened in the real world that I think some of us may have diverged from our initial position. I, for instance, have moved further left and and am considerably more concerned with democratic engagement than I was at the time.
 
Clarifying some things from Discord: this is not an overhaul of mechanics. This is an extra layer of play. New mechanics, not replaced mechanics.
In other words, the President governs with the consent of Congress but so long as they have that consent they possess vast authority to set the agenda and implement policy at their discretion.
Basically.
You are the one who made it out to be "President against Congress". If it's actually going to be "party or parties control Congress and the leader among them is President", then we should have much more freedom in our actions than you described. Simply because no one would ever get to be President without having a lot of influence over their party, and therefore a strong ability to determine which laws get passed at all.

But instead you made it sound like Congress would pass laws without much in the way of input from us at all and it'll take extraordinary effort to get the influence that in a normal parliamentary system we'd need to have before we ever became the head of government.
Of course you have influence. I specifically lay out the mechanics by which you can exercise it. Your influence just isn't infinite, and you are, influence or not, capable of disagreeing with the majority opinion of Congress. Thus, we now have mechanics laying out how that would be dealt with.
This feels kinda tautological/Ouroboros-like, because IIRC a lot of the character/flavour behind Congress and its political parties originally came from player debate. So now stuff based off of player debate is going to mandate what players do - once the extra steps get taken out it's just players doing what players are/were in favor of doing.

Maybe set up a visible/transparent system/mechanic for QM/populace-generated positions and ideas to be introduced to Congress? Not perfectly, but something along the lines of a rumor mill or opinion poll so things aren't quite coming from a vacuum.

Also, if Congressional factions and opinions are going to be a major factor in play, we as players should probably have better access to knowledge of Congressional factions and politics in the Status screen - party names, percentage support, and a handful of rough descriptors like (Socialist-Social Democrats) just isn't good enough and expecting people to dig through old posts to learn who's in what faction and what exact policies given factions do or do not support isn't really reasonable.
The players do not determine the actions of political parties. I may reference members of the thread for what parties broadly associated with those players' political positions might think, but it very much is me pulling from one of many sources to make my own decision.

Me lifting up single, specific players to model the actions of parties in Congress is mostly me memeing.
I have no real problem with this, save that we should encourage widespread voting and democratic norms as much as possible, which I'm pretty sure we were already down for.

Frankly, it's been long enough since we started this quest and enough has happened in the real world that I think some of us may have diverged from our initial position. I, for instance, have moved further left and and am considerably more concerned with democratic engagement than I was at the time.
Honestly, as part of the worldbuilding, each of the Revivalist factions takes a different part of the American legend as their founding attribute. The CFC takes the idea of America's democratic legacy as their founding ideal. And, in the process, take it much, much further than the Old Country ever did.

Of course, ideals, reality. There's plenty to be done.
 
Comrades, we need to claw back our Emergency Powers in order to save America! And there is only one way to do so: Permanent War Communism!
 
Of course you have influence. I specifically lay out the mechanics by which you can exercise it. Your influence just isn't infinite, and you are, influence or not, capable of disagreeing with the majority opinion of Congress. Thus, we now have mechanics laying out how that would be dealt with.
The mechanics you laid out imply that we don't actually have influence, being limited to using our precious actions asking the people who we are supposed to have talked into electing us in the first place to please introduce the legislation they should already know we wanted and sway the votes we should already have since we were indeed elected.

If President is elected by votes in Congress, on a platform of introducing policy, they shouldn't have to scramble to get political support after getting elected. They should already have both a steady voter base of people who put them in their post and several policies which those supporters favored to begin with.
 
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