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excellent. I wonder if it's just going to be recently bought planes? or if they managed to do some kind of spreading computer virus? Either way, I suspect that +1 for air supremacy the vics had might start going away.
Well, they'll probably still get it from their prop plane scouts (unless we want to risk our last four functional aircraft), since they can use them for aerial recon. But at the very least, their Air Supremacy shouldn't escalate to the point of providing massive bonuses between sabotage and having pretty much no anti-ground munitions aside from cannons, and after one or two rounds of combat, will probably fall back to providing only a small bonus as their jet planes start failing.
 
huh, so if cali got really clever and did somethign sneaky with the software, they might be able send a signal and have the last few flights of f16's they sold to the vics fall out of the sky. Assuming it would be easy to program the computer to wipe itself/turn off if it receives a signal.
There is no limit on how hard the Californians could have sabotaged those F-16s in theory, with malice aforethought. The practical limit is defined by the fact that the NCR wants to not get caught, or at least not get caught by the Russians before it's too late for the Russians to investigate and learn of the upcoming rebellion.

Frankly, it would be easier to program them to all fall out of the sky on a pre-designated date or something, and more likely not to be noticed, than to do it in response to an outside signal. In the normal course of things, the flight computer has no reason to be connected to outside communications, after all; it's concerned ONLY with maintaining the stability of the aircraft, so while it surely has an internal clock chip (or could be made to have one) there's no reason for it to even be connected to, say, the radio.

But... God only knows what-all the Californians did, given how ignorant the people they're 'selling' to are.

Speaking of which, what role do you see the Big Red One (mostly Devil Brigade with OWE) doing at the first line?
Mobile reserve force to counter any breakthroughs supported by armor, or possibly overwhelming numbers of infantry. That's especially true if the CMC division comes over the river, because (importantly) they probably have amphibious BTR vehicles with armor and autocannon. We need the Devil Brigade's tanks to engage those from long enough range to take them out effectively.

While letting a mechanized or armored division wreak havoc would be bad news, we've done surprisingly well for ourselves so far and we can well afford to give up a lot of ground, and the OWE is an irreplaceable trump card. We cannot buy more of it at any cost.

Thus the best use for it, in my opinion, is held in reserve for until we NEED it for something critical, to stop a massive disaster or break open the enemy lines at a critical moment in a long campaign. Wait until we absolutely NEED to wallop the Russians advancing on Chicago Right Now. Or We NEED to smack around whoever has that nuke we passed up in nation creation before they get ideas about setting it off, Right Now.
The problem is that if we never expend our resources to buy ourselves advantages, we risk losing other valuable things that could increase in value exponentially over time. Winning hard here, shattering the enemy army very thoroughly, breaking a CMC division they'll have to work hard to replace and re-equip, avoiding circumstances that could get a large chunk of our navy sunk and so on? That's valuable. The advantages we gain from that will snowball over time.

By contrast, sitting on a big pile of advanced weaponry that we polish and polish and may never actually get desperate enough to lose unless we're exceptionally unlucky? No advantage in that.

Plus, as others noted, the relative value of the Old World Equipment will decrease over time if we find foreign suppliers for our weapons, if the Victorians finally pull their heads out of their asses and start upteching, or as we start making better tech and training better troops ourselves.

Among other things. Abrams tanks, for one. Strykers. M4 carbines. In this particular instance, everything the Devil Brigade in particular would need to fill its order of battle.
M4 carbines aren't so good, or so hard to make, that we wouldn't be able to replace them.

I'd figure on the special Old World Equipment being the vehicles (which are on their last legs and kept going by a loooot of very careful maintenance and in many cases hand-fabrication of custom made parts), and especially ammunition.

So like, the barrels on our tank guns? Those are the last 120mm gun barrels. We have no more after that. The Javelin antitank missiles that the Devil Brigade's infantry can use to smash fortifications or armor? We're nearly out. There's no resupply of those things, beyond what the Devil Brigade and its support units brought with them.

That is the stuff that we can plausibly use up, to the point where by the time we expend our fifth charge of Old World Equipment, we have no tanks with working guns, no guided missiles left to put on the launch racks, et cetera, et cetera.
 
So we probably don't want to play with gunboats that are likely to sink, which means we'd more or less have to restrict our chibi monitors to harbor patrol and river duty.
However. CHIBI MONITORS.
Okay.
Steel hull. 60-69 tons. 8-10 man crew. 6 foot draft, 83 foot length.
1x 20mm autocannon + 5× machineguns + 1x 81mm mortar.

Served in Vietnam on the Mekong, in the Phillipines along it's coast, and the coastline of the continental US under the Coast Guard.
79 were built. Not one was lost to weather conditions.
If you're looking for something light and cheap for bandit patrols, this will do.

Vic warfighting boats are a different design.
 
Giving it some thought, if the NCR is as smart as we hope, they sabotaged the jets with Victorian expectations and habits in mind.

For example, if all the missles and guided bombs have terrible range and accuracy, the Vics would never notice because that's exactly how they expect missiles and guided bombs to act.

Maybe their airforce can tell the difference. Maybe. But even if they have the balls to voice those complaints, they'll be ignored and likely punished. For making excuses, for relying on technology, or both.

As another example, what's the most macho thing a fighter plane can do? Get in a dogfight with machineguns. Failing that get in low enough to attack the guys on the ground that they can shoot back with pistols.

So, carefully screw around with their instrument panels, but keep the blackboxes accurate. When the Ruskies investigate they'll see Vics knocking themselves out from g-Forces or ramming into the ground because they're macho idiots.
 
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I was imagining "oops a rag left in one of the engine panels that eventually goes into the engine". "Oops, we didn't notice that cracked instrument panel sealant". "Huh the whole batch of guidance microchips have an off by one error. Eh, old tech, you know, we're not sure why it's wrong just ship it."
 
Canon Omake: Dispatches From Detroit-5b
Dispatches from Detroit- 5b

Fire Fighters

"Last time i worked on paycheck instead of charity was, oh, forty years ago but we're the fucking firefighters, and Detroit is not going to fucking burn down, so long as someone wears the hat"" Those of you from Detroit might remember that as the title of my article on the Volunteer Fire Fighter Brigade and it's Chief Mike (never Michael, Michael is a Victorian name). Forty years, ups and downs, sometimes the city had enough to at least buy equipment, sometimes they didn't. But they always stuck through.


I visited him again today, which might be surprising. It's miserable weather, and I don't move around easily in the best of days. I think, in the midst of all my thoughts on civilians and helplessness, I wanted to see one who wasn't. Here was Mike, talking about the Brigade running drills for bombs, and holding seminars in town hall about evacuations procedures. He was doing more than waiting, and I wanted to get his take.


When I asked him how he was holding up, he said he was pretty well, still no bombs, but lots to do shuffling people across the river. Said he couldn't claim he hadn't received a check, apparently, after my article the city went and made his position official, rest were volunteers, but not him anymore. He thought about refusing but well, some of the others could use the money, so he passed it along. Says my article lost him his favorite quote.


I asked him how he dealt with it all. He said it was mostly keeping busy. I talked about being able to do nothing, but for him, he was doing something, evacuating for now, later he might have to clear out bombs, though reports were that the Victorian's airforce wasn't likely to bomb them now. He laughed, said I had gotten him a check, that wasn't nothing.


Then he got quiet, first time he looked down. Then he looked me in the eye and said that there was a part of my article that was wrong. He'd told me back then that the Fire Fighters tried to fight every fire, but that wasn't actually true. There were fires… sometimes, people who spoke to loudly against the Victorians, or just those who were near em, sometimes their houses would catch fire. Firefighters learned that those fires tended to kill those who tried to go in, so they took to demolishing houses next to them to prevent the fire from spreading. He wasn't the Chief when that started, but he knew people who had died and never really changed it.


He then perked up, saying that that won't happen anymore. If it's on fire they are going to try to save it now. Sort of like me. I asked him what he met by that, and he said that I wouldn't have written those other dispatches if Victoria wasn't at war with us. But now, now everyone hears Detroit, and Victoria doesn't like that one bit.


We continued for a while, and I went home with a lot to think about. My work, it might not help us win the war, not really. But it is important, I think, at least I've gotten a few fan-mails from it, from Detroit, and from further. Perhaps I can't defeat them in battle, but that's not the only way Victoria exists. It exists in our minds, in the stories they tell us, and that we retell. That you can't stand up to them. That females shouldn't fight. That blacks must be submissive. This story is so important that just telling anther story is enough for them to try to crush you.


In the end, I can tell another story, the story of Detroit. Not Chicago, not the Commonwealth, not the powerful, but Detroit, and so I intend to keep telling that story. As long as you keep hearing from me about Detroit, you know that Detroit still stands. And if we should fall, then the story of the war will be released, ready to haunt both powers that chose us as their battlefield.

----

AN: Wow this was hard. I had a great prompt for this as the quote on discord, by hyGP . It started as an interview or biography, before realizing that that sort of format was just not right for these dispatches, working it into a more introspective piece took a while.
 
Canon Omake: Dispatches From Detroit-5a
Hidden Dispatches from Detroit- 5a
Bombings

Let us start with the facts, my facts. It is a storm outside; the boats are in the harbor and Detroit stands. The facts of my direct contacts trusted and otherwise end there as well. The secondhand reports state that Commonwealth and Victoria are fighting out east, nothing more.

So, with little else to go on, I look outside, the rain pouring, and any sensible person staying in. Perhaps if I were the ace-reporter of a drama I would be out there tracking down leads. Sadly, I am not. The bum leg meant that leads that are chased down tend to manage to run away, so I had to make my way in other ways. Being the type of reporter you can go to, cause they could write a good article, one that made people care, and not write an oh-so-polite one about how they didn't want to talk to you. All my reporting has been working on making sure the leads come to me, or knowing where they will be before they get there, not following them.

Yet now, there isn't much being said. I'm inclined to think the tales of grinding warfare out east are true. People aren't saying much, but it's the silence of little to say, not of people trying to keep mum. Grinding warfare, with little progress for either side, not good enough to celebrate, or bad enough to worry. What was expected. And so I am left here sitting, musing.

I find myself drifting back to winter, some of the Chicago troops were out digging ditches and trenches, saw some myself. Glad to say that we helped in that, though the work of a city doesn't stop because of war so not every hand could be out there. But the thing that I most remember is the Anti-Air. Throughout the city (and beyond, I may not get places fast, but when one has an entire winter you can see a lot of places) Anti-Air was being put up. That was all the Commonwealth, to delicate and valuable to entrust to unskilled labor.

There we a lot of em, in sizes from bigger than a man, to the size of large trucks. Mostly either missiles or guns, though I don't know more, and when I found someone who did know, a military enthusiast, he just started rattling off specs and numbers till I was completely lost. Best I got is missiles were the better ones, but they also might be old and broken.

Honestly, I found what it said more interesting. This was serious hardware, plenty unreplaceable, and much of it wasn't easily mobile once installed. Ditches and trenches are just a few months' work, and troops can always flee, but this, this was the first thing that felt like it was saying, yeah, Chicago intends to win this, or at least make Victoria bleed. To risk something that can't be fled with. Given it was Victoria, and we all half expected Chicago to not really show up, it felt comforting.

I found it odd, how much when talking with us the Commonwealth seemed to be focusing on showing off their Anti-Air. Saying how it would deal with the Victorian air. Talking it up in that way that someone who is worried does. It was odd, to realize that they were more worried bout the air than the land. For me, I'd never had much to fear air wise, Victorian's always seemed to bully us on the ground, and the survivors of raids described the ground, not the air as where devastation came from, but the Commonwealth was worried.

One of the things they talked about was possible bombings on the city, and to not panic. First time I really heard that phrase, the focus on making sure civilians don't panic. Us being bombed was fine, long as we didn't panic. Perhaps a might cynical of me, but it felt that way. People tend to know I love my books and direct em to me. Read about the blitz in the world wars over a hundred years ago. Most of the authors seemed to think it was a mighty foolish thing, attacking civilians met that they weren't focusing on more important targets. Apparently, civilians can do some good by being bombed. Still, they also talked about Britain coming together and toughening it out in unity and certainty. Can't help wondering if they were really that stoic and if so, can't help but have some envy for em.

Think the other major thing I remember was the Volunteer firefighter brigade. They had been talking with the Commonwealth on bomb disposal and firefighting. Even had seminars on what to do if you got bombed. I remember admiring the hell out of them, here were civilians who were doing something, vital work even, and taking charge. I don't go chasing people much, but perhaps I will see if I can talk to Mike once again, might be nice to see how he's holding up.
 
Dispatches from Detroit- 5b

Fire Fighters

"Last time i worked on paycheck instead of charity was, oh, forty years ago but we're the fucking firefighters, and Detroit is not going to fucking burn down, so long as someone wears the hat"" Those of you from Detroit might remember that as the title of my article on the Volunteer Fire Fighter Brigade and it's Chief Mike (never Michael, Michael is a Victorian name). Forty years, ups and downs, sometimes the city had enough to at least buy equipment, sometimes they didn't. But they always stuck through.


I visited him again today, which might be surprising. It's miserable weather, and I don't move around easily in the best of days. I think, in the midst of all my thoughts on civilians and helplessness, I wanted to see one who wasn't. Here was Mike, talking about the Brigade running drills for bombs, and holding seminars in town hall about evacuations procedures. He was doing more than waiting, and I wanted to get his take.


When I asked him how he was holding up, he said he was pretty well, still no bombs, but lots to do shuffling people across the river. Said he couldn't claim he hadn't received a check, apparently, after my article the city went and made his position official, rest were volunteers, but not him anymore. He thought about refusing but well, some of the others could use the money, so he passed it along. Says my article lost him his favorite quote.


I asked him how he dealt with it all. He said it was mostly keeping busy. I talked about being able to do nothing, but for him, he was doing something, evacuating for now, later he might have to clear out bombs, though reports were that the Victorian's airforce wasn't likely to bomb them now. He laughed, said I had gotten him a check, that wasn't nothing.


Then he got quiet, first time he looked down. Then he looked me in the eye and said that there was a part of my article that was wrong. He'd told me back then that the Fire Fighters tried to fight every fire, but that wasn't actually true. There were fires… sometimes, people who spoke to loudly against the Victorians, or just those who were near em, sometimes their houses would catch fire. Firefighters learned that those fires tended to kill those who tried to go in, so they took to demolishing houses next to them to prevent the fire from spreading. He wasn't the Chief when that started, but he knew people who had died and never really changed it.


He then perked up, saying that that won't happen anymore. If it's on fire they are going to try to save it now. Sort of like me. I asked him what he met by that, and he said that I wouldn't have written those other dispatches if Victoria wasn't at war with us. But now, now everyone hears Detroit, and Victoria doesn't like that one bit.


We continued for a while, and I went home with a lot to think about. My work, it might not help us win the war, not really. But it is important, I think, at least I've gotten a few fan-mails from it, from Detroit, and from further. Perhaps I can't defeat them in battle, but that's not the only way Victoria exists. It exists in our minds, in the stories they tell us, and that we retell. That you can't stand up to them. That females shouldn't fight. That blacks must be submissive. This story is so important that just telling anther story is enough for them to try to crush you.


In the end, I can tell another story, the story of Detroit. Not Chicago, not the Commonwealth, not the powerful, but Detroit, and so I intend to keep telling that story. As long as you keep hearing from me about Detroit, you know that Detroit still stands. And if we should fall, then the story of the war will be released, ready to haunt both powers that chose us as their battlefield.

----

AN: Wow this was hard. I had a great prompt for this as the quote on discord, by hyGP . It started as an interview or biography, before realizing that that sort of format was just not right for these dispatches, working it into a more introspective piece took a while.
Hidden Dispatches from Detroit- 5a
Bombings

Let us start with the facts, my facts. It is a storm outside; the boats are in the harbor and Detroit stands. The facts of my direct contacts trusted and otherwise end there as well. The secondhand reports state that Commonwealth and Victoria are fighting out east, nothing more.

So, with little else to go on, I look outside, the rain pouring, and any sensible person staying in. Perhaps if I were the ace-reporter of a drama I would be out there tracking down leads. Sadly, I am not. The bum leg meant that leads that are chased down tend to manage to run away, so I had to make my way in other ways. Being the type of reporter you can go to, cause they could write a good article, one that made people care, and not write an oh-so-polite one about how they didn't want to talk to you. All my reporting has been working on making sure the leads come to me, or knowing where they will be before they get there, not following them.

Yet now, there isn't much being said. I'm inclined to think the tales of grinding warfare out east are true. People aren't saying much, but it's the silence of little to say, not of people trying to keep mum. Grinding warfare, with little progress for either side, not good enough to celebrate, or bad enough to worry. What was expected. And so I am left here sitting, musing.

I find myself drifting back to winter, some of the Chicago troops were out digging ditches and trenches, saw some myself. Glad to say that we helped in that, though the work of a city doesn't stop because of war so not every hand could be out there. But the thing that I most remember is the Anti-Air. Throughout the city (and beyond, I may not get places fast, but when one has an entire winter you can see a lot of places) Anti-Air was being put up. That was all the Commonwealth, to delicate and valuable to entrust to unskilled labor.

There we a lot of em, in sizes from bigger than a man, to the size of large trucks. Mostly either missiles or guns, though I don't know more, and when I found someone who did know, a military enthusiast, he just started rattling off specs and numbers till I was completely lost. Best I got is missiles were the better ones, but they also might be old and broken.

Honestly, I found what it said more interesting. This was serious hardware, plenty unreplaceable, and much of it wasn't easily mobile once installed. Ditches and trenches are just a few months' work, and troops can always flee, but this, this was the first thing that felt like it was saying, yeah, Chicago intends to win this, or at least make Victoria bleed. To risk something that can't be fled with. Given it was Victoria, and we all half expected Chicago to not really show up, it felt comforting.

I found it odd, how much when talking with us the Commonwealth seemed to be focusing on showing off their Anti-Air. Saying how it would deal with the Victorian air. Talking it up in that way that someone who is worried does. It was odd, to realize that they were more worried bout the air than the land. For me, I'd never had much to fear air wise, Victorian's always seemed to bully us on the ground, and the survivors of raids described the ground, not the air as where devastation came from, but the Commonwealth was worried.

One of the things they talked about was possible bombings on the city, and to not panic. First time I really heard that phrase, the focus on making sure civilians don't panic. Us being bombed was fine, long as we didn't panic. Perhaps a might cynical of me, but it felt that way. People tend to know I love my books and direct em to me. Read about the blitz in the world wars over a hundred years ago. Most of the authors seemed to think it was a mighty foolish thing, attacking civilians met that they weren't focusing on more important targets. Apparently, civilians can do some good by being bombed. Still, they also talked about Britain coming together and toughening it out in unity and certainty. Can't help wondering if they were really that stoic and if so, can't help but have some envy for em.

Think the other major thing I remember was the Volunteer firefighter brigade. They had been talking with the Commonwealth on bomb disposal and firefighting. Even had seminars on what to do if you got bombed. I remember admiring the hell out of them, here were civilians who were doing something, vital work even, and taking charge. I don't go chasing people much, but perhaps I will see if I can talk to Mike once again, might be nice to see how he's holding up.
I am eternally pleased with these things. :D Canon!
 
The Army's weaponry is decidedly non-standardized; what Burns did upon taking charge was standardize a few types of cartridge. He privileged cartridges that the Commonwealth could produce en masse. Below that, he redistributed weapons and hired logistics officers to ensure that, on the company level, at least, gear is standardized. From company to company, it varies wildly, but they're all on one of a few types of cartridge. Within the company, they're on the same cartridge and using the same weapons. Which means that in some places they're using AK47s liberated from a pre-Collapse militia's armory and in another they're wielding original-model ArmaLites.

Intriguing.

Hmm...I suppose since .223 ammo is what would naturally be the cartridge round to standardize on, I wonder if when the option for standard rifles appear we are going to choose between the AR 18 and the Norinco Type 56-S (.223 chambered Type 56 rifle)

...is Norinco still alive @PoptartProdigy ?
 
The Thing (Strategic Resource Spreadsheet)
...so, @Blackstar and @Godwinson made a thing. If you were wondering about materials of, er...

*checks*

...nearly any sort, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The Thing is a table containing a list of several different kinds of resource the Commonwealth likely needs, listing what they are, what they're for, where we can find them, and what we can use as a substitute if we must.

Planners, take note. This one's a hell of a resource.

EDIT: Also, this thing yielded y'all three omake bonuses.
 
Huh. Seems like gunpowder and nitraries will never come into usage in this quest.

Kinda...sad that it's like the art of gunpowder making is dead in this America.
 
Huh. Seems like gunpowder and nitraries will never come into usage in this quest.

Kinda...sad that it's like the art of gunpowder making is dead in this America.
Smokeless powder is the only proper powder, also we would have to fix all of out nitrates anyway, as we can make sulfuric acid and ammonia.
 
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Intriguing.

Hmm...I suppose since .223 ammo is what would naturally be the cartridge round to standardize on, I wonder if when the option for standard rifles appear we are going to choose between the AR 18 and the Norinco Type 56-S (.223 chambered Type 56 rifle)

...is Norinco still alive @PoptartProdigy ?
I haven't the faintest idea how to predict the answer to that question.
 
Intriguing.

Hmm...I suppose since .223 ammo is what would naturally be the cartridge round to standardize on, I wonder if when the option for standard rifles appear we are going to choose between the AR 18 and the Norinco Type 56-S (.223 chambered Type 56 rifle)

...is Norinco still alive @PoptartProdigy ?
Norinco is a Chinese defense corporation.
An important one. It makes the PRC's tanks IIRC. So probably.
Make that definitely.
None of the successor states could afford to let it die.
 
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On sabotaging their aircraft...I had an idle moment where I considered the issue and realized there is one VERY simple sabotage thats almost impossible to detect without systematic, rigorous checking.

Fuck with their lube.
Aircraft lubricants need to tolerate some pretty extreme conditions, and degrade basically constantly in use. But if you replace the lube with a lower grade they won't fail immediately...what happens if you replace it with a slightly less heat tolerant oil?

The oil breaks down faster, and if the performance wigging out isn't noticed or ignored by the need to deploy again right the fuck now...well...results won't be instantaneous, but wear and tear on everything is going to like, triple.
Not a problem when they're just sitting in the hangar for practice flights, but combat missions?
 
...so, @Blackstar and @Godwinson made a thing. If you were wondering about materials of, er...

*checks*

...nearly any sort, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The Thing is a table containing a list of several different kinds of resource the Commonwealth likely needs, listing what they are, what they're for, where we can find them, and what we can use as a substitute if we must.

Planners, take note. This one's a hell of a resource.

EDIT: Also, this thing yielded y'all three omake bonuses.

ok, so giving this a once over, we're actually good for a lot of chemicals, but we are lacking a lot of key minerals. Many of which are not found in America. For fules we have gas, coal and shitty crude oil*, so we can get power plants up but stuff like gasoline and diesel is going to be expensive to make locally.

So we really need to get access to the world market if we want to get our industries up and running. on the plus side, we have some resources we can likely make a profit selling.

*Ironically the shitty oil is why we're good on chemicals. it's great for everything but fule.
 
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...so, @Blackstar and @Godwinson made a thing. If you were wondering about materials of, er...

*checks*

...nearly any sort, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The Thing is a table containing a list of several different kinds of resource the Commonwealth likely needs, listing what they are, what they're for, where we can find them, and what we can use as a substitute if we must.

Planners, take note. This one's a hell of a resource.

EDIT: Also, this thing yielded y'all three omake bonuses.
Pointing out there's chromite, the source mineral for chromium, in Northern Ontario.
And that they're in the process of seeking approval to exploit it with mines and a smelting facility

Distance and climate are issues, but the mines should exist in this TL along with a railroad and highway.
 
Pointing out there's chromite, the source mineral for chromium, in Northern Ontario.
And that they're in the process of seeking approval to exploit it with mines and a smelting facility

Distance and climate are issues, but the mines should exist in this TL along with a railroad and highway.
Yeah, turns out that relying on my memories and the websites that I could access on my currently-wonky-as-hell internet connection resulted in a fair number of not-yet-developed-in-2012 and closed-due-to-unprofitability-rather-than-being-played-out mines not being considered. Though the railroad and highway for that site would almost certainly have been rendered utterly unusable from simply neglect for the past 40+ years.

Anyway, the main thrust of that chart isn't "Do we have any of this resource", because if all else fails and we need some amount, we can always mine a landfill. Instead, the point is "Do we have industrially significant quantities of this resource". Bucket-chemistry production levels at minimum consideration, rather than laboratory production levels.
 
Yeah, turns out that relying on my memories and the websites that I could access on my currently-wonky-as-hell internet connection resulted in a fair number of not-yet-developed-in-2012 and closed-due-to-unprofitability-rather-than-being-played-out mines not being considered. Though the railroad and highway for that site would almost certainly have been rendered utterly unusable from simply neglect for the past 40+ years.

Anyway, the main thrust of that chart isn't "Do we have any of this resource", because if all else fails and we need some amount, we can always mine a landfill. Instead, the point is "Do we have industrially significant quantities of this resource". Bucket-chemistry production levels at minimum consideration, rather than laboratory production levels.
The road yes. Rail is up in the air.

Anecdotal experience in tropical conditions suggest that rail can survive quite a bit of neglect. An industrial scale railroad built to bad weather standards and left unused for forty years may well remain substantially intact barring deliberate sabotage. Intact enough to support our needs at least.

Can't speak for any bridges of course. That requires inspection. Ditto the mines themselves. Smelters probably scrap.


I'll talk more about industry in a couple weeks when I get back home and can type on a keyboard not a screen.
 
The road yes. Rail is up in the air.

Anecdotal experience in tropical conditions suggest that rail can survive quite a bit of neglect. An industrial scale railroad built to bad weather standards and left unused for forty years may well remain substantially intact barring deliberate sabotage. Intact enough to support our needs at least.

Can't speak for any bridges of course. That requires inspection. Ditto the mines themselves. Smelters probably scrap.


I'll talk more about industry in a couple weeks when I get back home and can type on a keyboard not a screen.
Sorry, arctic winters are much worse for rail wear and tear across decades than "a bit" of neglect in tropical conditions. For starters, tropical conditions don't tend to have hundred degree temperature differences between hottest and coldest temperatures in the span of a year. Especially since "built to bad weather standards" often just means "is easily replaced" by a fully industrial society with full access to international markets and proper infrastructure.
 
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Sorry, arctic winters are much worse for rail wear and tear across decades than "a bit" of neglect in tropical conditions. For starters, tropical conditions don't tend to have hundred degree temperature differences between hottest and coldest temperatures in the span of a year. Especially since "built to bad weather standards" often just means "is easily replaced" by a fully industrial society with full access to international markets and proper infrastructure.
Tropical conditions usually means the foundation got washed out by rain, or surface got overgrown. The harm rarely happens directly to the surface...still unusable though, and harder to prevent except by maintenance
 
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