Voting is open
I think he shipped production tooling and engineering diagrams for T-34s to the Viks, and let THEM build those pieces of crap themselves.

They could do it. They have steel mills. They have (crude, lead-acid battery powered) electric cars that they probably make themselves, and steam engines likewise. Manufacturing WWII tanks is not beyond them, especially if they had some help getting set up.

I would go so far as to say they didn't even send production tooling and engineering diagrams for the T-34, but rather that they whipped up the tooling and drawings for a cut rate monkey model early T-55 and called it a T-34. Because the Russians *would* have T-55s and conceivably have the means to help Victoria produce them.
 
I would go so far as to say they didn't even send production tooling and engineering diagrams for the T-34, but rather that they whipped up the tooling and drawings for a cut rate monkey model early T-55 and called it a T-34. Because the Russians *would* have T-55s and conceivably have the means to help Victoria produce them.

I doubt Victorian so-called intellectuals could even tell the difference.
 
I would go so far as to say they didn't even send production tooling and engineering diagrams for the T-34, but rather that they whipped up the tooling and drawings for a cut rate monkey model early T-55 and called it a T-34. Because the Russians *would* have T-55s and conceivably have the means to help Victoria produce them.
Unlikely, T-55s and T-34s have vastly different profiles and the difference is easy to see.
 
Except for Karl, I doubt any of the original fanatics would have remembered or known in the first place what a T-55 and T-34 looks like.

Also most T-34s still available would be heavily modified, more like T-44s than anything, because no one makes that 85mm gun anymore. Again it would be so freaking INCONVENIENT for the Russians to send anything older than a T-55, maybe slap on some cosmetic plates to alter the profile a little, and call it a T-35-100B.
 
I don't really think Victoria would care whether they were using T-34s or T-54/55s. AFAICT, both tanks fit into Victoria's retroculture fetish just fine (at least if the later T-54 upgrades aren't included), the main difference just being size/weight and a torsion bar instead of Christie suspension.
 
I guess it doesn't really matter anymore because all of those tanks have been destroyed. What do you think the Russians will send as replacements?
 
I would go so far as to say they didn't even send production tooling and engineering diagrams for the T-34, but rather that they whipped up the tooling and drawings for a cut rate monkey model early T-55 and called it a T-34. Because the Russians *would* have T-55s and conceivably have the means to help Victoria produce them.
Plausible.

But the thing is, I COULD imagine the Russians actually having the tooling for a T-34 production line crated and tucked away somewhere. It's within the realm of the possible. I just can't imagine the Russians operating such a line for anyone else.

By contrast, everyone calling what is actually a T-55 "monkey model" a T-34 (not just the Victorians, but everyone who has dealings with them) strikes me as unlikely.
 
Non-Canon Omake: The Life And Times of Captain Logan Mercier
The Life and Times of Captain Logan Mercier

(Logan POV)

"State your name for the Record of the Convention?" The Moderator said calmly.

You nodded, looking at your slightly worn French Military Dress Uniform. " Second Lieutenant Logan Jackson Mercier, Devil's Brigade Squad B. I represent the area of...Kenosha County on behalf of the Free State of Kenosha,It was a personal request, they have their hands tied currently and sent me in their stead."

The Moderator nodded in approval. "Understandable, You look a little overdressed."

"Most people act like they've never seen a real dress uniform in their life." You noted.

"They've never been further than a few dozen miles down the Mighty Mississippi kid. Hell a few of them don't even know what a France is, global geography is not their forte." The Moderator noted. "Not to mention the french TriColor is a dead give away, your not from around here aren't you?"

"I am a native of this land, just not raised." You said smiling.

The Moderator nodded. "An ExPat?"

"Refugee...Family fled the Southwest during the collapse, I was born in Arizona, Tucson Arizona." You answered.

You looked at the Clock. "We have time to tell a story?"

He looked at it as well, "We have a few days until the Convention starts, so...yeah we have time."

========================================

Year 0 (June 2045 AD), Tucson Arizona

(Adam Jackson POV)

Looking out the window of the Hospital you nodded. "Captain, the road is clear no sign of any rioters, Looters or Gangs."

Adam Jackson was not a soldier, or rather not originally, he was a SWAT officer for the Phoenix PD, and out of a tactical team of 30 men for an entire city he was one of four still left alive.

The long term problem that had currently been hounding them for the last few months was a thing called the Northern Confederation and some asshole named Rumford in particular.

Something about going to war with Mexico over something stupid or something like that...you never bothered to read the papers anymore.

Now he stood in a hospital in Tucson waiting for his wife to give birth and it pissed him off royalty that he couldn't be in the same room with her. A Hundred and Thirty-Five men and they couldn't spare a single moment for family time.

You sighed. They were right, damn national guard try hards, after the shit that was the War of the Confederacy they just wanted to leave...and by god you were bringing your family with them.

It was quite an easy choice. America was in for a rough patch like always, and maybe Europe was safer? Was it a dream probably but you had nothing else to go on.

A tap on your shoulder made you jump. "Hey Adam, take five...go meet your son."

You huffed all the way down the hallway to the ward to see the Medic, Jones smile. "I have no idea what I just did, I was not trained for this,but I pulled it off baby!! YES!!"

You kneeled down besides the Cot and smiled."You did great I'm sorry I missed it."

She smiled. "You were keeping the both of us safe, what father wouldn't."

The captain motioned his head in, "Get into the Basement there's a tank coming out way, then we'll get to the parking garage and prey people don't know the gates are locked."

You looked down. "Its a boy...I won, Logan."

She laughed. "Let's get going."
-----------------------------------------------
Year 3: (2048), French Gauinia

(Adam Jackson POV)

"Keep RUNNING!!" You shouted as the large group of people ran towards the gangplank of the Cruise ship in the harbor, A French Evacuation force that had trying to get all French Citizens out of the country.

The Captain was supposedly an Old Friend of your boss, they guy leading this little party, but he asked a favor, steal some intelligence from a Russian military outpost and bring it to them in exchange for transport.

It sounded like a good deal and then the group lost over 70 people and the Drone strike destroyed all the Vehicles and now they had to run at least Eight miles before they evacuated.

The captain was handed the intel, "Now get off the ship.."

You shouted "What We had a deal!!"

"I was told to alter the deal by the Governor he said-" You punched him so hard the bulkhead was dented.

"Where is he...I'll be right back." You said as the Boss kep a standoff on the gangplank.

The Captain, for all of the orders and forced circumstances was a good man and let them on and raised anchor.
----------------------
You had finished Dumping an entire room off of the ship as the captain and your boss just looked at you.

Thirty-Five people were killed by one man in a blind rage. The men looked important too, Businessmen, politicians, special interest donors and their sick trophy wives.

It felt cathartic in a way, to kill them all and dump them in the atlantic, and you were going to make sure you got away with it. "I consider this a successful day."

The Captain nodded. "They made me open fire on a group of Refugee's before you arrived, about Two-Thousand or so, they wanted to see how far their influence got damn fools...Once we get to France you'll be disarmed and thrown into a ghetto, it's either that or the firing squad, It's all I can do."

"Adam Jackson died in South America, an unfortunate casualty of war, defending a group of war refugees from civil strife…"

The captain then looked at your boss. "Oh...he's one of those american's, you think just changing your name will let you outrun the devil."

You shrugged. "I don't know, you willing to gamble that?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 9 (2054 AD)

(Logan Mercier POV) Public School 3, Paris Ghetto.

You looked at your book on US history and sighed. "One day."

"Hey Logan, why are you reading that Dumb American textbook?" A student said.

"Yeah isn't it a shithole." Another said.

You looked up. "It don't suck until Russia made things worse. If you all bothered to read a book instead of fucking around of social media, you'd understand."

You quietly packed up your book into your old bag and sighed. "I'm leaving you shit heels. Now fuck off."

You were going to leave, but they said something that made what blood you had boil.

"How much your mom make whoring herself out this time Mercier." One of them said.

That was the last straw. When you let your rage subside, you had broken his nose with a heavy backpack and were attempting to punch him in the face.

The only reason you were not expelled or had a mark on your record at all was because people were recording the entire encounter and you got off with a three week detention.

It made mom upset, but dad, seeing all the evidence and realizing the guy was baiting you was proud.

------------------------------------------
Year 17 (2062 AD) Mercier Home, Paris Ghetto.

You looked at the Application for the GIGN and smiled. "DAD I got accepted!!!"

Your father looked at the E-Mail and smiled "Congratulations Logan, this is great."

You sat down and sighed. "Well, what now?"

"Fight like hell son, just like I did." Dad said as you turned on the News.

"Huh the Damn Poles did it again!! I needed this." Dad said as the news gave the Good news on the Russian war in the East.

You smiled as Dad brought out some beer, "We're celebrating tonight, get your sisters and Mother."

"Ashly, Sarah, Mom!! Dad's in a festive mood, better get down here before it's gone!!" You shouted as the tenant slightly shook as they came into the living room.

------------------------------------------------------
Age 19 (2064 AD) French Gauina

You looked at the Carnage around you and looked at your Friends mangled bodies. "Lieutenant!! Pull back!!"

You did as ordered and ran back to the base, out of a unit of 35 men, you were the only one left… "Such a senseless waste of human life...So Senseless"

The reason your forces were in the Country in the first place was to prop up a local warlord in exchange for bases in the former territory, it was a rotten deal to begin with but the men upstairs wanted something to keep the population's mind off of the many failures of the government.

It was collapsing all around them and you could feel the writing on the wall. You looked around and grabbed your cell phone and sighed.

"Mom...Dad, I know that I made you mad when I left GIGN for the military, but I made my decision knowing the consequences and what would happen if I didn't come home, so yeah...I'm finally going to go to the hell that is the North American continent."

You sighed. "Goodbye I'll be sure to make sure you know I'm alive."

You hang up your phone and left it on the table.

In a moment you saw an old Ford truck and finally made your move, Taking advantage of the chaos of the battle, you took several radio sets, A Few thousand rounds of Ammo, A mortar and a dozen shells and...whatever the hell else was in the car and drove like hell to the north.

To America proper and to the rest of your life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Year 21 (2066) California-Nevada Border

"You sure took your sweet time trying to leave Frenchie." The Guard said as he looked at the old Ford F-150.

You turned off the truck and nodded "Had to take inventory, you know I'm the kind of man to do that."

The Ford was converted to biofuels years ago and had been fitted with large metal bars making a makeshift battering ram, A small solar panel on the roof kept the main battery powered and charged, the massive amounts of small metal crates and a small assortment of guns in the back seat told the man everything.

"You a madman or something?" The Guard asked as you sighed. "You actually want to go out there!!"

You nodded. "Yeah, heard of something called "Hellfire Burns" and the Devil's Brigade."

"So your hunting them?" He said.

"No I'm hoping to join them." You said as the man started to laugh.

"Oh you are nuts, Hey try to die close to the Border, a little policy we have, Border patrol gets what's on the border." The guard said.

In an hour the man was gone and the guard was left alone.
--------------------------------------------
Later that night the Border station was approached by a group of men. "Excuse me sir, We're with the Military group in charge of bringing supplies to Victoria, we were wondering if you saw this man?"

The photo was of the guy you saw earlier in the day.

"Maybe...I see a few people these days, what did he do?" The guard asked.

"He stole a Truck filled with supplies, ammo and weapons and fled east on this old highway. Have you seen him?" The Vick asked as they seemed more and more agitated.

"No...can't say I have." The Guard replied.

He didn't feel the bullet that killed him, he was too busy ascending to heaven.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Year 25 (2070 AD) Somewhere in the Midwest

You walked into the house without making a sound and sat in the chair, looking at your watch you knew he would be entering in about five minutes.

So you did the smart thing and took off your guns and put them on the table and looked around, old war memorabilia and a few spartan belongings of better times in America, before the collapse.

Times you couldn't even imagine at all. All you saw over the last four years is desperate hovels and basic homes and states as you searched across the midwest for something resembling a society.

So you sat down enjoyed a roof over your head and made some tea.

Colonel Ron Burns entered the room as quietly as you did and looked less intimidating then the stories they told about him. "Who the hell are you?"

The Group of men around the corner came in the room as the man himself held a handgun at your chest. It was quite the welcome you expected.

You let your military training take over and gave a crisp salute "Second Lieutenant Logan Jackson Mercier, formerly of the French Army, Honored to meet you sir."

Burns nodded. "French Army, I didn't think...oh your a deserter, an Expat from NYC, California ?"

"I entered through California, but that is it, I came here to offer my services to the Devil Brigade and its commander." You said calmly. "I also brought supplies a Ford F-150 with a solar panel ladened with supplies." You said curtly.

Ron Burns nodded "We found it, and assumed it had a car bomb under it, because it looked too good to be true."

You smiled. "I have the keys to turn off the bomb, If you'd hear me out and enjoy some of the Tea I made for us, I'll get it later tonight."

Hellfire Burns laughed. "You are an idiot...you know, gave up a comphy job in the FRENCH military to fight and die for an old man in the boonies for what, you have me genuinely curious son?"

"I did all of this because I believe in America." You responded.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Year 28 (2073 AD)

"Wait so you've never tried Chicago-style pizza." Isabella Castillo said as you sat in the pizzaria.

"I never had the chance, between me working my ass off trying to help train a SWAT unit and trying to find a date.

"Well you can try Phoebe...she's available." Isabelle said ordering a pepperoni pizza.

"She only loves me for the truck and the occasional games of Battletech we play, mostly because I'm the only one who has played tabletop RPG's." You complained as you looked at the lemonade you were given.

"If she really wanted to go on a date with me, she'd ask already." You said "Brianna is nice and available."

Isabella rolled her eyes. "Your Six years older than her Logan, face it are you ever going to get a date?"

"I'm getting dating advice over a pizza I've never tried from someone who is queer...god help my dating life." You said taking a bite out of a slice of her pizza.

-----------------------------------

Year 30 (2075 AD) Detroit USA

You calmly looked at the POW's as you marched them all down the road into the holding cells.

"Captain Mercier, well done, your unit held fast against the Vicky's I see the POWs are being rounded up." One of the officers noted as you closed up the pen they were in.

"Yeah. I have an Idea rolling around. Special Forces, wanna talk about it?" You said.

"Maybe later, your GF called and is demanding you talk to her now that the battle is winding down." The Officer stated,

You looked at the men, "I don't know, should I keep my lady waiting boys?" You said looking at the group of POWs.

"GO FUCK YOUR SELF YOU COMMIE BASTARD!" One of them shouted.

"Go realize your gay and get beaten by your freinds." You said as they started looking at each other. "I should go talk to her before I start hurting their feelings. Or worse make them realize that French is the superior language."

The Other Officers laughed as you moved on with the rest of the day.

"Speaking of which, when are we attacking that island?" You wondered.

AN: A look into Logan, from his background, to his upbringing to his recruitment as a member of Hellfire Burns Devil Brigade.

Also who should be Logan's GF Pheobe or Brianna

Enjoy!!
 
@PoptartProdigy
Quick question for a possible omake in the works: How free/propaganistic is California's press? How much are they allowed to speak against Russia and Victoria?
 
@PoptartProdigy
Quick question for a possible omake in the works: How free/propaganistic is California's press? How much are they allowed to speak against Russia and Victoria?
Would we know the answer to that question?

Approximately how many Commonwealth residents have even visited California in the past thirty years? Given that air travel on the continent is still sometimes a thing I imagine it's not zero, but I doubt it's many.
 
On the one hand, no, they can't afford human wave strategies given that the number of men it takes to pull such attacks off is "more than they sent this time." Just battering their way past a serious defense of Detroit with human wave attacks alone or primarily would take several times more men than they fielded this time, and THAT would entail putting a double digit percentage of the military age male population under arms- infeasible.

But you can (and do) easily overstate the scope of the impact here. Many, many, many nations, both ancient and modern, have rebounded from a military defeat that killed 3% or so of the adult male population. Often fairly quickly. It's not easy, but remember, "3% of the adult male population" is another way of saying "recruiting most of the current crop of 16 and 17-year-old boys, a year or two from now, or right now if you're ruthless and in a hurry, can replace these guys."

And yes that's bad for the economy, but Victoria has an advantage many pre-modern societies trying to bounce back from defeat did not have. You see, by the bare fact of how deliberately inefficient the Victorian economy is, there is a lot of labor they could save or activate fairly quickly if they just decided to act differently. Which means that while they may not have slack in the sense of "able to call up another 150,000 recruits tomorrow," they surely do have slack in the sense of "able to call up 300,000 recruits in eighteen months' time."

Like you keep saying, crazy, not stupid. They're going to be willing to choose national survival over pure perfect Retro-ism, because any Victorian political faction that isn't, that's willing to go full Year Zero, gets targeted and killed off the same way Rumford and Kraft themselves did.

The people now in charge of Victoria almost certainly have the ability to make a calculated decision that they would rather reign in a slightly less ideologically pure Victoria than die in the burning ruins of a significantly more ideologically pure Victoria. Otherwise they wouldn't be running the place.

...

Now, I DO agree that the Victorian economy as a whole is going to experience a recession or something along those lines, due to the sudden cutoff of Great Lakes trade and the loss of the Lake Erie fishing industry. Sort of like our own embargo problems, but maybe a bit less painful in proportionate terms if they have more going for them economically that doesn't involve the Great Lakes trade.

But at the same time, the Victorians can in fact become less inefficient as a state, which tends to offset a lot of things in the medium term. Their mechanisms of ideological control are strong enough to get away with that.

You cannot simply stare at your opinion of what the current Victorian economy and situation as it exists now is, and from this construct elaborate arguments about how screwed they are. Everyone here agrees they won't be back next year, that they need to "eat that sandwich," and that it'll take them a while. There is literally nothing to be gained by beating this particular dead horse again.
-Citation if you don't mind? For my personal edification.
To the best of my knowledge, the only state that suffered those sort of losses and kept fighting was the Roman Republic after Cannae, and they had the benefit of lots of allies, and the fact that said losses were of Roman citizens, not the entirety of the male population of Rome.

-Soooo, you agree with me? Like I said upthread, it's impossible while maintaining anything like the prewar status quo; I quote:
As I understand it, they actually can't afford more than that without significant external economic aid and/or a major revamp of foundational doctrine. Not while running an agrarian society with sundry extractive industries, and womenfolk being tightly restricted to a small group of homestead-focused economic activities.
They certainly can't afford attritive strategies anymore, like throwing men at machineguns because elan.
Pro-survival changes in the status quo represent opportunity to use retroculture's inherent contradictions against it.

-Prior to this war, Victoria was maintaining somewhere around 180-200,000 men under arms: 12 regular divisions + 1 tank division + 3 CMC divisions + the airforce + the navy + whatever training establishment they have. Out of a twenty million person population with an unknown percentage (My estimate was around 10% IIRC) of black people.

I think that was near their limit for what army they could support given their chosen economy, and they weren't being deployed for pitched battles.

-You are arguing against an argument I have not made.

I have repeatedly stated that their economy is fucked, and recently specified they will require possibly tens of billions of economic assistance in addition to the tens of billions of military assistance to rebuild. NOT that they are about to collapse. And I qualfied that Russia's intervention will allow them to weather much of the consequences anyway.

I mean, this is me three pages ago:
Nah. I don't think they'd collapse. I think the government would fall, and they'd go through a phase of vicious infighting before somehow re-emerging after some faction or the other re-established total control. Call it half a decade, more or less, before they could start rebuilding, assuming Russia was not in the picture. With Russia's intervention, they can skip or shorten that phase.

-I have been trying to quantify the economic impact for good reason.
Because while Alexander can definitely afford it, a two or three digit multibillion dollar combined military and economic aid package is Real Money.

Money that isn't being spent elsewhere to buy cooperation in the Pacific or Africa or stir up instability in the Middle East or Balkans or Eastern Europe or invest in climate stabilization processes or RnD programs(military or civilian) or military adventures, and which will therefore have real effects on the geopolitical landscape we are operating in.

It isn't just an idle exercise in pointing at the score.
Again, the only plausible explanation for how the Victorians manage to operate T-34s that they use, extensively, in warfare, is that they have a factory somewhere in Victoria itself that manufactures the tanks and the parts.

Think about it. There's no realistic way that Alexander had hundreds of WWII tanks lying around to give away, and certainly he'd have had no interest in maintaining a supply chain of parts for WWII tanks. He'd have used the much more widely available and mass-produced Cold War tanks instead. He certainly wouldn't keep a T-34 parts factory open just to supply the Victorians, and without such a factory there's no way that sustained campaigning by T-34s could be sustained.

I think he shipped production tooling and engineering diagrams for T-34s to the Viks, and let THEM build those pieces of crap themselves.
They could do it. They have steel mills. They have (crude, lead-acid battery powered) electric cars that they probably make themselves, and steam engines likewise. Manufacturing WWII tanks is not beyond them, especially if they had some help getting set up.
Canonically Alexander shipped the Vics their first tank brigade or division of T34s. By sea. In the 2030s.
Sinking a US Navy destroyer in US territorial waters to do so.
Stupid plot point, but it is apparently Lindtopia canon.

I honestly don't have any idea if they have any WW2 tanks still in storage.
I do agree that the Vics are carrying out domestic maintenance on the things, and new construction, at least by this point in time.
Only needs a 30s-era tractor factory, apparently.
I would go so far as to say they didn't even send production tooling and engineering diagrams for the T-34, but rather that they whipped up the tooling and drawings for a cut rate monkey model early T-55 and called it a T-34. Because the Russians *would* have T-55s and conceivably have the means to help Victoria produce them.
That is not plausible.
The T55 masses about 40% more than a T34, and carries a different caliber of cannon.
The Vics can tell the difference between a 76mm gun and a 100mm gun.

POSTSCRIPT
@Simon_Jester
The omake I owe you is still in production.
I'll attempt to get it finished tomorrow. My apologies for the delay.


EDIT
For my reference
UAVs of the 60s, 70s and 80s
 
Would we know the answer to that question?

Approximately how many Commonwealth residents have even visited California in the past thirty years? Given that air travel on the continent is still sometimes a thing I imagine it's not zero, but I doubt it's many.

I am sure there are uplinks to European telecom satelites somewhere in the commonwealth (again such things exist even in warzones today). Likewise foreign press CAN get here. Just like they COULD get into warzones during the Cold War. Even when one side did not want them to come.

I think our biggest problem is not that no members of the Commonwealth has been to California, or New York, or Europe. Nor that we don't have access to outside computer networks. The issue is rather that we don't have any major intelligence service whose job it is to collect and analyse scraps of information. Likewise we lack an easy way of transferring data between individual computers (even if they got a satelite link), unless we use radio or foreign satelites.

That is not plausible.
The T55 masses about 40% more than a T34, and carries a different caliber of cannon.
The Vics can tell the difference between a 76mm gun and a 100mm gun.

Nitpick: Any T-34s still in existence would have a 85mm or 100mm gun (though the latter would be non-USSR built variants).
 
Except for Karl, I doubt any of the original fanatics would have remembered or known in the first place what a T-55 and T-34 looks like.

This is a tank identification handbook for the infantry. Even if the T-34 does not appear on the latest updated version of this document in Victoriaverse, it'll be pretty obvious that the tank the OG Victorians are using does not fit the profile of a T-55 at all.
 
I am sure there are uplinks to European telecom satelites somewhere in the commonwealth (again such things exist even in warzones today). Likewise foreign press CAN get here. Just like they COULD get into warzones during the Cold War. Even when one side did not want them to come.

I think our biggest problem is not that no members of the Commonwealth has been to California, or New York, or Europe. Nor that we don't have access to outside computer networks. The issue is rather that we don't have any major intelligence service whose job it is to collect and analyse scraps of information. Likewise we lack an easy way of transferring data between individual computers (even if they got a satelite link), unless we use radio or foreign satelites.
OK, but lack of visits is a good metric for just how isolated we and they are. It's HARD to tell whether foreign media are accurate or propagandists when you lack context for where they live.


-Citation if you don't mind? For my personal edification.
To the best of my knowledge, the only state that suffered those sort of losses and kept fighting was the Roman Republic after Cannae, and they had the benefit of lots of allies, and the fact that said losses were of Roman citizens, not the entirety of the male population of Rome.
Note the important difference between "and kept fighting" and "and was able to field an effective army a few years later."

I'll admit that I don't have at my fingertips accurate casualty estimates for premodern warfare, but when civilian casualties are factored in,* just about every time in history that a nation suffered a major city or two sacked, population losses in the neighborhood of 3% were a very real possibility.

Cross-referencing deaths on campaigns (often estimated imprecisely) against populations (likewise) is a bit beyond me at short notice... But then, frankly, it's not like you've been presenting evidence that 3% casualties among military age males are enough to bring down a nation as hard as you imply.
____________________

*(and civilian casualtes are if anything more economically damaging than losing long-service veteran soldiers who weren't contributing directly to the economy in the first place)

-Soooo, you agree with me? Like I said upthread, it's impossible while maintaining anything like the prewar status quo; I quote:

Pro-survival changes in the status quo represent opportunity to use retroculture's inherent contradictions against it.

-Prior to this war, Victoria was maintaining somewhere around 180-200,000 men under arms: 12 regular divisions + 1 tank division + 3 CMC divisions + the airforce + the navy + whatever training establishment they have. Out of a twenty million person population with an unknown percentage (My estimate was around 10% IIRC) of black people.

I think that was near their limit for what army they could support given their chosen economy, and they weren't being deployed for pitched battles.

-You are arguing against an argument I have not made...
I'm going to be blunt, you've made so many long, meandering posts on this subject that it's getting hard to keep track of what you do and do not believe. The impression I've gotten is that you talk things up to an extent that makes it seem as if you think things are impossible, then say that you never denied them a few weeks later. You point things out as huge obstacles, then when other say "I don't think that will stop them," you shrug and go "you're disagreeing with an argument I never made."

If you actually do share the broad consensus that it will likely take several years (but not decades) for the Victorians to regenerate an effective army, relying significantly on Russian aid and probably equipping and training it differently...

Well honestly, it's time for us all, you included, to stop beating this dead horse.

-I have been trying to quantify the economic impact for good reason.
Because while Alexander can definitely afford it, a two or three digit multibillion dollar combined military and economic aid package is Real Money.
You cannot possibly quantify it accurately for the good and simple reason that there's too many unknowns in the prewar Victorian economy. We don't have a listing of their industrial assets or what they were dependent on.
 
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You cannot possibly quantify it accurately for the good and simple reason that there's too many unknowns in the prewar Victorian economy. We don't have a listing of their industrial assets or what they were dependent on.

No, but we do know that they have some large industrial plants: That large plant that builds steam train-engines for instance. Likewise there are references to other factories too. Though I think they would resolve that sort of thing by going back to the factory town sort of system, also probably distribute the factories one to each town and linked by railways.
 
The Life and Times of Captain Logan Mercier

(Logan POV)

"State your name for the Record of the Convention?" The Moderator said calmly.

You nodded, looking at your slightly worn French Military Dress Uniform. " Second Lieutenant Logan Jackson Mercier, Devil's Brigade Squad B. I represent the area of...Kenosha County on behalf of the Free State of Kenosha,It was a personal request, they have their hands tied currently and sent me in their stead."

The Moderator nodded in approval. "Understandable, You look a little overdressed."

"Most people act like they've never seen a real dress uniform in their life." You noted.

"They've never been further than a few dozen miles down the Mighty Mississippi kid. Hell a few of them don't even know what a France is, global geography is not their forte." The Moderator noted. "Not to mention the french TriColor is a dead give away, your not from around here aren't you?"

"I am a native of this land, just not raised." You said smiling.

The Moderator nodded. "An ExPat?"

"Refugee...Family fled the Southwest during the collapse, I was born in Arizona, Tucson Arizona." You answered.

You looked at the Clock. "We have time to tell a story?"

He looked at it as well, "We have a few days until the Convention starts, so...yeah we have time."

========================================

Year 0 (June 2045 AD), Tucson Arizona

(Adam Jackson POV)

Looking out the window of the Hospital you nodded. "Captain, the road is clear no sign of any rioters, Looters or Gangs."

Adam Jackson was not a soldier, or rather not originally, he was a SWAT officer for the Phoenix PD, and out of a tactical team of 30 men for an entire city he was one of four still left alive.

The long term problem that had currently been hounding them for the last few months was a thing called the Northern Confederation and some asshole named Rumford in particular.

Something about going to war with Mexico over something stupid or something like that...you never bothered to read the papers anymore.

Now he stood in a hospital in Tucson waiting for his wife to give birth and it pissed him off royalty that he couldn't be in the same room with her. A Hundred and Thirty-Five men and they couldn't spare a single moment for family time.

You sighed. They were right, damn national guard try hards, after the shit that was the War of the Confederacy they just wanted to leave...and by god you were bringing your family with them.

It was quite an easy choice. America was in for a rough patch like always, and maybe Europe was safer? Was it a dream probably but you had nothing else to go on.

A tap on your shoulder made you jump. "Hey Adam, take five...go meet your son."

You huffed all the way down the hallway to the ward to see the Medic, Jones smile. "I have no idea what I just did, I was not trained for this,but I pulled it off baby!! YES!!"

You kneeled down besides the Cot and smiled."You did great I'm sorry I missed it."

She smiled. "You were keeping the both of us safe, what father wouldn't."

The captain motioned his head in, "Get into the Basement there's a tank coming out way, then we'll get to the parking garage and prey people don't know the gates are locked."

You looked down. "Its a boy...I won, Logan."

She laughed. "Let's get going."
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Year 3: (2048), French Gauinia

(Adam Jackson POV)

"Keep RUNNING!!" You shouted as the large group of people ran towards the gangplank of the Cruise ship in the harbor, A French Evacuation force that had trying to get all French Citizens out of the country.

The Captain was supposedly an Old Friend of your boss, they guy leading this little party, but he asked a favor, steal some intelligence from a Russian military outpost and bring it to them in exchange for transport.

It sounded like a good deal and then the group lost over 70 people and the Drone strike destroyed all the Vehicles and now they had to run at least Eight miles before they evacuated.

The captain was handed the intel, "Now get off the ship.."

You shouted "What We had a deal!!"

"I was told to alter the deal by the Governor he said-" You punched him so hard the bulkhead was dented.

"Where is he...I'll be right back." You said as the Boss kep a standoff on the gangplank.

The Captain, for all of the orders and forced circumstances was a good man and let them on and raised anchor.
----------------------
You had finished Dumping an entire room off of the ship as the captain and your boss just looked at you.

Thirty-Five people were killed by one man in a blind rage. The men looked important too, Businessmen, politicians, special interest donors and their sick trophy wives.

It felt cathartic in a way, to kill them all and dump them in the atlantic, and you were going to make sure you got away with it. "I consider this a successful day."

The Captain nodded. "They made me open fire on a group of Refugee's before you arrived, about Two-Thousand or so, they wanted to see how far their influence got damn fools...Once we get to France you'll be disarmed and thrown into a ghetto, it's either that or the firing squad, It's all I can do."

"Adam Jackson died in South America, an unfortunate casualty of war, defending a group of war refugees from civil strife…"

The captain then looked at your boss. "Oh...he's one of those american's, you think just changing your name will let you outrun the devil."

You shrugged. "I don't know, you willing to gamble that?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 9 (2054 AD)

(Logan Mercier POV) Public School 3, Paris Ghetto.

You looked at your book on US history and sighed. "One day."

"Hey Logan, why are you reading that Dumb American textbook?" A student said.

"Yeah isn't it a shithole." Another said.

You looked up. "It don't suck until Russia made things worse. If you all bothered to read a book instead of fucking around of social media, you'd understand."

You quietly packed up your book into your old bag and sighed. "I'm leaving you shit heels. Now fuck off."

You were going to leave, but they said something that made what blood you had boil.

"How much your mom make whoring herself out this time Mercier." One of them said.

That was the last straw. When you let your rage subside, you had broken his nose with a heavy backpack and were attempting to punch him in the face.

The only reason you were not expelled or had a mark on your record at all was because people were recording the entire encounter and you got off with a three week detention.

It made mom upset, but dad, seeing all the evidence and realizing the guy was baiting you was proud.

------------------------------------------
Year 17 (2062 AD) Mercier Home, Paris Ghetto.

You looked at the Application for the GIGN and smiled. "DAD I got accepted!!!"

Your father looked at the E-Mail and smiled "Congratulations Logan, this is great."

You sat down and sighed. "Well, what now?"

"Fight like hell son, just like I did." Dad said as you turned on the News.

"Huh the Damn Poles did it again!! I needed this." Dad said as the news gave the Good news on the Russian war in the East.

You smiled as Dad brought out some beer, "We're celebrating tonight, get your sisters and Mother."

"Ashly, Sarah, Mom!! Dad's in a festive mood, better get down here before it's gone!!" You shouted as the tenant slightly shook as they came into the living room.

------------------------------------------------------
Age 19 (2064 AD) French Gauina

You looked at the Carnage around you and looked at your Friends mangled bodies. "Lieutenant!! Pull back!!"

You did as ordered and ran back to the base, out of a unit of 35 men, you were the only one left… "Such a senseless waste of human life...So Senseless"

The reason your forces were in the Country in the first place was to prop up a local warlord in exchange for bases in the former territory, it was a rotten deal to begin with but the men upstairs wanted something to keep the population's mind off of the many failures of the government.

It was collapsing all around them and you could feel the writing on the wall. You looked around and grabbed your cell phone and sighed.

"Mom...Dad, I know that I made you mad when I left GIGN for the military, but I made my decision knowing the consequences and what would happen if I didn't come home, so yeah...I'm finally going to go to the hell that is the North American continent."

You sighed. "Goodbye I'll be sure to make sure you know I'm alive."

You hang up your phone and left it on the table.

In a moment you saw an old Ford truck and finally made your move, Taking advantage of the chaos of the battle, you took several radio sets, A Few thousand rounds of Ammo, A mortar and a dozen shells and...whatever the hell else was in the car and drove like hell to the north.

To America proper and to the rest of your life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Year 21 (2066) California-Nevada Border

"You sure took your sweet time trying to leave Frenchie." The Guard said as he looked at the old Ford F-150.

You turned off the truck and nodded "Had to take inventory, you know I'm the kind of man to do that."

The Ford was converted to biofuels years ago and had been fitted with large metal bars making a makeshift battering ram, A small solar panel on the roof kept the main battery powered and charged, the massive amounts of small metal crates and a small assortment of guns in the back seat told the man everything.

"You a madman or something?" The Guard asked as you sighed. "You actually want to go out there!!"

You nodded. "Yeah, heard of something called "Hellfire Burns" and the Devil's Brigade."

"So your hunting them?" He said.

"No I'm hoping to join them." You said as the man started to laugh.

"Oh you are nuts, Hey try to die close to the Border, a little policy we have, Border patrol gets what's on the border." The guard said.

In an hour the man was gone and the guard was left alone.
--------------------------------------------
Later that night the Border station was approached by a group of men. "Excuse me sir, We're with the Military group in charge of bringing supplies to Victoria, we were wondering if you saw this man?"

The photo was of the guy you saw earlier in the day.

"Maybe...I see a few people these days, what did he do?" The guard asked.

"He stole a Truck filled with supplies, ammo and weapons and fled east on this old highway. Have you seen him?" The Vick asked as they seemed more and more agitated.

"No...can't say I have." The Guard replied.

He didn't feel the bullet that killed him, he was too busy ascending to heaven.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Year 25 (2070 AD) Somewhere in the Midwest

You walked into the house without making a sound and sat in the chair, looking at your watch you knew he would be entering in about five minutes.

So you did the smart thing and took off your guns and put them on the table and looked around, old war memorabilia and a few spartan belongings of better times in America, before the collapse.

Times you couldn't even imagine at all. All you saw over the last four years is desperate hovels and basic homes and states as you searched across the midwest for something resembling a society.

So you sat down enjoyed a roof over your head and made some tea.

Colonel Ron Burns entered the room as quietly as you did and looked less intimidating then the stories they told about him. "Who the hell are you?"

The Group of men around the corner came in the room as the man himself held a handgun at your chest. It was quite the welcome you expected.

You let your military training take over and gave a crisp salute "Second Lieutenant Logan Jackson Mercier, formerly of the French Army, Honored to meet you sir."

Burns nodded. "French Army, I didn't think...oh your a deserter, an Expat from NYC, California ?"

"I entered through California, but that is it, I came here to offer my services to the Devil Brigade and its commander." You said calmly. "I also brought supplies a Ford F-150 with a solar panel ladened with supplies." You said curtly.

Ron Burns nodded "We found it, and assumed it had a car bomb under it, because it looked too good to be true."

You smiled. "I have the keys to turn off the bomb, If you'd hear me out and enjoy some of the Tea I made for us, I'll get it later tonight."

Hellfire Burns laughed. "You are an idiot...you know, gave up a comphy job in the FRENCH military to fight and die for an old man in the boonies for what, you have me genuinely curious son?"

"I did all of this because I believe in America." You responded.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Year 28 (2073 AD)

"Wait so you've never tried Chicago-style pizza." Isabella Castillo said as you sat in the pizzaria.

"I never had the chance, between me working my ass off trying to help train a SWAT unit and trying to find a date.

"Well you can try Phoebe...she's available." Isabelle said ordering a pepperoni pizza.

"She only loves me for the truck and the occasional games of Battletech we play, mostly because I'm the only one who has played tabletop RPG's." You complained as you looked at the lemonade you were given.

"If she really wanted to go on a date with me, she'd ask already." You said "Brianna is nice and available."

Isabella rolled her eyes. "Your Six years older than her Logan, face it are you ever going to get a date?"

"I'm getting dating advice over a pizza I've never tried from someone who is queer...god help my dating life." You said taking a bite out of a slice of her pizza.

-----------------------------------

Year 30 (2075 AD) Detroit USA

You calmly looked at the POW's as you marched them all down the road into the holding cells.

"Captain Mercier, well done, your unit held fast against the Vicky's I see the POWs are being rounded up." One of the officers noted as you closed up the pen they were in.

"Yeah. I have an Idea rolling around. Special Forces, wanna talk about it?" You said.

"Maybe later, your GF called and is demanding you talk to her now that the battle is winding down." The Officer stated,

You looked at the men, "I don't know, should I keep my lady waiting boys?" You said looking at the group of POWs.

"GO FUCK YOUR SELF YOU COMMIE BASTARD!" One of them shouted.

"Go realize your gay and get beaten by your freinds." You said as they started looking at each other. "I should go talk to her before I start hurting their feelings. Or worse make them realize that French is the superior language."

The Other Officers laughed as you moved on with the rest of the day.

"Speaking of which, when are we attacking that island?" You wondered.

AN: A look into Logan, from his background, to his upbringing to his recruitment as a member of Hellfire Burns Devil Brigade.

Also who should be Logan's GF Pheobe or Brianna

Enjoy!!
For a few reasons, non-canon. Thanks for the submission.
@PoptartProdigy
Quick question for a possible omake in the works: How free/propaganistic is California's press? How much are they allowed to speak against Russia and Victoria?
If they end up fomenting rebellion, they shortly stop. They're not exactly complimentary, though. And Alex has no real interest in covering for Victoria on the world stage, on account of liking effort he invests to have a visible effect, so Cali gets to say whatever they like about the Vicks.
 
If they end up fomenting rebellion, they shortly stop. They're not exactly complimentary, though. And Alex has no real interest in covering for Victoria on the world stage, on account of liking effort he invests to have a visible effect, so Cali gets to say whatever they like about the Vicks.

I guess if you're giving the opinion columnists a concession you might as well invite them towards the lowest hanging fruit. Plus by letting everyone badmouth the black sheep of the Alex family they get the "See, we can tolerate descent! About our puppet that shuns the outside world as entirely evil..." card to wave around.
 
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I am sure there are uplinks to European telecom satelites somewhere in the commonwealth (again such things exist even in warzones today). Likewise foreign press CAN get here. Just like they COULD get into warzones during the Cold War. Even when one side did not want them to come.

I think our biggest problem is not that no members of the Commonwealth has been to California, or New York, or Europe. Nor that we don't have access to outside computer networks. The issue is rather that we don't have any major intelligence service whose job it is to collect and analyse scraps of information. Likewise we lack an easy way of transferring data between individual computers (even if they got a satelite link), unless we use radio or foreign satelites.

Had an idea, if we can improve our infrastructure enough then a Cyberwarfare division could be invaluable in the fight against post-Victoria enemies where in direct confrontation we would be disadvantaged. Plus internet access could significantly help improve our Telecomms and education in relatively lost cost ways.
 
The very finest steam-powered locomotives one can produce in a maximum of five urban centers hard-locked to 1930s technology.
Actually, a large segment should be running electric trains.
They have a surplus of generating capacity from all the plants they acquired, from the tidal power stations to the Niagara hydroelectric plants.
And electric trains are not actually incompatible with retroculture; the US started electrification in 1895 in Baltimore

Of course, retroculture makes people crazy, so I don't know if it works with their aesthetic.
 
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