Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
Ah, so it's like a super evolved special (B) skill? Good to know.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ah, so it's like a super evolved special (B) skill? Good to know.
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
Honestly, it's way better than what a lot of commoner born cultivators landing a Guardian Beast would have done.
If we had named him "Glorious Autumnal Tree Bridging Heaven and Earth" it would have screamed Nouveau Riche.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think a big thing to keep in mind is that politically, Sun Shao doesn't want to get into a scrap with the Cai. He cares about dunking on the Bai. His former heir was the one who keeps dragging it into a Sun vs Cai battle, and that is likely to be one of the reasons she was removed as heir. (Besides loss of face from losing in the finals.)
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
He doesn't really have a choice in the matter, what with the Cai now having definite inroads to the Bai and the Bai apparently (In the form of their upcoming Matriarch) agreeing to it. He has to now make the Cai withdraw from this by any means necessary, be it diplomacy, giving them a goldilocks deal that outweighs anything the Bai can offer, or giving her too much to deal with to allow her to give any material support either.
Again, Sun Shao cannot back down due to his Way, which we know includes "Everything for Family" as a core maxim. He knows the Bai never let go of a grudge, and he's wounded them more deeply than anyone in recent history--his family is toast if he hasn't annihilated the Bai by the time he dies. And that's what's going to cause Problems, because unless he's got a solution to them waking up Grandmother Serpent--either in the form of "At least the people I care about will survive it, but they'll be buried under a billion feet of poison water", or some kind of way of stopping this from becoming an issue in the first place--then this is going to be pretty apocalyptic for human civilization as is known here.
The Bai's fault, of course, is being so intractable when it comes to grudges that they've created this game of chicken. Anyone who offends them for any reason has to go All In or get murderhated to death (And probably even then). It worked just fine as long as the people they hated were too weak to stop the Bai's vengeance, or had a strong enough grasp of the Rules of Engagement that both sides know to keep it to quarrels and one-upmanship rather than escalation to "One cannot live while the other survives" (The relation they have with the Zheng). The Sun are just that perfect storm of "Strong enough to actually hurt their foundations" and "In a position where they're fundamentally incompatible with the very existence of the Bai", which leads to them being theoretically willing to escalate to the Ancestors coming out if that's what it takes to preserve their Family.
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[X] Xuan Shi: For once, the odd boy has called in your offered favor. He wishes for your aid in penetrating the interior of an odd little temple full of traps and puzzles.
We have paid it forward!
Anyone remember back when we first joined the Sect we looked at Jiao's attire and considered it worryingly quirky?
We have paid it forward!
well, to be fair: the grudge the Bai have is not just because they felt betrayed. Sun Shao drew so much military power from the province that defending every established village or town and maybe even city from spirits became impossible. Add the failed campaign against the Sun and the constant pressure from the empire in the recent time and I wouldnt be surprised at all, if Thousand Lakes lost several towns and villages. The only reason why I'm not sure about including cities despite the loss of several count clans is that Bai is a huge clan who might be able to hold the cities despite the losses.
Also about the Jin: in the epilogue of forge, Shenhua said that they are firm allies of the Sun, so we should expect their scion to act like that
Also about the Jin: in the epilogue of forge, Shenhua said that they are firm allies of the Sun, so we should expect their scion to act like that
Our robe allow us to fly. To do so it use a bunch of very small wings made of wood that are hidden inside the textile.
Our use of our robe thus trained that skill.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's too late for that, to be honest. Shenhua switching from Imperial supporter to the new Cai/Bai/Xuan alliance (with Zheng support. Half the purpose of the realignment is to resist centralization) stole a march on everyone else on the political playing field. It's also the type of move that is disastrous to back out of half-way through, so barring another realignment of the board, the Cai/Bai thing is pretty much going to go through.
So what are the Jin and Sun doing?
Jin are sending a lesser scion, so a relatively small expenditure which gets them a couple things. First is an excuse to properly show up at the next political meet and greet at the sect (good job on Shenhua turning the Emerald Seas into a political center by co-opting an imperial institution a "neutral grounds" that totally favor her, btw). Second, following from the first, lets them sound out disrupting the Xuan addition to the Bai/Cai thing (which is less central to their interests). I'm not saying this is their only move towards their goals (they should be doing a lot else in other places that Ling Qi does not get to see), only that putting a scion here helps them get eyes on the situation that blindsided them and potential ins to try and salvage the situation of their monopoly being broken.
The afterthought goal there is probably to counter Xuan Shi, in that it's not expected but maybe the scion can humiliate Xuan Shi in a few years if they're both still there, or at least use diplomacy to make everyone like the Jin scion more than Xuan Shi (the Jin read to me as exactly the types who buy into their own hype about being master traders with silver tongues when their real advantage is their monopoly).
The Sun's goals are more subversive, I think, in a lesser replay of his gathering of dissenters within Thousand Lakes. They want to pressure Cai in a deniable way, not to stop the Cai/Bai thing, but to loosen her hold enough on Emerald Seas that it doesn't matter as much. Sending scions to make friends with Emerald Seas scions, selective "native" raids popping up and hitting some families and not others. Connections, and trade deals, and organization for all those who are discontent with Cai, who despite appearances is on somewhat shaky political ground mid move between Imperial Supporter to Old clan supporter. If enough clans shift to bothering by the book and slow down type tactics backed by "Of course I'm loyal, but I'm also loyal to our beloved Empress and her laws. I must make sure everything is done properly, blah blah" type excuses that can't be crushed and purged the way other types of rebellion would be it makes it more difficult for Shenhua to govern and takes up more of her time, effort, and attention. If Shenhua can be forced to turn her attention towards internal matters, and the trade routes between the Bai and the Cai made unsafe, this heavily neuters the Bai/Cai alliance and potentially makes it unsustainable. To Sun, the idea outcome would be the alliance collapses (due to lack of benefit), the imperial throne asserts more authority in the aftermath in retribution, and the Bai shrink in on themselves even more.
Sun isn't going to get all of that, but he likely thinks even a partial success will help weaken the Cai/Bai connection, and he's not wrong. I think he also has fundamentally miscalculated when it comes to Shenhua. Their wildly different background might lead him to consider her a politically weak leader who has relied on the support of others, and even her latest play just elevates her to politically savvy and opportunistic leader who relies on others. And in some ways he's not wrong (the Cai as a family are even more fragile than the Sun. Sun Shao, who is intimately aware of how fragile his own clan is, is probably reading his own concerns but larger into Shenhua's position), but fundamentally it's a misread. Shenhua relies on herself and her order, and she uses others and weaves them into her order. The Emerald Seas is not going to have the fault lines it should have, and it's not going to respond the way one would expect it to. It's still a work in progress, and it does have fault lines, but Shenhua has been shaping it into something slightly off from the old Emerald Seas and the Imperial Standard.
I also think the border friction is the leading contender for the flash point that accidentally turns this from a political realignment to erode centralization into an outright RoTK war setting. That's most likely at least a thread away though, but Yrs's style of worldbuilding is the type to have put the pieces in place, even if the whole picture isn't readily visible to the reader, long before the dominos start falling.
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- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
I see no reason to vote, since my ship is winning as much as he deserves, but I did have a thought.
If we can work it in, a Wood-Fire art with themes of Renewal, Vitality, or Spring might be good to work in for Zhengui quality time.
It would train slow as hell though, since I don't think we want to touch Yin Wood with a 10 foot pole, so ith probably needs to be Music as well.
If we can work it in, a Wood-Fire art with themes of Renewal, Vitality, or Spring might be good to work in for Zhengui quality time.
It would train slow as hell though, since I don't think we want to touch Yin Wood with a 10 foot pole, so ith probably needs to be Music as well.
Outer Sect Golden Fields
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Alright, this took me hours, but I finally finished it
Here's is the Golden Fields group left in the Outer Sect
This one took a lot out of me, need to rest
I totally would expect them to give Gan a run of his money during the tournament. They have access to all of the Argent arts. Though I can still see them being allied during the rest of the years (despite the chance that the Han may want to establish dominance)
@yrsillar here's some more *collapse*
Here's is the Golden Fields group left in the Outer Sect
This one took a lot out of me, need to rest
I totally would expect them to give Gan a run of his money during the tournament. They have access to all of the Argent arts. Though I can still see them being allied during the rest of the years (despite the chance that the Han may want to establish dominance)
@yrsillar here's some more *collapse*
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We have one actually, it's a good group buff art, we just haven't learned it yet.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Hah, yeah.
Anyway, just had a brainstorm of something we might explore in the later archive parts, but Cold/Fire is a valid elemental combination that can do some nasty stuff, is it?
Actually, what does the Cold Element even do? Music is what lets us play music that ignores whether the other guy can physically hear us or not, Cold seems to be a similar elemental kicker.
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- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm just waiting for her to pick up a Darkness Larceny Pickpocketing/Lifesteal art and ask for help in training it.
Also, if there's not a Darkness Larceny art named "The Shadow Hungers" I'll eat my hat.
- Location
- California
I really don't want to have fire in our build. We have too many elements as it is.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
This does raise a very interesting question: where is the empress in all of this? I refuse to believe that the son of her guard commander was anything but a play by his family, but that implies that the empress is basically letting this drama between houses play out, despite the advantage it brings to the Cai, who might be a dynastic threat.
We saw one ministry of integrity person in the Forges prologue, but I can't recall anything else representing the nominal ruler since. What's up with that?
I'm also trying to figure out what Sun Shao's endgame is here. Nothing has fundementally changed since he killed the leader of the Bai, so he has had fifty years or better to figure out a strategy. As far as I can tell, it consists of playing for time and hoping for a strong heir? But there isn't much indication of seeking alliances or other moves to increase security. Doubling down in Argent Sect to save face without an overall plan to win (how, what, and when?) seems like a frivolous waste, and he's general enough to see that. Unless the plan is to sow conflict in that alliance before it firms up...
So we should be watching for two things in terms of larger games: the Suns baiting conflict between Bai, Cai, and Xian (something one wants and the others don't? Maybe to do with division of imperial resources to various borders, the same way the Cai's count clans have conflict) or trying to seduce away either Xian or Cai. (Bai is presumed to be the only inherent threat.)
Sun gaining face won't impact the Cai/Bai/Xian alliance, so just peacocking for the Jin and empress? It almost seems foolish to continue to play games in the emerald sect beyond spying- any real countermoves should occur out of the Cai's sight.
- Location
- United States of America
I mean, I understand people's concern regarding Zhengui's more destructive side not receiving the attention it might need to truly flourish, but us getting a non-destructive fire art won't help with that.
Rather, we know that Zhengui can train with others to develop aspects of himself that we can't really teach well, such as when Gui Tai helped Zhengui learn his explosive art and figure out more of his dual nature.
In that vein, I think that if we are concerned about Zhengui's destructive side not getting the care it needs, we ask Xiulan to help. She is extremely potent with her fire arts and her insights on the destructive nature of fire could help Zhengui learn more about what he can do regarding his own destructive elements.
We have friends who are probably willing to help us if we ask, so let's actually let them help us. We can't do everything, and there is value in letting people who are specialized in the type of thing we are interested in teach and assist us.
Rather, we know that Zhengui can train with others to develop aspects of himself that we can't really teach well, such as when Gui Tai helped Zhengui learn his explosive art and figure out more of his dual nature.
In that vein, I think that if we are concerned about Zhengui's destructive side not getting the care it needs, we ask Xiulan to help. She is extremely potent with her fire arts and her insights on the destructive nature of fire could help Zhengui learn more about what he can do regarding his own destructive elements.
We have friends who are probably willing to help us if we ask, so let's actually let them help us. We can't do everything, and there is value in letting people who are specialized in the type of thing we are interested in teach and assist us.
- Location
- CA
I keep seeing comments like this, and... in this case, it honestly doesn't seem like it'd be bad?
Minimizing elements was important back when you could stack equip effects for one element up to god-like effects, but that was patched out of the old system and I'm pretty sure it isn't possible in this one either. Minimizing elements is good when you don't have cultivation effects for those elements, but Wood-Fire is the same as Wind (.2 + .2 from Spirit Beast versus .2 from Spirit Beast + .2 innate). Wind arts do specifically have a +hit, but Zhengui's specifically-elemental effects are kind of weak and I'd expect him to develop more in that direction later. With Sixiang and Hanyi, almost the entire binary regarding cultivation bonuses is, "is it music?"
You can say something about personality effects, but I'd honestly think more elements might be better--it nudges you toward adhering more closely to your Way than to your elemental affinities (because it diffuses their influences), and most people aren't going to cultivate the grand way of I Am Literally A Tree.
Is this just an old thought people aren't questioning any more?
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LQ's wide elemental spread has been remarked on in text as being suboptimal.
So while right now it is no longer being so heavily punished mechanically (btw, don't forget Darkness = Domain Weapon), it is not something that is supported by the "lore"
- Location
- California
You're right. Thinking about it more, it seems like Fire would be fine since we already have a bonus for it. Other elements wouldn't be fine though. It would be better if our spirits gave bonuses to fewer elements so that we could stack the bonuses, but that ship's already sailed.
Fire's also still worse from an equipment standpoint since we don't have any talismans that boost fire and we'd have to give something up if we looked for one.
It's not optimal, but it would be worth it if the art was good with it's other elements belonging to our core group of elements.
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Fire would not be fine. Fire arts focused on attack would absolutely not fit our paradigm.
Morever, yang fire (which would be like zhengui's) only get .3 base bonus, and no bonus dices, so anything that isn't music is gonna train incredibly slowly.