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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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veekie said:
"Bigger targets, impossible to hit!"
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Well, being honest, the ide of the tactic sounds (at least in rational land) is less about one big target and more masking the radar return... sounds a lot like the IAF did when bombing a certain iraqi target, but again, they were trying to look like a civilian liner, iirc, not something they'd do in combat so that a single missile could score multi kills (specially given how the warheads of those missiles work!)

Sometimes I fear that is the sorta thing that might kill this quest, you are facing some ideas too stupid to put into words and that would blow up in their faces in the real world. like spectacularly
 
[X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"

Why take dumb risks? Force concentration sounds good.
 
[X] Plan Yummy Loot
-[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
-[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
-[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
-[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
-[X] Allow them both to observe.

[X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
-[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
-[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
-[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
-[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
-[X] Allow them both to observe.
 
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Canon Omake: Dispatches From Detroit-7b
  • Sidestory
    • Dispatches from Detroit- 7b
    Spy

    You know, there's been talk of spies, and of smart Victorians (something I admit to being highly skeptical of), but it has made me think. I think I knew a guy who might have been one, a spy at least, maybe not a smart Victoria.. Haven't seen him in years. But the more I think about it...

    It goes back to Watersides. There was one guy there, a Mr. Brown. His dress wasn't as fancy as a diplomats, but was well made. If I had thought about it at the time Merchant would have been my best guess. I just remember the first time I saw him. It was one of the days we had Victorians there, so I kept myself to the back counter, away from them. Mr Brown was there as well. He was watching the Victorian, frowning as he did so.

    I said it was best not to look at them too, sure he wasn't black, but they were a might touchy. He seemed surprised that I talked to him, but nodded. He asked me if they came here often. I said yes, and he gave a questioning look to the staff, clearly noting their skin color. I said that was the point, no respectability. He nodded. He ordered his food, and didn't talk much, some ideal conversation about the city.

    I'd usually see him when the Victorians were in, sometimes not, but usually, and he would always sit far away, but I saw him sneaking glances at them. At the time I figured he was a trader from West, no used to seeing them in the flesh. We ended up talking a decent amount. Learned a lot of my trade from him, the way he could get me, or other people there, to talk to him about all sorts of things, just be listening and helping with their story.

    Funny thing is, while I remember him as a trader, I can't actually ever remember if he said where he was from. I have memories of him describing other cities and ports, but not really anything about what he did there. More I think about it, more I feel that even times when I asked him about things, he'd usually start with a small story, then got me or someone else to talk about something else.

    If he was a spy, still don't know who for. Maybe he was Illinois, I hear they had a that sort of thing, went over to the Commonwealth once it was up. Maybe he was one of the River Communities, keeping one eye on the gateway to the Erie. Maybe he was even Victorian, I know they like to spy on their own. Would make sense, they do like their leverage over people, and knowing all they did when they aren't watched would be exactly up their alley.

    Still I hope he wasn't. I might be able to deal with learning from a spy, but I talked with him, and I want to think my dumb teenage self wasn't spilling everything to Victoria. I'd think he wasn't, cause what Victorian would talk with me, but can I be sure he wasn't just hiding it? Can Victorian's hide their disgust?

    Sorry this is a bit more focused on me, and a might lacking on Detroit, but it's on my mind right now.
     
  • Sidestory
    • Canon Omake: Hidden Dispatches From Detroit-7b
  • Sidestory
    • Important note at the bottom-

    ----------------
    Hidden Dispatches from Detroit- 7a
    The West

    Well, there is a lot to talk about. So once again, just the facts, starting with mine. Rain is clearing up, maybe the sky has stopped crying, or the sun just wants to look down itself. I know I had to see it myself. The dead Victorians. Rows of em, mountains of em, well hills of em at least. Lying everywhere and rotting in the fields. I managed to get a ride to some of the trenches, military isn't being nearly as picky about keeping people away these days. Lot of bodies, hard to being to think about so many, all at once, it just seemed… unreal.

    Lot of thoughts there, but for now, let us finish the facts. The militia was out for this battle, so I actually have several people I know who were there. Also, no none of em were my nephew, my brother would kill me if I go him in trouble. But I got my contacts there. At the start the battle wasn't much, they traded shots, but it was more about moving everyone in under fire. Then the Devils moved in.

    Remember way back, when I asked if Victoria was more like ours or more like the Devils. Turns out they were more like ours, the devils overran em so fast they just let our guys pour in and sort em out. Guys on the ground say that they must have killed at least 5 Victorians each, though from my contacts higher up, I think there might be some miscounting going on there. Either way, eastern force is smashed, and only remains and runners left. Even heard rumors that a general got captured, what I wouldn't give for that interview.

    If anything, the assessment from the City Hall contacts is more pessimistic. They say that it was only cause the Victorian were half-out of supplies already and beaten that it went so well. That the Devils won't be able to pull that so easily southward. That the southern army has the CMC, and that they are the actual elite. Intellectually I appreciate all that, but emotionally.

    Emotionally, I've lived so long with the Victoria shadow, I think we all have. That they are invincible, unstoppable, and here, now, they were stopped, stopped and routed. Once you achieve the impossible once, well saying "oh no these guys are even more impossible" just doesn't have the same ring. Granted, seeing the Devils mean I got a better appreciation for the levels of difference forces can have, so part of me can worry.

    The die is cast now. Before, Victoria would have burned, raped, pillage and sold most of us into slavery. But Detroit might have lived. A functional port is always useful at the lake border, so they might have allowed some ragged survivors. Now, however, now they must destroy us. We are where they hurt, and they must show that doing that is a death sentence, if they win, there won't be a Detroit left. Might even go salting any fields we have.

    But at the same time, I'm happy. No matter what else happens here, they bled, they bled worse than they ever did before. If it bleeds, we can kill it, heard someone say that once, and now we know Victoria bleeds. They might be able to try to erase their loss through our obliterations, but they can't escape the message of hurt. No matter what else, we hurt em.

    Now we see if we live through it, or if someone else is going to be killing them.

    ---

    So this catches us up to the current point, where reporters may be on the battlefield. Granted, given his inability to run, and reliance on good relations with the city council to get his stories, our plucky dispatcher isn't going to go down himself unless they want him down there and are willing to spare the transport.

    So given people have been talking about it, I leave it all to you.

    If he is made a war correspondent and sees the next battle directly, give this a :Funny Rating,
    If he is not and reports as he always has, through his best contacts, give this a :Informative rating.

    If you do not have a preference, rate any other rating.
     
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  • Sidestory
    • Simon_Jester said:
    ...Please explain why you think that the artillery allotment of a 20th century American infantry division is a reliable guideline to how much artillery one of our divisions has.

    Equipment for making artillery tubes that won't blow up or be intolerably inaccurate is likely rare in Chicagolander territory. Equipment for making heavy ammunition for artillery, in the tons-and-tons quantity that artillery batteries go through in intense operations, likewise. There is no guarantee that we have as many heavy guns in one of our divisions as the old US Army would, even in one of their "light" infantry divisions. We might, but then, we might not.

    In fairness, I can't find the source I thought I had for the number of guns our divisions have; it MIGHT be significantly more than "sixteen or so," which is the number of tubes our gunboats seem to actually mount.
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    I quote:
    LHB said:
    To clarify things on our end when the descriptions we have says our infantry units have light artillery support does that mean they have actual howitzers, heavy mortars and the other stuff that actually reduces soldiers to a fine, red mist and can do double-duty as a long distance earth mover in a pinch?
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    PoptartProdigy said:
    I'd say up to 155mm, enough for maybe an artillery company per division.
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    That reads to me that we only have about a company of 155mm medium artillery per division, when we should have a battalion.(
    An artillery company is roughly 6 guns each.) But that we do have light artillery like the 105 in abundance.

    I mean, the first M101 105mm howitzer prototype was built around 1930.
    It's not jet engines; all you need is a smith's foundry capable of casting steel, and a machine shop with boring tools.

    We're not the Vics either. We don't disdain artillery.
    If we couldn't build rifled light artillery like the 105 we would be building towed heavy mortars and massing them like howitzers.
    Like the 120mm and 160mm towed mortars. Roughly half the range of a 105mm, but heavier throw weight than a 155mm.
    160mm mortar Indian Army Kargil War said:
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    Also shittons of either Grads or Katyushas.

    Just....remember we are fielding Quality 1 troops. Even the artillerymen.
    None of them have seen serious combat brfore this campaign.
    Their performance is unlikely to match even seasoned WW2 troops.

    EDIT
    Things I learned today
    -According to Wiki, a 120mm mortar has roughly the same explosive throw weight as a 155mm howitzer. Just shorter range.
    -The Rock Island Arsenal, Rock Island County, Illnois, was(is)a major US Army weapon production site. Since before WW2. Builds a ton of stuff.
    -The US and Canada use 105mm howitzers for avalanche control
     
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    Inserted tally
    Adhoc vote count started by buli-buli on Jul 19, 2019 at 3:03 PM, finished with 121 posts and 52 votes.
    • [X] Plan Yummy Loot
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
      -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [X] Monroe tanks, Monroe problems
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
      -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
      -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [X] Plan "Show the world that Americans can defeat Victoria"
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
      -[X] The Navy will remain, and continue to provide artillery cover over Monroe. You could use it to slow down the Vicks.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [X] Plan Shoot, Loot, & Scoot
      -[X] Hold the 1st Division as a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] No. The decisive moment has not come, and the 1st Division remains your most fearsome assets even without their usual gear.
      -[X] You will leave the bridge standing until blowing it presents the opportunity to split the Victorian force in half. The Victorians will almost certainly find and defuse the charges; leaving the Navy on call to bombard the bridge is highly recommended if you intend to use this tactic.
      -[X] The Navy will divide and conquer. The fleet's marine contingent, escorted by three gunboats, will take the stranded freighter. The other eight ships keep guns and pressure on the advancing Victorians.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [x] Plan Hold the Course
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Wait to blow the bridge until Victorians are in sight of it.
      -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [X] Plan Yummy Loot
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
      -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [X] Plan Random
      -[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
      -[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
      -[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
      -[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
      -[X] Allow them both to observe.
      [x] Allow them both to observe.
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    Simon_Jester said:
    I mean, we should definitely inflict as much harm on the Victorians as is feasible. You'll get no argument from me there.

    But while this is a good killzone to draw the Victorians into, maybe even our best one, it isn't our only one. It's quite possible for a killzone to outlive its usefulness, and that's okay if you've got another one. Forcing the enemy to extend his forces, deploy his best assets and expose them to attrition, stretch out his supply lines, and reveal his habits and methods are all valuable in their own right.

    With Old World Equipment as our ace in the hole, I'm reasonably confident we can break or at least fend off any Victorian attack long enough for the bulk of our forces to fall back to the Huron Line, after inflicting heavy losses on the Victorians- and that is good enough. We don't need to hold them here, and we won't have failed if we have to fall back.

    Therefore, it isn't entirely critical for us to put absolutely everything we've got on the line at the Raisin River. If there's a secondary objective important enough to justify diverting a small portion of our forces, we can afford to at least consider taking that secondary objective.
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    If the Raisin river falls, it's no skin off our back. However, I still believe we should bring the boats because they're worth two points in our favor, which is significant.
    I'm going to try to not embarrass myself estimating their modifiers.

    Victorian Modifiers:
    Numbers: 4 points. (They have much more than the Leamington landing, but at least the ratio's better.)
    Troop quality: 2 points. (They possess only one division of the CMC)
    Fanaticism: 1 point.
    Supply status: -2 point. (The navy stopped them from getting any water, the vehicles carrying supplies might have been totaled, and other factors that only now come into play).
    Let's fit our entire advance onto a pre-sighted bridge! :-2

    Total:3 points

    Commonwealth Modifiers:
    Pre-sighted: 1 point.
    Artillery advantage: 1 point.
    Troop quality: 1 point.
    Fortifications: 1 point.

    Total:4 points

    Nevermind then, it might be possible to hold them here. At least we'll be able to retreat in good fashion.
     
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    uju32 said:
    I quote:


    That reads to me that we only have about a company of 155mm medium artillery per division, when we should have a battalion.(
    An artillery company is roughly 6 guns each.) But that we do have light artillery like the 105 in abundance.
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    ...That is NOT what Poptart said back there.

    " I'd say up to 155mm, enough for maybe an artillery company per division. "

    There are a lot of reasonable ways to interpret that sentence, but most of them are something like "there is a company of artillery, and the guns are up to 155mm in caliber," not "there is exactly one company of 155mm guns, and then a vast plethora of smaller stuff." I'm not saying that's not true, but it's not a reasonable interpretation of the exact words.

    I mean, the first M101 105mm howitzer prototype was built around 1930.
    It's not jet engines; all you need is a smith's foundry capable of casting steel, and a machine shop with boring tools.

    We're not the Vics either. We don't disdain artillery.
    If we couldn't build rifled light artillery like the 105 we would be building towed heavy mortars and massing them like howitzers.
    Like the 120mm and 160mm towed mortars. Roughly half the range of a 105mm, but heavier throw weight than a 155mm.
    Also shittons of either Grads or Katyushas.
    Click to expand...
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    We see here two types of reasoning that you've been indulging in a lot lately.

    1) How hard can it be?

    This is based on the idea that it "only" takes certain very simple tools to accomplish whatever it is you think we should do. Or that large legacy industrial facilities from the old United States mean we can already do this. Neither of these lines of reasoning work very well in context. Canonically our industrial capacity IS greatly diminished, and for decades the Russians and Victorians deliberately sabotaged and looted many key facilities, specifically to prevent us from being able to produce things that might make us a threat. This is not to say we can't do anything! But what we can do is likely to have limits. You cannot simply assume that we are liberally supplied with just any old thing.

    2) Surely we must have...

    This is related, but boils down to the reasoning "I can imagine us doing this very specific One Neat Trick that I'm sure will help, therefore it must have already been done!" The fallacy here is obvious. Doing anything has opportunity costs and associated risks. A lot of cunning gimmicks that we can imagine succeeding, are also gimmicks that can fail, backfire, or just waste a lot of time. A lot of things we could conceivably have equipped our army with, in the rush to forge the various militias of the Commonwealth into a vaguely uniform state while simultaneously solving a huge food security crisis, hunting down an assassin, and doing so many other things, have probably been forgotten. Or neglected. Or done but not on the required scale (say, one or two brigades have rocket artillery trucks and the others don't).

    ...

    If we're going to make intelligent plans that have any hope of being implemented, we need to focus on hard facts. In particular, the facts of what we've seen being done, within the limits we've observed. We cannot proceed from assumptions like "Commonwealth divisions have as much artillery as a WWII infantry division" or "yeah, we totally have the capacity to manufacture plenty of artillery tubes and ammunition for same."
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    In particular, three gunboats may not be able to carry the Marine contingents of eleven gunboats.
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    They aren't going to for the assault. That will be local shipping. And would it even be an option if we couldn't move them there in the first place?
    Simon_Jester said:
    Artillery isn't actually that great against armored vehicles because they're mobile and don't have to stay still when under bombardment, while requiring direct hits to disable.
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    BTRs' armor is only rated to stop rifle fire. Artillery anti-personnel rounds will disable and likely penetrate. And yes, you can direct hit with even blind arty fire. My battalion lost a Bradley in 2005 to blind, lucky 120mm mortar fire. Direct hit right on it.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    ...That is NOT what Poptart said back there.
    " I'd say up to 155mm, enough for maybe an artillery company per division. "

    There are a lot of reasonable ways to interpret that sentence, but most of them are something like "there is a company of artillery, and the guns are up to 155mm in caliber," not "there is exactly one company of 155mm guns, and then a vast plethora of smaller stuff." I'm not saying that's not true, but it's not a reasonable interpretation of the exact words.
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    @PoptartProdigy
    Can you please weigh in here?
    I understand you were not a military buff in your youth, so if you'd like to keep it vague or just not comment, say the word.

    Simon_Jester said:
    We see here two types of reasoning that you've been indulging in a lot lately.
    [.......]
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    - As demonstrated by the fact that we can build steam engines and rails and maintain both air and surface search radar, that Chicago has functioning power plants and a propeller airforce before the Commonwealth was formed, and that there were actual surviving pre-Collapse F16s in Commonwealth hands?

    There is and has always been limits on what an army of one hundred and eighty thousand men, and a foreign power working via proxies and covert agents can hope to achieve in most of a continent that was once First World level against a noncooperating population. Especially in the face of actual dangerous stuff they'd like to secure, like nuclear weapons.

    There is a lot of dualpurpose gear in any society that knows metalworking.
    We see this in every Third World civil war, most recently in Syria. We see it here, where the threat environment for the Chicago Navy before this war included armored pirate vessels.

    After all, even fellow travellers like mercs and neonazis do not actually subscribe to Victoria's neo-agrarian philosophy, or want a nonindustrial America where they can't supply for shit.

    In our case?
    The existence of the Rock Island Arsenal and it's 6,000 civilian workers means that there was a native skillbase to draw on in the Illnois area to kickstart a local arms industry, even assuming the actual site itself was demilitarized by Victorian "aid workers".

    -Artillery accounts for anywhere from half to two thirds of the casualties on a battlefield. US figures, calculated in WW2.
    It was worse during WW1 trench warfare.

    Our ex-president and current defense minister was an officer of the old US Army, and a survivor of Russian air bombardment.
    The fear of indirect fire is the sort of thing he'd know in his bones. It is not credible that he'd go to the trouble of raising three infantry divisions, equipping them for a defensive war and not lavishly supply them with tube or rocket artillery.

    And before him, the Illnois Guard descended from the same military tradition.
    As demonstrated by the General who commanded and built up the Air Force, they were competent. They would have invested in artillery and the means to build more. If not rifled tube artillery, rocket artillery a la Katyushas and heavy mortars.

    And it's not like the Victorians would care; their doctrine explicitly holds artillery in contempt.

    -Our capabilities are increasingly well explicated.

    We were able to covertly maintain most of an F16 squadron in working order, and put other old jet aircraft into service. To build and maintain a prop aircraft force openly without controversy before the Commonwealth was even formed.
    To build the power plants for 11 gunboats, and maintain the power stations supplying Chicago.

    We have either newly produced or longhidden SAMs and AA guns, both MANPADs and larger, in service.
    We equipped three infantry divisions, a local militia and an allied one in a little under three years.

    Nothing I have mentioned is beyond our described capabilities, or outside the capability of a WW1/WW2 techbase, or an economy that is supporting an expeditionary force of over forty five thousand men almost four hundred km to fight a war against over a hundred thousand men. Besides GM fiat, of course.

    Just looking at the Wiki article about the Taiyuan Arsenal, which went from literally looted by the Japanese to full war footing in three years:
    Recovered by Yan Xishan after August 1945 the Arsenal had been looted by the Japanese. He tried every effort to rebuild its productive capacity, taking machinery from factories of Japanese and puppet sympathizers, as long as they were the special purpose machines which the munitions industry needed and rebuilt his steel industry.

    By late 1948 during the Chinese Civil War, the monthly production of the Arsenal was 3,000 Mauser Type 24 rifles, 300 7.92 mm ZB 26 light machine guns, 60 7.92 mm Type 24 Maxim water-cooled machine guns (MG08/30), 8 75 mm field guns, and 60,000 grenades, 15,000 mortar rounds, 7,000 rounds of artillery shells, swords, bayonets and small arms ammunition. But near the end small arms 7.92 mm ammunition production was down. Over 150,000 Red Army soldiers surrounded the city and it was necessary to air drop ingots of brass for the production of ammunition casings. Early in 1949 two Curtiss C-46 transports from Civil Air Transport flown by American pilots landed on an improvised runway delivering dynamite and blasting caps to destroy the steel mills and arsenal. However, when the city fell in the spring the arsenal fell to Communist hands in good shape, providing a solid base for their armaments industry.
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    Taiyuan Arsenal - Wikipedia

    en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
    And the post-WW2 Chinese were in a much worse state than we are.

    EDIT
    Yes, in a year they could build 96x 75mm field guns.
    Almost enough light artillery for two divisions.
     
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    buli-buli said:
    Okay. I've written the first of three omake ideas.
    The next two will be a response to the end of the war from a Victorian perspective and an encyclopedia entry on the Victorian state religion.

    As for this short, I wrote it out in one go, and I am not happy with it. I just know I didn't manage to keep my character voice consistent. But, if I don't post it, I never will. So, please offer whatever criticism you want and I will make edits.

    Dear Gregory,

    Hello. How are you? I hope you are doing well.

    Everybody was so shocked when we heard the Commonwealth had declared war. No one truly believed it would ever happen. Father Michael says this is a small way of God punishing us for becoming lax in our duties. He says that instead of going out and ensuring people have been keeping to his law, we have been spending too long sitting at home and treating His holy army as nothing more than a mundane job.

    I hope he is wrong about the punishment part. I wouldn't want you to get hurt just because the adults got lazy.

    We are all fine here. In fact, aside from how everyone crowds around the radios each evening to hear the news, you could believe there was not a war at all. Though, you could hardly not forgive that given how little news there has been anyway. The biggest scare was what Jeffrey heard, saying there had been a surprise attack on Buffalo. Just like what the Japs did in the school books!

    Father Michael heard about the rumors of course and Jeffrey got his radio taken away. All the adults say Jeffrey was lucky he didn't get a caning cause he was going around spreading fake news and making a ruckus. Then, Jimmy's family got back from visiting family in Niagara Falls and they all said the rumors were true!
    Then even the adults started getting upset! Father Michael had to send for a Marine Chaplain to come explain everything just to calm everyone down. And he showed up within the day!

    There was a big town hall meeting. Everybody had to come. Even the really little kids that do not know how to be still and quiet. And he got up and explained how, yes, the Commonwealthers had attacked the port at Buffalo. But, not only did they attack long before anybody was on any of the boats, they completely failed to even touch any of the ships meant to carry the army to Michigan. Then they ran away.
    Everyone was still pretty tightly wound, but now everyone knew the attack had completely failed. Big Billy, whose learning how to fly his father's crop-duster, even says there's no way those boats could outrun the air force too. He says they couldn't outrun his old prop plane much less a jet. So, all those Marxist boats ought to be at the bottom of the Lake by now.

    Everything got quiet again after that. Though Chaplain Meyer still visits regularly to make sure we all know the real news. Most recently he told Mom and Dad that you were part of the group that liberated a bunch of suburbs East of Detroit. I know you are doing well now, but I hope the war ends soon. And I know all those people must be very grateful you have gone and saved them, but please do not do anything foolish. Mom and Dad think I don't know, but only the littlest, or the dumbest, kids haven't heard about the kinds of parties they have outside Victoria.

    Dad says the post office is probably holding all the letters until the war ends so idiots like Jeffrey don't go accidentally spilling secrets to any bad guys with their own radios. But, Chaplain Meyer says he'll personally make sure my letter gets to you after he leaves tomorrow.

    Please come home soon.

    Love,

    David
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    huhYeahGoodPoint said:
    War Diary 473

    War Article Form R

    Name of Security Officer: Sabah El-Ghawazzy

    -o-
    ​
    Three pages are ripped out of the beginning of the leatherbound notebook. The quality of the leather and especially the quality of the paper marks this as a formerly-well-preserved pre-Collapse relic. The ink lines have a precision to them that implies a ballpoint pen, and the consistency of the ink fingers the pen as a particularly good one.

    -o-
    ​
    Date: March 2075

    Article: Frontline Diary

    -o-
    ​
    Day 1

    This is Staff Sargeant Billie Cyrus of the 3rd "Liberator" Division, "Liberty" Brigade, Squad 473. I'm writing this because I want to keep a record on these idiots, just in case we all die and nobody makes it back. There's no getting around it. I'm expecting to get this stuff all censored like those Roles would have you believe, but I'll say it anyway because someone has to. We're going up against the Victorians, and no one else has survived fighting them. God willing, we'll be the first.

    Our merry band's got me, their Staff Sargeant, running herd on a couple old fogeys too damn stubborn to die and a bunch of young bucks too damn dumb to successfully kill themselves. I figure that either gives me great odds, or the worst ones possible. The way those Roles go, just about the best way to ensure that I don't make it back is to have a family waiting for me after I retire. Good thing I'm dodging both, at least until the war is over.

    Our squad's supposedly set up to try a new standard, since we're new and fresh with "talent": two fireteams of four people each, each man a rifle, and the command fireteam with me and two other poor bastards who're supposed to be picking my nose. Command fireteam's ABLE, second one's BRAVO, third one's CHARLIE, in theory. In practice, didn't work out.

    With me on the ABLE fireteam is our field medic Sasha Nguyen. Used to get shit for being half-Russian with a girly name, but God Almighty can that man run. He's built like a motherfucking Devil Brigade tank and moves like one too; swear on my life he could just pick one of us up, and still be the fastest sprinter and marathoner we have. Kid's quick on his feet and quick with his hands; field medic was a no brainer. If only he could manage to not run his mouth even faster, he'd be perfect. As is, I have to make sure he doesn't leave his damn tent most days.

    Also with me is our sharpshooter and general gofer Wilma Cox. She's earned being one of the old hags, despite being nearly the youngest soldier here; she's a stickler for getting things right, constantly nags us about what we should be doing, and honestly her old-lady glasses aren't helping. We're still not sure how she got the highest marksmanship score in the squad with the scoped rifle, but it happened, so she gets the scope.

    BRAVO's got the chucklefucks. We'll start with Richard "Dick" Perry. Motherfucker's not a bad shot, but he keeps on making everything about the size of his ego and how many Vics he's gonna kill and how many inches he is. Swear to God we all celebrated when Jessie knifehanded him into the ground.

    Max Espina, by contrast, is nice, respectful, and makes about as many decisions as a rock does. Everything he does is done the same exact way, and he just shuts down when there isn't someone to give him orders. Still, good kid. I hope he gets through this war, but I'm not holding out too much hope.

    His friend Tomas Pinto is almost the opposite - shoots the shit, flips me the bird, and gets the fuck away with it because goddamn can he lead a Role; if it came down to me or him in the squad I'd be booted out in a second and I'd get it. Unfortunately, his aim's a goddamn joke, so he's got the grenades.

    To round these guys out so they don't all kill themselves, I put our chaplain Drexel Hopkins as the leader of their fireteam, also coincidentally getting him away from James. I forgot that Max is in the squad, though, so now Father Hopkins just tells Max to get him some booze, Max gets him the booze, and then we all have to deal with Father Hopkins trying to drunkenly convert us all night. Hell, if we fight the Victorians and he's all liquored up, he might genuinely try to convert the Vicks instead of shooting them.

    CHARLIE's got everyone else. First up on our list is our dealer, James Bradley. Man deals in so much contraband I could probably put him in jail for the rest of his life, but he's got impossible amounts of the good shit and no way in hell am I going to let a guy like that go. Putting him in a fireteam with Drexel would've been a no-go, but I'm honestly not sure this is any better.

    Then there's Jessie. Everything about her is short: her height, her hair, and especially her temper. Hell, even her gun is a short-barreled shotgun, and I'm fairly sure she's got a file so that she can shorten her fuses on her grenades.

    The third sap is Nick Forest. He flips between having the biggest brain on the continent and being just so unbelievably dumb it's a wonder how he survived to be seventeen - for God's sake, the first thing he did when he grabbed his service rifle was stare down the barrel, without even checking and clearing the damn thing! He's a good kid though. Really hope he makes it.

    The last of these poor bastards is Shane Przybylski, squad leader. He's been pushing sixty, and even tells us that he remembers the world before the Collapse. He also has the most surviving relatives, so if anybody could tell our families in the worst case, his family probably could.

    God, I'm hoping against hope that we all make it through.

    My gut's telling me we won't.

    -o-​

    Intended Recipient: "Uncle Bill", full name "She-bil-ski" - probably Przybylski.

    Address: Jefferson Park Projects, Chicago, Commonwealth of Free Cities.

    -o-​

    Day 36

    We heard that the Victorians hit the east coast first, over by the "Freedom" Brigade in our Division. God, I'm ashamed to admit it, but I nearly cried when I found out that we weren't going to be hit first.

    Then I nearly threw up.

    It's real. The Victorians really are going to come after us. There's nowhere to run any more.

    -o-
    ​
    Day 40

    Tensions are running high. The radio's been broadcasting nonstop that every Commonwealth soldier that falls is taking down five Victorians with them, but we noticed when the place moved from the Leamington beaches to the village of Essex. Rumor has it that the army all died on the beaches, and the radio's just lying to us; any day now, the Victorian Army will finish looting Detroit and crush us like a grape. Father Hopkins is nearly permanently drunk, and Jessie keeps sharpening knives to hide in her leather jacket. Sasha snapped at Nick when Nick fumbled a cartridge and dropped his gun; I had to tell him to cool it, but half the squad nearly drew weapons right there and then. James mellowed out, but that's probably because he's smoking his own weed.

    The sticky air and the roiling thunderclouds aren't making things better; they feel like it's God's way of warning us, telling us to run.

    But I can't run. If I did, nobody would help Shane run, not with his bad back. I can't leave him behind.

    Right?

    -o-
    ​
    Day 48

    We didn't want to believe the rumors, but the radioman's telling us that our boys are giving their lives bravely on the outskirts of Windsor. If even the radio's saying they're almost at Detroit, what does that mean the real thing must be?

    What does that mean for us poor bastards, huddled up under our tents as God himself drops a lake on us, day in and day out?

    -o-​

    Day 50

    It's here. The Victorians are coming.

    We're given marching orders: Kill the scouts, and harass them.

    The rain hasn't stopped. God must be furious with us for staying here.

    Maybe He'll think better of us if we survive this mess.

    -o-
    ​
    Day 51

    We met the Victorians today in the pouring rain and with mud sloshing into our boots. James saw 'em first and called it in.

    The Victorians moved forward, surging through the bushes and holding their guns like they knew exactly how to use it. None of them had their hands shaking like ours did, and it felt like every last one of them was ten feet tall. They stomped their way through the mud as though it didn't affect them at all.

    Then someone fired a gun, their squad leader went down, and suddenly all I could see was the smoke from my own gun and the roar of automatic fire.

    All four of them went down, and none of ours were hurt.

    I'm filled with a strange feeling. I think our whole squad is.

    Today, we saw the Victorians bleed and die. We killed them with our own two hands.

    We can beat the Victorians.

    God Almighty, I'm praying that this keeps up.

    -o-
    ​
    On Day 52, a different author writes the entry. Staff Sargeant Billie Cyrus' fate is yet unknown.
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    clockworkchaos said:
    Dispatches from Detroit- 7b
    Spy

    You know, there's been talk of spies, and of smart Victorians (something I admit to being highly skeptical of), but it has made me think. I think I knew a guy who might have been one, a spy at least, maybe not a smart Victoria.. Haven't seen him in years. But the more I think about it...

    It goes back to Watersides. There was one guy there, a Mr. Brown. His dress wasn't as fancy as a diplomats, but was well made. If I had thought about it at the time Merchant would have been my best guess. I just remember the first time I saw him. It was one of the days we had Victorians there, so I kept myself to the back counter, away from them. Mr Brown was there as well. He was watching the Victorian, frowning as he did so.

    I said it was best not to look at them too, sure he wasn't black, but they were a might touchy. He seemed surprised that I talked to him, but nodded. He asked me if they came here often. I said yes, and he gave a questioning look to the staff, clearly noting their skin color. I said that was the point, no respectability. He nodded. He ordered his food, and didn't talk much, some ideal conversation about the city.

    I'd usually see him when the Victorians were in, sometimes not, but usually, and he would always sit far away, but I saw him sneaking glances at them. At the time I figured he was a trader from West, no used to seeing them in the flesh. We ended up talking a decent amount. Learned a lot of my trade from him, the way he could get me, or other people there, to talk to him about all sorts of things, just be listening and helping with their story.

    Funny thing is, while I remember him as a trader, I can't actually ever remember if he said where he was from. I have memories of him describing other cities and ports, but not really anything about what he did there. More I think about it, more I feel that even times when I asked him about things, he'd usually start with a small story, then got me or someone else to talk about something else.

    If he was a spy, still don't know who for. Maybe he was Illinois, I hear they had a that sort of thing, went over to the Commonwealth once it was up. Maybe he was one of the River Communities, keeping one eye on the gateway to the Erie. Maybe he was even Victorian, I know they like to spy on their own. Would make sense, they do like their leverage over people, and knowing all they did when they aren't watched would be exactly up their alley.

    Still I hope he wasn't. I might be able to deal with learning from a spy, but I talked with him, and I want to think my dumb teenage self wasn't spilling everything to Victoria. I'd think he wasn't, cause what Victorian would talk with me, but can I be sure he wasn't just hiding it? Can Victorian's hide their disgust?

    Sorry this is a bit more focused on me, and a might lacking on Detroit, but it's on my mind right now.
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    clockworkchaos said:
    Important note at the bottom-

    ----------------
    Hidden Dispatches from Detroit- 7a
    The West

    Well, there is a lot to talk about. So once again, just the facts, starting with mine. Rain is clearing up, maybe the sky has stopped crying, or the sun just wants to look down itself. I know I had to see it myself. The dead Victorians. Rows of em, mountains of em, well hills of em at least. Lying everywhere and rotting in the fields. I managed to get a ride to some of the trenches, military isn't being nearly as picky about keeping people away these days. Lot of bodies, hard to being to think about so many, all at once, it just seemed… unreal.

    Lot of thoughts there, but for now, let us finish the facts. The militia was out for this battle, so I actually have several people I know who were there. Also, no none of em were my nephew, my brother would kill me if I go him in trouble. But I got my contacts there. At the start the battle wasn't much, they traded shots, but it was more about moving everyone in under fire. Then the Devils moved in.

    Remember way back, when I asked if Victoria was more like ours or more like the Devils. Turns out they were more like ours, the devils overran em so fast they just let our guys pour in and sort em out. Guys on the ground say that they must have killed at least 5 Victorians each, though from my contacts higher up, I think there might be some miscounting going on there. Either way, eastern force is smashed, and only remains and runners left. Even heard rumors that a general got captured, what I wouldn't give for that interview.

    If anything, the assessment from the City Hall contacts is more pessimistic. They say that it was only cause the Victorian were half-out of supplies already and beaten that it went so well. That the Devils won't be able to pull that so easily southward. That the southern army has the CMC, and that they are the actual elite. Intellectually I appreciate all that, but emotionally.

    Emotionally, I've lived so long with the Victoria shadow, I think we all have. That they are invincible, unstoppable, and here, now, they were stopped, stopped and routed. Once you achieve the impossible once, well saying "oh no these guys are even more impossible" just doesn't have the same ring. Granted, seeing the Devils mean I got a better appreciation for the levels of difference forces can have, so part of me can worry.

    The die is cast now. Before, Victoria would have burned, raped, pillage and sold most of us into slavery. But Detroit might have lived. A functional port is always useful at the lake border, so they might have allowed some ragged survivors. Now, however, now they must destroy us. We are where they hurt, and they must show that doing that is a death sentence, if they win, there won't be a Detroit left. Might even go salting any fields we have.

    But at the same time, I'm happy. No matter what else happens here, they bled, they bled worse than they ever did before. If it bleeds, we can kill it, heard someone say that once, and now we know Victoria bleeds. They might be able to try to erase their loss through our obliterations, but they can't escape the message of hurt. No matter what else, we hurt em.

    Now we see if we live through it, or if someone else is going to be killing them.

    ---

    So this catches us up to the current point, where reporters may be on the battlefield. Granted, given his inability to run, and reliance on good relations with the city council to get his stories, our plucky dispatcher isn't going to go down himself unless they want him down there and are willing to spare the transport.

    So given people have been talking about it, I leave it all to you.

    If he is made a war correspondent and sees the next battle directly, give this a :Funny Rating,
    If he is not and reports as he always has, through his best contacts, give this a :Informative rating.

    If you do not have a preference, rate any other rating.
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    ...y'all omaked up a storm. :D Canon to all. Also, @huhYeahGoodPoint, that's a really neat trick with the censored text. How'd you do that?
    uju32 said:
    @PoptartProdigy
    Can you please weigh in here?
    I understand you were not a military buff in your youth, so if you'd like to keep it vague or just not comment, say the word.
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    I conceive of your divisions as comprised primarily of infantry, with a single support company each of artillery, comprised of pieces up to 155mm in size. Your industrial production is truly limited; while you retain larger amounts of pre-Collapse guns currently in storage back home, you lack the industrial capacity to supply them with ammunition. What you have is what you can field.
     
    PoptartProdigy said:
    ...y'all omaked up a storm. :D Canon to all. Also, @huhYeahGoodPoint, that's a really neat trick with the censored text. How'd you do that?
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    Behold the dread power of inline spoilers, activated by [ ISPOILER ] and disabled with [/ ISPOILER ] minus the spaces so that I could actually inline spoiler all of this :V

    Also, do you have any idea where that nice big "would always stretch across the screen" line went? I dunno where it went, but I miss it q.q
     
    PoptartProdigy said:
    ...y'all omaked up a storm. :D Canon to all. Also, @huhYeahGoodPoint, that's a really neat trick with the censored text. How'd you do that?

    I conceive of your divisions as comprised primarily of infantry, with a single support company each of artillery, comprised of pieces up to 155mm in size. Your industrial production is truly limited; while you retain larger amounts of pre-Collapse guns currently in storage back home, you lack the industrial capacity to supply them with ammunition. What you have is what you can field.
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    Thank you.
    Logistics then, not guns.
     
    huhYeahGoodPoint said:
    Behold the dread power of inline spoilers, activated by [ ISPOILER ] and disabled with [/ ISPOILER ] minus the spaces so that I could actually inline spoiler all of this :V

    Also, do you have any idea where that nice big "would always stretch across the screen" line went? I dunno where it went, but I miss it q.q
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    Thanks! That might come in handy.

    Y'mean this?
    uju32 said:
    Thank you.
    Logistics then, not guns.
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    Alas, even Burns could only do so much.
     
    PoptartProdigy said:
    I conceive of your divisions as comprised primarily of infantry, with a single support company each of artillery, comprised of pieces up to 155mm in size. Your industrial production is truly limited; while you retain larger amounts of pre-Collapse guns currently in storage back home, you lack the industrial capacity to supply them with ammunition. What you have is what you can field.
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    For reference, an "artillery company" is also known as a "battery," classically imagined to include only four or six or maybe eight guns, tops. That's really really light for a whole infantry division's support firepower, enough so that it'd seem pretty weak when stacked up against the very large (if brief) mortar barrages a Victorian division could unleash as long as the supplies held up.

    Like, even knowing that we're poorly supplied in terms of ammunition for artillery, damn but a single digit number of cannons per ten thousand soldiers is worse than I'd thought. :(

    In fairness, I can totally imagine "ahah, and where are you getting the metals for the brass in those shells" being a problem.

    Strypgia said:
    They aren't going to for the assault. That will be local shipping. And would it even be an option if we couldn't move them there in the first place?
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    I can easily imagine a situation where we can technically do it but it's a terrible idea..

    BTRs' armor is only rated to stop rifle fire. Artillery anti-personnel rounds will disable and likely penetrate. And yes, you can direct hit with even blind arty fire. My battalion lost a Bradley in 2005 to blind, lucky 120mm mortar fire. Direct hit right on it.
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    My condolences- but notably, you didn't lose all the other Bradleys. The CMC may be bleeding vehicles from artillery fire, but I don't expect it to stop them, gunboats or no gunboats, without Old World Equipment (e.g. guided antitank missiles).

    "LOL tank rush" isn't as good a strategy in real life as it is in a video game, but if the enemy's heavy weapons and training are limited enough, and you have enough armor... well, it can in fact work.

    I'm not trying to argue "artillery is useless against tanks." What I'm trying to argue is that the amount of artillery we have, even with the gunboats, isn't going to stop a mechanized force as large as the Savior Division or the Waffen CMC unit. We're going to need actual purpose-built antitank weapons for that.
     
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