Voting is open
-Gore
I know you think I'm crazy, that this is only going to end with me dying. But I can't forget what they've done. If I'm going to die, it'll be from trying to make a difference…

Did you know I was there when they sacked UVM? I saw my friends, people I'd worked with, professors and faculty I'd known for years, shot dead. I saw them burn the libraries, the museum… we had two reliefs that had been taken from the palace of Ashurbanipal. They survived a journey of thousands of miles and 2500 years, and I saw them smashed to pieces by bastards that didn't even know what they were.

It's not any better these days, you can't deny that. We work all day growing food that goes off east, get paid pennies for it, and we can't even relax. They banned alcohol a decade ago, weed's been gone since they took over, there's not a single ski mountain left that's open to locals without charging as much as we make a year.

I know they took your brother last year, don't try to deny it. What even was it? "Un-patriotic activities"? "Caught planning sedition against the majority rule"? Did they figure out he was an Athiest? They're turning the place I grew up in and loved into a hell-hole, and I'm done letting them.

Look, I know what you think, but this isn't a suicide mission. Vermont's got even less people now than we did before everything went crazy, and we weren't exactly packed back then… there's a lot of space out there where they don't know where to look. I've got plans on how to use that.

Back before the old US got independence from the British, The Green Mountain Boys were born. They were formed to fight New York, but their best work ended up being against the Crown. Well, this time we know exactly who our enemy is. The Green Mountain Boys are coming back, and we're not going away until Victoria is history.
-Letter found by Victorian secret police, believed to be written by "Ethan Allen", mysterious leader of rebel group The Green Mountain Boys.




AN: Wanted to write something representing my neck of the woods. When even was Vermont taken? The time-line goes straight from "Annexes New Hampshire" to "Annexes Northern New York", and we fought a war to not be in either of those states.
Tragically, Vermont was one of the foundational states of the Northern Confederation.

If we dropped Green-Water Navy (which really seems overly expensive for only a mild payoff when the Victorians have no real navy)
Chicago was the start that made naval options more expensive. Brown- and Green-Water Navies would have been 1 and 3 CP, respectively, without that jacking them up. Had you taken the Miami start, Green-Water would have just been two, and you would have had an option for a Blue-Water Navy for 3 CP.

I have a great plan people.

[] I accidentallied all the US tanks and guns
-[] Old World Equipment x29
-[] All the disadvantages except Population Boom (we need food), Shattered Logistics, Incompetent Military, Russian Attention, and Outbreak.

This will work. I'm sure. Don't ask me how exactly, though. Something something march to Victoria.

EDIT:
Actually: @PoptartProdigy I need this up there as a gag option.
No gag plans. Funny, but no. ;)
@PoptartProdigy , it occurs to me that there are indeed something like 20 plans. This is so many, it may drown out the feasibility of approval voting, because very few people are going to actually vote for, say, ten different plans. You're likely to see a highly fragmented vote with many people voting for only one or two of the plans, and possibly few if any plans mustering support beyond the single digits.

If we want the advantages of real approval voting, we may need something like an elimination round, where first everybody approval-votes, then we have approval voting among the four or eight or so most popular surviving plans.
That is a problem, yes.
[] Hellfire Burns Vs. The World
-[] Disastrous Start (+1)
-[] Import Export Professionals (+1)
-[] Hostile Neighborhood (+1)
-[] Population Boom (+2)
-[] Disunited Currency (+3)
-[] Russian Attention (+3)
-[] Technological Conservatism (+3)
-[] Crossed Wires (+2)
-[] Foreign Sourced Equipment (-1)
-[] Old World Hardware (-1)
-[] Old World Training (-2)
-[] Brown-Water Navy (-2)
-[] Aerial Reconnaissance (-2)
-[] Established (-2)
-[] Independent Merchants (-2)
-[] Widespread Vaccinations (-3)
-[] Efficient Bureaucracy (-3)
-[] Rail Companies (-2)

[] Plan Protector of the Northwest
-[] Old World Training
-[] Foreign-Sourced Equipment
-[] Revivalist Connections
-[] Established
-[] Good Reputation
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Libraries
-[] Empty Spaces
-[] Population Boom
-[] Crossed Wires
-[] Compromised

[] Plan Protector of the Northwest: Minimum
-[] Old World Training
-[] Revivalist Connections
-[] Established
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Libraries
-[] Population Boom
-[] Crossed Wires

[] Plan Protector of the Northwest: Vaccines
-[] Old World Training
-[] Revivalist Connections
-[] Established
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Widespread Vaccinations
-[] Libraries
-[] Population Boom
-[] Crossed Wires
-[] The Greatest Sin

[] Plan Protector of the Northwest: Nuclear Diplomacy
-[] Old World Training
-[] Good Reputation
-[] Established
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Libraries
-[] Nuke
-[] Population Boom
-[] Crossed Wires
-[] Empty Spaces
-[] Russian Attention

[]Securing a better Tomorrow V2.B
-[]Libraries
-[]Universities
-[]Independant Merchants
-[]Widespread Vaccinations
-[]Brown Water Navy
-[]Foreign-Sourced Equipment
-[]Population Boom
-[]Hostile Neighborhood
-[]Disunited Currency
-[]Disastrous Start
-[]Compromised

@PoptartProdigy

@PoptartProdigy
[]Plan: All the economy
[]Brown Water Navy(2CP)
[]Disastrous Start(1CP)
[]The greatest Sin(3CP)
[]Independent Merchants(-2CP)
[]Rail Companies(-2CP)
[]Vaccines(-3CP)
[]Efficient Bureaucracy(-3CP)
[]Population boom(2CP)
[]Disunited Currency(3CP)
[]Import/Export(1CP)
[]Libraries(-2CP)@PoptartProdigy

[] Plan Stable Trade 2.0
-[] Brown Water Navy (-2)
-[] Good Security (-1)
-[] Independent Merchants (-2)
-[] Widespread Vaccinations (-3)
-[] Libraries (-2)
-[] Population Boom (2)
-[] Disastrous Start (1)
-[] Fringe Elements (3)

Anything that has Navy and Vaccines with minimal Econ. disadvantages has my vote though.

@PoptartProdigy
[] Plan Wide Start
-[] Brown Water Navy
-[] Established
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Widespread Vaccinations
-[] Ear To The Ground
-[] Libraries
-[] Population Boom
-[] The Greatest Sin
-[] Crossed Wires
-[] Import/Export Professionals

[] Plan Entrepot
-[] Brown Water Navy
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Ear To The Ground
-[] Libraries
-[] Population Boom
-[] Import/Export Professionals

[] Plan Bare Necessities
-[] Libraries
-[] Independent Merchants

@PoptartProdigy
[] Plan Navy, Economy And Intelligence
-[] Brown Water Navy
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Rail Companies
-[] Good Security
-[] Ear to the Ground
-[] Libraries
-[] Population Boom
-[] Disunited Currency
-[] Import/Export Professionals

[] Conservative Start
-[] Independent Merchants (-2 CP)
-[] Brown Water Navy (-2 CP)
-[] Good Security (-1 CP)
-[] Disastrous Start (+1 CP)

[] All-Round Start
-[] Independent Merchants (-2 CP)
-[] Established (-2 CP)
-[] Good Security (-1 CP)
-[] Libraries (-2 CP)
-[] Population Boom (+2 CP)
-[] Disastrous Start (+1 CP)

[] Plan Economy First

-[] Brown Water Navy (-2CP)
-[] Established (-2CP)
-[] Compromised (1CP)
-[] Independent Merchants (-2CP)
-[] Widespread Vaccinations (-3CP)
-[] The Greatest Sin (3CP)
-[] Population Boom (2CP)
-[] Hostile Neighborhood (1CP)
-[] Libraries (-2CP)

[] Plan Go Big or Go Home
-[] The Greatest Sin (3 CP)
-[] Disunited Currency (3 CP)
-[] Population Boom (2 CP)
-[] Nuke (-5 CP)
-[] Established (-2 CP)
-[] Independent Merchants (-2 CP)
-[] Widespread Vaccinations (-3 CP)

[] Plan Shadow of the Bomb
-[] Libraries
-[] Nuke
-[] Population Boom
-[] Disastrous Start

[] Plan Butter 3.0
-[] Brown Water Navy
-[] Independent Merchants
-[] Widespread Vaccinations
-[] Libraries
-[] Efficient Bureaucracy
-[] Rail Companies
-[] Established
-[] The Greatest Sin
-[] Victorian Sympathizers
-[] Disunited Currency
-[] Population Boom
-[] Crossed Wires

@PoptartProdigy
[] Plan: Manufacture and Tax
Gain 6 CP + 4 CP (Old Guard)
-[] Disastrous Start (1 CP)
-[] Disunited Currency (3 CP)
-[] Population Boom (2 CP)
Cost 10 CP
-[] Brown-Water Navy (-2 CP)
-[] Established (-2 CP)
-[] Efficient Bureaucracy (-3 CP)
-[] Libraries (-2 CP)
-[] Well-Preserved (-1 CP)

[] Plan: Just the Government
-[] Disastrous Start (1 CP)
-[] Established (-2 CP)
-[] Efficient Bureaucracy (-3 CP)

[] Plan Maluses Are Bad, Ok?
-[] Established (-2 CP)
-[] Good Security (-1 CP)
-[] Rail Companies (-2 CP)
-[] Libraries (-2 CP)
-[] Hostile Neighborhood (1 CP)
-[] Disastrous Start (1 CP)
-[] Import/Export Professionals (1 CP)
-[] Total 4 CP + 3 CP = 7 CP spent.

[] Plan Super Simple
-[] Established (-2 CP)
-[] Rail Companies (-2 CP)
-[] Libraries (-2 CP)
-[] Disastrous Start (1 CP)
-[] Import/Export Professionals (1 CP)
-[] Total 4 CP + 2 CP = 6 CP spent.

[ ] Plan Everyone Loves Riding the L
-[ ] Established
-[ ] Good Reputation
-[ ] Good Security
-[ ] Victorian Sympathizers
-[ ] Rail Companies
-[ ] Population Boom
-[ ] Libraries
We cannot handle all of you. I'm going to go through and start threshing out some of these. Nobody propose anymore plans. Thank you all for your contributions; I will start collating this down into something manageable.
 
Chicago was the start that made naval options more expensive. Brown- and Green-Water Navies would have been 1 and 3 CP, respectively, without that jacking them up. Had you taken the Miami start, Green-Water would have just been two, and you would have had an option for a Blue-Water Navy for 3 CP.

Now obviously it's not worth making a stink about previous vote choices, so I'll keep it short: nooooooooo! :V
 
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You get my meme vote EBR.

"That's not enough sir! I need a majority." :lol

Problem is it's lacking on butter. We already have enough gun from Burns. We should be buying butter with our CP not even more Gun.

Not that I can change it now, but how would you recommend increasing the butter? It includes every one of the positive economic customization options- reduce the negatives I assume?

This plan is absolutely insane! You have my vote sir.

Sanity is overrated.:coolbeans:

Morbidly curious with the Burn the world plan.

We will see how the actual voting goes.

Oh, it hasn't got a chance. Burns v. World winning the vote would be like a dog getting elected mayor, or someone with no political or military experience being voted President of the United States!

What, you couldn't budget for a nuke?

I tried, but not without either cutting out a bunch of economic stuff or compromising our security to an unacceptable degree.

Point: Having the Burns vs the World plan without the nuke leaves us vulnerable and even besides that leaves us subject to economic distress and other sources of collapse.

True, but most plans leave out the nuke also. And we'll at least have the tools to address the the economic problems.

Counterpoint:

Burns

THE

WORLD

*sick, electric guitar riff* :cool:

Assuming we survive, Technological Conservatism will make the game less fun.


You're right that it's a major weakness- I chose tech as the plan's dump stat- but I don't know that it will be less fun.

@PoptartProdigy , it occurs to me that there are indeed something like 20 plans. This is so many, it may drown out the feasibility of approval voting, because very few people are going to actually vote for, say, ten different plans. You're likely to see a highly fragmented vote with many people voting for only one or two of the plans, and possibly few if any plans mustering support beyond the single digits.

If we want the advantages of real approval voting, we may need something like an elimination round, where first everybody approval-votes, then we have approval voting among the four or eight or so most popular surviving plans.

I second this. We have way too many plans.

That technological conservatism is really going to cripple us in the long run though.

That is the biggest weakness of the plan, no lie. But it seemed to me that the only way to truly excel in one area was to have at least one other to use as a dump stat. Tech sucks, but Military is excellent, Economic will be excellent once we get past the initial crises, and Intelligence and Diplomacy are workable.
 
That is the biggest weakness of the plan, no lie. But it seemed to me that the only way to truly excel in one area was to have at least one other to use as a dump stat. Tech sucks, but Military is excellent, Economic will be excellent once we get past the initial crises, and Intelligence and Diplomacy are workable.
But with crippled tech, everything will suck long term. It won't matter if you have a comparatively good military and economy if you then hamstring yourself so you're stuck in the dark ages. Tech should never, ever, be a dump stat, because it's so critical for absolutely everything.
 
Yeah. Everyone will if we don't arm ourselves with 30 total Old World Equipment shipments when the Victorians come :V
 
Why not go for a nice econ heavy compromise plan like VoidZero's. We would have minimal downsides, a fully set up state for those that like rapid expansion. And all of the tools that are needed to deal with said downsides. Along with libraries, intact machinery for tech. And both rail and brown water for industrialization.
 
You see, Disunited Currency is literally as bad as Russian attention. I cannot accept any Economic-heavy start with that. If it were easy to deal with, it would not give us 3CP.
 
You see, Disunited Currency is literally as bad as Russian attention. I cannot accept any Economic-heavy start with that. If it were easy to deal with, it would not give us 3CP.
It's going to give some long term issues as we establish, and basicly lock out a lot of fancy defacit spending tricks. Assuming we go for a commodity currency. But, it can be dealt with, unlike the possibility of getting over run with spetznaz.
 
It's going to give some long term issues as we establish, and basicly lock out a lot of fancy defacit spending tricks. Assuming we go for a commodity currency. But, it can be dealt with, unlike the possibility of getting over run with spetznaz.

It will utterly paralyze our government minute one. With no currency and parts of our country using goddamn barter, we will have no way to rally economic resources in a concerted response to other crises. Crises compound, and this one seems like a horrible early-game one to add to stack on other crises.
 
It will utterly paralyze our government minute one. With no currency and parts of our country using goddamn barter, we will have no way to rally economic resources in a concerted response to other crises. Crises compound, and this one seems like a horrible early-game one to add to stack on other crises.

Presumably what you'd be dealing with is less barter, and more a system of exchange rates between the various currencies extent in our territory

Probably works somewhat like the old wildcat banking system
 
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When I said less barter, I didn't mean no barter at all

Given the number of economic disadvantages on that plan, I see virtually no economic advantage to our situation. We could have spent actions establishing independent merchants ourselves, actions we now spend on putting out the fire of disunited currency. We could have spent actions making a Old-World style bureaucracy that we now spend on addressing the dire, dire food issue when we have no currency.

That's not an economic-heavy start. That's a military, tech, and slight diplomacy start, since that's where we have distinct advantages, which is fine if it's advertised as such, even if I might not vote for it.
 
It's going to give some long term issues as we establish, and basicly lock out a lot of fancy defacit spending tricks. Assuming we go for a commodity currency. But, it can be dealt with, unlike the possibility of getting over run with spetznaz.
Having a dysfunctional currency and a barter economy is going to be like having one foot stuck in a bucket full of cement. Sure, you can break out of a bucket full of cement with a hammer and chisel. It's totally doable. No problem.

But trying to perform athletic activities, or fight, or even do basic things that anyone has to do all the time let alone in a crisis, is much harder while that is going on. We're going to be constantly hampered, probably short on budgets, definitely short on economic options. And that will limit what we can do to address our other problems, like a population boom or a Victorian invasion.

EDIT:

Like, seriously, please do not assume that all the +X CP options aren't at least roughly equally bad. It's possible that some of them are a bit worse or easier than the others to deal with, but they're all going to be nasty. About the only one of the +3s I'm willing to tolerate is The Greatest Sin, and that's mainly because I have faith in the general populace to provide ongoing and renewing leadership in the face of terror, plus the fact that it's an issue we can definitively put an end to relatively quickly with "yep, that assassin sure is dead now." Even so I fully expect it to hurt a lot in the short run.
 
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Si, signore.

But with crippled tech, everything will suck long term. It won't matter if you have a comparatively good military and economy if you then hamstring yourself so you're stuck in the dark ages. Tech should never, ever, be a dump stat, because it's so critical for absolutely everything.

I don't know that we'll be crippled- if I'm reading it right then tech conservatism will slow our technological advance but not stop it. And if not tech, then where should we dump? Intelligence? Not with compromising ourselves to the enemy. Economy? We can take economic maluses, but only if we take the pluses that will let us fix them. Military? We need that to survive. Diplomacy? Sure, I guess. But we can't dump there completely, we need Established.
 
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