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So regarding congress, can we at least make it so if we want to do something, it has to be done to completion except for specific circumstances? I want to prepare against a potentially reactionary leader or parties undermining our ambitions. For example, if I want us to build or rebuild the railroads, I want it so that no one can stop, defund, or otherwise sabotage the project unless something more important comes up or it currently proves unworkable.
 
So regarding libraries, how easy is it to stockpile and smuggle information? I imagine with even slight improvements in data storage, it would be easy enough to store critical information on flash drives or larger storage devices.
 
Yeah, I don't see Political Favour as being something that allows us to do more. What it allows us to do is work against the desires of the Congress without running into problems or gaining the benefit of having the government work smoothly to achieve what we want. So things like make it so we can found and set up a Federal Investigation Service (not Law Enforcement) despite Congress not wanting that to happen as the public sentiment towards any type of Government Law Enforcement seems to be 'Didn't we shoot those Vickie Sympathisers for a reason?' So we saved up Political Favour by following Congress' desires for a few turns, as that allows us to be able to afford the 'unlock fee' for the required action chain. It also allows things like having the DCs for actions drop because we spent Political Favour to have the Congress lobby their local area to devote resources towards our programs, rather than just leave it up to what federal resources we have.
 
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Politicking takes time and resources. I will not give you political action for free.
But politicking is all the president does, as a human being. It doesn't make sense for that to come out of the national action pool. It's the president's personal actions (to where the choice would be which congress factions or other interest groups to meet with etc)
 
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But politicking is all the president does, as a human being. It doesn't make sense for that to come out of the national action pool. It's the president's personal actions (to where the choice would be which congress factions or other interest groups to meet with etc)
Maybe since we are playing the president signing off on various programs, every action is technically a personal action?
 
It seems that, as described, the system will make it harder for the players to do what they want while actually reinforcing the Enlightened Dictator trope. Because previously we were assumed to be acting with the Congress's support, whereas now it will be cast as the bad guy preventing us, the one person who knows best, from doing what needs to be done.

Some sort of benefit from cooperation ought to be present to both avoid the trope and make things not as frustrating for us.
 
I mean...yeah? The whole point of this system is that there are checks on your power you have not yet experienced. You will now experience those checks. This is the point of the system, so if that is the criticism, I concede the point.

The problem is that your mission statement for this change is the following :
They tend to very much run with the idea that a sufficiently benevolent and competent dictator can, with adequate control over state institutions, fix everything and anything about a nation. Democratic institutions, in nation quests, often get treated as an obstacle to be overcome so that the PC can resume the vital work of fixing the nation; the populace and their input, in short, are treated as nothing but obstructions, a set of boxes you need to check to get back to the real work. It's an easy trap to fall into, and I've fallen into it myself, many times.

I am attempting to push back against it with Victoria Falls.

And yet Congress seems to be exactly that.
Congress is an obstacle, presenting us with a list of tasks that we need to complete, and around which we need to form our own plan.
And, if we want to do our own things, then we need to get Congress to check us some boxes or laws before we can get back and actually do the thing we want.

From the perspective of the player, Congress appears to be at best useless (if they happen to pass laws that do exactly what we want to do) to actively negative (any other situation).

I mean, just compare the previous 4 turns with the upcoming Congress turn. Will the players be more effective, or less effective with the addition of Congress?
If it's the latter (and everything in the rules indicates that it'll be that), then what you're saying is that the problem with a benevolent dictatorship is that we haven't seized power yet, and need to seize power to become more effective.
You don't disprove the effectiveness of a dictatorship by telling the people that being a dictator is effective, but that democracy won't let you be one.
 
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Politicking takes time and resources. I will not give you political action for free.

All parties have political operators, deal makers and the like, so while I understand that it takes time and resources, having some base political actions/turn could also be a thing, the usual horse trading and the like, as opposed to more engaged negotiations

That said I like the idea for the system, playing enlightened despot always leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, and it would be specially egregious here due to the state of the world.
Hope you won't be saddling yourself with too much work
 
So regarding congress, can we at least make it so if we want to do something, it has to be done to completion except for specific circumstances? I want to prepare against a potentially reactionary leader or parties undermining our ambitions. For example, if I want us to build or rebuild the railroads, I want it so that no one can stop, defund, or otherwise sabotage the project unless something more important comes up or it currently proves unworkable.
The big problem with that approach is that it requires the legislature to have some kind of absolute ability to pass binding constraints on future legislature meetings (this is a no-no). Or to have some kind of specified procedure where the president ignores the legislature, which is meaningless because then either you get a vote of no confidence or you don't.

I think we should worry less about "but what if a major political party is actively sabotaging the Commonwealth" (parliamentary systems that allow for coalition governments are good at countering that), and more about, uh... everything else required for the government to function smoothly.

One of the great lessons of the American system as it now exists: Don't build institutions into the government designed around the assumption that the government is going to be sabotaged into the ground. Don't build it to limit what a bad faith actor can do, beyond the normal limits of having constitutional rights and bureaucratic procedures. Don't structure the government itself around minimizing the government's options for Doing The Thing, because this will backfire.

But politicking is all the president does, as a human being. It doesn't make sense for that to come out of the national action pool. It's the president's personal actions (to where the choice would be which congress factions or other interest groups to meet with etc)
... @PoptartProdigy , this is a fair point.

I think that to make the Congress mechanic good, there does have to be some built-in mechanism for at least limited two-way interaction, rather than the Congress just being a quest-giver machine.
 
I agree that a personal 'set agenda' set of actions is probably a good thing, as using ap for them feels very, very off. I think that maybe there could be some options to help set, and some options to 'listen' telling us in more detail what things aren't explicitly on the agenda yet, but getting ahead of would please some congressmen. Pleasing congress means our set agenda actions become more powerful. I also like it because it gives 'tiers' of congressional demands. The highest tier being explicit congressional orders, do this now or be removed. But lower tiers of 'congressional interest' and 'special interest' that we can deal with early to please certain factions or work against so they don't get to the tier of explicit law/order.
 
Way I see it, actual democracy in quest context isn't going to be a thing unless you take to letting players in the thread run for in-universe elections and letting only those that win vote. Since we'll be playing as whoever is in charge, it makes sense IMO to have a system that has to do with pleasing the voterbase (or Congress, which is representative of the voterbase. Hopefully.) For example, in Stellaris, you have "factions", which are sorta like political parties representing ideologies. The factions can be suppressed to reduce their influence and lessen the amount of problems they cause, or they can be appeased through certain policies, which grants "influence", a resource useful for a variety of nice political things.
 
Oh for fuck's sake. The last vote you had featured Johnson getting Congress to sign off on cooperation with Russia just on the strength of her word. Are y'all seriously thinking that because the new rules writeup did not include an explicit, "Influence," stat, that you're now powerless?

Fucking hell.
I'm sorry to say, but the rest of the content of your post goes directly against this by explicitly making it so Congress is an opponent that the players must work against. The President absolutely should, but the players?
Yeah this is kinda lowering my interest. I'm not as pumped up for "lone (wo)man fight congress to get things done. I feel like this is likely to pit the players against democracy rather than play the democracy and create a narrative of enlightened despot needing the damn congress to get out of the way rather than anything fitting for the democracy we've built. I really liked the hints of "our votes are what congress voted with the parties composition" and I don't think this needs to be turned into a full on roleplay to retain that element.

I know writing character focused nation quests is your thing though so I can see where this is coming from.
Definitions of terms:
Government, capital G: The party or coalition of parties that supports the Prime MInister and her administration consistently, and which represents her basis of support in the legislature.
Opposition, capital O: The party or coalition of parties that consistently opposes the Government.

...

Hrm.

Basically, @PoptartProdigy , you're trying to make it very clear that this is (for now) Prime Minister Quest. That makes sense. The trick is making sure that we have the toolkit a prime minister would normally have- in particular, the tool of generally being a member of the party leadership of whichever is the most prominent of the parties forming the Government.

Everyone who's calling the prime minister a "powerless functionary" or "sock puppet" is, frankly, wrong about how parliamentary systems work. But the reason they're wrong is important. It's because the prime minister is chosen by a powerful coalition within the legislature. They are the metaphorical 'point man' for carrying out that party (or coalition's) agenda.

To some extent we've already experienced this!

,,,

Check out @AKuz 's rundown of the parties, which I gather is canonized as of... I dunno, Turn 1? 2?
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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

Victoria Falls The world wakes from a fever dream into a nightmare. Try to find your feet in a devastated North America and find a way to end the dream for good.
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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

Victoria Falls The world wakes from a fever dream into a nightmare. Try to find your feet in a devastated North America and find a way to end the dream for good.

Johnson is the leading figure of a political bloc of three parties: The Commonwealth Progressive Party, the Popular Commonwealth Progressive Party, and the Christian Socialists. These three parties hold 28%, 18%, and 12% of the vote share, respectively, as of the time @AKuz wrote those omakes, giving Johnson a very solid majority (58%) to support her. Now, Johnson herself is a CPP leader, which puts her in the 'right' of the three parties*. Her party is almost as big as the other two combined, but she's had to triangulate further to the left to satisfy her coalition partners.

I've even alluded to this a bit. For instance Sara Goldblum is Assistant Secretary of Defense for Munitions and Johnson has deliberately reined her in when she exerts pressure on certain munitions producers because she's not happy with their output. Because they're co-ops, and she doesn't want to piss off the Christian Socialists. Something similar happened that got that Red Banner place the provisioning contract that resulted in @clockworkchaos 's boatload of Blue Mountain Farmers hilariously getting pelted with a pile of communist literature that they now uneasily edge past as if it were a live bomb.

One great strength of Johnson's coalition is that (again, as of 2074) it occupied a pretty solid position in the center of CFC politics. The parties to the right of them only have about 13% of the legislature (old-school Democrats and old-school Republican remnants, both now marginalized). The party to the left of them (the Commonwealth Farmer-Labor Party) has about 25% of the legislature. The only likely ways for Johnson's Government to go down are if:

1) The balance of votes in the legislature shifts. This might happen as more citizens are brought in, which is a very real consideration given that we've assimilated something like 20-30% of the Commonwealth's 2073 population in just the last 2-3 years.

2) Johnson screws up in some way that causes her own CPP party to abandon her. Say, a corruption scandal (won't happen while she's the PC), or disastrous misfortune in handling some very important national policy item (say, a famine breaking out).

3) OR, the junior partners in her coalition might both ditch the CPP and link up with the CFLP and form a leftist government; they'd have the votes, barely (or more than barely if the balance in the legislature shifts leftward). Now, that might or might not be attractive to the Christian Socialists and PCPP. They might be better off with the CPP, in their own opinions. But it's an issue.
______________________

*(note that even the CPP is still to the left of, say, the 2020 Democratic Party platform. The PCPP and the Christian Socialists are farther to the left)



Now, we've had, in effect, mandates imposed on us. Failure to deal with the famines could have seen Ron Burns in hot water; he might not have been deposed but it would hurt. Failure to deal with the housing crisis or the next round of impending famine could potentially sink Sara Johnson's Government.

To me, the key takeaway is that the most likely "mandates" Johnson would get from the legislature take two forms:

1) Bills passed to deal with pressing crises and major national policy items, where we are expected to deal with the crisis or Johnson gets kicked out of office. This is basically what we already knew we were dealing with, or should have known.

2) Specific measures taken to appease the members of Johnson's coalition. This may take the form of, for example, mandatory AP spending on housing subsidies and welfare programs, DC shifts to certain economic development or military procurement options, and so on.

It is relatively unlikely that we'd see mandates hitting Johnson from either the left or right outside her coalition, simply because she controls a large bloc in the center of Commonwealth politics and no one to either flank of her really has the votes to force anything on her. Except, possibly, the CFLP passing something where Johnson's coalition partners flip to side with the CFLP, and not with Johnson.

@PoptartProdigy , what do you think? Am I more or less analyzing the situation correctly?
Actually, I've slept on it, and how about this?

By successfully completing assignments of the Congress we could earn either: intangible political currency, let's call it "favor", that we could spend on various things, like influencing the legislation, making some checks easier, extending the deadline of some actions, etc. Or just tiered flat mechanical benefits to the same end.

It would serve as an incentive for the playerbase to work together with the Congress instead of against it and as an in-story mechanic highlighting this cooperation and the level of trust in us.

The important part would be that it makes it easier to do the thing the longer we do the thing, but not trivially so, and we still would have the option of spending the acquired benefits if we feel it justified. I can already feel all the salt washing over me, like a fresh breeze of the ocean. :V

I don't think it's so far removed from how the presidency works in a real-life parliamentary system, but I might be and probably am mistaken.
@PoptartProdigy

I think this is a VERY good idea. It emphasizes that Congress is in charge and has authority over the president. Did you ever see OneirosTheWriter's Star Trek quest, To Boldly Go? Think about the political will points that got spent in the yearly Council meetings. Something like that.

Of course there would be external events pushing political capital levels up and down (for instance, Sara Johnson would have lost a LOT of political capital if Blackwell hadn't acceded to the peace treaty as written, and probably did lose some getting everyone on board with the deal with Princess Catherine).
Once again, the rules are not meant to establish that Johnson is the errand girl of the Congress. You are playing the woman who can get the political parties, including much of the opposition, to approve a treaty cooperating with your mortal enemies, just because she said so. Moreover, Turn Four saw y'all using political actions to muster support for a reform to naturalization law. That is the exact process you are going to see.

Fucking hell, the intent of the section on Emergency Powers was to establish that you can't behave as an autocrat and have to work with the legislature. It's not actually anything new, I'm just expanding on elements of play that y'all were thrilled to work with already.

Honestly tempted to just remove it, since apparently clarifying that it's a thing is leading to more confusion than leaving it unstated.
 
Oh for fuck's sake. The last vote you had featured Johnson getting Congress to sign off on cooperation with Russia just on the strength of her word. Are y'all seriously thinking that because the new rules writeup did not include an explicit, "Influence," stat, that you're now powerless?

Fucking hell.

Once again, the rules are not meant to establish that Johnson is the errand girl of the Congress. You are playing the woman who can get the political parties, including much of the opposition, to approve a treaty cooperating with your mortal enemies, just because she said so. Moreover, Turn Four saw y'all using political actions to muster support for a reform to naturalization law. That is the exact process you are going to see.

Fucking hell, the intent of the section on Emergency Powers was to establish that you can't behave as an autocrat and have to work with the legislature. It's not actually anything new, I'm just expanding on elements of play that y'all were thrilled to work with already.

Honestly tempted to just remove it, since apparently clarifying that it's a thing is leading to more confusion than leaving it unstated.
I think this is basically workable as long as you make sure that the Congress isn't just an obstacle, but also a boon sometimes. Also that the players see it clearly. The presentation so far seems a tad lacking.
 
Oh for fuck's sake. The last vote you had featured Johnson getting Congress to sign off on cooperation with Russia just on the strength of her word. Are y'all seriously thinking that because the new rules writeup did not include an explicit, "Influence," stat, that you're now powerless?

Fucking hell.

Once again, the rules are not meant to establish that Johnson is the errand girl of the Congress. You are playing the woman who can get the political parties, including much of the opposition, to approve a treaty cooperating with your mortal enemies, just because she said so. Moreover, Turn Four saw y'all using political actions to muster support for a reform to naturalization law. That is the exact process you are going to see.

Fucking hell, the intent of the section on Emergency Powers was to establish that you can't behave as an autocrat and have to work with the legislature. It's not actually anything new, I'm just expanding on elements of play that y'all were thrilled to work with already.

Honestly tempted to just remove it, since apparently clarifying that it's a thing is leading to more confusion than leaving it unstated.
A bunch of people seem to interpret having "less-than-absolute autonomy and agency" as "is powerless". Questers, amiright?

I'm looking forward to seeing how this shakes out with the CFC's expansion, and how that impacts the current political landscape.
 
Of course they will be a boon. Y'all aren't enlightened dictators. You will make -- you have made -- mistakes sometimes.
Well, here's the thing: nowhere in the explanation you presented is the positive side mentioned. This is, among other things, a strategy game, so the players will naturally disapprove if they think a frustrating negative mechanic is getting introduced out of the blue.

Could you explain to us, explicitly and directly, what positives this system introduces?
 
Well, here's the thing: nowhere in the explanation you presented is the positive side mentioned. This is, among other things, a strategy game, so the players will naturally disapprove if they think a frustrating negative mechanic is getting introduced out of the blue.

Could you explain to us, explicitly and directly, what positives this system introduces?
Because working with the support and approval of a legislature makes it easier to get things done, which is why you are already doing what you will be doing under this system to get the naturalization reforms doing, as opposed to ruling it in by decree and suffering backlash.

Once again, all this does is expand existing systems of play y'all have already engaged with and found entertaining.
 
Because working with the support and approval of a legislature makes it easier to get things done, which is why you are already doing what you will be doing under this system to get the naturalization reforms doing, as opposed to ruling it in by decree and suffering backlash.
You mean that thing that had to be done because it was the only available option to tackle the Refugee Crisis, despite it being glacially slow? Where glacially slow means the action is already finished but the process of things actually happening has not even begun, and it literally took less time to kick Victoria in the face twice over than to solve a simple problem of law.
 
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You mean that thing that had to be done because it was the only available option to tackle the Refugee Crisis, despite it being glacially slow? Where glacially slow means the action is already finished but the process of things actually happening has not even begun, and it literally took less time to kick Victoria in the face twice over than to solve a simple problem of law.
You're on-track to reversing in a year a legislative measure that passed with over 60% approval, less than two years ago.

You're fine.
 
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You mean that thing that had to be done because it was the only available option to tackle the Refugee Crisis, despite it being glacially slow? Where glacially slow means the action is already finished but the process of things actually happening has not even begun, and it literally took less time to kick Victoria in the face twice over than to solve a simple problem of law.
Actually drafting a law is harder to do because of all the interests one has to serve through a naturalization law that the parties want to see. Though it is strange that the parties to the president's left and her own party are practically mucking up the vote for months now because this would be something the whips would ensure they vote in the government line or risk expulsion from their seat.
 
Of course they will be a boon. Y'all aren't enlightened dictators. You will make -- you have made -- mistakes sometimes.
What people need to understand is your were elected by congress to the presidency.

That means by default you have the support of congress. Congress doesn't choose a leader they despise. You already have supporters who are waiting to support your laws and suggestions before the congress. We HAVE people in congress who are on our side, we don't rule alone.

Its just that they are the ones we spend actions convincing to get laws through. Instead of spending an action implementing a law, we spend an action convincing our side to put the law on the floor, and they spend their actions pushing it through or not.

The problem with democracy and why questers often drift to enlightened sun king is that players don't always enjoy letting go of control. They don't trust npcs to make intelligent decisions.

Part of democracy is learning to let go of that control specifically because you trust the other groups to have your best interests at heart.
 
It seems that, as described, the system will make it harder for the players to do what they want while actually reinforcing the Enlightened Dictator trope. Because previously we were assumed to be acting with the Congress's support, whereas now it will be cast as the bad guy preventing us, the one person who knows best, from doing what needs to be done.

Some sort of benefit from cooperation ought to be present to both avoid the trope and make things not as frustrating for us.
This also implies that we the players know what the best course of action is :p
 
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