Voting is open
When I asked about that Prussian revivalist movement, I kind of wanted to know if Prussia had been reestablished as a nation. It's been decades since we saw the Kaiser convince Kraft to run for governor, and I want to know if the Tsar ever got around to fulfilling his end of the bargain.
If I remember correctly, Poptart said at one point they aren't getting Kaliningrad, they have to wait until modern German borders are reached.
dino's correct. The Tsar wasn't parting with Kaliningrad, and since he didn't have the ability to seize Poland, you can imagine how well any attempts to have restored the German nobility would have gone.

Like, Alexander's arrangement with the Hohenzollerns at this point is not a bargain. It never really was. They came to him on the principle of, "Everybody else in a position to help us has told us to go to hell. He's monarchist. Maybe he'll help?"

They have not, since, been at liberty to leave, or breathe without permission. They are all escorted everywhere by Russian security officials, watched at all hours of their day, and everything they say is carefully curated to maximize Alexander's benefit. They serve him not because he's such a great deal for them, but because they have no choice.

And sometimes, they served him by giving instructions to that lunatic loyalist of theirs on the other side of the Atlantic, William Kraft.
 
And sometimes, they served him by giving instructions to that lunatic loyalist of theirs on the other side of the Atlantic, William Kraft.

Sometimes he likes to make them put on a little cap and bells and do a funny dance for him. Sometimes, he liked to dress them up in increasingly ridiculous outfits when having them give instructions of Kraft and see if he notices. He was very sad when he had to have Kraft put down. On the inside at least, outside he had to be the stoic Russian dictator.
 
Behold, I have three TNO style super events for our little quest. Credit must go to @Cyberphilosipher and the New Order mod for the idea. Sadly, these are only images and lack audio.


Obviously, this is for the Battle of Detroit. Not sure what the best song for this one would be.


This is for if the NCR rebels against Russian rule. The audio would be I Love You, California interrupted by artillery fire.


This is for if Hannah Meier becomes chancellor of Germany and reawakes the flame of German militarism. The audio would be the Königgrätzer Marsch, a popular German march that has escaped being tainted by Nazism despite often being used by the Nazis which fits Meier and her German militarist intentions.

Do you have more ideas and suggestions? Feel free to add audio or make videos out of them.
If we go backwards in the timeline from the present, perhaps we could have some for some backstory events.
For example, the splintering of the PRC:
[The Chinese Breakup] "The empire, long united, must divide." [A New Century of Humiliation], with a background picture taken from some of the urban combat that took place prior to Tiananmen Square, and play the Chinese anthem in minor key as background. This would represent the fall of the final peer power to Alexander's empire.
When Chinese reunification happens, you could get another one. I imagine that the canonical unifier (Guangdong, Hong Kong, and Taiwan) would get the following:
[Chinese Reunification] "The empire, long divided, must unite." [The Three Principles, Restored]
However, there could be, like in TNO, a variety of alternative unifiers. For example, the Neo-Maoists out of Sichuan could have their own, or reactionary Ming Restorationists who are actually a thing right now, or a TNO-Novosibirsk corporate dystopia from Shanghai, or a PLA theatre command that took advantage to regain political power. I imagine early on in the canon pathway there was a peaceful reunification between the canonical Pearl River Delta unifier and the PLAN South Sea Fleet command out of Hainan, which gave them early power to not get squashed from Japanese or Russian interference via their carrier fleet and boomer subs.

Since the conquest of South Korea was a big event early on, depending on when a hypothetical VF mod (or prequel) starts you could get a superevent for that, given it was brutal and saw the ROK's military do terrible damage to Imperial Japan on the way down:
[Korean-Japanese War] "Do not go quietly" [The Ghost of Noryang]
The background could be colourized images of the Korean War, and the song played during it could be a Korean patriotic song punctuated by gunfire and bombs.

The Rainbow uprising would be another big event:
[The Rainbow Uprising] "A house divided against itself cannot stand - Abraham Lincoln" [Cascadia Bleeds] Make O'Cascadia, with gunfire, the theme and put an image of soldiers fighting in a pine forest.
That would be followed by the CGP-DAC's campaign:
[The Years of Fire] "How can you have a war on terrorism when war itself is terrorism? - Howard Zinn" [Cascadia Burns] To tie into the previous superevent and to point at the escalating terror of both the DAC and the Japanese military administration.

The nuking of Atlanta should also get one, and a Russian player then needs to play a very tight balancing game as a result:
[Atlanta Bombing] "War is cruelty, you cannot refine it. - William T Sherman" [Whistling Past Dixie] I like the Sherman quote just for the irony of a major Union General who was all about logistics (but also knew how to live off the land) and had an overblown reputation for brutality during the ACW.

Back into the current time period of the quest, I suggest a few, such as if France's civil strife escalated:
[The French Civil War] "Pity is treason. - Maximilian Robespierre" [Yet Another Republic]

Or a hot war between China and Japan:
[The Third Sino-Japanese War] "We shall not lightly talk about sacrifice until we are driven to the last extreme which makes sacrifice inevitable. - Chiang Kai-Shek" [Asia Shall Bleed]
Which can, depending on what happens beforehand, also turn into:
[The Great Asian War] "The Greater East Asian War was righteous and justified. - Hideki Tojo" [Asia Shall Bleed]

A general uprising among Alex's colonial subjects could also be a superevent, which should be like the TNO Slave Revolt reskinned.
 
Last edited:
Even today, fish farming in the open sea is something that places like Norway and Scotland do off their sea coastline

And it is enormously polluting, injurious to the health of wild fish (because of all the disease organisms and parasites that swim through the gaps in the nets) and resource intensive.

Fish farming like that probably isn't viable in the post-collapse world.

There are other methods of fish farming that might be more viable, for example oyster farming, fish farming in the cooling water of sufficiently low-temperature processes. That sort of thing.

Our agriculture is in a sorry enough state that just bringing it up to modern 2070s standards is going to be a long-term project and would be a serious boost just by itself

Given that the Commonwealth's agriculture supported a population of tens of millions through the collapse and has recently surged in productivity due to re-mechanization, I am not sure that further improvements in yield are possible at this point. Though for sure there will be plenty of improvements we can make, these may be more "get the same amount of food for less energy input" or "get the same amount of food with less negative environmental impact" type improvements.

Maybe I misunderstood, but doesn't forcibly depressing spending result in a reduction to people's standard of living, at least in the short term?

In the short term, sure. But the medium and long run benefits here are enormous.

In addition to taxation, forms of forced capital accumulation include mandatory retirement saving, mandatory banking with government-run/government-suborned banks that subsidize loans to businessmen by offering savers artificially low rates of interest, anti-sumptuary laws (that is, outlawing or mandating legal limits to the supply of luxuries), employing public shame against people who engage in "antisocial" consumption, limiting the supply of consumer goods so that people can't spend their full income (leading to them saving in those government-run banks), taxes on specific goods to reduce consumption of them, price controls to introduce market distortions that favour investment, requisitioning resources (which runs a gamut from agents of the government robbing their own citizens at bayonet point to the government buying resources at fixed - often below-market prices - on the basis of democratically agreed laws.

You may note that modern democracies do most of those or have done them within living memory. The forced accumulation of resources from the populace to the state/community is a normal and very likely necessary part of civilization (taxation is as old as urbanization, it seems doubtful that humans could maintain cities without it). What is different about (1) is not the suppression of consumption to allow the state/community to accumulate reserves, it is how the reserves are then expended building factories and infrastructure.

reactionary Ming Restorationists who are actually a thing right now

Seriously? Wow...

3 is not really viable without occupying Victoria in a way we lack the manpower or international support to do atm. The reparations were a one-time opportunity that came about as a result of internal Victorian strife and the obliteration of their military; I do not expect it to reappear before we destroy the Victorian state.

I agree. But that we have succeeded in extorting reparations from Victoria and will invest those into rebuilding will mean that we have done some of (3).

fasquardon
 
And it is enormously polluting, injurious to the health of wild fish (because of all the disease organisms and parasites that swim through the gaps in the nets) and resource intensive. Fish farming like that probably isn't viable in the post-collapse world.
There are other methods of fish farming that might be more viable, for example oyster farming, fish farming in the cooling water of sufficiently low-temperature processes. That sort of thing.
I'm not sure I agree.
The question is not if its resource intensive; industrialized farming is resource intensive, but the yields are worth it.
The question is whether its cost-effective. Im not in that field, so I cant make any pronouncements one way or the other.

But in a world of billions of people, where at least one member of the Russian Axis is a nation of over a billion people who expect improved living standards, where subsaharan Africa and its over a billion people is getting its shit together, I dont think the hunter-gatherer modus operandi of modern fishing fleets is tenable.

So I suspect you are going to see more, not less, of these sorts of farms.
Possibly modified due to lessons learned(deepwater farms vs shallow water farms), but in the absence of international governance structures (thanks Alexander!) I am not particularly confident of the corporate responsibility of businesses and proprietors.

Given that the Commonwealth's agriculture supported a population of tens of millions through the collapse and has recently surged in productivity due to re-mechanization, I am not sure that further improvements in yield are possible at this point. Though for sure there will be plenty of improvements we can make, these may be more "get the same amount of food for less energy input" or "get the same amount of food with less negative environmental impact" type improvements.
Pretty sure they are. USDA data indicates that 2017 farm output is 2.9 times what it was in 1948.
Source:

USDA ERS - Summary of Recent Findings

This page presents a summary of the major findings of the ERS agricultural productivity accounts. This data set provides estimates of productivity growth in the U.S. farm sector for 1948–2021, and estimates of the growth/relative levels of productivity across States for 1960–2004.

But just improving storage will measurable improve effective yields.
Estimated post-harvest losses in Africa have been up to 40% of the harvest by some estimates.
Not counting pre-harvest losses in the field, and so on. I would not be surprised to find some of our agricultural losses in that same order.

I agree. But that we have succeeded in extorting reparations from Victoria and will invest those into rebuilding will mean that we have done some of (3).
fasquardon
Fair enough.
 
Last edited:
Given that the Commonwealth's agriculture supported a population of tens of millions through the collapse and has recently surged in productivity due to re-mechanization, I am not sure that further improvements in yield are possible at this point. Though for sure there will be plenty of improvements we can make, these may be more "get the same amount of food for less energy input" or "get the same amount of food with less negative environmental impact" type improvements.
Given that what improvements in yield you have seen are the result of Ron Burns essentially buying up whatever farming equipment Chicago produced and then borrowing logistics trucks to bring it out to what word-of-mouth suggested were your poorest areas, I can assure you that further improvements are eminently possible.
 
Negaverse-related question here:

At this point in time, would the Vic players be dealing with the Pelee Island siege or with Blackwell's civil war?
 
Negaverse-related question here:

At this point in time, would the Vic players be dealing with the Pelee Island siege or with Blackwell's civil war?
Insofar as I'd run it, they'd have no bearing on the Pelee Island siege at all. What happens there is between Burns and the division commander. They'd just get a news writeup.

So, the civil war.
 
I too would like to know more about this.
Sounds hilarious.
It's not an organized movement right now, it's just the alt-right equivalent on the swirling cesspit of Weibo and Wechat. If you've ever read, say, a particularly insane Duke of Qin post, just remember that his views are only unpopular in Chinese internet circles by percentage, not by absolute number.

The ideology shakes out in practice to be more "pro-Han imperial dynasty", of which the Ming were the most recent, borne out of a strain of thought that the entire concept of a Republican China whether it be CPC or KMT-ruled are "race traitors" to Han Chinese for the implicit acceptance of the post-Qing multiethnic Chinese identity.

It's far less amusing when you realize their primary bone of contention with the current Chinese government is that it is too nice to ethnic minorities, and you realize that in the TNO analogy, they aren't Rurik II, they're fucking Taboritsky.
 
Last edited:
I've been doing a little googling for possible reasons why California failed to make a move during the Rainbow Uprising next door in 2062, why the Cascadian authorities didnt expect Californian support, and why that failure to move didn't result in major political violence in the NCR as Japanese reprisal killings went on and the govt did nothing, and I think I have a bunch of plausible reasons:
en.wikipedia.org

ARkStorm - Wikipedia

An ARkStorm (for atmospheric river 1,000 storm) is a hypothetical but scientifically realistic "megastorm" scenario developed and published by the Multi Hazards Demonstration Project (MHDP) of the United States Geological Survey, based on historical occurrences. It describes an extreme storm that could devastate much of California, causing up to $725 billion in losses (mostly due to flooding), and affect a quarter of California's homes. The event would be similar to exceptionally intense California storms that occurred between December 1861 and January 1862, which dumped nearly 10 feet of rain in parts of California, over a period of 43 days
The USGS sediment research in the San Francisco Bay Area, Santa Barbara basin, Sacramento Valley, and Klamath Mountain region have indicated that "megastorms" similar to the ARkStorm scenario have occurred in the following years A.D.: 212, 440, 603, 1029, c. 1300, 1418, 1605, 1750, 1810, and December 1861–January 1862 (the latest occurrence). Based on the intervals of known occurrences, ranging from 51 to 426 years, scientists have concluded that these events have a mean return period of around 150–200 years.[1]
By those metrics, 21st century California is about due for a megastorm between 2012 and 2062.
Dealing with the economic and humanitarian aftermath of a natural disaster removes any capability to sustain the disruption of a rebellion.

Alternatively, the Big One finally hit SoCal.
the-big-one.scpr.org

Listen | The Big One: Your Survival Guide

When The Big One hits it’ll take under two minutes for more than 10 million Southern Californians to lose internet, power, and a sense of security. Our podcast tells you what you need to know to survive.
If you really want to fuck with the NCR, the ARKStorm hit in '62 a decade or so after California was recovering from the Big One
Which helps explain their relative passivity.

Bonus US seismic hazard map:
 
I wanna say that the yellow spot in Ohio is Xenia.. which is if not the most tornado hit town in the world is definitely in the running. A mile wide F5 basically erased the town back in the 70s, with a near miss by an EF5 in the past decade or so

Edit, also kinda surprised that central TX is in the low risk category considering the nasty flooding from hurricanes to hit there recently
 
Last edited:
I wanna say that the yellow spot in Ohio is Xenia.. which is if not the most tornado hit town in the world is definitely in the running. A mile wide F5 basically erased the town back in the 70s, with a near miss by an EF5 in the past decade or so

Edit, also kinda surprised that central TX is in the low risk category considering the nasty flooding from hurricanes to hit there recently
(the map is of specifically seismic hazard)
 
The question is whether its cost-effective. Im not in that field, so I cant make any pronouncements one way or the other.

Good point.

Certainly I'd LIKE the world of 2070 to be one where in most places it was not cost-effective to strip-mine the sea for fish that humans could just eat directly and instead mince them, mix them with potent poisons to stop the fats from going rancid, feed the toxic fish pellets to parasite-ridden swarms of salmon contained in tiny netted off areas of sea, bomb those salmon with antibiotics and nerve toxins to try to keep diseases and lice under control and then feed the result to humans while the lice and antibiotic resistant bacteria spilling out of the nets kill off the wild salmon before they can breed.

It is crazy and actually reduces the total food supply, but there is always a little crazy in what humans do, so maybe this particular method of fish farming is one of those in the world of the 2070s.

Pretty sure they are. USDA data indicates that 2017 farm output is 2.9 times what it was in 1948.

Hmmmmm. Maybe. Given the large shifts that need to be done in agriculture to recover from the self-destructive practices of the past, and all the disruption to trade and communication this future has seen, I doubt that there are many high-yield techniques available.

But maybe cultured vat foods and genetic engineering and growing food in climate controlled environments could do it.

fasquardon
 
Good point.

Certainly I'd LIKE the world of 2070 to be one where in most places it was not cost-effective to strip-mine the sea for fish that humans could just eat directly and instead mince them, mix them with potent poisons to stop the fats from going rancid, feed the toxic fish pellets to parasite-ridden swarms of salmon contained in tiny netted off areas of sea, bomb those salmon with antibiotics and nerve toxins to try to keep diseases and lice under control and then feed the result to humans while the lice and antibiotic resistant bacteria spilling out of the nets kill off the wild salmon before they can breed.

It is crazy and actually reduces the total food supply, but there is always a little crazy in what humans do, so maybe this particular method of fish farming is one of those in the world of the 2070s.
Caveat: Again, I'm not an expert in this field. But what I've read suggests that a lot of the issues you are mentioning are being addressed.

Moving the fish farms out of the near littorals and into deepwater combined with mapping ocean currents would prevent concentrations of fish waste inundating the ocean floor and avoid wild fish. There's synthetic fishmeal in development (yes, even for carnivorous fish) to obsolete the need for using trashfish as a feedstock component.

And there's laser-armed drones in development for dealing with fish lice infestations.

Hmmmmm. Maybe. Given the large shifts that need to be done in agriculture to recover from the self-destructive practices of the past, and all the disruption to trade and communication this future has seen, I doubt that there are many high-yield techniques available.
But maybe cultured vat foods and genetic engineering and growing food in climate controlled environments could do it.
fasquardon
Given as the human population has not crashed back to the 1.6 billion it was circa 1900?
I think its safe to assume that those high yield techniques still exist, and still work.

Genetic engineering is definitely in play, but climate controlled environments and cultured vat foods are not.
If they were a thing, New York would be food-independent, not a food importer, if all they had to do was culture food in vats .
And frankly, we'd be fucked, since agricultural farmland is one of the things we bring to the international market.
 
Certainly I'd LIKE the world of 2070 to be one where in most places it was not cost-effective to strip-mine the sea for fish that humans could just eat directly and instead mince them, mix them with potent poisons to stop the fats from going rancid, feed the toxic fish pellets to parasite-ridden swarms of salmon contained in tiny netted off areas of sea, bomb those salmon with antibiotics and nerve toxins to try to keep diseases and lice under control and then feed the result to humans while the lice and antibiotic resistant bacteria spilling out of the nets kill off the wild salmon before they can breed.
I mean, the alternative options are either plummeting fish output due to over fishing or managing to actually enforce lack of fishing by people in the middle of an incredible lack of global prosperity and stability. Roundabout and possibly counter-productive as that style of fish farms may be, but at least fish aren't intelligent actors trying to do an end-run around the system - and that does wonders for relative cost-effectiveness.
 
I mean, the alternative options are either plummeting fish output due to over fishing or managing to actually enforce lack of fishing by people in the middle of an incredible lack of global prosperity and stability. Roundabout and possibly counter-productive as that style of fish farms may be, but at least fish aren't intelligent actors trying to do an end-run around the system - and that does wonders for relative cost-effectiveness.

One of the alternatives is to stop eating farmed fish and just eat the stuff we currently use as fish food... Way more calories since a whole bunch of energy isn't wasted keeping salmon alive and growing while in salmon-hell.

Given as the human population has not crashed back to the 1.6 billion it was circa 1900?
I think its safe to assume that those high yield techniques still exist, and still work.

I'm not talking about techniques that can sustainably produce outputs per hectare equal to those of current practices - as I've already said before, we have those techniques.

I am talking about pushing yields higher than they are in current best-practice open air farming. Which could be as simple as "everything is grown in a climate-controlled tunnel now" or as complex as "most food is made with engineered organisms grown and textured in giant food factories now". Personally, I am dubious that there'd be much of that in the post-collapse world, and what there was would be extremely capital-intensive stuff that was only economical in the world's megacities.

More likely, in this world open air agriculture in parts of the world that today are fertile wouldn't have much higher potential yields, but in areas of the world that are today more marginal, potential yields would have risen significantly.

So the TL;DR is that I expect that the techniques for growing food in Ohio wouldn't be much better than they are today - better agricultural robots (if those are something that were pursued after the world has been flooded by lots of desperate refugees who can be used as cheap agricultural labour for two generations) and some low-key genetic engineering likely means it is better, but I expect those improvements will be overshadowed by improvements in the abilities of cities to meet their own demand for fresh non-staples and improvements in tropical agricultural output.

I don't expect potential yields to have fallen anywhere really. The places where output is below the potential maximum will be the places which lack infrastructure or political stability IMO. And any mass starvation in this world will probably have been due to political failure, not due to a lack of ability to keep farm outputs at the levels of today (which are sufficient to feed the populations we're likely to get in the 21st Century if waste is reduced).

fasquardon
 
One of the alternatives is to stop eating farmed fish and just eat the stuff we currently use as fish food... Way more calories since a whole bunch of energy isn't wasted keeping salmon alive and growing while in salmon-hell.
That is not really viable, Im afraid.
Poor people already eat those fish; it's in the First World and among the affluent that people can afford to be picky. And even those are getting depleted. One example:
Bangladesh is one of the most densely-populated countries on Earth, with its population crammed into a delta of rivers that empty into the Bay of Bengal. At least 1.5m people in the country are dependent on fishing for their livelihoods and fish remains the most important source of animal protein for the population overall.

But a three-year report commissioned by the government shows the largest and most valuable species, like tiger prawns and Indian salmon, are almost completely gone.
www.bbc.com

Bangladesh overfishing: Almost all species pushed to brink

Overfishing by industrial trawlers in Bangladesh has pushed almost every species to the brink.

There's entire other regions of ocean that are in this state or worse due to industrial fishing.
Its asserted that industrial fishing of Somali waters in part drove fishermen to piracy due to declining catches, for example. And then there's what North Sea fishermen did to their cod stocks.

Bangladesh, Somalia, West Africa et al are in the Third World, where rates of animal protein consumption are way lower than anything in the First World, and where population growth is most concentrated. 70% of the world still lives on less than 10 dollars a day. If/when their standard of living improves and they start demanding more protein in their diets and their children's diets, thats gonna come from somewhere.

For just one example, see how much pork China imports from the US.

Its farm now, or stripmine the oceans fish stocks first, then farm.
And we're getting pretty deep into the stripmine fish stocks process at this point, while almost 70% of the world's population is still at Third World standards of living.

I'm not talking about techniques that can sustainably produce outputs per hectare equal to those of current practices - as I've already said before, we have those techniques.

I am talking about pushing yields higher than they are in current best-practice open air farming. Which could be as simple as "everything is grown in a climate-controlled tunnel now" or as complex as "most food is made with engineered organisms grown and textured in giant food factories now". Personally, I am dubious that there'd be much of that in the post-collapse world, and what there was would be extremely capital-intensive stuff that was only economical in the world's megacities.

More likely, in this world open air agriculture in parts of the world that today are fertile wouldn't have much higher potential yields, but in areas of the world that are today more marginal, potential yields would have risen significantly.

So the TL;DR is that I expect that the techniques for growing food in Ohio wouldn't be much better than they are today - better agricultural robots (if those are something that were pursued after the world has been flooded by lots of desperate refugees who can be used as cheap agricultural labour for two generations) and some low-key genetic engineering likely means it is better, but I expect those improvements will be overshadowed by improvements in the abilities of cities to meet their own demand for fresh non-staples and improvements in tropical agricultural output.

I don't expect potential yields to have fallen anywhere really. The places where output is below the potential maximum will be the places which lack infrastructure or political stability IMO. And any mass starvation in this world will probably have been due to political failure, not due to a lack of ability to keep farm outputs at the levels of today (which are sufficient to feed the populations we're likely to get in the 21st Century if waste is reduced).

fasquardon
I will point out that open air farming yields in the US have not actually capped out today, and were still inching upwards at a fairly steady 1-2% each year according to USDA figures up till 2017, and we havent even gone deep into robotics or similar stuff. For example, RL potato yields are at 17-25 tons an acre depending on the season.

Theres still a ways to go before we max that out.

Then there's the Dutch, who apparently do intensive production on limited area and resources s very well.
www.nationalgeographic.com

How the Netherlands Feeds the World

The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant by showing what the future of farming could look like.

But their approach is rather beyond us at the moment, because it requires a fair bit of pre-existing infrastructure investment.
Though its something to strive towards.
 
Last edited:
Poor people already eat those fish

Poor people are not eating fish that are pelleted and turned into fish food.

Because if they were it would be human food, not fish food.

Its farm now, or stripmine the oceans fish stocks first, then farm.

No, it isn't, because the sort of fish farming you are talking about involves the stripmining of the ocean. The salmon pens you showed are not sustainable and cannot be made sustainable. There are other kinds of fish farming, which can be different, but not the sort that you are talking about. The best thing that can be done with current salmon farming is to do it in inland pools so the toxic waste doesn't kill off the coastal life.

Then there's the Dutch, who apparently do intensive production on limited area and resources s very well.

You are really missing my point by a mile here...

Yes, you can swaddle the fields in polytunnels to control the climate some. You can control the climate even better by having heated CO2 enriched glass greenhouses. And then you need to pay off your infrastructure costs, which isn't possible if prices for agricultural produce are too low.

And this isn't only the costs needed to buy the plastic sheeting, glass panes and so on, glasshouses and polytunnels have high maintenance costs.

My issue here isn't that there are techniques to achieve radically higher yields, my issue is that if the Lind-devised misery the world has been through has been fertile for making those techniques cheap enough/effective enough to be applicable to the Commonwealth.

fasquardon
 
just found this on discord
UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
Yeah
Oh god
Something just dawned on me
Lind really raised a fuss on honoring the death of Iwo Jima
And then portrayed Japanese Resurgence into an expansionist Empire as a good thing
Didn't he
Lind truly is the gift that keeps on giving isn't he :facepalm: i'll put the rest of it in the boks below
UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
Can I at this point once again voice my discontent at Lind's idiotic inclusion of fucking German Monarchy Restoration of all things?

deep indigo23.11.2020
Also
How the fuck is japan a Neo fascist empire again
Like wut:jackiechan:

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
Well, the same and worst people who were involved with the old fascist regime largely escaped justice for their crimes and were granted leadership roles in the new Japan, which is a part of why Japan to this day refuses to acknowledge that they did anything at all wrong during the Second World War. If we are entirely willing to accept everything that happens in this universe, I think Japan backsliding with that setup is by no means the least plausible bit of the bunch.(redigeret)

UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
Yeah
Oh god
Something just dawned on me
Lind really raised a fuss on honoring the death of Iwo Jima
And then portrayed Japanese Resurgence into an expansionist Empire as a good thing
Didn't he

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
Mhm.
Lind just makes...so much sense.

UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
This is just the gift that gives on giving in terms of these sorts of moments

Well, the same and worst people who were involved with the old fascist regime largely escaped justice for their crimes and were granted leadership roles in the new Japan, which is a part of why Japan to this day refuses to acknowledge that they did anything at all wrong during the Second World War. If we are entirely willing to accept everything that happens in this universe, I think Japan backsliding with that setup is by no means the least plausible bit of the bunch.(redigeret)

deep indigo svarede på PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
What's implausible to me is that the Neo fascist japan is also expansionist and somehow get away with it
Like fucking wot
And allied with Russia
Cursed asf

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
You're right. The USN would never allow such reckless expansionism in their-
wait
:drevil:

deep indigo23.11.2020
...

Random Member23.11.2020
oh fuck it's zombie kishi

deep indigo23.11.2020
I forget japan has one of the most powerful navy in the pacific
And China is not doing so well...

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
The JMSDF is one of the boldest motherfuckers out there, having the nerve to call those aircraft carriers destroyers.
And themselves a self-defense force.

deep indigo23.11.2020
I mean technically is a helicopter carrier

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
For now.
Izumo's being converted to carry fixed-wing aircraft.(redigeret)

deep indigo23.11.2020
Is just pure coincidence that the heli carriers can be you know
Carried aircraft

UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
Oh god its literally the 'a smoothie' meme

Oh god its literally the 'a smoothie' meme

PoptartProdigy svarede på UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
?

UniquelyEqual23.11.2020
Uh
Give me like
A minute

Random Member23.11.2020

UniquelyEqual23.11.2020

MagnificentLilyWitch23.11.2020
:rofl:

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
Hah!

Candlejack23.11.2020
@PoptartProdigy thats actually what caused japan to go fascist in the first place. The sons of the last samurai joined the military and subverted it from within.

Clockworkchaos23.11.2020
@PoptartProdigy I choose to believe that on the inside, Alex thought of Kraft like a favorite puppy. One that made a lot of messes on the carpet, and eventually had to be put down because he got too old, but a puppy. It's why he gives Victoria so much leeway, and doesn't cut them loose. Fond memories.
(He hated Rumford tho)

Shadowsaint00723.11.2020
I thought Kraft died of old age

Clockworkchaos23.11.2020
Russia poison,Victoria's Retromedicine couldn't tell

Candlejack23.11.2020
He dies of 'old age' yes.

Do not question dear leader.

Clockworkchaos23.11.2020
It was in response to him being fooled by the 'look at my trains' act of the Chicago mayor way back, the Russian handlers were not fooled, and determined he was no longer a useful asset.

PoptartProdigy23.11.2020
Wisconsin Governor.
But otherwise yes.

Shadowsaint00723.11.2020
what was the bit with the Wisconsin governor?
and really, Alex seems to be stuck in the mindset of "if it's not useful, smash it"
Machiavelli said one should be respected rather than feared; the latter means people are going to gang up on you when you're no longer capable of carrying out your threats

Clockworkchaos23.11.2020
So in the original novel, after Wisconsin killed the Nazi''s the governer who succeeded them 'liked trains' with little else said
In Victoria falls this ridiculous statement has been expanded so that the governor (a more old-school politician) came up with a plan where they would present themselves to Victoria as this harmless, peaceful community that liked trains (something Kraft liked) and was vaguely but unsepcifically retroculture.
In novel Kraft dies soon after, so it was an assasination in this.
Or at least that is the point where the assasination was decided on.
This plays into Sarah and Sarah's backstories, as they were part of the Nazi-burning coalition, but too radicle to appear in the deception, so they posed as waitresses at the diner where Kraft met the governor

Shadowsaint00723.11.2020
and it turned out the Wisconsin Governor was up to something?
as in "a somewhat stable state that may oppose Russia"

Clockworkchaos23.11.2020
Yes, Kraft missed it, his handlers didn't, hence they decided his usefullness was at an end.

Shadowsaint00723.11.2020
and Russia did anything about Wisconsin, or did it so happen that Russia's problems started right then?

Clockworkchaos23.11.2020
No, this was like, 20 years ago. Wisconsin got devistated
2040 is about when the meeting happened. 2074 was the quest start, so 34 years ago

genolution23.11.2020
Regarding the modern jmsdf, they are a pretty damn capable force but, even with the izumo class conversion their power projection does firmly place them as still a self defense force
Like tbh even though the jmsdf is larger than the rokn, id argue the rokn is far closer to blue water navy status
24. november 2020

Kiarael24.11.2020
rip
to the Pinnacle Philosopher
"He liked trains too much"

Twiggierjet24.11.2020
?
What happened?

EternalStruggle24.11.2020
Bill Kraft died.
Like 20 years ago.
But he died.

"He liked trains too much"

Clockworkchaos svarede på Kiarael24.11.2020
Kraft was a a Bi. His first love was for nostalgic hierarchical power structures, and his second love was trains.
 
I have finally corrected my failure to post the turn rules in the Rules Screen. Largely, what we have is lifted from the Turn One post, but updated for developments since. Still, have a look when you can.
 
Posted to the Rules Screen.



Nation quests have a problem with the notion of the enlightened dictator.

They tend to very much run with the idea that a sufficiently benevolent and competent dictator can, with adequate control over state institutions, fix everything and anything about a nation. Democratic institutions, in nation quests, often get treated as an obstacle to be overcome so that the PC can resume the vital work of fixing the nation; the populace and their input, in short, are treated as nothing but obstructions, a set of boxes you need to check to get back to the real work. It's an easy trap to fall into, and I've fallen into it myself, many times.

I am attempting to push back against it with Victoria Falls.

Mechanically speaking, the first four turns of the quest were played with the office of the President enjoying vast emergency powers, during a period where the Commonwealth of Free Cities was acknowledged as being under imminent and existential threat from Victoria. This entailed vast constitutional authority to direct the powers and institutions of the state to the war effort. However, narratively, the Presidency is subordinate to the Commonwealth's Congress, and serves at their pleasure.

Starting Turn Five, with the Erie War ending in a massive victory and the short-term threat from Victoria thoroughly ended, emergency powers will be expiring.

What this will mean is that the President's role will shift somewhat, away from being the chief director of the government to being the executor of the Congress's will. The PC will still, ultimately, be the one directing the resources of government to achieve various aims, and they will be an active agent in the attainment of their goals, but to a much greater extent, they will be carrying out directives from the Congress. Your actions will be bound by what the law dictates. By the same token, the law can offer powerful tools to help you achieve your ends. Fundamentally, though, the President is not the one who makes laws. Congress is.

The way this will mechanically shake out is that the Congress will, throughout play, be debating and passing laws. The players will be the ones responsible for executing those laws. You do not have to like them. The PC must execute laws passed by Congress. Failure to do so can lead to replacement by a new PC, who will lock in actions to execute that course of action against the players' wishes. Laws can also restrict available courses of action, or expedite certain ones, either raising or lowering DCs. It can also simply lock out certain courses of action, unless you do them clandestinely, and feel quite secure in your ability to evade Congressional oversight committees -- itself a roll against a DC that varies based on the strength of Congress's control over your office. This is fairly high, at the start of things.

The players can interact with this process. The President is not a passive actor in government. You can dedicate actions -- usually via the Department of Domestic Affairs -- to having allies in Congress introduce legislation you prefer or attempting to sway votes on legislation in progress. However, nothing is guaranteed, and sometimes there will be bills you simply cannot fight or alter. Worse -- possibly -- fighting against a bill that Congress really wants could have Congress take direct notice, and when the President fights against the body that can select -- or remove -- that President, it could mean the end of their career.

Fundamentally, the Commonwealth's Presidency is shaped by the national trauma of this quest's America, where the Collapse began with Donald Trump bumbling around with tools he could not begin to understand, much less control. The CFC's President cannot battle with or ignore Congress, secure in their position as being accountable to the electorate, and then only every four years. Instead, they serve at the pleasure of Congress, and may be removed if they act against Congress's wishes.

Emergency powers change this by allowing the President to unilaterally act to deal with the crisis of the day. However, it is not up to the President to call a state of emergency. The President may request a state of emergency, but the decision lies in Congress's hands. Congress may declare a state of emergency at any time, but there are strict limits. To declare a state of emergency, Congress must specify the exact nature of the emergency, what specific factors they believe are presenting an imminent and massive threat to the Commonwealth or its people, and what constitutes a resolution of those factors. The state of emergency, legally speaking, expires once all of those factors are resolved. The state of emergency from Turns One to Four was characterized as an existential threat to the CFC's states structures and its people in the form of imminent military invasion by the Victorian Army. The success condition was characterized as an end to Victoria's ability to militarily threaten the CFC. While this was originally envisioned as establishing a stable defensive strategy Victoria could not overcome, the complete annihilation of the Victoria Army as an institution was also found to qualify.

In the event of a conflict regarding whether or not a state of emergency has expired, the judiciary will mediate the dispute.

EDIT: This is an added layer of mechanics, not an overhaul of what is already there. Play will continue as before, just with this mechanics laid on top.
 
Last edited:
I really get wanting to move away from the enlightened dictator... But then, why make us play the executive? It'd be much easier to have players be congress, which is already not that far off considering we did vote in the parties to make it up.
 
??? Omake: The Network Restored
The Network Restored
(omake)​

Garbriel Novac read the words on the grave. The following words were carved into the tombstone. They had been done with care, and showed the reverence for the man. He had ensured that they honored the man so many years ago.

RIP
William Rodgers 1991-2036
Librarian​

That was the writing on the Stone tombstone of Gabriel's oldest friend. Lover, once upon a time. Before the CMC found him. Before they burned down his house, with all his books, and him inside it. He sighed. Luckily the Network still endured. Rodgers was one of the founders of the Network. Novac was another. They had worked together to make sure that what had happened to the Library of Alexandria, the knowledge at Pompeii, the Burning of the Books by the Qin Dynasty, the destruction of priceless artifacts by religious extremists all throughout history. Gabriel was more of a computer specialist, back when such things were common. Now he knew the Dewey Decimal system, and after that became 'illegal' and 'immoral', became a man who did inventory for warehouses.

He nodded to his nephew. They took out shovels, and began to dig the grave. If nothing else, the Victorians believed in the sanctity of graves to some extent. At least here in the western parts of Pennsylvania. He remembered the broadcast, the killing of professors, intellectuals, and scientists. Only the 'classics' were allowed to be taught, and only in limited, pre-approved capacities.

Rodgers had been a librarian. A man who was in love with the written word. Too many loyal Victorians, or too many scared people living under the fear of the Victorians, knew who and what he was, and turned him in. That had gotten him killed. Not just for being a homosexual, which was less well known, and was hidden as much as possible, but that he was a librarian. That last word was dangerous. It meant that the man had died in the service of knowledge. In the eyes of the Victorians, he was a Cultural Marxist and intellectual, and was had to be killed for helping people learn.

Beneath his resting place, beneath his coffin, was the Network. Every single treasure they could find to rebuild the world in the decades before and after the Collapse. Gabriel was thankful that he knew how to forge paperwork better than William did. Looking like someone who did inventory before the Collapse was infinitely less dangerous than a database. . Becoming a full time forger wasn't what he wanted his life to be, but it was what it had become. It had kept him alive all these years

Both of them enjoyed reading novels, and had entertained the idea of Isaac Asimov's Foundation. A world full of nothing but librarians, scientists, mathematicians, and other educated people, working to preserve all that would be destroyed when civilization fell.

When they saw what was happening, William had convinced him to use his money to build it. And they had, finishing months before the Collapse really went into full swing. Underneath the Rodger's family plot a converted bomb shelter. Inside said converted bomb shelter was the Rice Avenue Community Public Library. Using money to renovate a bomb shelter had seemed like a odd Prepper hobby before the Collapse. Something that militias even encouraged at times, as long as you were the right sort. Making it suitable for long term storage of several works seemed like it was more important than a place to hold canned preserves and rations for fruit. Every book that they could get their hands on, that went against Retroculture, Victorian stated propaganda, religious texts, anything that could be conceived as part of the modernity or heretical, was put in there. The shelves and storage containers were full of books, literature, artwork, film slides, technical manuals, blueprints, college textbooks, magazines, how to books, instruction manuals, film reels, DVDs, were all boxed up. Unless a bomb directly impacted the shelter, it would be untouched. it was all there, it was all safe. Preserved, and waiting for a time when there was a civilization that could use them.

They had recruited others. Other people who were seeing the writing on the wall. Librarians, teachers, professors, journalists, scientists. All of them had something they wanted to preserve. All of them contributed with what they could to ensure that it wasn't destroyed. Whether it was with materials, know how, bureaucracy, or some other means to help keep their knowledge secret. And so many of them had died for it. Their family members, too. The Inquisitors found out about a few of them, and some didn't help up to interrogation, and named names. William never felt anger at them. Because that was who he was. He was a gentleman, a gentle-man, and he didn't have in him to hold anger towards those who were truly desperate.

Victoria had just seemed impossibly strong, and as if they were here to stay. Over time, all of them had been found, except for the original two founders, William and Gabriel. But, in the end, they had found William. And he had died saying nothing. Victoria had taken another man of knowledge to the fire, because he was both a homosexual, and a librarian, and their society had little want or need for either. To Gabriel, all his hopes and dreams died that day. He still preserved it all, if only to honor William. If only to keep some part of him alive.

But now, with Victoria's civil war after their loss to the Commonwealth, he knew he it was time. Time to transport it somewhere that it would do the most good. Before it was lost to time, before he either became senile, or dropped dead, and the location of the Network's treasure trove was utterly forgotten.

Gabriel had initially wanted to transport it to New York City. But that was too far, and would go through too many checkpoints, too many Victorian militia, too many Inquisitors. The Commonwealth was the answer. If he could give this to them, to their library system, it would ensure that William's work wasn't all for naught. That his life had meaning. That his death had meaning. That the cause he held so close to his heart, that knowledge was important, would be preserved. After their utter smashing of the Victorian military, Chicago was hosting a diplomatic conference. He had to get these items there. Once they were in President Johnson's hands, he could die knowing that he was absolved. That it all meant something.

The road to Lake Erie was a long one. The roads were destroyed, and the carts used to transport everything required the resources of the last of the Network, and his family's cooperation. This was all they had. All of them transported items discreetly to Chicago. Smuggling them in personal luggage, or in their clothing. Small items, here and there. The first few times they had tried to smuggle things east, to New York City, it had resulted in so many deaths, and so much destruction of so many priceless works. This was why they headed west, to Chicago. With the relative peace, and free trade, they were able to make it Lake Erie, and pay with their entire savings for their passage.

Chicago was so different from Girard, Pennsylvania. They were alive, they were mostly happy, and they seemed full. It shamed him, seeing how they lived, compared to how he had. Compared to what he did to survive. They didn't look at each other with suspicion at all times. He had written a letter, ahead of his travels, urgently requesting a member of Johnson's administration to meet with him. To accept the gifts he wanted to offer them. He wanted them to see it, and accept it, to tell him that his life had meaning. That what he did was worth the sacrifice.

He was just so hungry. Their harvest was bad that year. They couldn't trade what they had, because it was all illegal works, and it needed to be preserved. That's why he had turned William in. If he hadn't, they both would have starved, and their work would have been forgotten. Better that their organization, the Network, survived, and have some chance of success. At least, that's what he said at the time. Now he just felt like a miserable, shameful coward and he needed to atone. If only he had known then, that his services as a forger would provide him with the means to feed himself, and more than enough to feed others. If only....

He would offer his services, both as a keeper of all the works that his love had preserved, and his offers as a person who could make false documents.

'Please, god, let this be my atonement.' he thought. 'This has to mean something.'

Only the Commonwealth could answer such a question. He hoped they said yes, if only to honor William.
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top