Voting is open
So we put it off until long long into the future when Russia's influence has receded and we built ourselves up enough that we can pull it off?
At which point we'd have better ways of fucking with them. Like recreating the USA and daring them to do anything, because at that point, Cascadia and California would have broken loose and Victoria is only un unpleasant memory.
 
Does recreating the USA include Alaska? Because that sounds about a hundred times more dangerous then some currency manipulation since iirc Russia considers that a core territory at this point.
Recreating the USA does yes. However, by the time we reach the point where liberating/invading Alaska is a concern then we are highly likely to have hit the critical Legacy threshold were someone trying to truly reunite/recreate the USA has gained enough Legacy that they are recognised as being the true inheritor of the territory of the United States of America. Which includes Alaska and Hawaii.

That means that the 'how big a problem' equation drastically changes as it's not two nations fighting over territory, but one nation fighting off an invasion of their internationally recognised borders. Still means that we'd be fighting Russia, but it's the difference between potentially having problems with sanctions as the aggressor at the least. Or being the 'defender'.

Of course, reaching that threshold, which we'd reach before Alaska was a real concern, is going to take a lot of time. And Alaska afterwards even more. Hell, might be something that the successor quest deals with as I think the intention is that this is meant to be 'Create a nation-state in North America which becomes a productive and stable modern nation, whilst crushing Victoria'. Not 'Create a North American Nation-state, take revenge on Russia and crush all their puppets, vassals and allies'.
 
The North Korea option. Thats a terrible idea.
If it was a good idea, places like China and Poland would already be doing it.



Given the relative stability of our nations, the currency of all the nations we hate is much more secure than ours is.

The security measures that go into printing currency today require nationstate level resources for anything that will beat a security scan, with the richer nations being able to afford more secure measures for their currency. The United States for example, prints the dollar on cotton and linen, using proprietary inks, security threads, watermarks, and exclusive machinery.

Just the availability of 2070s-tier money printing machines and currency security measures makes this a fantasy.

And the fucking last thing we want is for them to retaliate in kind.
I'm already worried that currency manipulation is likely to be one of the ways for Russia to economically fuck with us. Giving them a casus belli to do so is the nationtate equivalent of screaming all gods are bastards in a thunderstorm while flying a metal kite on top of a hill.
So lets set it up as a deniable operation, and limit ourselves to the Victorians, I imagine their going to be behind the curve on this sort of thing.
 
So lets set it up as a deniable operation, and limit ourselves to the Victorians, I imagine their going to be behind the curve on this sort of thing.
But why go to effort then? Victoria's economy is entirely dependent on foreign (read: Russian) currency as-is, the pine tree dollar isn't much better off than our own money, so it'd be a waste of time and resources.
 
Non-Canon Omake: The Butcher of Nashville
Robert Bradshaw was a good boss.

The Butcher of Nashville was nothing like Alice Dormer had imagined him. She had pictured Bradshaw as a huge man with cruel eyes, but he was shorter than she was, and his handsome brown eyes smiled at her as she gave him a cup of coffee. He took a sip, then another, and finally placed the coffee on his desk.

"Thank you, Alice," he said. "Please brew a fresh pot. Mister Prescott will be here soon, and I'm sure that he'll appreciate some of your delicious coffee." Alice backed away, and he lifted the letter with a frown. Bradshaw was being careful, which meant the letter was important.

It also meant that Alice needed to be careful. She fought the urge to glance at the letter as she deposited the pot on the table of the conference room, keeping her eyes down as befit a proper Southern woman. Besides, Bradshaw covered the letter with his hand as she drew close. He smiled and nodded his thanks, and she withdrew to a corner of the room.

A good secretary was neither seen nor heard, and Alice prided herself on being one of the best. She fixed a demure, humble expression on her face and didn't so much as blink when the door slammed open and two men marched in. They ignored her entirely, heading straight for Bradshaw, and she glanced casually at them once their backs were turned.

Mister Prescott was dressed in his usual flannel outfit, but Travis Miller was wearing a camouflage uniform with a Bowie knife at his side. He trampled mud across the carpet, and Alice couldn't stop herself from flinching at the thought of how hard it would be to get the stains out. She must have made some sound, because Miller turned to look at her, his face hard and angry.

Bradshaw said, "Please forgive Alice, Colonel Miller. She's a good Southern woman, and she does like things to be clean and proper." He poured two cups of coffee, smiling warmly at his guests. "We men know that sometimes things need to be a little bit messy, but we can't expect the womenfolk to understand that."

Mister Prescott took his cup and his seat, and "Colonel" Miller followed his example. "We need to talk," Prescott said, his voice brisk and intent. "Victoria has always counted on you, Robert, and I'm sure that you'll come through for us now. This is a time to try men's souls, but with faith in the Lord, we shall prevail."

"Amen," Bradshaw replied. "Would you like me to send Alice out? She's a good Christian woman, but you know how they talk." For the first time, Prescott turned to look at her. Fortunately, Alice wasn't expected to meet his eyes. She kept her face down, obedient and humble, aware of her own shortcomings. On the inside, she was seething with disappointed anger. Bradshaw was no fool, but she had hoped that he would forget to send her out.

Prescott said, "No, let her stay. All of Memphis will know soon enough." He took a deep sit from the coffee, hesitated, and then spoke. "Victoria has been driven back. Detroit will not fall in this campaigning season, and we are gathering our forces for another offensive. The God-fearing people of Memphis must prepare themselves for a time of sacrifice and hardship."

Bradshaw sighed. "It will be a hard winter, Matthew, but we can increase Memphis's donation to the cause. This is a faithful city, and we will stand by the Lord's soldiers."

Alice didn't hear Prescott's reply. They had lost. If Victoria was admitting failure, the campaign must have been a disaster. A defeat too obvious for even the Victorians to hide.

She could have known earlier, but the reports only went one way. Her outside news came from the city newspaper and overheard snippets of conversation between the city leaders, and they had all expected Victoria to triumph. Victoria always won.

Until now. Heart pounding in her chest, she listened carefully as Prescott explained what he required. Food, guns, ammunition, and medicine, all that Memphis could spare. Bradshaw nodded solemnly.

"And we need you to make examples," Prescott told him. "The Colonel and his Nightriders will be going around the state, and we expect you to mobilize the Home Guard. The local area is pretty well pacified, but if anyone gets ideas, make an example of them. Kill the men, and send the women and children to us, so that we can raise them properly in God's service."

Acid rose in her throat, though Alice's face remained calm and serene. Bradshaw took another sip of coffee, as untroubled as if they had been discussing the weather. "Tennessee will stay true, Matthew," he said. "I know the people here, and they know me. The Godly will obey out of faith, but the faithless will obey out of fear."

"Good. Good!" Prescott leaned across the desk to clap Bradshaw on the shoulder. "I suppose that you'll need to bring in the aldermen and make this whole thing official. Do you want me here?"

Bradshaw said, "You and Miller both. I believe that they are devout men, but if there is a Judas among them, it won't hurt to remind our dear Board that Victoria's eyes are upon us." He turned to Alice. "Send out the invitations, please. Tell them that our friends from Victoria are waiting."

A very short time later, every one of Memphis's Aldermen were sitting around the chairs in the conference room. Old men, leading members of the First Families that ran so much of the state. Alice could see the nervous glances exchanged among them as the conference door clicked shut. Four uniformed police officers stood against the walls, still as statues.

Alice took her place in the corner with the typewriter, ready to take the minutes. Chicago would be extremely interested in this meeting. Now that they'd driven the Vics back, perhaps the Navy could be waiting along the Mississippi to seize the tribute shipment.

"Thank you for coming," Bradshaw said warmly. "I won't waste your time, gentlemen. The documents before you are a list of the supplies that Victoria needs from our fair city." Some of them were too disciplined to show their shock, but Alice could see other faces pale. They had already made their "donations" to Victoria this year, and now they were being called upon to give twice as much again.

Alderman Peter Carlyle raised his hand like a schoolboy. "This...this is a great deal, Mister Mayor," he said carefully. "I know we all wish to support Victoria, but the Christian farmers of Tennessee are not rich men. Perhaps...perhaps our dear friends in Victoria would accept more pharmaceuticals in place of the food."

That suggestion earned him glares from around the table, and Carlyle flinched back as Bradshaw shook his head reprovingly. Alice had been surprised that Carlyle was allowed on the Board until she realized that Bradshaw's wife was his sister. Even the power of Victorian ideology could not triumph over good old-fashioned Southern nepotism, and so their resident radical was allowed to make his contributions, for what they were worth.

"No," Bradshaw said, and nothing more. Half the men in this room sold pharmaceuticals up and down the river, and that trade was worth a few thousand hungry farmers. Carlyle closed his mouth and looked down at the table.

Bradshaw said, "Victoria has asked for our aid against the Cultural Marxists, and we must support them, just as we have in the past." He tilted his head, considering. "Victoria is a mighty nation, and God has blessed them with many victories. I believed that their triumph would never end."

He rose to his feet. "Gentlemen, I know what the papers have been telling you. I can tell you, privately, that they have not been honest. The Victorian Army has been destroyed, the Commonwealth has prevailed, and five days ago the Victorian government tried and failed to purge the Crusader branch of the Christian Marine Corps."

Prescott's eyes widened, but he had only begun to open his mouth when one of the officers grabbed him from behind, wrestling his arms behind his back and forcing him to his knees. The other three dragged Miller down screaming and cursing, ripping the Bowie knife from his belt and pinning him to the floor. "Under the circumstances," Bradshaw told the frozen members of the Board. "I think it is time for a change in our policy."

"God will punish you!," Prescott spat. "Victoria will punish..." A black bag snapped down over his head, and the officer threw him to the floor. He hit hard, and the huge policeman knelt on his back.

"Careful," Bradshaw said reprovingly. "Mister Prescott is a valuable man. I want him alive and well when we put him on the next boat to Chicago."

Miller was breathing heavily as the officers lifted him to his feet. "It won't work," he declared. "You think Chicago will accept you? The Butcher of Nashville? They may be goddamn Marxists and race traitors, but they aren't that kind of fool. That bitch Goldblum will kill you slow, like a pig."

Bradshaw took the Bowie knife from one of his officers, examined it thoughtfully, then drove it through Miller's throat. The Nightrider dropped to the carpet, twitching, and Bradshaw frowned as he bled out into the carpet. "That's a good point," he replied. "In this time of transition, it might be best if Memphis was led by a unifying figure. I nominate Alderman Peter Carlyle as our new Mayor."

In the silence that followed, every eye went to Carlyle. He sat there paralyzed like a deer in headlights, but finally managed to squeak out, "Me?"

"Yes, Peter. Contact those Revivalist friends of yours, the ones you think I don't know about, and tell them that Memphis has broken with Victoria. Tell them that I'm purging the Nightriders and ending the tributary system." That last statement drew a murmur of complaint, and Bradshaw wearily shook his head. "As patriotic Americans, we never wanted to serve as Victoria's enforcers. They threatened our homes and families, and now that their grip is weakening, we will be the first to rise in rebellion."

Peter Carlyle said, "That's right." He licked his lips nervously. "Um, we should raise the American flag, shouldn't we? To show everyone that we're all one country again?"

Heads nodded around the table. Bradshaw suddenly said, "Gentlemen! We've been thoughtless." He turned his head to look at Alice. "I'm so sorry, ma'am. Please take the rest of the day off. But as you go out, could you send in housekeeping? I'm afraid that this rug is completely ruined."
 
On the heights, the paths are paved with daggers.

I think the GM has plans for Memphis that might prevent this from being canonized.
Nevertheless, its goddamn hilarious.
Well done.

Thanks! A little while ago, we had a discussion about how Victorian collaborators might deal with their patron's defeat, and this is one possibility.

Post-Collapse American politics can be very Seanchan.

Even if it's not canon I do hope this Bradshaw gets made into a canon character, you wrote him very well.

Thank you! I started off by imagining a completely awful human being, then writing that man after he's settled down with a wife, a son, and a nice comfortable position as Victoria's local enforcer. He's still just as awful, but his time among the Southern gentry has civilized him.

Now he tips housekeeping after he gets blood all over the nice rug.
 
Now he tips housekeeping after he gets blood all over the nice rug.
Truly a Modern Southern Gentleman... :V

Yes I consider a possible homicidal man who is called "The Butcher of Nashville" to be a lesser evil then Victorians.

Even if he was a Puppet, he did it to save his own ass. Witch is likely the reaction of ALOT of people in the American South.

Now that Victoria is burning...he can show some ambition. The kind he must have had as a younger man.
 
Even if he was a Puppet, he did it to save his own ass. Witch is likely the reaction of ALOT of people in the American South.
I'll repeat what I said on the Discord on this topic a while back:

"Before the start of the quest, there was a descriptor for people and successor states who weren't some level of collaborators with Victoria: dead."
 
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Truly a Modern Southern Gentleman... :V

The South may be a failed warlord state, but that doesn't mean you can forget your manners.

Even if he was a Puppet, he did it to save his own ass. Witch is likely the reaction of ALOT of people in the American South.

Dissecting the exact motivations and beliefs of people in Victorian America is tricky, because there's so much pressure to talk and act in a certain way. A lot of people will tell us that they wanted to be loyal Americans, but they served Victoria out of pure self-preservation. Some of the most important and powerful collaborators will say this.

Some of them will even be telling the truth.

Now that Victoria is burning...he can show some ambition. The kind he must have had as a younger man.

Ambition is for younger men; Bradshaw has what he wants. Besides, everyone around Memphis hates Memphis, and they don't have Victoria backing them up anymore.

"Before the start of the quest, there was a descriptor for people and successor states who weren't some level of collaborators with Victoria: dead."

There are collaborators and then there are collaborators. Memphis is going to be very, very well-behaved so that Chicago doesn't feel a need to look into some of their past behavior.
 
The South may be a failed warlord state, but that doesn't mean you can forget your manners.
Ahh Glad to see they haven't forgotten their hospitality...

I have Family in the south, they are wonderful people.

Some of them will even be telling the truth.
Truth in this age is just a Lie told long enough...its the cynic in me.
Ambition is for younger men; Bradshaw has what he wants. Besides, everyone around Memphis hates Memphis, and they don't have Victoria backing them up anymore.
Ambation can take many forms...mostly in the form of not losing your gains in your life.

I'd count that as a valid Ambition in his twilight years.
 
Robert Bradshaw was a good boss.

The Butcher of Nashville was nothing like Alice Dormer had imagined him. She had pictured Bradshaw as a huge man with cruel eyes, but he was shorter than she was, and his handsome brown eyes smiled at her as she gave him a cup of coffee. He took a sip, then another, and finally placed the coffee on his desk.

"Thank you, Alice," he said. "Please brew a fresh pot. Mister Prescott will be here soon, and I'm sure that he'll appreciate some of your delicious coffee." Alice backed away, and he lifted the letter with a frown. Bradshaw was being careful, which meant the letter was important.

It also meant that Alice needed to be careful. She fought the urge to glance at the letter as she deposited the pot on the table of the conference room, keeping her eyes down as befit a proper Southern woman. Besides, Bradshaw covered the letter with his hand as she drew close. He smiled and nodded his thanks, and she withdrew to a corner of the room.

A good secretary was neither seen nor heard, and Alice prided herself on being one of the best. She fixed a demure, humble expression on her face and didn't so much as blink when the door slammed open and two men marched in. They ignored her entirely, heading straight for Bradshaw, and she glanced casually at them once their backs were turned.

Mister Prescott was dressed in his usual flannel outfit, but Travis Miller was wearing a camouflage uniform with a Bowie knife at his side. He trampled mud across the carpet, and Alice couldn't stop herself from flinching at the thought of how hard it would be to get the stains out. She must have made some sound, because Miller turned to look at her, his face hard and angry.

Bradshaw said, "Please forgive Alice, Colonel Miller. She's a good Southern woman, and she does like things to be clean and proper." He poured two cups of coffee, smiling warmly at his guests. "We men know that sometimes things need to be a little bit messy, but we can't expect the womenfolk to understand that."

Mister Prescott took his cup and his seat, and "Colonel" Miller followed his example. "We need to talk," Prescott said, his voice brisk and intent. "Victoria has always counted on you, Robert, and I'm sure that you'll come through for us now. This is a time to try men's souls, but with faith in the Lord, we shall prevail."

"Amen," Bradshaw replied. "Would you like me to send Alice out? She's a good Christian woman, but you know how they talk." For the first time, Prescott turned to look at her. Fortunately, Alice wasn't expected to meet his eyes. She kept her face down, obedient and humble, aware of her own shortcomings. On the inside, she was seething with disappointed anger. Bradshaw was no fool, but she had hoped that he would forget to send her out.

Prescott said, "No, let her stay. All of Memphis will know soon enough." He took a deep sit from the coffee, hesitated, and then spoke. "Victoria has been driven back. Detroit will not fall in this campaigning season, and we are gathering our forces for another offensive. The God-fearing people of Memphis must prepare themselves for a time of sacrifice and hardship."

Bradshaw sighed. "It will be a hard winter, Matthew, but we can increase Memphis's donation to the cause. This is a faithful city, and we will stand by the Lord's soldiers."

Alice didn't hear Prescott's reply. They had lost. If Victoria was admitting failure, the campaign must have been a disaster. A defeat too obvious for even the Victorians to hide.

She could have known earlier, but the reports only went one way. Her outside news came from the city newspaper and overheard snippets of conversation between the city leaders, and they had all expected Victoria to triumph. Victoria always won.

Until now. Heart pounding in her chest, she listened carefully as Prescott explained what he required. Food, guns, ammunition, and medicine, all that Memphis could spare. Bradshaw nodded solemnly.

"And we need you to make examples," Prescott told him. "The Colonel and his Nightriders will be going around the state, and we expect you to mobilize the Home Guard. The local area is pretty well pacified, but if anyone gets ideas, make an example of them. Kill the men, and send the women and children to us, so that we can raise them properly in God's service."

Acid rose in her throat, though Alice's face remained calm and serene. Bradshaw took another sip of coffee, as untroubled as if they had been discussing the weather. "Tennessee will stay true, Matthew," he said. "I know the people here, and they know me. The Godly will obey out of faith, but the faithless will obey out of fear."

"Good. Good!" Prescott leaned across the desk to clap Bradshaw on the shoulder. "I suppose that you'll need to bring in the aldermen and make this whole thing official. Do you want me here?"

Bradshaw said, "You and Miller both. I believe that they are devout men, but if there is a Judas among them, it won't hurt to remind our dear Board that Victoria's eyes are upon us." He turned to Alice. "Send out the invitations, please. Tell them that our friends from Victoria are waiting."

A very short time later, every one of Memphis's Aldermen were sitting around the chairs in the conference room. Old men, leading members of the First Families that ran so much of the state. Alice could see the nervous glances exchanged among them as the conference door clicked shut. Four uniformed police officers stood against the walls, still as statues.

Alice took her place in the corner with the typewriter, ready to take the minutes. Chicago would be extremely interested in this meeting. Now that they'd driven the Vics back, perhaps the Navy could be waiting along the Mississippi to seize the tribute shipment.

"Thank you for coming," Bradshaw said warmly. "I won't waste your time, gentlemen. The documents before you are a list of the supplies that Victoria needs from our fair city." Some of them were too disciplined to show their shock, but Alice could see other faces pale. They had already made their "donations" to Victoria this year, and now they were being called upon to give twice as much again.

Alderman Peter Carlyle raised his hand like a schoolboy. "This...this is a great deal, Mister Mayor," he said carefully. "I know we all wish to support Victoria, but the Christian farmers of Tennessee are not rich men. Perhaps...perhaps our dear friends in Victoria would accept more pharmaceuticals in place of the food."

That suggestion earned him glares from around the table, and Carlyle flinched back as Bradshaw shook his head reprovingly. Alice had been surprised that Carlyle was allowed on the Board until she realized that Bradshaw's wife was his sister. Even the power of Victorian ideology could not triumph over good old-fashioned Southern nepotism, and so their resident radical was allowed to make his contributions, for what they were worth.

"No," Bradshaw said, and nothing more. Half the men in this room sold pharmaceuticals up and down the river, and that trade was worth a few thousand hungry farmers. Carlyle closed his mouth and looked down at the table.

Bradshaw said, "Victoria has asked for our aid against the Cultural Marxists, and we must support them, just as we have in the past." He tilted his head, considering. "Victoria is a mighty nation, and God has blessed them with many victories. I believed that their triumph would never end."

He rose to his feet. "Gentlemen, I know what the papers have been telling you. I can tell you, privately, that they have not been honest. The Victorian Army has been destroyed, the Commonwealth has prevailed, and five days ago the Victorian government tried and failed to purge the Crusader branch of the Christian Marine Corps."

Prescott's eyes widened, but he had only begun to open his mouth when one of the officers grabbed him from behind, wrestling his arms behind his back and forcing him to his knees. The other three dragged Miller down screaming and cursing, ripping the Bowie knife from his belt and pinning him to the floor. "Under the circumstances," Bradshaw told the frozen members of the Board. "I think it is time for a change in our policy."

"God will punish you!," Prescott spat. "Victoria will punish..." A black bag snapped down over his head, and the officer threw him to the floor. He hit hard, and the huge policeman knelt on his back.

"Careful," Bradshaw said reprovingly. "Mister Prescott is a valuable man. I want him alive and well when we put him on the next boat to Chicago."

Miller was breathing heavily as the officers lifted him to his feet. "It won't work," he declared. "You think Chicago will accept you? The Butcher of Nashville? They may be goddamn Marxists and race traitors, but they aren't that kind of fool. That bitch Goldblum will kill you slow, like a pig."

Bradshaw took the Bowie knife from one of his officers, examined it thoughtfully, then drove it through Miller's throat. The Nightrider dropped to the carpet, twitching, and Bradshaw frowned as he bled out into the carpet. "That's a good point," he replied. "In this time of transition, it might be best if Memphis was led by a unifying figure. I nominate Alderman Peter Carlyle as our new Mayor."

In the silence that followed, every eye went to Carlyle. He sat there paralyzed like a deer in headlights, but finally managed to squeak out, "Me?"

"Yes, Peter. Contact those Revivalist friends of yours, the ones you think I don't know about, and tell them that Memphis has broken with Victoria. Tell them that I'm purging the Nightriders and ending the tributary system." That last statement drew a murmur of complaint, and Bradshaw wearily shook his head. "As patriotic Americans, we never wanted to serve as Victoria's enforcers. They threatened our homes and families, and now that their grip is weakening, we will be the first to rise in rebellion."

Peter Carlyle said, "That's right." He licked his lips nervously. "Um, we should raise the American flag, shouldn't we? To show everyone that we're all one country again?"

Heads nodded around the table. Bradshaw suddenly said, "Gentlemen! We've been thoughtless." He turned his head to look at Alice. "I'm so sorry, ma'am. Please take the rest of the day off. But as you go out, could you send in housekeeping? I'm afraid that this rug is completely ruined."
Gah, I love it! I love it so much! And it pains me that I cannot canonize it! Alas, somebody has a prior claim to Tennessee, and is working their way through an omake on the topic.

I will make use of Bradshaw, though, at a later date.
 
Gah, I love it! I love it so much! And it pains me that I cannot canonize it! Alas, somebody has a prior claim to Tennessee, and is working their way through an omake on the topic.

I will make use of Bradshaw, though, at a later date.
Not like Memphis is the only possible town or city down in the South that Victoria seemingly pacified with 'proven true' Christian factions that graciously donated to the cause whilst ensuring any 'problematic' folk were 'corrected' in their beliefs...

Real question is probably more like: How many times will we run into this same set up, and how many of them are worse due to being actual true believers.
 
Real talk on collaborators. Given the South's history as the only place that had a major civil war (places like California were essentially wars between two separate nations by the time they happened). There are going to be a lot of unfriendly states. Siding with a place like Robert Bradshaw's Memphis will likely piss off places that he oppressed and that rivaled him. Ones that don't have nearly the history of totally self-serving, heavy, collaberation.

I know people want to play friendly, but like, if we have to choose, I have a decent idea of who I want to side with.

Also as a Southerner, fuuuuuck bless the little hearts of monsters dears who mythologize their 'politeness' as one line they have. That politeness is a sham, as the moment you defy them, it will all evaporate.
 
One of my favorite quotes from WoT.
Mine is still Osangar topped the rise. :V
But the path of daggers quote sticks in the head whenever we discuss politics.

Also as a Southerner, fuuuuuck bless the little hearts of monsters dears who mythologize their 'politeness' as one line they have. That politeness is a sham, as the moment you defy them, it will all evaporate.
Well, bless your heart is an insult for a reason:V
Performative courtesy has never been an impediment to people imposing their idea of How Things Should Be.
 
Technically, "Bless your heart" is both a compliment and an insult, and getting the inflection juuuust right is a bit of an art-form. There's something to be said about a sharp tongue filleting someone without ever raising the voice or using curse words
 
Technically, "Bless your heart" is both a compliment and an insult, and getting the inflection juuuust right is a bit of an art-form. There's something to be said about a sharp tongue filleting someone without ever raising the voice or using curse words

True, but there is a key difference between "bless your heart' and "bless your little hearts" the second of which is considerably worse.

The most amusing part of me is how many Northerners react to that sort of Southern talk being two-faced, which only makes sense if you aren't from the South. Everyone knows what those insults mean and no one is trying for a two-faced insult, they are being very clear about the meaning if you speak the language. Though it can lead to hilarious misunderstandings such as when my sister was dealing with a friend up north who was crying over something vaguely silly (and I can't remember what) and my sister was calling her 'honey, sweetie*'. Then she said "I'm being so ridiculous but you are being so nice." And my sister had the moment of "I'm not trying to be nice or even pretend it, but now it's way too awkward to correct you."

*When used together these roughly translate into, "I love you but you are acting like an idiot/child", with the right inflections it can instead indicate that the love you part is met sarcastically.
 
Real question is probably more like: How many times will we run into this same set up, and how many of them are worse due to being actual true believers.

This is a time of testing, when everyone will get to see who actually believes in Victoria and who was just on the side of the big battalions.

Real talk on collaborators. Given the South's history as the only place that had a major civil war (places like California were essentially wars between two separate nations by the time they happened). There are going to be a lot of unfriendly states. Siding with a place like Robert Bradshaw's Memphis will likely piss off places that he oppressed and that rivaled him. Ones that don't have nearly the history of totally self-serving, heavy, collaberation.

Bradshaw doesn't imagine that he's going to be the Commonwealth's best friend. His strategy is to raise the American flag, blame everything on Victoria, and hope that the Commonwealth doesn't decide to send a squadron of gunboats after him.

I don't think anyone is proposing siding with the collaborators, but we don't have the resources to crush everyone who backed Victoria.

I know people want to play friendly, but like, if we have to choose, I have a decent idea of who I want to side with.

I don't think we're choosing sides in a grand battle between the forces of good or evil. We're going to be negotiating with a great many polities, all of whom will be more or less complicit in Victoria because everyone was a collaborator. Now, there are degrees of collaboration; we may have hosted Andrew Division, but Chicago was not serving as Victoria's enforcer. However, some of the people who were actively killing people for Victoria will now want to return to the side of America, freedom, and apple pie, and we'll have to carefully consider how to manage them.

Also as a Southerner, fuuuuuck bless the little hearts of monsters dears who mythologize their 'politeness' as one line they have. That politeness is a sham, as the moment you defy them, it will all evaporate.

Passive-aggressive evil is the most Southern thing. Almost everyone in the room is a monster with a great deal of blood on their hands, but they can't possibly forget their courtesies. That would be rude!

The most amusing part of me is how many Northerners react to that sort of Southern talk being two-faced, which only makes sense if you aren't from the South. Everyone knows what those insults mean and no one is trying for a two-faced insult, they are being very clear about the meaning if you speak the language.

A Yankee could propose marriage with less performative courtesy than a Southern asking another man to duel him to the death at dawn. One of the divides in our national culture is that Northerners tend to be direct in a way that Southerners consider rude, while Southerners tend to be overly polite in a way that Northerners consider insincere.

Yankees know the difference between Yankee bluntness and genuine rudeness, and Southerners know that "bless your little hearts" is not a compliment, but across cultures there can be genuine miscommunication.
 
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A Yankee could propose marriage with less performative courtesy than a Southern asking another man to duel him to the death at dawn. One of the divides in our national culture is that Northerners tend to be direct in a way that Southerners consider rude, while Southerners tend to be overly polite in a way that Northerners consider insincere.

Yankees know the difference between Yankee bluntness and genuine rudeness, and Southerners know that "bless your little hearts" is not a compliment, but across cultures there can be genuine miscommunication.
A thought: since the area that Victoria emerged out of was populated by people used to truthful bluntness, but the culture enforced by the rulers of Victoria idolizes the south, with one of the key parts of that to them being the unfailing politeness, a key part of their regime of whispers is the fact that you can never know how truthful or sincere someone is being.
Victoria causes mental problems for its citizens, how surprising.
 
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