Remove ads

Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

Voting is open
Reader mode
uju32 said:
Actually, a large segment should be running electric trains.
They have a surplus of generating capacity from all the plants they acquired, from the tidal power stations to the Niagara hydroelectric plants.
And electric trains are not actually incompatible with retroculture; the US started electrification in 1895 in Baltimore

Railroad electrification in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Of course, retroculture makes people crazy, so I don't know if it works with their aesthetic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They should be, but Lind specified steam.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
The very finest steam-powered locomotives one can produce in a maximum of five urban centers hard-locked to 1930s technology.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Now those can actually be fairly good and effective trains. If you invest the manpower into making solid railtracks you could have them travel at a very high speed too. The 1920s were an age of immense advance in the application of thermodynamic to trains, so the Victorian trains would be as effective as you could make steamengines.

I would also say that given that they actually MAKE steam-trains they must also have more heavy industry than they really let on. Making high pressure boilers is quite tricky for one (ironically Russia would be very helpful there), likewise steamtrains are about as far from simple as you can get. I also wonder if the Victorian train grid stretches into the surrounding territories or not.

For that matter does Chicago have any railway works? Train factories? Tram factories? It seems like the sort of thing that the retroculture might ignore.
 
Norseman said:
Now those can actually be fairly good and effective trains. If you invest the manpower into making solid railtracks you could have them travel at a very high speed too. The 1920s were an age of immense advance in the application of thermodynamic to trains, so the Victorian trains would be as effective as you could make steamengines.

I would also say that given that they actually MAKE steam-trains they must also have more heavy industry than they really let on. Making high pressure boilers is quite tricky for one (ironically Russia would be very helpful there), likewise steamtrains are about as far from simple as you can get. I also wonder if the Victorian train grid stretches into the surrounding territories or not.

For that matter does Chicago have any railway works? Train factories? Tram factories? It seems like the sort of thing that the retroculture might ignore.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Retroculture would ignore the trams, not the heavy industry necessary to maintain them. This is one of several things gated behind the infrastructure action.

(And of course they cheat. They're fascists. They always cheat.)
 
The Pennsylvania Railroad T1, built in 1940, could easily make 100mph and often exceeded that to the point where it'd damage its own engine (unofficially breaking the speed records for steam locomotives by hitting 140mph). Just for an example of what's possible...
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Retroculture would ignore the trams, not the heavy industry necessary to maintain them. This is one of several things gated behind the infrastructure action.

(And of course they cheat. They're fascists. They always cheat.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

TRAMS can be built without massive heavy industry, because you can assemble them workshop style, possibly spreading the work out across several workshops. Same way you might be able to make busses that way. Small electric locomotives... maybe. Steam locomotives? Naw. You absolutely need heavy industry for those.

stairmaster said:
The Pennsylvania Railroad T1, built in 1940, could easily make 100mph and often exceeded that to the point where it'd damage its own engine (unofficially breaking the speed records for steam locomotives by hitting 140mph). Just for an example of what's possible...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Steamcars kept winning speedrecords and races untill they were explicitly banned from contests. Steam is fascinating stuff you know.

You know I had this idea for a character called "Barrels" Johansen, who basically had a small workshop, seemingly innocent, that just happened to make gun barrels. Once the fighting started he suggested doing the same time the USG did in the 1890s-1950s period (IIRC) namely have a government program that supplies rifled barrels (hard to make) to gunmakers and artisans so they don't have to make them themselves.

The sort of WW2 Italian or Japanese workshop based industries are certainly far from ideal, but they are the sort of thing that could be made to work with what we got right now. Kinda pictured him trying to set that up first for rifles, then for other stuff.
 
Norseman said:
TRAMS can be built without massive heavy industry, because you can assemble them workshop style, possibly spreading the work out across several workshops. Same way you might be able to make busses that way. Small electric locomotives... maybe. Steam locomotives? Naw. You absolutely need heavy industry for those.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then maybe you have a line or two, but honestly, the place most able to afford them would be Chicago, which would probably be better-advised to just maintain the El.
 
Negentropy said:
Had an idea, if we can improve our infrastructure enough then a Cyberwarfare division could be invaluable in the fight against post-Victoria enemies where in direct confrontation we would be disadvantaged. Plus internet access could significantly help improve our Telecomms and education in relatively lost cost ways.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Needs fiber-optic landline access to the outside world.

PoptartProdigy said:
They should be, but Lind specified steam.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This may be one of those issues where the Rumfordista faction the Russians eventually shot were hardline crazy, while the successor "we're crazy but we're not stupid" government may have begun to compromise.

Also, there ARE good reasons to have some of the locomotives be non-electric, quite a few of them, because a lot of the track itself isn't electrified and never was, even pre-Collapse. Your choices are either diesel locomotives or steam engines fired by external combustion and boilers, and frankly the Victorians probably have an easier time sourcing coal than diesel fuel. Hell, they may have been buying or extorting some of the coal from us.

stairmaster said:
The Pennsylvania Railroad T1, built in 1940, could easily make 100mph and often exceeded that to the point where it'd damage its own engine (unofficially breaking the speed records for steam locomotives by hitting 140mph). Just for an example of what's possible...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Though it should be noted that this is on a long, long, straight, straight stretch of track...
 
Simon_Jester said:
Needs fiber-optic landline access to the outside world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Satellite internet works fine for internet access.
It's not cheap, assuming you want highspeed broadband, but satellite access is something I've used in Internet cafes in the Third World.

That said, cyberwarfare is a waste of time and money for the Commonwealth.
The Vics don't even allow home PCs, let alone present a threat surface for cyberwarfare to engage. And the Russians are not really a tenable target either at this point in time.

Negentropy said:
Had an idea, if we can improve our infrastructure enough then a Cyberwarfare division could be invaluable in the fight against post-Victoria enemies where in direct confrontation we would be disadvantaged. Plus internet access could significantly help improve our Telecomms and education in relatively lost cost ways.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Walk before you run.
First get electricity rolled out nationwide, then a voice and text cellphone network running again before you worry about internet access.
 
Last edited:
uju32 said:
Satellite internet works fine for internet access.
It's not cheap, assuming you want highspeed broadband, but satellite access is something I've used in Internet cafes in the Third World.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think if we want the level of Internet relevance that makes cyberwarfare feasible, satellite connections would be a bit unsatisfactory.

That said, cyberwarfare is a waste of time and money for the Commonwealth.
The Vics don't even allow home PCs, let alone present a threat surface for cyberwarfare to engage. And the Russians are not really a tenable target either at this point in time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This was being explicitly presented as a long term idea.

Also, quite frankly, there is no guarantee that we will only ever face Victoria and Russia as potential threats... And as the US has learned in real life, a developed nation can be targeted by asymmetrical cyberwarfare. Obviously the Commonwealth is in no shape to do it now, but a Commonwealth of thirty years from now that has (hopefully) entirely defeated Victoria may be in a different position.

uju32 said:
Walk before you run.
First get electricity rolled out nationwide, then a voice and text cellphone network running again before you worry about internet access.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ehhh. Something of a balance to strike there.

Rapid development of the countryside and rural electrification may well require centers of education and economic productivity that in turn need the cell phone network and (in specific locations) Internet connectivity. A lot of developing nations have Internet in the capital before they have electrification to every village, and this is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I think if we want the level of Internet relevance that makes cyberwarfare feasible, satellite connections would be a bit unsatisfactory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not sure what you're referring to.

Nationstate relevance? North Korea wages offensive cyberwarfare quite effectively against both corporations and governments, allegedly stealing billions of dollars, and one of it's only two connections to the WWW is a Russian satellite company that apparently resells Intelsat coverage. It's internet activity is allegedly less than that of the Falklands Islands.

For governmental and corporate research and covert action, the sort of 10-100 mbps+ VSAT satellite connections you can get aboard oil rigs and in places like Africa will be perfectly adequate, as long as we're routing through friendly or at least neutral countries.

If, OTOH, you're talking about consumer penetration of the internet, we're at least a decade and half out before that becomes a concern, if my WAG isn't wrong. Modern experience with mass cellphone deployment in peacetime African countries suggests a decade for 50% penetration.

Barring some sort of technological breakthrough in the last four decades, of course, which is not implausible.
After all, 1G analog cellphone technology first saw deployment in 1979 Tokyo, and 2G digital in the 90s.
Yet here we are, forty years later, with supercomputers in our pockets.

Simon_Jester said:
This was being explicitly presented as a long term idea.
Also, quite frankly, there is no guarantee that we will only ever face Victoria and Russia as potential threats... And as the US has learned in real life, a developed nation can be targeted by asymmetrical cyberwarfare. Obviously the Commonwealth is in no shape to do it now, but a Commonwealth of thirty years from now that has (hopefully) entirely defeated Victoria may be in a different position.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
By the time at which we have a significant enough consumer threat surface that hostile cyberwarfare is a concern, the world will be unrecognizable one way or the other. Both politically and technologically.
In the next ten to fifteen years, it shouldn't be an issue.

Simon_Jester said:
Ehhh. Something of a balance to strike there.
Rapid development of the countryside and rural electrification may well require centers of education and economic productivity that in turn need the cell phone network and (in specific locations) Internet connectivity. A lot of developing nations have Internet in the capital before they have electrification to every village, and this is not necessarily a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bit of a balance yes.

Not to mention political considerations, to avoid suggestions of favoritism in what was until recently a collection of citystates.
Takes over a decade and billions of dollars to build out a network, even in a nation at peace. In one that's going to be at intermittent war over the next two decades, that sort of investment is going to be...difficult.

I expect we're currently hooking up radio transmitters between settlements as a start at building internal communications though.
 
Last edited:
Does anyone know how long the California war lasted, or the specific dates other than 2047?
 
Mazeka said:
Does anyone know how long the California war lasted, or the specific dates other than 2047?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No idae
PoptartProdigy said:
For those keeping track at home: New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Atlantic Coastal Quebec, and Labrador. This is the final shape of the state of Victoria.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
@PoptartProdigy
Bears pointing out that Newfoundland and Labrador are both oil-producing Canadian provinces, with offshore oil fields.
According to Wikipedia, their 2015 oil production was 172,000 barrels of light crude.
A day.

I don't know if those fields have been exhausted now, or if they are still running; it's been 60 years since 2015, so exhaustion is probable.
But that was a significant cushion for the early Victorian state.
Even if Russian megacorps were skimming off the top.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Plus, the Victorians might well have popped the turrets off the tanks and put them on some kind of weird sloping platform to get more gun elevation out of them, since that's the main limit on the gun range and main battle tank guns aren't designed for high-angle fire.

@Strypgia might have more to say on this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sorry for the delay in reply. I spent the last week in transit to Iraq, and have only just gotten some free time to reply. Greetings from Qayyarah West Airbase. We got rocketed yesterday. It was 'fun'.
PoptartProdigy said:
I was more referring to the 40 continuous years of exposure to seawater spray with no maintenance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
About Victoria capturing M1s.... yeah, they almost certainly don't work at all anymore.

M1s are very maintenance-hungry beasts. They are the most capable MBT in the world, but take a lot of care and support to keep in battle-ready condition. To illustrate, in 2014 ISIS captured the entire M1 complement of 2 Iraqi Army divisions when they overran Mosul, plus more in the pathetic Iraqi counterattack at Tikrit a few weeks later. Some IA tanks were abandoned by their crews still running when the became stuck in a ditch or took minor fire. But ISIS had zero M1s in combat condition just a couple months later, since they had absolutely no parts or technicians able to keep them running. And this is a party that was not actively hostile to technology like the Victorians. The Victorians, already antagonistic to the very idea of a tech-intense vehicle like a 2030 model M1, would never be able or even interested in keeping it running. They could try dismounting the 120mm gun, but why? Without the computer targeting and gryo-stabilization to make it work, it's not very useful when you have functioning field artillery.

All that aside, the Victorians could not keep a unit of M1s operational even if they wanted to. An M1 has a jet turbine engine, which produces insane amounts of horsepower (An M1, weighing 68 tons, can still exceed 60 mph / 97 kmh on a good road, if the governor on the engine is disabled.) but that power comes with a voracious appetite for fuel. It takes 6 gallons of fuel just to start the engine on an M1. Even a full tank only gets you about 300 miles. During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, US M1s had to stop far more often to let fuel trucks catch up to them than they did for enemy resistance. The Russian contemporary tank, the T-90, eschewed a similar jet turbine because the Russian government knew there was no way in Hell the Russian Army could ever support the kind of logistical demand a turbine engine would require. The T-90 uses a more efficient if lower-power diesel engine, which while not capable of pushing the T-90 anywhere near the M1s blistering speed are far easier to supply.

Victoria very pointedly disdains the kind of hearty logistics train you'd need to support M1s, to say nothing of the petrochemical industry you'd need to even feed the fuel chain. So any M1s Victoria might have captured? They're rusted lawn ornaments now, at best.
 
Strypgia said:
Sorry for the delay in reply. I spent the last week in transit to Iraq, and have only just gotten some free time to reply. Greetings from Qayyarah West Airbase. We got rocketed yesterday. It was 'fun'.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Stay as safe as you can, mate.
Strypgia said:
About Victoria capturing M1s.... yeah, they almost certainly don't work at all anymore.

M1s are very maintenance-hungry beasts. They are the most capable MBT in the world, but take a lot of care and support to keep in battle-ready condition. To illustrate, in 2014 ISIS captured the entire M1 complement of 2 Iraqi Army divisions when they overran Mosul, plus more in the pathetic Iraqi counterattack at Tikrit a few weeks later. Some IA tanks were abandoned by their crews still running when the became stuck in a ditch or took minor fire. But ISIS had zero M1s in combat condition just a couple months later, since they had absolutely no parts or technicians able to keep them running. And this is a party that was not actively hostile to technology like the Victorians. The Victorians, already antagonistic to the very idea of a tech-intense vehicle like a 2030 model M1, would never be able or even interested in keeping it running. They could try dismounting the 120mm gun, but why? Without the computer targeting and gryo-stabilization to make it work, it's not very useful when you have functioning field artillery.

All that aside, the Victorians could not keep a unit of M1s operational even if they wanted to. An M1 has a jet turbine engine, which produces insane amounts of horsepower (An M1, weighing 68 tons, can still exceed 60 mph / 97 kmh on a good road, if the governor on the engine is disabled.) but that power comes with a voracious appetite for fuel. It takes 6 gallons of fuel just to start the engine on an M1. Even a full tank only gets you about 300 miles. During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, US M1s had to stop far more often to let fuel trucks catch up to them than they did for enemy resistance. The Russian contemporary tank, the T-90, eschewed a similar jet turbine because the Russian government knew there was no way in Hell the Russian Army could ever support the kind of logistical demand a turbine engine would require. The T-90 uses a more efficient if lower-power diesel engine, which while not capable of pushing the T-90 anywhere near the M1s blistering speed are far easier to supply.

Victoria very pointedly disdains the kind of hearty logistics train you'd need to support M1s, to say nothing of the petrochemical industry you'd need to even feed the fuel chain. So any M1s Victoria might have captured? They're rusted lawn ornaments now, at best.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
About what I figured. They can hardly keep trucks running, I'd have been shocked if they could do better for Abrams tanks on a beach.
 
Commonwealth Special Operation Handbook (Chapters 1-3) By Logan Mercier and the Devil Brigade.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Forward:

Alright… It has come to the attention of the Main Brass and the General himself that while our forces at the Battle of Detroit did an EXCELLENT fucking job out there, it could have gone alot better.

In my Report I made note of needing a proper scout unit that would specialize in lightning war, and if necessary sabotaging the enemy positions, supply lines and harass them with basic guerrilla warfare.

Plus it makes sense given that EVERY OTHER nation on earth has something resembling a Special Forces Unit and we frankly need one.

But that is why this mess exists.

-Captain Logan Mercier

----------------------------------------------------------------
Mission:

The main objective of the unit overall is to be a rapid strike unit in an area of operation when the regular units cannot hit.

These include, in short order.

Hitting Enemy Communications arrays, causing chaos as they lose communication with their commanding officers.

Destroying the Enemy supply depots, causing the enemy units to lose valuable equipment and cripple their operational capacity in the area, and maybe steal their ammo.

Steal Equipment, Let's be honest with ourselves even if the equipment is shit, they aren't going to keep it, we cannot in good conciseness let them keep it.

Assassinate Officers, It is a traditional US Army strategy to kill officers and NCOs to breakdown enemy morale and unit cohesion, we are no different we just have better rifles.

Scouting and Reconnaissance, All men on the ground need intelligence, our Job is to get that intel to them in a timely fashion.
------------------------------
Training and Selection:

To be selected for the Special Operations Unit you must be between the ages of 18-27, and pass a physical and mental fitness selection, this is so your mind and body are capable of handling the stress of the operations you will be taking apart of.

Training itself is divided into three phases, Outdoor, Urban, and Operational.

Outdoor training: With a majority of America now without proper infrastructure, ability to supply large numbers of people crippled by Victoria, raiders and across vast distances, you are going to spend the next two months learning how to navigate without electronics, hunt the american wildlife and avoid capture by enemy forces and return to friendly territory.

Urban Training: A good percentage of the American cities are in ruins and will be used as strategic bottlenecks to funnel our forces into and around these cities for any form of strategic advantages, this is the reality we have to deal with...so CQC, room clearing, firefights across buildings and the occasional but rare sniper duels, we are preparing you to deal with all of these bits of nonsense.

Operational: In Operational, you will learn the many facet of command operations, you will learn torture, torture resistance, how best to take enamy equipment, scavaging ammunition. How to operate several pieces of equipment that haven't been used in years,

Like FULTONS and Parachutes….I still have no idea HOW we have so many of these things, Thanks FEMA caches and military collectors.

----------------------------------------
The next Three chapters will be on the equipment issued by the state and how best to use it in the field.

AN: So I took some advice and decided to cut up the Original Spec ops Omake into a few parts for the sake of pacing, better control over what is in them and to have more clarity in it.

Enjoy.
 
Strypgia said:
Sorry for the delay in reply. I spent the last week in transit to Iraq, and have only just gotten some free time to reply. Greetings from Qayyarah West Airbase. We got rocketed yesterday. It was 'fun'.

About Victoria capturing M1s.... yeah, they almost certainly don't work at all anymore.

M1s are very maintenance-hungry beasts. They are the most capable MBT in the world, but take a lot of care and support to keep in battle-ready condition. To illustrate, in 2014 ISIS captured the entire M1 complement of 2 Iraqi Army divisions when they overran Mosul, plus more in the pathetic Iraqi counterattack at Tikrit a few weeks later. Some IA tanks were abandoned by their crews still running when the became stuck in a ditch or took minor fire. But ISIS had zero M1s in combat condition just a couple months later, since they had absolutely no parts or technicians able to keep them running. And this is a party that was not actively hostile to technology like the Victorians. The Victorians, already antagonistic to the very idea of a tech-intense vehicle like a 2030 model M1, would never be able or even interested in keeping it running. They could try dismounting the 120mm gun, but why? Without the computer targeting and gryo-stabilization to make it work, it's not very useful when you have functioning field artillery.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What are your thoughts on them basically driving the tank up to a pre-constructed berm and parking it there as coastal artillery?

Because that seems to be what they did- not even remotely trying to drive them around as a mobile armored vehicle.
 
Cyberphilosipher said:
Commonwealth Special Operation Handbook (Chapters 1-3) By Logan Mercier and the Devil Brigade.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Forward:

Alright… It has come to the attention of the Main Brass and the General himself that while our forces at the Battle of Detroit did an EXCELLENT fucking job out there, it could have gone alot better.

In my Report I made note of needing a proper scout unit that would specialize in lightning war, and if necessary sabotaging the enemy positions, supply lines and harass them with basic guerrilla warfare.

Plus it makes sense given that EVERY OTHER nation on earth has something resembling a Special Forces Unit and we frankly need one.

But that is why this mess exists.

-Captain Logan Mercier

----------------------------------------------------------------
Mission:

The main objective of the unit overall is to be a rapid strike unit in an area of operation when the regular units cannot hit.

These include, in short order.

Hitting Enemy Communications arrays, causing chaos as they lose communication with their commanding officers.

Destroying the Enemy supply depots, causing the enemy units to lose valuable equipment and cripple their operational capacity in the area, and maybe steal their ammo.

Steal Equipment, Let's be honest with ourselves even if the equipment is shit, they aren't going to keep it, we cannot in good conciseness let them keep it.

Assassinate Officers, It is a traditional US Army strategy to kill officers and NCOs to breakdown enemy morale and unit cohesion, we are no different we just have better rifles.

Scouting and Reconnaissance, All men on the ground need intelligence, our Job is to get that intel to them in a timely fashion.
------------------------------
Training and Selection:

To be selected for the Special Operations Unit you must be between the ages of 18-27, and pass a physical and mental fitness selection, this is so your mind and body are capable of handling the stress of the operations you will be taking apart of.

Training itself is divided into three phases, Outdoor, Urban, and Operational.

Outdoor training: With a majority of America now without proper infrastructure, ability to supply large numbers of people crippled by Victoria, raiders and across vast distances, you are going to spend the next two months learning how to navigate without electronics, hunt the american wildlife and avoid capture by enemy forces and return to friendly territory.

Urban Training: A good percentage of the American cities are in ruins and will be used as strategic bottlenecks to funnel our forces into and around these cities for any form of strategic advantages, this is the reality we have to deal with...so CQC, room clearing, firefights across buildings and the occasional but rare sniper duels, we are preparing you to deal with all of these bits of nonsense.

Operational: In Operational, you will learn the many facet of command operations, you will learn torture, torture resistance, how best to take enamy equipment, scavaging ammunition. How to operate several pieces of equipment that haven't been used in years,

Like FULTONS and Parachutes….I still have no idea HOW we have so many of these things, Thanks FEMA caches and military collectors.

----------------------------------------
The next Three chapters will be on the equipment issued by the state and how best to use it in the field.

AN: So I took some advice and decided to cut up the Original Spec ops Omake into a few parts for the sake of pacing, better control over what is in them and to have more clarity in it.

Enjoy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A very direct-action-focused group, I see. Fitting enough for your needs. While I cannot canonize omakes like this at this point, I will take it on board if I am in need of inspiration further down the line. Thanks!
And in the meantime, fuck it! I have a working computer for like a day. I'm writing shit.

I would like at this time to call for volunteer translators in German, Japanese, and Russian. Native speakers strongly preferred.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top