Adding on maybe not reject more like acknowledging it and saying cool but lets focus on the ends happening now and what comes after.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Adding on maybe not reject more like acknowledging it and saying cool but lets focus on the ends happening now and what comes after.
- Location
- USA
This is our main offensive tech right? Our main hurty-killy tech. The rest all whittle down and cause attrition, right?
Prepare for rambling while I get my thoughts in order:
To shorten my rambling. 2 is searching for D E E P W I N T E R, furthering our understanding of Zeqing. 1 has a lot going on for it, and potentially fluffs our and builds further on our current battle style, it's a very solid option that I think builds off of our Ice Clan connection and Hanyi. 3 builds on the same kind of understandings we get from Zhengui instead of Hanyi, and is more Tsu-y, imo, I think its also closer to the entirety of the winter season, rather than a specific aspect, in it's thematic explorations.
I think 3 is the best long term choice, tbh, with 1 as a close second. I think option 2 is the 'worst' option in the long term.
Prepare for rambling while I get my thoughts in order:
I feel like if we continue that way, the P&P option sounds best. It's very Zeqing. And I assume that we keep FSS to imprint on a jade for our clan right? I don't think looking here is best option, we aren't a very direct fighter, and didn't we get big boosts for dueling/isolating and picking off people one at a time very recently? Seems like we need a direct finisher a little less. The edits also make it double down on the isolation. I forsee it being very strong at dueling and when we isolate and pick off foes. That edit does seem to make it jive with everything much better.
If we want to continue kiting, stealthing, and delaying, building more debuffs into it, AP&M. It also fits Hanyi really well, so theoretical boost to our spirit if she learns it too, or boost from our spirit's insights in it's creation. Further it also brings us into tune of the cutting mountain winds and the winds of the tundra and ice pack below the wall. Lastly it brings us back to our windy start. It makes us even stealthier, gives us more kiting, and with cold knife winds could easily still remain or improve a direct damage technique. We haven't finished the wind thief, which itself is a big boost to stealth and movement, plus hilarious thiefery sidereal exalted style shenanigans, see denying Yan Renshu goodies by stealing something from inside someone's rib cage, plus we already know it can steal Law sooooo. (That's going to be one of the best successor arts when we get there, because we are going to be able to steal all sorts of things, like lives.)
Though the P&R option feels the most in tune with this particular update though, and with Zhengui. And it would interact interestingly with CRX and our project, I think. I'm of the mind that this option is perhaps the most expansive. It would bring in more water to our overall cultivation (it certainly implies). It maybe fits the seasonality that the taiga of our fife will experience. I bet that the melts in spring are really fucking intense. This might be the best option, strategically, since it jives really well with our fife's geography really well. And I bet Meng Geomancy works with the land a lot more than it controls it, so defenses would be thematic, and understanding the taiga more, and it's seasons would only help. So like Extra Tsu/Weilu imo. And then with our opposite-ish understandings of purification and renewal we can further bounce off our not!son.
If we want to continue kiting, stealthing, and delaying, building more debuffs into it, AP&M. It also fits Hanyi really well, so theoretical boost to our spirit if she learns it too, or boost from our spirit's insights in it's creation. Further it also brings us into tune of the cutting mountain winds and the winds of the tundra and ice pack below the wall. Lastly it brings us back to our windy start. It makes us even stealthier, gives us more kiting, and with cold knife winds could easily still remain or improve a direct damage technique. We haven't finished the wind thief, which itself is a big boost to stealth and movement, plus hilarious thiefery sidereal exalted style shenanigans, see denying Yan Renshu goodies by stealing something from inside someone's rib cage, plus we already know it can steal Law sooooo. (That's going to be one of the best successor arts when we get there, because we are going to be able to steal all sorts of things, like lives.)
Though the P&R option feels the most in tune with this particular update though, and with Zhengui. And it would interact interestingly with CRX and our project, I think. I'm of the mind that this option is perhaps the most expansive. It would bring in more water to our overall cultivation (it certainly implies). It maybe fits the seasonality that the taiga of our fife will experience. I bet that the melts in spring are really fucking intense. This might be the best option, strategically, since it jives really well with our fife's geography really well. And I bet Meng Geomancy works with the land a lot more than it controls it, so defenses would be thematic, and understanding the taiga more, and it's seasons would only help. So like Extra Tsu/Weilu imo. And then with our opposite-ish understandings of purification and renewal we can further bounce off our not!son.
To shorten my rambling. 2 is searching for D E E P W I N T E R, furthering our understanding of Zeqing. 1 has a lot going on for it, and potentially fluffs our and builds further on our current battle style, it's a very solid option that I think builds off of our Ice Clan connection and Hanyi. 3 builds on the same kind of understandings we get from Zhengui instead of Hanyi, and is more Tsu-y, imo, I think its also closer to the entirety of the winter season, rather than a specific aspect, in it's thematic explorations.
I think 3 is the best long term choice, tbh, with 1 as a close second. I think option 2 is the 'worst' option in the long term.
Not sure what I'll vote for yet, but this
Is peak sibling energy
- Location
- CA
[ ] She would make her successor a song of the years ending, the cold that puts the old world to sleep, that it may be born anew in the spring flooding, a thing of waters and rebirth. (+2 Expression XP, sets Successor themes toward Purification and Renewal)
Part of what I like about this is that it creates a spectrum of Hanyi, Zeqing and Ling Qi, with each of them taking a part of Winter--and with both of Zeqing's students and children standing on each side of her. That fits so well with the themes of growth and change here.
Part of what I like about this is that it creates a spectrum of Hanyi, Zeqing and Ling Qi, with each of them taking a part of Winter--and with both of Zeqing's students and children standing on each side of her. That fits so well with the themes of growth and change here.
Mother Nyx
Mother of Elpis
- Location
- The Kei Klub
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[ ]She would make her successor a song of deep winter, the cold that cannot be banished without hearth and kin, a thing of purest dark and cold(+2 Expression XP. Sets the Successor themes toward Persistence and Power.)
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To be clear, while 3 generally fits Zhengui's themes, it's very much about our insight, not Zhengui. This is a LQ & Hanyi moment. And like, while it's a valid argument, I really don't want it to control the arguments for 3 because there seems to be a lot of salt and ash about making arts fit Zhengui and archive votes.
So 3 is mainly about our insight, not Zhengui. Zhengui fits it, yeah, but that's only because his themes fit our insight well. 3 even directly references Winter changing to Spring, as our insight does. Plus, Xeph got me with Purification through Endings and Beginnings.
So 3 is mainly about our insight, not Zhengui. Zhengui fits it, yeah, but that's only because his themes fit our insight well. 3 even directly references Winter changing to Spring, as our insight does. Plus, Xeph got me with Purification through Endings and Beginnings.
1 does nothing for me. 2 looks interesting, but I'm not sure. I might change my opinion but for now I'm leaning towards 3 because:
1. It synergises with Zhengui's themes. Anything that brings us closer to Best Turtle is a plus in my book. I'm a simple man.
2. I think it fits with her insights, like her second: "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings. (Cycles, Ending Creation.)" Ling Qi's idea of endings includes new beginnings afterward, and that's what option 3 is about.
3. The Weilu failed. They fell into strife, caused their Sublime Ancestor to abandon them, and finally vanished from the world. Echoes of their teachings remain, but much of it is perverted, as the Hui showed, or stagnant, unfit for a changing world, as we see with the Weilu Reactionaries. Let's take a look at the text of option 3 again: [ ] She would make her successor a song of the years ending, the cold that puts the old world to sleep, that it may be born anew in the spring flooding, a thing of waters and rebirth. (+2 Expression XP, sets Successor themes toward Purification and Renewal)
Ling Qi walks the path of the Diviner, as she not-so-subtly told everyone in her play. Her cold will put an end to the rot and stagnancy, the failed ways of the old Weilu. She will Purify them. Then she will usher in a new way for the Emerald Seas. She will Renew them.
Ling Qi is the rebirth of the Weilu. Let her first successor art symbolise that.
1. It synergises with Zhengui's themes. Anything that brings us closer to Best Turtle is a plus in my book. I'm a simple man.
2. I think it fits with her insights, like her second: "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings. (Cycles, Ending Creation.)" Ling Qi's idea of endings includes new beginnings afterward, and that's what option 3 is about.
3. The Weilu failed. They fell into strife, caused their Sublime Ancestor to abandon them, and finally vanished from the world. Echoes of their teachings remain, but much of it is perverted, as the Hui showed, or stagnant, unfit for a changing world, as we see with the Weilu Reactionaries. Let's take a look at the text of option 3 again: [ ] She would make her successor a song of the years ending, the cold that puts the old world to sleep, that it may be born anew in the spring flooding, a thing of waters and rebirth. (+2 Expression XP, sets Successor themes toward Purification and Renewal)
Ling Qi walks the path of the Diviner, as she not-so-subtly told everyone in her play. Her cold will put an end to the rot and stagnancy, the failed ways of the old Weilu. She will Purify them. Then she will usher in a new way for the Emerald Seas. She will Renew them.
Ling Qi is the rebirth of the Weilu. Let her first successor art symbolise that.
- Location
- United States of America
Ahh, Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief once again delivers. Both of these look really cool. Especially Boundaries Untrodden. Yes, I want exp for those two concepts, but I also love the thought of a thief slipping through the veil of death.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yao said "People die when they are killed."
Ling Qi said "Lol. Lmao even."
- Location
- foraging for beans
I mean, the fact that 1 and 2 are choices makes it clear that successor arts don't have to completely follow the lessons you learned from the original. It's apparently perfectly fine to try integrating new and foreign concepts into the successor art (option 1 splicing in LFWT/wind stuff) or to use the successor to focus on other themes in the original art that weren't covered in the insight taken (option 2 focusing in on cold and dark (you'll note option 2 doesn't mention endings btw)).
So we could see things like how LQ's understanding of Cold, Endings, Wind, and Motion interplay. Or we could see a much deeper interrogation of what cold and dark really mean to LQ. While being cold and alone were important parts of her experience on the street, if you look at LQ's list of insights on the front page, you'll see that she doesn't have any insights about them. It's perfectly valid to vote for 1 or 2 if you're happy with where the FSS arc ended and would rather see one of these narrative directions instead.
So we could see things like how LQ's understanding of Cold, Endings, Wind, and Motion interplay. Or we could see a much deeper interrogation of what cold and dark really mean to LQ. While being cold and alone were important parts of her experience on the street, if you look at LQ's list of insights on the front page, you'll see that she doesn't have any insights about them. It's perfectly valid to vote for 1 or 2 if you're happy with where the FSS arc ended and would rather see one of these narrative directions instead.
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Heya, first time posting on thread, as I've been binging the story, sidestuff and some apocrypha. I'm assuming anyone can join in and vote, love the story a lot.
[X]She would make her successor a song of deep winter, the cold that cannot be banished without hearth and kin, a thing of purest dark and cold(+2 Expression XP. Sets the Successor themes toward Persistence and Power.)
[X]She would make her successor a song of deep winter, the cold that cannot be banished without hearth and kin, a thing of purest dark and cold(+2 Expression XP. Sets the Successor themes toward Persistence and Power.)
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Its also very appealing to see what Yan Renshu's reaction would be to us bypassing his security again.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ling Qi's Isolation concept is specifically about the cold and dark of the streets and using bonds and connections to fight that. That's why she integrated FVM into her Domain So that she'll never forget that. She's literally a cautionary tale that says, Don't run towards Isolation, because you'll be cold, lost in the dark and, worst of all, *alone*.
- Location
- foraging for beans
Sure. But I didn't say "LQ's concepts", I said "LQ's insights." I'll quote the list below so you can find the insight that specifically relates to dark and/or cold.
The point I'm making is that LQ hasn't meditated on cold or darkness to the point where she's made them part of her self, her domain. And that this is an opportunity to do so.
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- Location
- FR
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I strongly dislike 3 for a few reasons, some better than others.
First of all, reinserting the water element is bad, because according to the memes, water=bad.
Now that that's out of my system; looking at it from a practical point of view, we don't need to concentrate on the primary themes of the third option to the point of integrating it into what will always be an offensive art. Renewal just doesn't strikes me as a particularly good theme for an offensive art, and CRX makes Purification work because she bleaches everything out of existence with Light and/or Radiance in a way Cold and Water can't.
Thematically, I'd argue that Motion, and probably Anti-perception as well, are the "happy themes" of LQ. The ones that she actually likes basking in, even if she's aware of their limtations. Meanwhile, Persistence and power feel like a study of what she needs to be and to do to protect herself, her family, and her friends which I would argue she hasn't really done yet, which would make interesting variations on her current insights on those concepts. My preference goes to 2, but I'll also vote 1 for now (once we can vote, that is)
[ ] She would make her successor a song of the early chill, the cold snap in spring, the cold that surprises and reaps the unprepared, a thing as much of wind as cold. (+2 Expression XP, Sets the Successor toward themes of Anti-Perception and Motion.)
[ ]She would make her successor a song of deep winter, the cold that cannot be banished without hearth and kin, a thing of purest dark and cold(+2 Expression XP. Sets the Successor themes toward Persistence and Power.)
First of all, reinserting the water element is bad, because according to the memes, water=bad.
Now that that's out of my system; looking at it from a practical point of view, we don't need to concentrate on the primary themes of the third option to the point of integrating it into what will always be an offensive art. Renewal just doesn't strikes me as a particularly good theme for an offensive art, and CRX makes Purification work because she bleaches everything out of existence with Light and/or Radiance in a way Cold and Water can't.
Thematically, I'd argue that Motion, and probably Anti-perception as well, are the "happy themes" of LQ. The ones that she actually likes basking in, even if she's aware of their limtations. Meanwhile, Persistence and power feel like a study of what she needs to be and to do to protect herself, her family, and her friends which I would argue she hasn't really done yet, which would make interesting variations on her current insights on those concepts. My preference goes to 2, but I'll also vote 1 for now (once we can vote, that is)
[ ] She would make her successor a song of the early chill, the cold snap in spring, the cold that surprises and reaps the unprepared, a thing as much of wind as cold. (+2 Expression XP, Sets the Successor toward themes of Anti-Perception and Motion.)
[ ]She would make her successor a song of deep winter, the cold that cannot be banished without hearth and kin, a thing of purest dark and cold(+2 Expression XP. Sets the Successor themes toward Persistence and Power.)
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ooop. This one is on me then. I misread. Thanks for bringing that up!!
Still on that though, Ling Qi's insights are lessons she's learned from *an art* and chooses to integrate into herself and her Domain, not her understanding of things. They shape her worldview and Way, yes, but to really explore what something *means* to her, then we'll need to look at her concepts.
- Location
- USA
We already have water though, don't we? Our super awesome Bai defensive art is all about Lake Hei and water. We might even eventually be able to funky geomantic things with Snowblossom's Lake. That probably needs a name too, if it has one, I can't remember it, and I'm not a fan of naming a river and a lake the same thing tbh. And make it more like Lake Hei but with some differing themes, probably adding Cold where Lake Hei has Wide, since Lake Hei is more like an inland freshwater sea, but it's very possible to swing D E E P, void, and ripples I think.
And since the fief is kinda implied to eventually be ours (viscounty most likely), river and lake water arts are pretty awesome, and a grand place to start even as we and our clan refine ourselves.
Actually, I'd be really hype if we can build our first true us art around the rivers of our fife. Dancing in and out of the earth, carrying beautiful snowblossoms, raging when the snow melts, yet bringing life.
Edit: Oh, right 8 elements not 5. Lake is a thing.
- Location
- foraging for beans
Well, I just want more relentless cold and darkness in LQ's life.
NoxOfUmbra
Shadow of the night
- Location
- Colombia, South América
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] She would make her successor a song of the years ending, the cold that puts the old world to sleep, that it may be born anew in the spring flooding, a thing of waters and rebirth. (+2 Expression XP, sets Successor themes toward Purification and Renewal)
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- Location
- Europe
There are endings and Endings, which is why it's important that you can decide when it's the last time you have to deal with a mother fucker. Let's cross Renshu off that list, next time we meet him.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[ ] She would make her successor a song of the years ending, the cold that puts the old world to sleep, that it may be born anew in the spring flooding, a thing of waters and rebirth. (+2 Expression XP, sets Successor themes toward Purification and Renewal)
At the end of the day, #1 is what Hanyi is doing. #2 is still too much like Zeqing from our liking, and it doesn't fit enough with our themes. #3 has some connections with our precious boi, but it fits well with Ling Qi's other insights and her goals of helping restore the Weilu culture through reformation along with Meng Diu.
At the end of the day, #1 is what Hanyi is doing. #2 is still too much like Zeqing from our liking, and it doesn't fit enough with our themes. #3 has some connections with our precious boi, but it fits well with Ling Qi's other insights and her goals of helping restore the Weilu culture through reformation along with Meng Diu.
I feel like Ling Qi has never really been about the cold that surprises. Cold has always been an ever present thing for her, a representation of the hostility and danger of the world and something you have to constantly fight against, and while 1 sort of captures that since becoming a cultivator the unseen dangers haven't really been interesting to Ling Qi.
3 feels like the direction Yrs is heading. The story has kind of moved away from Cold as something scary, and philosophy has been more occupied with ideas of renewal. So on one hand 3 fits the themes of a lot that's going on and on the other we don't really need a renewal Art when so much of our environment is renewal, let alone continue an Insight that's firmly in our Way. Also, it's water and floods and eugh.
But I'd like to keep some of what drove Ling Qi when she started and that's option 2's idea of Cold as something ever present and inescapable that you have to find some way to resist. And for Ling QI that way was always friends and family, for need of power or simple happiness. And I want to focus on that Isolation theme, I want to combine it with out Mist and phantoms to turn our understanding of isolation against our enemies. And with War as an analogy of Cold I like the Preserverance/Power concepts for Hanyi and Ling Qi's debate on the act of taking since that what the hunger of Cold means to Ling Qi, and I think focusing on the qi drain side of FSS and what that means philosophically would be cool and a way to really contemplate what it means to struggle and survive.
3 feels like the direction Yrs is heading. The story has kind of moved away from Cold as something scary, and philosophy has been more occupied with ideas of renewal. So on one hand 3 fits the themes of a lot that's going on and on the other we don't really need a renewal Art when so much of our environment is renewal, let alone continue an Insight that's firmly in our Way. Also, it's water and floods and eugh.
But I'd like to keep some of what drove Ling Qi when she started and that's option 2's idea of Cold as something ever present and inescapable that you have to find some way to resist. And for Ling QI that way was always friends and family, for need of power or simple happiness. And I want to focus on that Isolation theme, I want to combine it with out Mist and phantoms to turn our understanding of isolation against our enemies. And with War as an analogy of Cold I like the Preserverance/Power concepts for Hanyi and Ling Qi's debate on the act of taking since that what the hunger of Cold means to Ling Qi, and I think focusing on the qi drain side of FSS and what that means philosophically would be cool and a way to really contemplate what it means to struggle and survive.
Wind/Cold ties in with LQ's Motion/Antiscry from LFWT, and evokes the same element of backstabbing surprise that LQ's other arts enable. I can't convince myself that it isn't an unnecessary one though. "Can't Touch Me" as an art's power fantasy works better for a movement/dodge/anti-divination suite than in an offensive art. IDK if it would be synergistic or too narrowly focused on overlapping.
Dark/Cold and Water/Cold are complicated. The Water/Cold art could grant some super cute cultivation scenes with the beavers and the Liminal Prison. But beyond that scenario, I think that Water/Cold as an primary offensive/offensive-support art goes too far into 'Spring' and liquid 'Water' from the baseline Cold of FSS. At this point, Dark/Cold is only hanging in for me by virtue of not having any particularly outstanding issues.
Reading what other's have said, I suppose that I could see everything tying together for me if the Water/Cold art channeled Purification and Renewal though a sufficiently icy medium, like a glacial cataract smashing someone and leaving a muddy smear of dirt behind in the valley.
Dark/Cold and Water/Cold are complicated. The Water/Cold art could grant some super cute cultivation scenes with the beavers and the Liminal Prison. But beyond that scenario, I think that Water/Cold as an primary offensive/offensive-support art goes too far into 'Spring' and liquid 'Water' from the baseline Cold of FSS. At this point, Dark/Cold is only hanging in for me by virtue of not having any particularly outstanding issues.
Reading what other's have said, I suppose that I could see everything tying together for me if the Water/Cold art channeled Purification and Renewal though a sufficiently icy medium, like a glacial cataract smashing someone and leaving a muddy smear of dirt behind in the valley.