Remove ads

Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

Voting is open
Reader mode
Yeah guys don't invite NY to our weapons expo because everyone knows NY has a lot of money and even if they don't place a bid on the stuff we what the weapon companies will be increasing the price because, they expect Chicago to have more money because of NY giving us some or they don't care we have a budget and are actively trying to make us choose favorites that will cause issues to try to get more weapons other wrong them in the future.
 
@PoptartProdigy could we set up a joint purchasing commission with FCNY? Both of us have military needs pooling our purchasing power and then dividing up what is acquired to meet each of our needs.

Would this be practical?
 
It's an interesting idea to consider, but my gut instinct would tell me that's not really feasible in this turn. Both Chicage and New York have a tight schedule for my rearmament and a lot of orders to place, so coordinating this in a quick timeframe seems unlikely. Additionally, New York has something weird go on with their weapon orders. Something they presumably want to keep of the books, and something they don't want to tell our state with its rudimentary counterintelligence for now. Insisting we ban a seller is a rather odd request if this is just about not touching their stores.
 
[X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
 
PainRack said:
Does our intelligence know how much Russia has rearmed victoria ??? I mean .. Russian largesse can't be infinite what with world fires happening everywhere with other clients screaming for aid ....
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your primary window into Victoria is via railway operators, intelligence-wise. You had broader penetration into Halifax, but that part of your network had to go silent when Russia retook the city and the Inquisitors moved back in. So right now, what you have is what's being moved around.

So far your agents report that there's been an uptick in heavy freight coming out of Boston. Nothing anybody's been able to look at; the train operators themselves don't inspect the cargoes. Assuming it's all military gear, it's enough that you expect this is the first wave of equipment, likely released from high-readiness stockpiles. Nothing like tanks or jets, not yet, but by the same token you can't say what it is.
Pyro Hawk said:
Aaand people have missed the fact that there's a Moratorium on voting.


How badly would it complicate things compared to just using the veto list? And if we're working together with New York to organise a purchasing agreement, does that actually mean that the overall agreement has more 'weight' or ability to afford multiple purchases for various items because it's the two factions working together?

Basically, what are the advantages and penalties compared to just doing the Veto for New York if you don't mind?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It would throttle the rate at which either of you could procure the equipment you needed, and realistically, it means you're going to have to supplement whatever you buy from USA.PLC with equipment from other sources, because slowing down procurement is not an option for you.

You're not really bargaining jointly here even with this option; you're very much two different states with no groundwork built up in this sort of cooperation and very recent and pressing trust issues. It's more an agreement to slice the pie a certain way.
Red Rationalist said:
@Poptart Write-in suggestion: Swear that you will not purchase arms if you would disrupt shipments to FCNY and offer to put US artifacts as collateral for this promise. These would be transferred and stored within the FCNY for the duration of this contract.
Pros: Shows them a greater commitment to our sincerity and reassures them with an actual collateral in the form of cultural artifacts, thus improving relations far more than just this promise. Surely this gesture would be greatly appreciated.
Cons: This move would be domestically controversial due to ceding artifacts and the resulting sway to a potential revivalist rival during reunification. And if our relations with the FCNY ever deteriorate enough or we are interfering with their purchases, they have the option of taking the artifacts, thus causing damage to reputation and legitimacy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While FCNY has a more Legacy-focused strategy than you, it's not to the point where they're a meaningful concession in the context of critical defense procurement negotiations.
Pittauro said:
..I can barely believe this is really happening!

any chance of Terminus and AtE also updating soon, Poptart? Is this a one-off update, or are you back to stay?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I certainly hope I'm back.
kelgar04 said:
@PoptartProdigy could we set up a joint purchasing commission with FCNY? Both of us have military needs pooling our purchasing power and then dividing up what is acquired to meet each of our needs.

Would this be practical?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Definitely something that the Secretary of State has raised in meetings with you, but it's the sort of thing that takes more time than addressing FCNY's urgency demands, and requires addressing that urgency first.
 
[] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[] Swear that you will not purchase arms if that would disrupt shipments to FCNY. This is a significant gesture of goodwill, but with the world so unsettled, ultimately these may not be terms that anybody can guarantee; if USA sees any more major demand spikes, they'll have to prioritize, and somebody will lose their order.
-[] Allow FCNY to attend the CDE as a buyer so that they can speak to other companies that are there to compete for a full-force procurement contract and will want somebody to buy their things if they can't make the sale with you. This will not be as fast as the arrangement FCNY already had, however, and it will mean that you have competition for contracts instead of being the sole buyer.
 
So... Here's my read on the situation

1 :we are rearming desperately because if we don't do so, we are going to be a mere speed bump for Russia.

2: our 7 year plan is a mix of heavy industrial and infrastructure, intended to build up an economy capable of supporting our new army. This means transport, ammunition and spare parts primarily in this current phase, along with the money to support said force.

We limited by existing economic stresses such as the refugee situation, the need to support fellow revivalists, NOT attract Russian punitive strikes, an inadequate technical workforce and the need to still use our military in ongoing disputes.

3: our politics is limited by too many fires on the board, stepping on other people toes and interfering with other revivalist plans, combined with our weak intelligence agency. Our state department has consistently punched above it's weight in gold, but it's a sysphillian task.

This includes stealing the thunder from NCR slipping the noose from Russia/Japan via the Declaration of Independence artifact. And throwing our weight at the Revivalist conference to show that our voice is dominant.

We were warned that tapping into disporara and foreign arms will be stepping on NY toes and NY is now saying stop it, requiring our State Dept to pull another miracle. Or we be mired in politics again.


Meanwhile, a mixture of political fires, be it War brides, our neighbours wanting to join us or profit from us, others being afraid of us, Minnesota trying to get their final grasp on power, Gary and Detroit fighting over industrial spoils and to be relevant in the new United States, we upset NCR and created a new bloc in the Midwest, we trying to reopen trade to the Mississippi and Atlantic, we don't know what Miami is doing but it's SOMETHING, central and South America is in flux too trying to throw off Russia or change the situation, Japan ,China, NCR and the Pacific bloc have their own Great Game ongoing that might go hot and require our response down the line...



4. Meanwhile, while we do have a functional State Dept and made steps to improve our intelligence agency, we do not have a functional expeditionary military. Our main assets are Toledo divisions which should be demobilised further to improve the economy, we have begun structuring regiments and etc but none of it is actually ready yet and our Army outside of Toledo is primarily Militia based. Very well trained, equipped and supported by a large artillery arm with combat experience and procedures tested by war, but we HAVE stood them down and disbanded the Devil Brigade so as to build the academies and force structure of a new military. Which we need the new arms to expand...


The navy was overworked, but they performed marvelously. But they still a brown navy and so can't help New York effectively . We have riverine boats to sail down the river, but we don't have the basing/local support to do so effectively. Especially since risk of gunboat diplomacy, although given our status as revivalists, we might find people wanting our gunboats there.


The Airforce got a sudden boost in capabilities, but we also exhausted our surge potential in the Detroit war. Old frames like the phantom and etc has to be retired and extremely old, fatigued planes like F16 should be replaced. If not, flying them in a war is likely to have a high casualty rate due to accidents. Peacetime can give us the time to prevent this but not during war.


We do have Cessna's and recon elements and finally, we have a hidden trump card, F22. Which will be our ONLY means of contesting 6th gen aircraft, aka Russian or Chinese/European/Japanese. We desperately need to upgrade our Airforce, but we don't have the funds/AP to do so. We looted Victoria and got lots of hard currency that can be spent overseas, our money is also going to be increasingly accepted in the US but the things we want are very expensive. For the Airforce anyway.


We desperately need more drones/Comms sensors to improve our artillery park. We also should invest in SPG to make it more mobile. We heavily reliant on technicals and strike vehicles for the majority of our units, we disbanded the Devil Brigade...


So here's my one question @PoptartProdigy


Do we still have OWE charges of M1 tanks and etc? I mean, we have the gear still, keeping them functional shouldn't be THAT difficult in peacetime....


That answer will affect how badly we need the new arms now and how much we need to risk upsetting new York..
 
Last edited:
Pittauro said:
...so we effectively gave them a chance to prepare and HOPE, and then accidentally left them vulnerable when we removed the source of hope.

That sucks.

we need to fix this somehow.

I think they need the guns more urgently than we do. Maybe we can make a joint order, and they get the majority of the first few shipments?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As I understand it the issue didn't start with us, it's that USA PLC saw we were putting out feelers and stopped their shipments to FNCY in the hopes of getting a better deal.
 
PainRack said:
We were warned that tapping into disporara and foreign arms will be stepping on NY toes and NY is now saying stop it, requiring our State Dept to pull another miracle. Or we be mired in politics again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
to be fair we didn't expect NYC's suppliers with a special deal to keep guns in reserve for them to go and decide they could just sell them to us instead.

Nor did we expect NYC to need them quite THIS urgently to basically both deter a Victorian invasion AND to quell the internal unrest!
 
Pittauro said:
to be fair we didn't expect NYC's suppliers with a special deal to keep guns in reserve for them to go and decide they could just sell them to us instead.

Nor did we expect NYC to need them quite THIS urgently to basically both deter a Victorian invasion AND to quell the internal unrest!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes again this could have been prevented if our NY contact or diplomacy team or whatever told us that they were off limits or that we will have a discussion on the situation, but either way I'm more than fine looking at what NY get what it whats then look at the stuff left and see if we want it at all actually or some chinese or europe company is offering something better or something cheaper and is easier for us to make replacement parts as well.
 
Huh, looking back at the post.

PoptartProdigy said:
There's also something...odd...about how they're going about this. The urgency you can understand given their stated position, but there's an almost frantic edge to them. You don't think they're telling you everything about the situation, but you think they're scared. Not just of Victoria.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, the FCNY seem really sketchy with how desperate and scared they are that they will be cut off from their reserve of arms. I wonder if this is because of an internal problem or external one. I suppose that if it's an internal problem, it's most likely the dropping morale on the Bronx Line. It seems like most of the units on the line are basically almost combat-ineffective due to low morale. If external, perhaps the FCNY. Is trying to supply weapon and equipment to the Victorian Resistance in addition to their own defense and that is why they are so desperate for equipment?
 
Last edited:
Restestsest said:
Huh, looking back at the post.



Yeah, the FCNY seem really sketchy with how desperate and scared they are that they will be cut off from their reserve of arms. I wonder if this is because of an internal problem or external one. I suppose that if it's an internal problem, it's most likely the dropping morale on the Bronx Line. It seems like most of the units on the line are basically almost combat-ineffective due to low morale. If external, perhaps the FCNY. Is trying to supply weapon and equipment to the Victorian Resistance in addition to their own defense and that is why they are so desperate for equipment?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Did you not see in the update that they are also very concerned because they might have to get weapons from criminals which there government has done a ton to keep them out?
 
honestly it seems we just had bad luck to pick the worst turn to do this from FCNY's perspective. A turn earlier and they are not as committed to rearmament and can hide their attempt. A turn later and they have the guns they need. Unfortunately we got them right when they were halfway. To far to stop but to early to be safe.

And I personally don't blame NY for not going around and telling people that they are going to start secretly rearming. Even for allies that's the sort of thing you tell them after unless you are 1000% sure that Victoria or Russia doesn't have the slightest chance of catching you.
 
I'm okay with this unless someone else has a write-in that is better than this option. Is the moratorium over?

[X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
 
Last edited:
PoptartProdigy said:
FCNY, at extravagant and ongoing expense, managed to secure an agreement for USA to hold large stockpiles of equipment reserved for them, to be shipped express at need
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So FCNY already bought a pile of guns that are sitting in British warehouses, and the people storing the guns for them are trying to re-sell NY's stuff to us?

That isn't even a hard choice. Ban them. If they backstabbed NY, why would we want to deal with these guys?

Also, the most important part of what NY has on order will be heavy fortress guns, and not at all the sort of stuff that we need for the more mobile fights we'd be getting into with the Vicks. Dragging big artillery pieces over open ground is just asking for Russian volunteers to rain death from above.

And while we don't know about the NY cops turning to criminal elements to obtain weapons, a criminal group that even has enough hardware to make a difference for a bunker system is damn serious. As in, they are probably more of an unrecognized quasi-state actor like we are, rather than a mere criminal group. Maybe the Caribbean pirates we've heard whispers of?

Regards,

fasquardon
 
[X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
 
[X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
-[X] Allow FCNY to attend the CDE as a buyer so that they can speak to other companies that are there to compete for a full-force procurement contract and will want somebody to buy their things if they can't make the sale with you. This will not be as fast as the arrangement FCNY already had, however, and it will mean that you have competition for contracts instead of being the sole buyer.

First is preferred, since the USA is already supposed to be supplying those weapons to the FCNY, and they probably have a greater demand for heavier weapons than us anyways.
Second is mostly just there for a olive branch, to show that we consider the defense of the FCNY to be just as important as the commonwealth for the resurrection of America, while at the same time allowing them to get their hands on needed equipment as well.
 
Model DC.14F said:
[X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
-[X] Allow FCNY to attend the CDE as a buyer so that they can speak to other companies that are there to compete for a full-force procurement contract and will want somebody to buy their things if they can't make the sale with you. This will not be as fast as the arrangement FCNY already had, however, and it will mean that you have competition for contracts instead of being the sole buyer.

First is preferred, since the USA is already supposed to be supplying those weapons to the FCNY, and they probably have a greater demand for heavier weapons than us anyways.
Second is mostly just there for a olive branch, to show that we consider the defense of the FCNY to be just as important as the commonwealth for the resurrection of America, while at the same time allowing them to get their hands on needed equipment as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree with you on the first point but I feel like the second point is unnecessary and might give away too much bargaining power. USA, PLC, should definitely be forced to prioritize the FCNY first for the equipment that the FCNY already bought. However, CFC is a much larger polity than the FCNY, we need those weapons contracts from whoever we can get. I would rather not fight the FCNY for more contracts than necessary. I think the first point is enough of an olive branch.
 
[] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
-[] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.

Changed my vote
 
Last edited:
By allowing the FCNY to join as a buyer sounds like a trap to me. By having two buyers, the companies can charge more which will leave us both with less spending power. It's a nice gesture but it would ultimately weaken both polities.
 
Remove ads
Vote’s Open!
  • Voting
    • A clarification: FCNY's plan is not to simply turtle, because Times Square is within artillery range of the border with Victoria. Turtling is not an option. The fortifications are there to slash the opening Victorian assault to ribbons so that FCNY can slam a counterattack a hundred miles deep into Victoria in all directions. They need a full military package. Agreeing to let them veto categories they consider absolutely critical is going to be a significant concession, because while it is conceivable they may think some things are expendable to the plan if it means they don't have to burn bridges with you, they're unlikely to decide that their fast and deep offensive will not require, say, tanks. Bear it in mind.
    PainRack said:
    Do we still have OWE charges of M1 tanks and etc? I mean, we have the gear still, keeping them functional shouldn't be THAT difficult in peacetime....
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yup!
    Well, a bit later than I meant, but vote's open! Options below, with write-ins:

    [ ] Yes. You aren't happy about cutting a major supplier of American-descended hardware -- reportedly one of the major suppliers of that hardware -- out of your market, but FCNY has convinced you that their need is truly dire. And, while they're not making threats yet, you don't especially want to test the goodwill of one of the other major nerve centers of the Revivalist movement, not while preparing for a massive war with Victoria.
    [ ] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
    -[ ] Swear that you will not purchase arms if that would disrupt shipments to FCNY. This is a significant gesture of goodwill, but with the world so unsettled, ultimately these may not be terms that anybody can guarantee; if USA sees any more major demand spikes, they'll have to prioritize, and somebody will lose their order.
    -[ ] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
    -[ ] Allow FCNY to attend the CDE as a buyer so that they can speak to other companies that are there to compete for a full-force procurement contract and will want somebody to buy their things if they can't make the sale with you. This will not be as fast as the arrangement FCNY already had, however, and it will mean that you have competition for contracts instead of being the sole buyer.
    -[ ] Offer to jointly approach USA.PLC with an agreement that FCNY will have a specific, majority proportion of any available deliveries for the first few years, with the balance shifting to you as time goes on. Requires that you each will need to purchase elsewhere to complete your armament plans, as there is not enough USA.PLC for the both of you.
    -[ ] Invite FCNY to the CDE and also give them the right to call dibs. If you choose their choice, you will either lose the sale or have the opportunity to try to renege.
    -[ ] Offer to directly compensate FCNY for the loss. You do not have anything like the resources for this.
    -[ ] Write-in. Tag me with ideas so I can clearly represent what the advantages and drawbacks would be.
    [ ] Refuse outright. You will not handicap your procurement efforts like this.
     
  • Voting
    • [X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
    -[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
     
    [X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
    -[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
     
    [X] Negotiate. You don't want to put FCNY out, but you can't just ban a major arms manufacturer sight unseen. You have to arm up, too. Pick any of the following you like:
    -[X] Offer to restrict any purchases from USA to hardware FCNY deems to be non-critical to their immediate deterrence needs. This could complicate your procurement strategy and would affect your bargaining power going into these critical negotiations, but would offer FCNY a guarantee that you simply will not impinge on the supplies they most need.
     
    [X] Yes. You aren't happy about cutting a major supplier of American-descended hardware -- reportedly one of the major suppliers of that hardware -- out of your market, but FCNY has convinced you that their need is truly dire. And, while they're not making threats yet, you don't especially want to test the goodwill of one of the other major nerve centers of the Revivalist movement, not while preparing for a massive war with Victoria.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Voting is open
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top