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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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[X] Plan Yummy Loot
-[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
-[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
-[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
-[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
-[X] Allow them both to observe.
 
[X] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
[X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
 
Godwinson said:
The coming initial clash is the moment that everything else in this campaign has been built around, ensuring that we don't get overrun and destroyed by the Victorians. Retaining our naval assets for helping to blunt their assault is very important, because even small bonuses matter a hell of a lot when the maximum delta of roll results is 2.
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I mean, yes, but. Yesbut.

Our strategy is also built around having fallback positions, reserves, and forcing the enemy to gradually exhaust and overextend himself. Remember that we didn't fight a decisive battle on the beaches around Leamington- our army was driven inland in disarray. But we had prepared positions ready to hold against their forces as they overextended into central Essex County.

If we fall back from the Raisin Line in good order, with most of our troops alive, falling back onto the line of the Huron which is fairly strongly held by a division or so of our troops, leaving the enemy to deal with a maze of boobytraps while laboriously dragging their army and its supply line over the pontoon bridge they finally managed to erect and secure at the cost of losing much of their armor to the Devil Brigade's guns and antitank missiles... Well, that's going to count as a win in my book. Holding them at the line of the Raisin would be great, yeah, but our original strategy was never based on being able to do that, and we'd never have even imagined being able to do that until we succeeded in vaporizing the eastern force.

It's not that you're wrong, it's just that I don't think this is a case where we have only one clear path forward that leads in the general direction of victory.
 
[X] Plan Yummy Loot
-[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
-[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
-[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
-[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
-[X] Allow them both to observe.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I mean, yes, but. Yesbut.

Our strategy is also built around having fallback positions, reserves, and forcing the enemy to gradually exhaust and overextend himself. Remember that we didn't fight a decisive battle on the beaches around Leamington- our army was driven inland in disarray. But we had prepared positions ready to hold against their forces as they overextended into central Essex County.

If we fall back from the Raisin Line in good order, with most of our troops alive, falling back onto the line of the Huron which is fairly strongly held by a division or so of our troops, leaving the enemy to deal with a maze of boobytraps while laboriously dragging their army and its supply line over the pontoon bridge they finally managed to erect and secure at the cost of losing much of their armor to the Devil Brigade's guns and antitank missiles... Well, that's going to count as a win in my book. Holding them at the line of the Raisin would be great, yeah, but our original strategy was never based on being able to do that, and we'd never have even imagined being able to do that until we succeeded in vaporizing the eastern force.

It's not that you're wrong, it's just that I don't think this is a case where we have only one clear path forward that leads in the general direction of victory.
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The point of making sure we have force there is to ensure that we're able to fall back in good order. It's dreadfully easy for a force falling back to be overrun, and I want to avoid that.
 
Another thing to consider, if they get through the first line, it puts a river crossing between them and their path of retreat. So if we manage to cripple them, they won't have an easy route back to Toledo. So honestly, I'd rather they get through the first line badly bloodied. I really want a clean sweep.
 
A point of consideration. Once they get over the Huron, which I believe will happen given we have a greater than 1 to 2 force size disparity, we can bring the navy around to pummel their rear lines, which would be absolutely delicious. 'Move away from the bombarding navy into the meat grinder that is the defensive line' or 'retreat from the assault front into the meat-grinder that is the Chicagoan Navy.'

[X] Plan Yummy Loot
 
NotAlwaysFanfic said:
A point of consideration. Once they get over the Huron, which I believe will happen given we have a greater than 1 to 2 force size disparity, we can bring the navy around to pummel their rear lines, which would be absolutely delicious. 'Move away from the bombarding navy into the meat grinder that is the defensive line' or 'retreat from the assault front into the meat-grinder that is the Chicagoan Navy.'

[X] Plan Yummy Loot
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You know what? This is significantly better than my idea of sending a boat up the river during the attack as a big moving pillbox, because it achieves more or less the same effect while exposing the ships to nowhere near as much risk. @PoptartProdigy , would this be a viable strategy for when they get over?
 
[X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
-[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
-[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
-[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
-[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
-[X] Allow them both to observe.

I'd much rather minimize our casualties than gain extra supplies that we don't actually need. We have professional logistics, so as nice as the loot might be, we don't need it nearly as much as we need to keep our losses as low as possible. We had our navy supporting supporting us last time and we still took heavy losses. We sacrificed our air force to keep our ships there during the landings, and now that the Victorian air is largely out of the picture there' even less reason not to have our navy help us against an even bigger force.
 
uju32 said:
PS
Those of you who voted for multiple plans should note that the vote tally is reading your apptoval voting as as one big plan.
Maybe you didn't put enough space between your plans?
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You have to have it divide the votes by block.

Edit: Nevermind, when I tried it, every dividing option apart from "none" gave the same output. I think it's a bit borked at the moment.
 
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[X] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
[X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Mopman43 on Jul 18, 2019 at 9:33 PM, finished with 81 posts and 40 votes.
  • [X] Plan Yummy Loot
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [x] Plan Hold the Course
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan Yummy Loot
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [x] Plan Hold the Course
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
    [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [x] Plan Hold the Course
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan Random
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan Yummy Loot
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
    [x] Allow them both to observe.
    [X] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
    -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
    -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
    -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.
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bdun140 said:
You know what? This is significantly better than my idea of sending a boat up the river during the attack as a big moving pillbox, because it achieves more or less the same effect while exposing the ships to nowhere near as much risk. @PoptartProdigy , would this be a viable strategy for when they get over?
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I'm hoping to stop them at the Huron line.
Concentrating three divisions there against their seven. Start shelling them when they're still on the road roughly halfway from Monroe, which should be about 12 km, within the range of both 105mm and 155mm artillery.

Then when they begin to attack, using the Navy to flank and shell them from the sea, hopefully collapsing their seaward flank.
 
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[X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
Going for the freighter while the Vics are going to be vulnerable in the water just feel too greedy to me. I won't be too salty if it does happen because the Vics might decide to reenact the Boston Tea party as a last act of spite.
 
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Reliable_2IC said:
[] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
Going for the freighter while the Vics are going to be vulnerable in the water just feel too greedy to me. I won't be too salty if it does happen because the the Vics might decide to reenact the Boston Tea party as a last act of spite.
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I'm not so much worried about a Boston Tea Party re-enactment as a Halifax Explosion re-enactment. :(
 
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Canon Omake: War Diary 473
  • Sidestory
    • War Diary 473

    War Article Form R

    Name of Security Officer: Sabah El-Ghawazzy

    -o-
    ​
    Three pages are ripped out of the beginning of the leatherbound notebook. The quality of the leather and especially the quality of the paper marks this as a formerly-well-preserved pre-Collapse relic. The ink lines have a precision to them that implies a ballpoint pen, and the consistency of the ink fingers the pen as a particularly good one.

    -o-
    ​
    Date: March 2075

    Article: Frontline Diary

    -o-
    ​
    Day 1

    This is Staff Sargeant Billie Cyrus of the 3rd "Liberator" Division, "Liberty" Brigade, Squad 473. I'm writing this because I want to keep a record on these idiots, just in case we all die and nobody makes it back. There's no getting around it. I'm expecting to get this stuff all censored like those Roles would have you believe, but I'll say it anyway because someone has to. We're going up against the Victorians, and no one else has survived fighting them. God willing, we'll be the first.

    Our merry band's got me, their Staff Sargeant, running herd on a couple old fogeys too damn stubborn to die and a bunch of young bucks too damn dumb to successfully kill themselves. I figure that either gives me great odds, or the worst ones possible. The way those Roles go, just about the best way to ensure that I don't make it back is to have a family waiting for me after I retire. Good thing I'm dodging both, at least until the war is over.

    Our squad's supposedly set up to try a new standard, since we're new and fresh with "talent": two fireteams of four people each, each man a rifle, and the command fireteam with me and two other poor bastards who're supposed to be picking my nose. Command fireteam's ABLE, second one's BRAVO, third one's CHARLIE, in theory. In practice, didn't work out.

    With me on the ABLE fireteam is our field medic Sasha Nguyen. Used to get shit for being half-Russian with a girly name, but God Almighty can that man run. He's built like a motherfucking Devil Brigade tank and moves like one too; swear on my life he could just pick one of us up, and still be the fastest sprinter and marathoner we have. Kid's quick on his feet and quick with his hands; field medic was a no brainer. If only he could manage to not run his mouth even faster, he'd be perfect. As is, I have to make sure he doesn't leave his damn tent most days.

    Also with me is our sharpshooter and general gofer Wilma Cox. She's earned being one of the old hags, despite being nearly the youngest soldier here; she's a stickler for getting things right, constantly nags us about what we should be doing, and honestly her old-lady glasses aren't helping. We're still not sure how she got the highest marksmanship score in the squad with the scoped rifle, but it happened, so she gets the scope.

    BRAVO's got the chucklefucks. We'll start with Richard "Dick" Perry. Motherfucker's not a bad shot, but he keeps on making everything about the size of his ego and how many Vics he's gonna kill and how many inches he is. Swear to God we all celebrated when Jessie knifehanded him into the ground.

    Max Espina, by contrast, is nice, respectful, and makes about as many decisions as a rock does. Everything he does is done the same exact way, and he just shuts down when there isn't someone to give him orders. Still, good kid. I hope he gets through this war, but I'm not holding out too much hope.

    His friend Tomas Pinto is almost the opposite - shoots the shit, flips me the bird, and gets the fuck away with it because goddamn can he lead a Role; if it came down to me or him in the squad I'd be booted out in a second and I'd get it. Unfortunately, his aim's a goddamn joke, so he's got the grenades.

    To round these guys out so they don't all kill themselves, I put our chaplain Drexel Hopkins as the leader of their fireteam, also coincidentally getting him away from James. I forgot that Max is in the squad, though, so now Father Hopkins just tells Max to get him some booze, Max gets him the booze, and then we all have to deal with Father Hopkins trying to drunkenly convert us all night. Hell, if we fight the Victorians and he's all liquored up, he might genuinely try to convert the Vicks instead of shooting them.

    CHARLIE's got everyone else. First up on our list is our dealer, James Bradley. Man deals in so much contraband I could probably put him in jail for the rest of his life, but he's got impossible amounts of the good shit and no way in hell am I going to let a guy like that go. Putting him in a fireteam with Drexel would've been a no-go, but I'm honestly not sure this is any better.

    Then there's Jessie. Everything about her is short: her height, her hair, and especially her temper. Hell, even her gun is a short-barreled shotgun, and I'm fairly sure she's got a file so that she can shorten her fuses on her grenades.

    The third sap is Nick Forest. He flips between having the biggest brain on the continent and being just so unbelievably dumb it's a wonder how he survived to be seventeen - for God's sake, the first thing he did when he grabbed his service rifle was stare down the barrel, without even checking and clearing the damn thing! He's a good kid though. Really hope he makes it.

    The last of these poor bastards is Shane Przybylski, squad leader. He's been pushing sixty, and even tells us that he remembers the world before the Collapse. He also has the most surviving relatives, so if anybody could tell our families in the worst case, his family probably could.

    God, I'm hoping against hope that we all make it through.

    My gut's telling me we won't.

    -o-​

    Intended Recipient: "Uncle Bill", full name "She-bil-ski" - probably Przybylski.

    Address: Jefferson Park Projects, Chicago, Commonwealth of Free Cities.

    -o-​

    Day 36

    We heard that the Victorians hit the east coast first, over by the "Freedom" Brigade in our Division. God, I'm ashamed to admit it, but I nearly cried when I found out that we weren't going to be hit first.

    Then I nearly threw up.

    It's real. The Victorians really are going to come after us. There's nowhere to run any more.

    -o-
    ​
    Day 40

    Tensions are running high. The radio's been broadcasting nonstop that every Commonwealth soldier that falls is taking down five Victorians with them, but we noticed when the place moved from the Leamington beaches to the village of Essex. Rumor has it that the army all died on the beaches, and the radio's just lying to us; any day now, the Victorian Army will finish looting Detroit and crush us like a grape. Father Hopkins is nearly permanently drunk, and Jessie keeps sharpening knives to hide in her leather jacket. Sasha snapped at Nick when Nick fumbled a cartridge and dropped his gun; I had to tell him to cool it, but half the squad nearly drew weapons right there and then. James mellowed out, but that's probably because he's smoking his own weed.

    The sticky air and the roiling thunderclouds aren't making things better; they feel like it's God's way of warning us, telling us to run.

    But I can't run. If I did, nobody would help Shane run, not with his bad back. I can't leave him behind.

    Right?

    -o-
    ​
    Day 48

    We didn't want to believe the rumors, but the radioman's telling us that our boys are giving their lives bravely on the outskirts of Windsor. If even the radio's saying they're almost at Detroit, what does that mean the real thing must be?

    What does that mean for us poor bastards, huddled up under our tents as God himself drops a lake on us, day in and day out?

    -o-​

    Day 50

    It's here. The Victorians are coming.

    We're given marching orders: Kill the scouts, and harass them.

    The rain hasn't stopped. God must be furious with us for staying here.

    Maybe He'll think better of us if we survive this mess.

    -o-
    ​
    Day 51

    We met the Victorians today in the pouring rain and with mud sloshing into our boots. James saw 'em first and called it in.

    The Victorians moved forward, surging through the bushes and holding their guns like they knew exactly how to use it. None of them had their hands shaking like ours did, and it felt like every last one of them was ten feet tall. They stomped their way through the mud as though it didn't affect them at all.

    Then someone fired a gun, their squad leader went down, and suddenly all I could see was the smoke from my own gun and the roar of automatic fire.

    All four of them went down, and none of ours were hurt.

    I'm filled with a strange feeling. I think our whole squad is.

    Today, we saw the Victorians bleed and die. We killed them with our own two hands.

    We can beat the Victorians.

    God Almighty, I'm praying that this keeps up.

    -o-
    ​
    On Day 52, a different author writes the entry. Staff Sargeant Billie Cyrus' fate is yet unknown.
     
  • Sidestory
    • [X] Plan Shoot, Loot, & Scoot
    -[X] Hold the 1st Division as a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
    -[X] No. The decisive moment has not come, and the 1st Division remains your most fearsome assets even without their usual gear.
    -[X] You will leave the bridge standing until blowing it presents the opportunity to split the Victorian force in half. The Victorians will almost certainly find and defuse the charges; leaving the Navy on call to bombard the bridge is highly recommended if you intend to use this tactic.
    -[X] The Navy will divide and conquer. The fleet's marine contingent, escorted by three gunboats, will take the stranded freighter. The other eight ships keep guns and pressure on the advancing Victorians.
    -[X] Allow them both to observe.

    Do not blow the bridge.
    Do not blow the bridge.
    The bridge is bait. Do not blow the bridge until a painful-to-lose portion of the Vickies are across it.

    Once the bridge is blown, they have to look elsewhere for a crossing, or try going amphibious against a ready, on-site enemy with gunboat artillery already dialed in. You let them try to cross, get just enough across that losing the cut-off element will hurt, then you blow it with charges or naval gunfire.

    You defeat a larger enemy by forcing him to fight on your conditions, at a place of your choosing. You break him up into smaller pieces and defeat them in detail. By letting a regiment or brigade get across, then blowing the bridge, you trap that part alone against a river with no way to retreat. They surrender or die. They will not suddenly be saved by their buddies right behind them charging across the river which is now choked with dropped concrete chunks: BTR's may be amphibious, but you don't just drive them down into the water and floor it. Converting to 'water crossing mode' takes time and stopping to prepare the vehicle. And if the river is anything but calm and flat, things can get dicey: In the Army I drove an M577 and later an M1068. They were theoretically amphibious with some preparation, but when I asked about the procedure, I was flatly told 'don't even try'.

    Also, blowing the bridge is a non-recoverable act. We can't undo it, and we're not rebuilding an Interstate bridge anytime soon. As long as the bridge is up, the Vickies will have to try to use it, or at the least guard it. It lets us exercise some control of their actions. We need all of that we can get. If we blow the bridge too soon, that leaves us with the same problem of them being able to try a crossing somewhere, anywhere else.

    I recommend against using OWE at this time. If things do become critical, we break it out, but defending against an attempted river crossing is one of the easier tactical positions to be in, even if outnumbered, so we should save our 4 remaining shots.

    I do not want to let them put a division or two across. A brigade or so at most, unless we see a good chance to really crush what crosses. But we very much do want to let at least some cross, then trap them. We need to dice the Vickies into bite-sized pieces, and this is too good a window to pass up.
    As wheeled vehicles, they will possibly lead with the BTRs, even if not going for an amphib crossing. BTR's are not really armored. The hull armor is made from welded steel and provides protection against small arms fire and shrapnel only. The frontal armor can withstand 7.62 mm (AK-47, etc)bullets from any range. The rest of the armor can withstand 7.62 mm bullets from a range of 100 m. A M2 .50 can penetrate that. Any anti-tank weapon will mulch that.

    F-16's are not good anti-shipping platforms with just guns. They have about 5 seconds of fire in each. They are not well-trained ground/surface attack pilots. (Frankly, if they try to go in with guns on a lake surface, they are going to lose some birds, to debris, going to low and suddenly becoming submarines, what have you.) They're not going to be potting our ships that easily, especially with only 20 aircraft left. That will be a far better defense than our AA can provide. F-16s are too fast for WWII style machine guns or autocannons to hit without computer and radar support, plus automatic tracking to point them. Dividing our squadron will not affect that. We very much want to loot that ship before they can recover it, and splitting off 3 ships to support that is very supportable.

    @Simon_Jester, I hope this satisfactorily addresses your concerns. I've quoted them below for ease of reference.
    And yes, but all means, let the press and foreigners see us. We need to break Victoria's aura of invincibility, and the more mouths spreading that story the better. This will likely be our first and for a while only way for countries outside the old US to hear about us at all.

    Simon_Jester said:
    My big concerns with your plan:
    1) The 1st Division may struggle to deal with the CMC amphibious armor even with the advantage of trying to hold a river crossing. Among other things, the fact that it's being held in reserve makes it likely that the CMC will have already secured a beachhead with its BTRs before they arrive, unless the frontline troops do an unusually good job holding the line of the river. If several dozen amphibious AFVs are already on our side of the river, we've got a threat that's going to be hard to contain.

    2) Your vote is to let a large fraction of the entire Victorian army cross the bridge before blowing it up, but it sounds like your actual pan was to blow up the bridge while the Viks have at most reached it and started crossing. If we followed your plan as it's written, we'd be resolving to let the Viks force a whole division or two across the bridge and only THEN start trying to cut it.

    3) Dividing our gunboat fleet makes them more vulnerable to air attack. The fleet as a whole, and the army as a whole, both have enough aggregate air defense that I can be pretty confident of them handling a twenty-plane attack with some measure of grace. A three-ship detachment, not so much.
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