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"Holy shit."

The Victorian civil war has spread to Pelee Island, the last island under Victorian control.
Oh wow. Three updates in a row, Poptart? You're really spoiling us here. Abd the civil war spreading this fast is delicious. A bit unbelievable, but I've heard of more ridiculous things happening IRL. At least we don't have to waste that much men retaking the island.
 
Alright, I edited a bit into the bolded part to clarify how many are left and some other bits. It's a bad day to be a Victorian in general, you manage to mass up with only horrific losses to enemy artillery to launch your attack and lose basically everyone you're able to send in before the sun comes up just to inflict 'acceptable losses.'
Done.
Oh wow. Three updates in a row, Poptart? You're really spoiling us here. Abd the civil war spreading this fast is delicious. A bit unbelievable, but I've heard of more ridiculous things happening IRL. At least we don't have to waste that much men retaking the island.
That wasn't me. :lol:
 
WOOOP WOOP WOOP! They're BACK!

[partial reactionpost follows]

-Toronto, Ontario, Canada-

-Torontan Directorate-

-Wednesday, April 10, 2075, 4:13 PM-

-Mayor Travis Fisk-


...

There's a pause, broken only by heavy breathing on Hill's end of the line. "How do your officers like loot?"

Fisk shrugs. "Oh, quite a lot. Why do you ask?"

"We really just need those men back," explains Hill. "Goods we can replace somehow. If your troops won't move without an incentive, tell 'em they can keep the baggage train. We'll live. But we can't replace those hands. Get my boys home in one piece, and you can have the baggage train."

Fisk grins. "That is a very generous offer, sir," he replies. "I'll relay that to the officers. I'm sure they'll find it more than convincing."

"Yeah, great, sure. Like bargaining with a Jew-"

The line cuts. Fisk takes a moment to dance a little jig. Then he darts over to the door to his office and leans out. "Stacie! Get me the mayor of Hamilton! Tell him that I know what he's doing and we're coming by to make him stop, but if he'll hear me out for ten minutes, we can both get rich today!"
"Oh the loot! Bloomin' loot!
That's the thing to make the boys git up an' shoot!
It's the same with dogs an' men,
If you'd make 'em come again
Clap 'em forward with a Loo! loo! Lulu! Loot! "


-Thomas Atkins

-Köln, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bundesrepublik Deutschland-

-Tuesday, April 2, 2075, 5:52 PM-


Felix peers at the monitor. "Clouds are clearing, I'm starting to see bits of ground. Finally. We haven't been able to get any good images since the Commonwealth's Air Force got ripped out of the sky."

Henning leans over Felix's shoulder. "Hey, give them some respect for it, they got in more hits than they had any right to." He peers at the image on the screen. "How do you think it turned out for the ground forces?"

"Slaughter," says Felix, watching the feed from the observation satellite intently. "Burns is good -- must be, to be alive -- but he's got, what, two divisions? If that? And one division with some ancient tanks that are probably all but rust blocks by this time. Maybe they'll be good for mobile cover. Maybe. More likely, they're there for morale. The Victorians will slaughter him."

"He might fall back," opines Henning.

"With how he's deployed?" snorts Felix. "Not soon enough. He's going to have a division of BTRs ramming themselves up his asshole by the time he decides to fall back. Good luck falling back with those on his side of the riverbank."

Henning sighs, leaning back in his chair. "I feel sorry for the old bastard. He's been fighting this long. Now it's all going to end."

"Probably felt age coming on and he decided to go down fighting," calls Annika over from her station. "Can't say I blame him." She turns back to her screen, typing away, and mutters, "If I had to live on the same continent as those madmen, you bet I'd grab and gun and shoot back."

"He could have had the decency not to drag a perfectly viable successor into things," opines Felix, frowning at her.

"Maybe he thought he had a shot," says Henning, folding his arms. "I don't know. If he hadn't let them land, he probably would have."

"But he did let them land," says Annika. "Somebody who's been fighting that long should know better."

Henning frowns. "Maybe he thought-"

"Getting something!" calls Felix. The other two immediately glance over, even as others in the room start turning their way.

The senior agent in the room walks over to them. "What do we have, Agent Sauer?"

"Getting clear images from the feed," says Felix. "If we look here..." He taps a few keys and zooms in on one section of the screen. He looks up-

His jaw drops. "Jesus."
"Daniel Smith," whispering, as though from a very, very long way away...

"Careless seems the great Avenger; history's pages but record
One death-grapple in the darkness 'twixt old systems and the Word;
Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne-
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.

We see dimly in the Present what is small and what is great,
Slow of faith how weak an arm may turn the iron helm of fate!"


"We interrupt your regularly scheduled programming with an emergency announcement. As many of you are aware, some hours ago, the Commonwealth of Free Cities issued a formal statement regarding their war against Victoria, simultaneously authorizing a full release of information and records gathered by war correspondents and foreign government observers present for the battle. They claimed that they had won a crushing victory against the Victorians. After careful review of the information now available, the City government is prepared to issue its own statement:

"The claims made by the Commonwealth's representatives are correct in their entirety. Twelve of the thirteen active service divisions in the Victorian Army have been destroyed, along with one of the three CMC field divisions. The last remaining Army division appears to be cut off on the Lake Erie Islands beyond any hope of recovery. By all indications, Victoria's campaign in Erie has been a complete, catastrophic failure. Mayor Mesbah will be holding a press conference on the matter tomorrow morning.

"We return you now to your regularly scheduled programming. Thank you for your time, and God bless America."
"Daniel Smith" :

For mankind are one in spirit, and an instinct bears along,
Round the earth's electric circle, the swift flash of right or wrong;
Whether conscious or unconscious, yet Humanity's vast frame
Through its ocean-sundered fibres feels the gush of joy or shame;—
In the gain or loss of one race all the rest have equal claim!
 
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They won't give it to you.
It controls the canals and the Niagara hydroelectric power plants.

And we lack the defensive strength to take or hold it. Buffalo is 400km straightline distance from even Toledo, and 700km from Chicago. Longer by water.
Attempting to project power that far at a time when we are still running coalpowered ships because of a shortage of diesel is the equivalent of attempting to eat steak after your doctor asked you to only take water.

Victoria's field army is dead, the bulk of its air force captured in campaign or needed to strike at insurrectionists, and their only navy consists of impressed vessels perhaps suited for patrolling a harbor (and currently in the Atlantic), meaning that there will not likely be much in the way of resistance, especially if the Buffalo militia has not made it back.

As for the bit about us still running coal-powered ships, what of it? While diesel certainly has a number of advantages over coal, such as longer operational range, greater power, and such things, we're not exactly operating on an intercontinental scale. Regardless of the fuel we use, we hold the lakes - if we didn't, we wouldn't be shelling the Victorian division on the islands into non-existence.

Anyway, I would certainly like to seize Buffalo if possible, because even if we can't hold it in the long term, we can use it as a staging point to say, launch raids on the resorts, contact the resistance, or move to sabotage the hydroelectric power plants. We could even use the airport for ourselves, and shoot down a pretty zeppelin or three.
 
Non-Canon Omake: A Lonely Penance
A Lonely Penance

Commonwealth POW Brig, Unknown Location near Detroit.

June 22nd 2075 AD


(Logan POV)

You walked in quietly and saw the Lieutenant looking at the wall, "So...heard the news?"

He was silent as you got a folding chair and sat down with your bible. "Not in a talking mood I see, well that's fine, I was going to be quiet for a while anyway."

The man was young, more than likely a recent officer that had been promoted or graduated, from the Dog Tags he couldn't be any older than Twenty-Seven,and that was the oldest estimate you could give in this day in age.

You opened to your favorite passage and nodded at it. "It's a good passage, honest and upfront about a lot of things."

The officer laughed. "You read Gods book but you only learn from one quote...idiotic and disgraceful."

"I would learn one of God's lessons fully and decisively with a clear mind and soul then to know a dozen lessons half heartedly, and that gives me some clarity, Who are you to claim to say the Lord would protect only you...if I recall that's pride." You said calmly speaking and not lifting your head from the bible.

The silence grew thick as you said your name. "Captain Logan Jackson Mercier...Commonwealth Military, Devil Brigade."

The man was silent for a moment. "And why would I tell you my name." He said as you looked disappointed at him.

"Because it's the polite christian thing to do, even if you are behind bars." You replied.

He looked disappointed for a moment. "Find...Mathew Shepard, Lieutenant of the Victorian Army, now go bother someone else."

You calmly pulled out a plastic bottle of beer and smiled. "See, share a drink with me. I insist."

You took a drink and handed through the small cell, and he took a drink and he gagged. "God...what shit is this?"

You grabbed it back and smiled. "Some assholes attempt at trying to bring back American Brew, he still needs work on the whole taste thing."

He laughed at that. "Shit tasting beer is something you Machine statests enjoy?"

"I've been trying to get them into wine making but climate is terrible and well we got into an argument about Pizza, and what should go with pizza, and what type of pizza was better with what toppings...it led to a brawl and I had to slip out a window." You said recalling the "Pizza debate" as it was called.

Matt gave a laugh. "Damn...Damn, your just people, horribly flawed and misguided ones but people."

"My guess is your family is a bit more liberal than most...considering everything?" You said.

"My Father, taught me to respect everyone as the bible commands, so yeah..never bought into the whole "Orcs are infirior" mindset I led a group of those fine men in battle and they were braver than most." Matt responded. "I saw the uniform, not the man wearing it...call me professional, but letting that nonsense get in the way of your leadership skills is not blindness it's just duty."

"Your not an Ideologe, and you made it to an officer's rank, you must have been a hell of a professional to not have your career cockblocked." You said noting the man's answer.

"Not from lack of trying...they tried really hard to make it hell for me, what about you? Where the hell did someone like you come from?" Matt said.

You closed your bible and smiled. "I just walked into Hellfire's camp with a truck of supplies after deserting the French Army in South America...A good way of that trek alone."

"Bullshit, you walked here?" Matt said.

"Well drove a Ford...but yeah its the same thing." You said as the man facepalmed.

"A Ford is not the same as walking...trust me...I should know." Matt sighed.

"Toche...so...A professional officer, you care about your duty so much...will your duty allow you to see the truth?" You started.

"And what truth would you have to say." Matthew said feeling curious.

"That your country is a puppet state of the Russians...and everything you know is a lie." You replied.

He was quiet.

You put it in a term he would understand. "To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'- Acts 26:18."

He was quiet again.

"You choose to believe the lies you've been taught or learn the truth about the world they have hidden from you. And maybe make your own damn choice for once." You said. "This is the first time you've ever been told the truth as it really is, isn't it?"

"But you've always known. Deep down in the pit of the soul,the part of you that is still American at heart. You know what the hell you were born in." You continued as he shook his head.

"I don't want to...leave the lie, it's so comforting." Matt said feeling small for the first time in years, despite that farmboy physique he had, the signs of early malnutrition damage, more than likely from the loss of resources from the boats early in the battle and what appeared to be old whip marks marred the mind of this man.

"When that's all you've lived off of, a comforting lie is better than the truth." You said.

You looked at him. "They beat you didn't they the CMC...they beat you for a reason."

"They told me it would strengthen my resolve." Matt said.

"No...they wanted you to stay afraid...because once someone sees a truth like that, it destroys the lie...say the truth in your own words." You said.

Matthew Shepard looked like a man who had been buried alive for days seeing the light for the first time...it both hurt and was strangled liberating at the same time.

"Victoria is a Russian client state, we were tricked into killing a nation and being a tool of someone else's conquest and we barely even knew it. We were alll fucking patsies to be used and discarded." He looked physically weak and disoriented as he whole MINDSET collapsed.

Surprisingly he remained standing after that internal revelation of the honest truth.

He wanted to scream at you, call you a liar. Yet he didn't.

He just looked...tired.

"You okay?" you asked as he sat in the makeshift cot.

"I just realized how much of a terrible person I am." He said. "My happy home life, My Conviction...EVEN MY FUCKING DUTY was built on a lie!! YOU TELL ME!!!"

You shrugged. "Your taking it better than the last three guys I talked to about this you tell me."

He then went onto his knees for a moment and banged the floor. "FUCK!! FUCK FUUUUUCK!!"

You could only watch the anguish leave the man through each strike of his fist on the floor.

He then lifted himself up and looked at the flag of his nation on his shoulder. "All my life...I've been fighting for a lie."

He tore the flag of his uniform and dropped it to the floor. "Liberation…I fight for my own beliefs, I abandon my nation-."

He stopped himself from finishing that though. "No...My nation lied and deceived me from my birth to this moment. My Nation abandoned me."

"My atonement for the lives I've destroyed, I must beg the lord for Forgiveness...but there is one thing I can do to ease my troubled concise." He said.

He took a deep drink of the brewed ale and gagged slightly. "I, Lieutenant Matthew Shepard, tender my resignation from the Victorian Army and desert my post as an officer...and claim the Government of Victoria illegitimate of its claims to the lands of the Former United States…" He started breathing heavily and started to sweat.

"And I will render the nation and its leaders and founders guilty of the charges of treason, consorting with Enemies of the People and abuses of Government and Military Power on the populations it was sworn to defend. I am a soldier of Victoria No more." He said to himself quietly and barely being able to hear.

"I am a soldier of Victoria no more." He said a bit more sure of himself as he replayed all the damned evidence of the Victorian Government's crimes he was apart of, heard of and witnessed.

"I AM A SOLDIER OF VICTORIA NO LONGER!!" He said through the sweat, propaganda filled education and lessons of human decency from the good book itself.

You smiled. "Good, Now we just have to make it official, and you can well, you won't be allowed to leave the cell, yet we will debrief you on the situation at large, and you will be a subordinate officer until you are retrained, requested and rearmed. And Pending an official hearing and Oath of Loyalty, you will be in logistics for at least half a year or longer. I know you want to rush in and prove yourself, but It ain't my call yet."

Matthew gave a salute. "I feel free, seeing the truth from a different lense it hurts…"

"Good things often do hurt..at ease and enjoy a drink." You said.
---------------------------------------------------
Matthew Shepard

Age:27

ID:3456192048

Rank: Lieutenant (POW)

Request to recognize desertion from Victorian Military as defection to the Commonwealth Military.

Hearing Status: Pending.

Status: Moved to a POW Camp along with other supposed defectors.


------------------------------------------------------
AN: Logan going all in with the MGS recruiting by actually getting POW's to defect and join our side.

One of these days I'm going to make a MGS PW stat sheet for them all for the Spec ops unit.

And also this is the quickest one to defect as he was a more independent minded officer.

Hey @PoptartProdigy are a few of the Victorian's going to defect to us, because I like to belive a few of the soldiers are taking the effort to get them on side ASAP.
 
Ongoing reactions:

Similarly, he was fine with the accommodations. Sure, the camp to which they'd moved him had hardly been luxurious, but he'd endured far worse.

No, it was the boredom that got him. At first, he was nearly alone. He had work to occupy his hands, helping his captors in the construction of his own prison. He had the occasional escape attempt, none of which ever succeeded.
:rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::cool:

"Traitors," he growled. "Those damned, ungrateful, cowardly Toledan traitors!" He slammed his hands down on the table. The pictures spill out, showing an image of Carter, bruised and battered, getting dragged behind that up-jumped whore the Warlord thought Victoria didn't know about. "We made you!" howled Bob, tears streaming down his face. "If it wasn't for us, you'd just be another customer for Detroit, but we made you strong! We gave you the freedom to stand, and you stabbed us in the back! God damn you to Hell!" With an inarticulate roar, he hurled his chair at the wall.

With a slam, the door burst open, and Commonwealth soldiers rushed into the room, their guns leveled. Francesca stood. "General, sir, please-"

"Not a damn word out of you!" He snapped, pointing at her. He seethed, and though he knew he'd regret saying it later, he hissed, "You get out of my sight, you worthless Communist whore!"

Francesca flinched, her eyes widening. For a moment, her mouth worked as tears slowly filled her eyes. Then she whirled and bolted out of the room, a sob echoing back through the door as it slammed.

* * *
Agent Francesca Yates straightened as the door closed, wiping her eyes.

"You good, Fran?" asked the guard next to the door.

"Fine," she replied, her tone light. She turned and walked down to the observation room, entering without a pause.

The man waiting there kept his eyes on the sight of the guards subduing Foulkes. "Nice one, boss."

"He's not as smart as he likes to think," said Francesca, picking up a piece of paper and a pen from the desk in the room. "And he's a sucker for a pretty face."

"Gotta say, it feels good to watch a Vick cry," he said, smirking.

"No kidding," she laughed, writing her observations down before they can slip away. "It was hard to keep a straight face."
Sara Goldblum:

"You GO, girl! Reminds me of my days waiting tables at Flo's."

[smirks]

-Augusta, Maine, United States of America-

-Northern Confederation of Victoria-

-Friday, June 14, 2075, 11:42 AM-

-Major General Gideon Blackwell (SUSPENDED), Victorian Army-


Major General Gideon You-Would-Be-Damned-If-Christ-Had-Not-Died-For-Your-Sins Blackwell — Gideon Damned Blackwell,
:rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol:

Blackwell raised an eyebrow and followed. Sure enough, Braxton led them to a door on ground level — one of several that the public never had access to. The two of them stepped through and into a security line.

What followed was the most thorough frisking Blackwell had ever experienced. He felt vaguely violated, and were the men searching him not also wearing Inquisitors' pins...well, he might have formed uncharitable speculations on their characters. As he stepped clear of the line, he snapped his clothes back into line with an aggrieved snort. He was a Victorian, he did not require frippery, but neither did he prefer to look like he had been accosted by a Sodomite.
:rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol:

Blackwell swallowed. He gathered himself one last time...and then he stepped through the door. Braxton closed it as soon as Blackwell's heels cleared the threshold, and all noise from the rest of the building instantly died.

Blackwell looked around the room again. As before, it looked barren save for the machinery at the end. His lips curled as he stepped over to the stuff; it didn't look retroculture at all. No bulk, no machinery, no honest, simple wood and steel. All thin, sleek, black plastic, far too slender to house anything but some wired abomination. It looked like the sort of thing the Commonwealth would have gladly sold their souls to possess, if only they hadn't already sold theirs to the Machine to begin with. It was the kind of thing he hated to see being used by his country. To be sure, they needed things like this in order for the people to enjoy the true bliss of simple living, but that didn't make it less distasteful. "Probably needs a technician every other day," he snorted, turning away.

At that point, all the lights went off.

Blackwell stood still, not daring to move a muscle. Then he heard the whining of the machine behind him coming to life. The hair on the back of his neck stood on end, and at last, he dared to turn.

Not an inch from his nose was a glowing green man, slightly transparent and larger than life. He looked older than Blackwell himself -- far older. Despite his almost withered appearance, his eyes glinted with the shine of steel, even through the haze and discoloration of the image.
The Boss, to the CMC.

The Czar.

You know, Khrushchev used to call Stalin "the Boss" during Stalin's rule of the USSR...

[laughs grimly]

Second, he took note of the thin circlet atop the green man's head, and immediately took a step back, dropping to a knee. He bowed his head. Then, in fluent, if accented, Russian, he said, "Your Imperial Majesty, Alexander IV Romanov. I am here as ordered."

The Tsar stared down at Blackwell for a long moment, weighing him with his gaze. Only when Blackwell's knees started to hurt did the Tsar speak. "Major General Blackwell. You are the highest-ranking survivor of the greatest military defeat my subject has ever suffered. Explain what occurred."

Blackwell swallowed. "As you command, Your Majesty. The Marxists-"
Darth Vader and Palpatine vibe here. A good one. Wonder what happens to Gideon Damned Blackwell...

Blackwell blinked at the gesture; the CMC was always more formal than the Army, but they did not tend to offer rank courtesies to Army officers. "...what is it, Colonel?" he asked, his muscles pinging with tension.

"I have received orders, sir," said the officer, eyes fixed somewhere over Blackwell's left shoulder. He produced the sidearm Blackwell handed over earlier and extended it to him, grip-first. "Your weapon."

Blackwell took the gun slowly, expecting Braxton to shoot him at any moment. "And what are your orders, soldier?"

"I am to assist you, sir," said Braxton. "Understand that this is completely of the CMC's own initiative, and the Boss is entirely uninterested in who ends up shouldering the blame for this fiasco." He tilted his head with the barest hint of a raised eyebrow. "And the decision of the CMC's Inquisitorial branch is that your assessment of the situation in Detroit is correct. We are offering you our full support, sir."
Whoa.

"Victoria's weapon of last defense has always been the militia, sir," said Braxton. "Now we face a battle not for something as petty as land, but for Victoria's very soul." He folded his hands behind his back. "You have an army, sir. It simply falls to you to direct it...and let us handle the rest of it. We've been ready for something like this for a very long time."

Blackwell blanched. "The economy is already slumping just from the shock of what has happened out west. If we raise the militias — and then feed them to the Crusaders-!"

"We will survive," said Braxton, uncaring. "The people will endure. They have grown accustomed to doing so. And we will sell them the misery as deliverance. Have faith, General." He smiled slightly. "God favors us."
Whoa.

They're... fighting over the sandwich... o_O

Civil war! The Crusader branch of the Christian Marine Corps has rebelled against the lawful government in Augusta. Violence began as CMC officers resisted arrests allegedly for the purpose of questioning their conduct on the front and in the planning stages of the war, and the surviving two CMC divisions followed their commanders into rebellion! Their conspirators in the Army General Staff, however, were detained with no incident. Major General Blackwell, the sole general to remain loyal, has raised the militias in a full mobilization and rallied loyalist forces to stamp out the revolt. Despite the fearsome reputation of the CMC, foreign observers predict that they will be overwhelmed swiftly by the loyalists' force of numbers. The loyalist government has sent overtures to the Commonwealth of Free Cities and the City-States of Toledo and Detroit, asking for peace negotiations. General Blackwell urged the populace in a public broadcast today to remain calm and stay strong, and trust that the mobilization will be brief. "The Army is already reforming from among the brave volunteers who have risen to cast out the Cultural Marxists infiltrating our most sacred defenders," he assured constituents. "We will stamp out this revolt by Christmas, and you may rest secure in the knowledge that once more, the brave warriors of Christ in Victoria stand between you and harm."
:rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol:

With that rolled and laughed at...

Hm. That's an alarmingly workable plan.

Also, a lot of the CMC equipment may be subject to being captured and repurposed by the New Model Army.

Apparently, "hologram," is not exactly the right word for what Alex has, but it is apparently a thing these days, and even after the Collapse, I could see it being scaled up by the 2070s. And it'd make a fantastic way for him to keep Victorian subordinates off-balance.

In general, I tend to characterize Alex's attitude towards Victoria like an abusive spouse's. He is very clear on his contempt for them, and everything is always their fault (now, it usually genuinely is, but that's not really the point by now). When addressing individuals in the know in a private setting, he has absolutely zero problems letting them know exactly how little he thinks of them, and he doesn't fucking hesitate to order the CMC — which, it turns out, does not actually answer to the Victorian government — to help an ambitious general kick off a bloody civil war if that's what it takes to make Victoria useful to Russia again.

He really is a bastard. Good sense of presentation, though.
I like Alexander IV. He reminds me of, to go back to old, old SF from before our time...

"Helmuth, speaking for Boskone!"
 
Regardless of whether invading Buffalo is actually practical, we can certainly hang the threat over the Victorians during peace negotiations. At this point, I doubt they're certain what we're capable of. If we park a few ships outside Buffalo and then make our demands, that should at least give them some pause. The real problem is that we can't trust them to actually obey the terms of the treaty.

What we really want from the Victorians is an immediate, one-time payment with something they can't sabotage. Some things I can think of are a bunch of raw materials or even a literal sack of cash.

Or something we don't care if they do breach. If we get them to agree to withdraw their agents and troops from unorganized territory for the duration of the truce, they'll probably never actually do it, but it does give us carte blanche to get rid of all the ones that we can find. If we make them admit internationally that they were at fault, then they'll walk it back later, but that's still a nice feather in our cap for the moment.
 
-Interesting that phones exist still.
Apparently even retroculture found them too useful to get rid of.
Wonder if these are cellphones or landlines. Probably cellphones, for much the same reason: easier to maintain cell networks than to lay and maintain a length of telephone wire.
Landlines are fully retroculture-compliant and have never been prohibited except perhaps in the handful of communities even the CMC looks askance at for unnecessary fanaticism.

And, as noted, they have the advantage of being limited in the amount that a deliberately impoverished and repeatedly raided community (let alone region) can sustain.

Realistically? The mayor of the city-state of Toronto has a phone. Many of the people of his city-state don't. And that's just how Victoria likes it.

Bear things like this in mind, when estimating what post-Collapse America does and does not have. Even experience in real world developing countries doesn't necessarily apply, because most developing countries are not regularly pillaged by invading armies who are actively conspiring to keep them weak and poor, and who will destroy property accordingly.

-From what I can find, pre-Collapse Hamilton had a population of more than 535,000 people, with more than three quarters of a million people in it's metro area. Toronto had a population of 2.93 million, with it's metropolitan area having almost twice that number of people. More than Chicago.
By comparison, Buffalo NY was 265k.

The area must be really fucked
Repeatedly, intensively, with the most disagreeable implements at Victoria's disposal.

They're actually real! Like, IRL we have some really small ones being built. It's a cool time to be alive. :D
Free-standing open-air 'holography' is not entirely unreasonable to posit by the 2070s. Especially in a dark room where a little bit of mist can be spread.

This will keep them busy for a while kicking over their own sand castles. We can build a pile of rocks in the meantime, hopefully.
The problem is, this is all of Victoria, more or less, coordinated by the part of the CMC that's closely in touch with the populace as a whole, against, well... twenty or thirty thousand admittedly well equipped soldiers whose identity revolves around fighting for the same people who are rising up against them.

All the guys who excel at making arrests with terrifying speed and making their enemies disappear into the night? Yeah, they're all on Blackwell's side.

We need to strongly support the CMC allied parts, as a fast victory for Blackwell is going to end up with a stronger state. If we can force a multi-year grind, or force a bloody CMC victory, the Victorian state will be out of action for quite. Every single one of their trained soldiers that falls in the civil war is one less thrown against us.
I dunno. A quick victory by the militias ensures that they have far fewer combat-experienced, veteran soldiers to throw at us next time. And depending on the CMC units' locations and what local authorities go over to them, we may have no feasible means to help the CMC units (yech).

I see Alex is going full Dark Lord of the Sith here. :V
If you were a wrinkly octogenarian, and you had seen Star Wars, and the entire goddamn world regarded you both as pre-eminent evil overlord of the poor shuddering 21st century, AND undisputed most powerful man on Earth...

...And you had freestanding open-air holoconferencing...

...Wouldn't you? Because I sure as hell would. :p
 
If you were a wrinkly octogenarian, and you had seen Star Wars, and the entire goddamn world regarded you both as pre-eminent evil overlord of the poor shuddering 21st century, AND undisputed most powerful man on Earth...

...And you had freestanding open-air holoconferencing...

...Wouldn't you? Because I sure as hell would. :p
At oldest Alexander would have been born in 1986, at youngest He would have been born in 1995.

Oh Dear god our worst ENAMY WAS A PREQUEL MEMER IN HIS YOUTH!!!

OH MY GOD!!
 
That isn't eating a sandwich, it's getting in a fight over how to make your sandwich in the first place. Sure, the end result means you can build yourself a half dozen hefty subs, but it's coming with the cost of ramming your already broken arm into the face of your only friend.
Victoria:

Two heavies, one sandvich.

Come to think of it, all the cities in Victoria are forcibly depopulated right?

Depending on where the two Crusader divisions are stationed, and combined with the complete lack of existence of Victorian Militia logistics, that's going to play hell with the Loyalists' ability to concentrate force in the early bits.

Which, combined with sending 0/5 Militia with little more than rifles and precisely nothing in the way of logistics vs 3/5 mechanized infantry with Russian Equipment (for as long as it lasts), some logistics training, and Every Marine a Martyr, means the first several battles are going to be complete and utter massacres.
I mean, you're not wrong... but ultimately, those CMC divisions are dependent on the civilian population for supply. If the Inquisitors really do manage to keep them from securing a popular support base, they're going to drown in the long run.

On the other hand, it might turn out sort of like the Czech Legion against the Reds during the Russian Civil War: a relatively small number of really hard bastards setting up a territorial base that their much more numerous enemy simply can't crack, despite wanting to and despite no one in the nation really liking the bastards all that much.

Though to be fair, there were a lot of other warlords and generals fighting for the Whites and drawing attention off the Czechs.

Picking out facts that immediately jumped out at me:

-Blackwell speaks Russian and wasn't surprised at seeing Alex.
That suggests that all the divisional-level generals are aware of the true relationship between Alexander and Victoria.
The Victorian General we have in custody may be a more valuable look into the depths of highlevel Victorian chicanery.
Pointo.

Although frankly, the rest of the world already knows that Alexander uses Victoria as a sock puppet whenever he pleases, and the conclusion that the CMC's secret police arm is in it with him is by far the most Occam-compliant explanation of how he keeps it that way.

No reason to leave them a cadre they can use to rebuild.
Their cadre will be militia veterans of the civil war, conscripted (Victoria has that institutionalized even if historically they haven't used it, as I recall) and trained by Russian drill sergeants.

-Going to note that Victoria suing for peace means they can't legally blockade the St Lawrence Seaway without once again declaring war.
Which means EU military transport ships, up to Seawaymax(<28,500 tons) can transit all the way up to Lake Erie with military and industrial equipment.
They can charge transit fees though.
Hmmm. I bet they could indulge in legal fuckery like declaring it a "demilitarized zone" and saying that means that no heavy weapons can spend more than one hour in the seaway. So driving across it on a bridge is fine, but running a ship over it isn't.

It'd be pretty blatant, but then the Victorians don't have to be non-blatant about their desire to avoid allowing us access to European arms.

-The green hologram is a pretty blatant callback to the Matrix trilogy, and being able to see the reality under the surface.
Which says something about Alexander's tastes in movies. :V
If he'd been a Star Wars fan, it would have been blue, to give Palpatine vibes.
Could be a technical limitation. Green lasers are easier to do than blue ones.

Sooooo this is cold as shit but by the same token it would likely work for us.

We should see about inserting some saboteurs in a limited fashion into Victoria's borders. Specifically amongst their slave populations.
By my standards that's not even cold. The problem is that our intelligence agency is a scattershot mess and has been ever since the assassin took out Audrey Jameson.

I hope those 3 CP turn out to have been worth it; so far I'm cautiously optimistic?

I'm not going to lie, I was more than half expecting a Mr. House style casket keeping the bloated corpse of Rumford alive.
I'm quite sure that the Russian commandos who blew Rumford's head apart while he was kneeling among the ruins of his faction of hardliner Year Zero freaks made very sure there wouldn't be enough left to keep alive on any plausible life support system.

We can come back to that when we actually have a foreign intelligence arm. We have internal security. But our equivalent of the CIA does not exist ATM.
If we CAN do it, we should try.

Not really.

Militia are drawn from civilian workers, and local militia often replicate local power structures, with the most important and trustworthy guys in critical positions. Most of these guys are critical parts of the civilian economy, and really can't be spared. Especially given the casualties they are about to suffer. Odds are they're just going to draw off a chunk of the usual suspects (18-25 year olds) and hand them over to Russian and East European trainers as usual.
That's not how this works.

Victoria, legally speaking, regards every able-bodied male as a member of the militia. They will give guns to whichever people they damn well want. They can quite easily pick the half million most expendable men and throw them onto the guns of the CMC, if that's what they really want to do. Some will die. A lot will die. But no, that does not mean that the dead are disproportionately drawn from the most critical sector of the Victorian economy, except insofar as young able-bodied men are more critical to the economy than, say, middle-aged, somewhat less able-bodied men.

I'm not saying this ends before the CMC runs out of bullets, or ends without a lot of Victorian dead.

But it's just... flatly not the case that the militia command structure inherently concentrates the most critical men in the Victorian economy.

The militia is going to have a difficult time in a three cornered civil war, to be sure.

Vive le Québec libre.
Forgive the Google Translate, but:

"Et ces mêmes Vix qui sont si fiers aujourd'hui étaient trois contre un à Monroe et à Leamington! Jamais je ne croirai que l'âme du Québec est morte! "
 
"Machine State", huh?

That sounds badass.

the adeptus mechanicus aproves

tho I really liked this chapter,we have a worthy adversary while still being a fanatical asshole
his interpretation of the Chicago state is the worst case scenario for collectivism,in wich people only exist as tool for the betterment of the state for the sake of the state itself
this isn't the case,we are a social democracy,private property and religion still exists along human rights to protect individuality

but nationalism has the same behavior he criticizes
its sin of making people exist ''for the glory of god/state/nation/community
 
I suspect there is a conspicuously well-armed NYC force today. Money does not stay in places that are not well-protected.
The Free City of New York in this AU is more than two times the size of Singapore in population, and Long Island alone is more than five times the surface area of Singapore. NYC had a 2019 budget of about 92 billion dollars. It's projected 2035 GDP is 2.5 trillion dollars.

They can afford a scary, scary military.
Reread the front page. The part where we got to vote on which Revivalist state to pick, and the Free City was one of the options. New York is functionally disarmed aside from static defenses, whose preparations are heavily based around being able to blow bridges and tie up an attacking Victorian army in urban warfare, I suspect.

It's possible that whatever militia exists could counterattack into the effectively total strategic vacuum created by the Civil War. But they're not secret badass heroic legions, they're not just waiting around with a nuclear deterrent or hundreds of armored vehicles or whatever you have in mind for them.

That's the way this game was crafted. Deal with it.

What they can do, and arrange, may include a lot- but it doesn't include having a large, well-ordered army that's capable of seizing and holding large chunks of territory.

The Saras would probably never approve it.
Goldblum wouldn't. I'm not sure even Johnson could talk her into it, even stipulating that she wanted to try. It might break their friendship and that is hard to do.

Well, I see an excellent opportunity for us to take Buffalo here, either at the negotiating table or by main force. With Victoria falling into civil war, its not as if they can spare the attention (or have the capacity) to stop us, so perhaps they'd be willing to just throw it at us to make us go away for the time being. They have already stripped it of everything valuable, after all...
I mean... we maybe actually could, depending on how the war plays out...

But it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Blackwell will win.

And he will fucking swarm us in the immediate aftermath. We'll be facing enemies with overwhelming numbers and rail and road routes running right up to our perimeter, while our own supply line runs over water and is not immune to air interdiction if the Victorians swing wide around our (presumed) air defense perimeter around Buffalo. Blackwell's smart enough to settle in for a siege, gradually bringing up more and more heavy equipment- this will be a great way to train the nascent Victorian artillery corps, shelling our troops like they were GIs at Anzio.

Or Dien Bien Phu.

I don't recommend it.

Victoria's field army is dead, the bulk of its air force captured in campaign or needed to strike at insurrectionists, and their only navy consists of impressed vessels perhaps suited for patrolling a harbor (and currently in the Atlantic), meaning that there will not likely be much in the way of resistance, especially if the Buffalo militia has not made it back.

As for the bit about us still running coal-powered ships, what of it? While diesel certainly has a number of advantages over coal, such as longer operational range, greater power, and such things, we're not exactly operating on an intercontinental scale. Regardless of the fuel we use, we hold the lakes - if we didn't, we wouldn't be shelling the Victorian division on the islands into non-existence.

Anyway, I would certainly like to seize Buffalo if possible, because even if we can't hold it in the long term, we can use it as a staging point to say, launch raids on the resorts, contact the resistance, or move to sabotage the hydroelectric power plants. We could even use the airport for ourselves, and shoot down a pretty zeppelin or three.
The big problem is withdrawing from Buffalo in good order, before the Victorians are in any position to do anything about it, when they're already making peace overtures.

The strategic posture required to try to take the place...

(Sara Goldblum: "Not one step backwards. Not one step. Not one fucking step, not ever again!")

...Is rather incompatible with pulling back out of the city when Blackwell finally gets his ducks in a row six months or a year from now.

Regardless of whether invading Buffalo is actually practical, we can certainly hang the threat over the Victorians during peace negotiations. At this point, I doubt they're certain what we're capable of. If we park a few ships outside Buffalo and then make our demands, that should at least give them some pause. The real problem is that we can't trust them to actually obey the terms of the treaty.

What we really want from the Victorians is an immediate, one-time payment with something they can't sabotage. Some things I can think of are a bunch of raw materials or even a literal sack of cash.

Or something we don't care if they do breach. If we get them to agree to withdraw their agents and troops from unorganized territory for the duration of the truce, they'll probably never actually do it, but it does give us carte blanche to get rid of all the ones that we can find. If we make them admit internationally that they were at fault, then they'll walk it back later, but that's still a nice feather in our cap for the moment.
True.

Another possibility is that if we can arrange some immediate benefit from something the Victorians give us (e.g. free passage for a few freighter-loads of supplies up the St. Lawrence Seaway), we might ask for a concession that we know they'll cut off later.
 
Victoria's field army is dead, the bulk of its air force captured in campaign or needed to strike at insurrectionists, and their only navy consists of impressed vessels perhaps suited for patrolling a harbor (and currently in the Atlantic), meaning that there will not likely be much in the way of resistance, especially if the Buffalo militia has not made it back.

As for the bit about us still running coal-powered ships, what of it? While diesel certainly has a number of advantages over coal, such as longer operational range, greater power, and such things, we're not exactly operating on an intercontinental scale. Regardless of the fuel we use, we hold the lakes - if we didn't, we wouldn't be shelling the Victorian division on the islands into non-existence.

Anyway, I would certainly like to seize Buffalo if possible, because even if we can't hold it in the long term, we can use it as a staging point to say, launch raids on the resorts, contact the resistance, or move to sabotage the hydroelectric power plants. We could even use the airport for ourselves, and shoot down a pretty zeppelin or three.
-I don't think you understand the logistical issues of operating over a thousand kilometers from home and attempting to hold territory right next to a hard core of rat bastards being supplied by a superpower.
Distance protects us.

-This is the equivalent of asking what's wrong with a force being armed with bolt-action rifles in the Gulf War.

-We certainly don't want to wreck power infrastructure that is expensive as shit and might get people who aren't the Vics mad at us.
The resorts, assuming they exist, arent operational. The fact that there is currently a Victorian Civil War means there are no tourists. You don't even have the overland capacity to stage ground raids into Victorian territory.

And you have yet to explain where you intend to get the sealift capacity to land several thousand men into hostile fire.

"Helmuth, speaking for Boskone!"
Huh.
Not many people who have read EE Smith these days.

Regardless of whether invading Buffalo is actually practical, we can certainly hang the threat over the Victorians during peace negotiations. At this point, I doubt they're certain what we're capable of. If we park a few ships outside Buffalo and then make our demands, that should at least give them some pause. The real problem is that we can't trust them to actually obey the terms of the treaty. What we really want from the Victorians is an immediate, one-time payment with something they can't sabotage. Some things I can think of are a bunch of raw materials or even a literal sack of cash.
Generally, don't make threats you can't keep. Wrecks your cred.

And frankly, it's a transparently hollow threat.
Because right now, the major economic assets in the area, the canal locks and the power plants, are almost certainly managed by a Russian corporation. And they can actually buy satellite imagery to check what our sealift capacity is. And can pay for actual seriousface weaponry at short notice. Or badger Alexander.

Not to mention that parking ships off Buffalo is inviting airstrikes by the handful of surviving VAF aircraft.
And it's hardly going to take the Russian Air Force twelve hours to supply actual working antiship missiles to the Vics.
Or something we don't care if they do breach. If we get them to agree to withdraw their agents and troops from unorganized territory for the duration of the truce, they'll probably never actually do it, but it does give us carte blanche to get rid of all the ones that we can find. If we make them admit internationally that they were at fault, then they'll walk it back later, but that's still a nice feather in our cap for the moment.
We're already killing the shit out of these guys openly anywhere we can. So frankly, are other people.
And once we have foreign intelligence up and running, we'll be killing them covertly as well.
I don't think we need an excuse.

And remember, we're not playing only to Victoria, but the outside world as well.
Our demands have to look reasonable.
Asking another state to get rid of their outreach is not reasonable or enforceable.
**********
That's not how this works.

Victoria, legally speaking, regards every able-bodied male as a member of the militia. They will give guns to whichever people they damn well want. They can quite easily pick the half million most expendable men and throw them onto the guns of the CMC, if that's what they really want to do. Some will die. A lot will die. But no, that does not mean that the dead are disproportionately drawn from the most critical sector of the Victorian economy, except insofar as young able-bodied men are more critical to the economy than, say, middle-aged, somewhat less able-bodied men.

I'm not saying this ends before the CMC runs out of bullets, or ends without a lot of Victorian dead.
But it's just... flatly not the case that the militia command structure inherently concentrates the most critical men in the Victorian economy.
Every man is a member of the militia. But militia are not professionals. Their command structures look a lot like the local social structure.
And Vics, at least Vic field officers, lead from the front. And even in modern militaries, junior officers have disproportionate casualties.

But the Vics have a strictly limited ability to pick and choose which militia units they can throw into the meatgrinder in a civil war; the CMC divisions get a vote of their own, and have the best training of any force left in the country. Their logistical woes are about to be exacerbated by the fact they just purged significant portions of their high command, while CMC Crusader command remains intact.

Basically, I think that they will be throwing every unit within reach into the fire.
And that's going to cost a lot of expertise.
 
Much as I like to encourage the line of thought that I am a genius who plans out every single aspect of their work down to the finest detail, with no single syllable being insignificant to far broader connotations...the hologram is green because I think that glowing green stuff looks cool. :p
Hm. You know, @PoptartProdigy, this priestly fella you introduced reminds me of somebody. :V

Guess that makes A Little Walk In Sugarloaf non-canon? Or is it still a bit too early for you to make the ruling?
Not canon yet. Smith is...a very different kind of priest from Boone, and Boone, if indeed he exists, remains in Victoria still.
A Lonely Penance

Commonwealth POW Brig, Unknown Location near Detroit.

June 22nd 2075 AD


(Logan POV)

You walked in quietly and saw the Lieutenant looking at the wall, "So...heard the news?"

He was silent as you got a folding chair and sat down with your bible. "Not in a talking mood I see, well that's fine, I was going to be quiet for a while anyway."

The man was young, more than likely a recent officer that had been promoted or graduated, from the Dog Tags he couldn't be any older than Twenty-Seven,and that was the oldest estimate you could give in this day in age.

You opened to your favorite passage and nodded at it. "It's a good passage, honest and upfront about a lot of things."

The officer laughed. "You read Gods book but you only learn from one quote...idiotic and disgraceful."

"I would learn one of God's lessons fully and decisively with a clear mind and soul then to know a dozen lessons half heartedly, and that gives me some clarity, Who are you to claim to say the Lord would protect only you...if I recall that's pride." You said calmly speaking and not lifting your head from the bible.

The silence grew thick as you said your name. "Captain Logan Jackson Mercier...Commonwealth Military, Devil Brigade."

The man was silent for a moment. "And why would I tell you my name." He said as you looked disappointed at him.

"Because it's the polite christian thing to do, even if you are behind bars." You replied.

He looked disappointed for a moment. "Find...Mathew Shepard, Lieutenant of the Victorian Army, now go bother someone else."

You calmly pulled out a plastic bottle of beer and smiled. "See, share a drink with me. I insist."

You took a drink and handed through the small cell, and he took a drink and he gagged. "God...what shit is this?"

You grabbed it back and smiled. "Some assholes attempt at trying to bring back American Brew, he still needs work on the whole taste thing."

He laughed at that. "Shit tasting beer is something you Machine statests enjoy?"

"I've been trying to get them into wine making but climate is terrible and well we got into an argument about Pizza, and what should go with pizza, and what type of pizza was better with what toppings...it led to a brawl and I had to slip out a window." You said recalling the "Pizza debate" as it was called.

Matt gave a laugh. "Damn...Damn, your just people, horribly flawed and misguided ones but people."

"My guess is your family is a bit more liberal than most...considering everything?" You said.

"My Father, taught me to respect everyone as the bible commands, so yeah..never bought into the whole "Orcs are infirior" mindset I led a group of those fine men in battle and they were braver than most." Matt responded. "I saw the uniform, not the man wearing it...call me professional, but letting that nonsense get in the way of your leadership skills is not blindness it's just duty."

"Your not an Ideologe, and you made it to an officer's rank, you must have been a hell of a professional to not have your career cockblocked." You said noting the man's answer.

"Not from lack of trying...they tried really hard to make it hell for me, what about you? Where the hell did someone like you come from?" Matt said.

You closed your bible and smiled. "I just walked into Hellfire's camp with a truck of supplies after deserting the French Army in South America...A good way of that trek alone."

"Bullshit, you walked here?" Matt said.

"Well drove a Ford...but yeah its the same thing." You said as the man facepalmed.

"A Ford is not the same as walking...trust me...I should know." Matt sighed.

"Toche...so...A professional officer, you care about your duty so much...will your duty allow you to see the truth?" You started.

"And what truth would you have to say." Matthew said feeling curious.

"That your country is a puppet state of the Russians...and everything you know is a lie." You replied.

He was quiet.

You put it in a term he would understand. "To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'- Acts 26:18."

He was quiet again.

"You choose to believe the lies you've been taught or learn the truth about the world they have hidden from you. And maybe make your own damn choice for once." You said. "This is the first time you've ever been told the truth as it really is, isn't it?"

"But you've always known. Deep down in the pit of the soul,the part of you that is still American at heart. You know what the hell you were born in." You continued as he shook his head.

"I don't want to...leave the lie, it's so comforting." Matt said feeling small for the first time in years, despite that farmboy physique he had, the signs of early malnutrition damage, more than likely from the loss of resources from the boats early in the battle and what appeared to be old whip marks marred the mind of this man.

"When that's all you've lived off of, a comforting lie is better than the truth." You said.

You looked at him. "They beat you didn't they the CMC...they beat you for a reason."

"They told me it would strengthen my resolve." Matt said.

"No...they wanted you to stay afraid...because once someone sees a truth like that, it destroys the lie...say the truth in your own words." You said.

Matthew Shepard looked like a man who had been buried alive for days seeing the light for the first time...it both hurt and was strangled liberating at the same time.

"Victoria is a Russian client state, we were tricked into killing a nation and being a tool of someone else's conquest and we barely even knew it. We were alll fucking patsies to be used and discarded." He looked physically weak and disoriented as he whole MINDSET collapsed.

Surprisingly he remained standing after that internal revelation of the honest truth.

He wanted to scream at you, call you a liar. Yet he didn't.

He just looked...tired.

"You okay?" you asked as he sat in the makeshift cot.

"I just realized how much of a terrible person I am." He said. "My happy home life, My Conviction...EVEN MY FUCKING DUTY was built on a lie!! YOU TELL ME!!!"

You shrugged. "Your taking it better than the last three guys I talked to about this you tell me."

He then went onto his knees for a moment and banged the floor. "FUCK!! FUCK FUUUUUCK!!"

You could only watch the anguish leave the man through each strike of his fist on the floor.

He then lifted himself up and looked at the flag of his nation on his shoulder. "All my life...I've been fighting for a lie."

He tore the flag of his uniform and dropped it to the floor. "Liberation…I fight for my own beliefs, I abandon my nation-."

He stopped himself from finishing that though. "No...My nation lied and deceived me from my birth to this moment. My Nation abandoned me."

"My atonement for the lives I've destroyed, I must beg the lord for Forgiveness...but there is one thing I can do to ease my troubled concise." He said.

He took a deep drink of the brewed ale and gagged slightly. "I, Lieutenant Matthew Shepard, tender my resignation from the Victorian Army and desert my post as an officer...and claim the Government of Victoria illegitimate of its claims to the lands of the Former United States…" He started breathing heavily and started to sweat.

"And I will render the nation and its leaders and founders guilty of the charges of treason, consorting with Enemies of the People and abuses of Government and Military Power on the populations it was sworn to defend. I am a soldier of Victoria No more." He said to himself quietly and barely being able to hear.

"I am a soldier of Victoria no more." He said a bit more sure of himself as he replayed all the damned evidence of the Victorian Government's crimes he was apart of, heard of and witnessed.

"I AM A SOLDIER OF VICTORIA NO LONGER!!" He said through the sweat, propaganda filled education and lessons of human decency from the good book itself.

You smiled. "Good, Now we just have to make it official, and you can well, you won't be allowed to leave the cell, yet we will debrief you on the situation at large, and you will be a subordinate officer until you are retrained, requested and rearmed. And Pending an official hearing and Oath of Loyalty, you will be in logistics for at least half a year or longer. I know you want to rush in and prove yourself, but It ain't my call yet."

Matthew gave a salute. "I feel free, seeing the truth from a different lense it hurts…"

"Good things often do hurt..at ease and enjoy a drink." You said.
---------------------------------------------------
Matthew Shepard

Age:27

ID:3456192048

Rank: Lieutenant (POW)

Request to recognize desertion from Victorian Military as defection to the Commonwealth Military.

Hearing Status: Pending.

Status: Moved to a POW Camp along with other supposed defectors.


------------------------------------------------------
AN: Logan going all in with the MGS recruiting by actually getting POW's to defect and join our side.

One of these days I'm going to make a MGS PW stat sheet for them all for the Spec ops unit.

And also this is the quickest one to defect as he was a more independent minded officer.

Hey @PoptartProdigy are a few of the Victorian's going to defect to us, because I like to belive a few of the soldiers are taking the effort to get them on side ASAP.
Unfortunately, non-canon. Even a lower-ranking and newer officer like a Lieutenant is going to be far too indoctrinated in the cult of Rumford to flip this swiftly. Somebody who, "never bought into the, 'orcs are inferior,' mindset," would never have passed Selection in the Victorian Army.
@PoptartProdigy this is a short, non-important question, but did EBR's Elijah Burke die in the Detroit War, or is he potentially still alive? Since he's canon and all.
I did enjoy the character, but he would never have allowed himself to fall prisoner to the Commonwealth.
 
True.

Another possibility is that if we can arrange some immediate benefit from something the Victorians give us (e.g. free passage for a few freighter-loads of supplies up the St. Lawrence Seaway), we might ask for a concession that we know they'll cut off later.
One possibility, but the real issue is that 'later' could mean 'basically immediately', or 'whenever the supplies arrive'. If we give them any opening, they'll probably take it. That dynamic closes off a lot of really useful options, but we're dealing with fascists, and inflexible diplomacy comes with the territory.

We're already killing the shit out of these guys openly anywhere we can. So frankly, are other people.
And once we have foreign intelligence up and running, we'll be killing them covertly as well.
I don't think we need an excuse.

And remember, we're not playing only to Victoria, but the outside world as well.
Our demands have to look reasonable.
Asking another state to get rid of their outreach is not reasonable or enforceable.
Playing to the outside world is the entire point. We would be arguing that this Victorian 'outreach' is a thinly veiled attempt at extortion, espionage, and intimidation (which it is), and demand that they cease it for the duration of the truce. It's an entirely reasonable demand.

And yes, it's impossible to totally enforce. It doesn't matter. The entire point is that it gives us the ability to remove Victorian agents from any territories we get into contact with, and leaves the Victorians without a good response. They can't object without admitting that they're violating the treaty. In which case they're... well, they're admitting to violating the treaty, and we have free hand to do whatever we want.

More importantly, it also gives other nations cover to do that, too. "Golly gee, we'd really love to keep you around, Mr. Victorian 'Aid Worker', but you know those dang Cultural Marxists are real scary. You did sign a treaty, and we don't want them knocking on our door. Here's a ticket back to Victoria, bye." Many of them won't take it, but some might, and that's a win in my book.

It's not amazing, but again, that's fundamentally the problem with this ceasefire. We can't trust the Victorians to actually hold to the terms of the treaty, which means we need to demand things up front. All our demands are going to have to be comparatively modest because of that.
 
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Unfortunately, non-canon. Even a lower-ranking and newer officer like a Lieutenant is going to be far too indoctrinated in the cult of Rumford to flip this swiftly. Somebody who, "never bought into the, 'orcs are inferior,' mindset," would never have passed Selection in the Victorian Army.
Well then Logan would have just shot the man...think of it as a dream he was having while in an empty cell.

Edit: Christ...Logan is going to become depressed at the rate he keeps trying and failing to break the indoctornation.

In my head he's already killed Nine POW's already. Though not the imprisioned ones.
 
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Wait I read earlier we captured a General right? Whats the Generals name?

Does anyone have a name, or did we not capture a high ranking officer.
 
You people keep saying this, but I keep wondering how, exactly, we're supposed to intervene when we have practically zero intelligence on the inside of Defeatia and minimal if any power projection that far, even with the Defeatian "Navy" and Air Force out of commission for the time being.

Well, for one thing, we could get in touch with the CMC and send them supplies. I imagine that despite having better training and equipment than the Victorian militia, since they are not being supported by the Victorian government they will soon be running low on supplies aside from what they can pillage from nearby towns. Unsavory though it may be, it's only to our benefit to keep them around at this point. Either they take longer to lose or they win and Victoria doesn't modernize its economy. We have little foreign intelligence, but all we need is to get in touch and then we can ask them to come near our border with Victoria to pick up the supplies. Maybe they won't trust us because we're Cultural Marxists but it's worth a shot.
 
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I definitely support us calling them the Defeatians forever. It's only fair.

-This is the equivalent of asking what's wrong with a force being armed with bolt-action rifles in the Gulf War.
If the only problem was our ships being coal-fired, it wouldn't be a problem.

It's all the other issues, mainly revolving around our lack of domestic heavy industry and high-grade military training, that would make holding Buffalo impossible.

And you have yet to explain where you intend to get the sealift capacity to land several thousand men into hostile fire.
It was listed as an option. Given the likely state of the defenses I bet we could land and at least temporarily seize Buffalo. It's holding it that would really, REALLY present us with problems.

We might do better to try and land on the Canadian side of the Niagara River and link up with Toronto. The Victorians aren't going to have much luck hitting us across Niagara Gorge...

@PoptartProdigy , do the Victorians hold any land on the Canadian side in those parts, or is it all unorganized/Torontan land?

Huh.
Not many people who have read EE Smith these days.
:D

Every man is a member of the militia. But militia are not professionals. Their command structures look a lot like the local social structure.
And Vics, at least Vic field officers, lead from the front. And even in modern militaries, junior officers have disproportionate casualties.

But the Vics have a strictly limited ability to pick and choose which militia units they can throw into the meatgrinder in a civil war; the CMC divisions get a vote of their own, and have the best training of any force left in the country. Their logistical woes are about to be exacerbated by the fact they just purged significant portions of their high command, while CMC Crusader command remains intact.

Basically, I think that they will be throwing every unit within reach into the fire.
And that's going to cost a lot of expertise.
...OK, well I think that the kind of people who are prominent community leaders in Victorian militia units are not necessarily the kind of skilled workers they'd miss most in a war, as opposed to being (for instance) the most conspicuously religious, CMC-supported figures in their communities.

And moreover, Blackwell knows the state of the Victorian militia, and isn't an utter idiot, and will be doing everything he can to make sure he still has a functional economy when this is over.

So just... can we agree to not dwell repetitively on this question? Can we put it to bed and let @PoptartProdigy rule on outcomes?

Much as I like to encourage the line of thought that I am a genius who plans out every single aspect of their work down to the finest detail, with no single syllable being insignificant to far broader connotations...the hologram is green because I think that glowing green stuff looks cool. :p
There is, if it makes you feel better, a fairly plausible engineering reason for the hologram to be green. :)

Red would also be a good option, but contraindicated in Victoria because then you really WOULD have problems with Victorians who'd never seen a hologram before run screaming out of the room.

Other colors, all harder probably.
 
Well, for one thing, we could get in touch with the CMC and send them supplies. I imagine that despite having better training and equipment than the Victorian militia, since they are not being supported by the Victorian government they will soon be running low on supplies aside from what they can pillage from nearby towns. Unsavory though it may be, it's only to our benefit to keep them around at this point. Either they take longer to lose or they win and Victoria doesn't modernize its economy. We have little foreign intelligence, but all we need is to get in touch and then we can ask them to come near our border with Victoria to pick up the supplies. Maybe they won't trust us because we're Cultural Marxists but it's worth a shot.
If word of that gets out, people are going to be pretty mad at us. These are war criminals we're talking about, and people are going to be asking while we're diverting supplies from Chicago's citizens and armies to the CMC, of all people. If we had the spare resources and the intelligence network to pull it off, it would be worth considering. But right now, it's just not in the cards.
 
Well then Logan would have just shot the man...think of it as a dream he was having while in an empty cell.

Edit: Christ...Logan is going to become depressed at the rate he keeps trying and failing to break the indoctornation.

In my head he's already killed Nine POW's already. Though not the imprisioned ones.
....I'm hoping your being facetious about something here?
 
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