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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Spacegnom said:
Starting a politcal pissing match with a Viscount family over backstory grief is so cliche Xiaxia, I hope the thread never goes for it.
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Thing is - following Xianxia cliches is not inherently wrong. Some - yes, but this one is situation dependent. And in this case:
1. It's net gain both for common people and province
2. Done right LQ can do it without consequences.
And hence not wrong.

PS. Usual problem with most xianxia cliches is not "what", it's "how" and/or "when".
 
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About ling Qi's father we know from the RR version that he gave mom the wrong departure time for his caravan. He told he a day but it was the day before that.She was then caught right after if I had to guess I would say he sold her out
 
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Joseph0o0 said:
About ling Qi's father we know from the RR version that he gave mom the wrong departure time for his caravan. He told he a day but it was the day before that.She was then caught right after if I had to guess I would say he sold her out
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If he sold her out he's dead.

You think the Liu would be any kind of merciful to the one who cuckholded their Young Master?
 
al103 said:
Thing is - following Xianxia cliches is not inherently wrong. Some - yes, but this one is situation dependent. And in this case:
1. It's net gain both for common people and province
2. Done right LQ can do it without consequences.
And hence not wrong.

PS. Usual problem with most xianxia cliches is not "what", it's "how" and/or "when".
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How would you go about proving your two points?
 
Broadly, I'm not sure there's much chance of following up on the Liu without something happening to force the issue.

Ling Qi doesn't care about grudges. It's hard for her to even remember people who she might have beef with if they aren't a clear, present, and active threat.

Ling Qingge largely just wants to move on with her life.

Neither of them are gonna push for revenge on the Liu.

On the Liu's end of things, a very minor issue suddenly got a whole lot of teeth in the form of the Senior Judge-Magistrate showing up to poke his nose into some of their stuff. Someone like that may have just helped out on Ling Qingge's case and then go back home or he may have decided "While I'm here, I may as well" and started kicking anthills over and see what illegal shit he could find happening. We don't know because we never really followed up on that and IIRC, Ling Qingge moved in with us not long after.

The Liu in all probability looked into things on the basis of "Why is that guy here?" if nothing else, which leads to Cai Renxiang at the least and likely Ling Qi when the question becomes "Okay, why does she want him here?" The buck probably stops there with the Liu being unwilling to push matters. Because what are they gonna do? Go after the family of a direct retainer of the Ducal Heir of the Emerald Seas? In all likelihood, they're gonna try and keep their heads down to avoid any more trouble and probably have some fall guys set up if necessary.
 
Does anyone remember which update has Qingge talking about the confrontation the Liu stooges had with the (IIRC) the town's Head Magistrate after Renxiang put in a word? I'd like to re-read it.

Edit: NVM, @CrimsonOddball quoted it already. Thanks!
 
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Whatever we do in the future, it must not be a revenge that breaks Renxiang's own standards of justice. We should absolutely try to elevate the rights and protections of the lowest commoners, that's something we shouldn't forget no matter how beyond it Qi is now, but breaking the rules to carry out a grudge is everything we want to stop. I'm not against an intervention in this city, it kinda sucks in many ways, but making it better is a rather higher priority than making them suffer.
 
ChronOblivion said:
Whatever we do in the future, it must not be a revenge that breaks Renxiang's own standards of justice. We should absolutely try to elevate the rights and protections of the lowest commoners, that's something we shouldn't forget no matter how beyond it Qi is now, but breaking the rules to carry out a grudge is everything we want to stop. I'm not against an intervention in this city, it kinda sucks in many ways, but making it better is a rather higher priority than making them suffer.
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Obviously, but there's zero need for anything that violates Renxiang's sensibilities. The Liu are corrupt enough that 'other irons in the fire' on Cai Shenhua's part is probably the only reason she hasn't done a serious purge, and while Renxiang isn't gonna go that far, what she will do will be more than sufficient to ruin the current leaders and see the people guilty of specific abuses like the ones inflicted on Ling Qingge punished very harshly indeed.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Fundamentally, I think the Ling Qi needs to utterly destroy only one person to get revenge here. The man who wanted her mother as his concubine.

The rest of the family can and should be punished for aiding him, but their actions line them up for that sufficiently under the fair and just rule of Cai Renxiang. That guy, however, demands a personal touch. Not that we need to do anything illegal to make that happen, mind you. But the personal investment of effort seems warranted in his case.
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True, and there's also a matter of priorities to consider. Like, I don't think anything of what Ling Qi has done up to this point in the quest is less important than seeking revenge on shitty relatives that are as far as I understand kinda unable to harm us in any significant way. And even now, unless something else comes up, there might be other priorities for a while.
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Wasn't it? The magistrate that Cai Renxiang sent in seemed to think it was highly illegal indeed. As does our understanding of Imperial Law. And then, of course, if they did this because one minor scion was personally offended I highly doubt it was their only such transgression (to say nothing of the exorcist story mentioned). If a serious investigator starts investigating them they are in trouble.

The Liu are corrupt as hell and Cai Shenhua does not abide corruption nor do her enforcers. The Liu are hanging on at the moment because they haven't been focused on, but they are a vestige of Hui policy and that means them being wrecked by the new order is inevitable. Doing so earlier than planned as a favor to us is very much on the table.
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I'd be *very* disappointed in Magical Girl "Heaven is Wrong" Robespierre's politics if a noble could literally force a servant to live as a prostitute and (if I understand correctly) waste cleaner for decades because she didn't want to become his concubine, to the point of her having handlers who oversaw her punishment. And that's not even mentioning the possible murder, and who exactly this person is.

Qingge is the mother of Ling Qi, who is being groomed as a member of Reixiang's personal retinue, right? Her spymistress. Even ignoring personal grudges, even ignoring corruption and power structures that allowed this in the first place and how much those things matter to the political faction Ling Qi is aligned to, I'm pretty sure that "my own mother was forced into unspeakable conditions for refusing to be violated and I did not seek even lawful punishment for the perpetrators" is the sort of skeleton in a closet that political enemies would love to dig up and use. It's not even a good idea, it's downright necessary at some point to at least investigate Ling Qi's dad's fate and to at least encourage a bit more of digging into the Liu, either because no one should have to go through what Qingge went through, or because she's fast becoming too important to let something egregious like that be ignored even if she just wanted to let this go.

And, honestly...

yrsillar said:
"I lived freely for a few months," her Mother replied wistfully. "I made questionable choices… though I do not regret you Ling Qi, some of the decisions involved were not my best." She shook her head, her eyes dropping back to the tabletop. "I could escape notice forever though. My father expelled me from the family, in hopes of limiting the Liu's retaliation. He succeeded I suppose, the man who had wanted me was satisfied with ensuring that that the only occupation I could find was the one which he felt I deserved."

Ah, her teacup had frozen, she would have to apologize to the owner, Ling Qi thought absently. Thankfully the effect was localized, so Mother hadn't been disturbed. One thing stood out to her though, an opening to a question she had never really considered, beyond assuming the answer to be 'one of her clients'. "If I may ask, Mother, you said that came, before…"
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I think she might be a tad miffed about it as well.
 
Ohno said:
I'd be *very* disappointed in Magical Girl "Heaven is Wrong" Robespierre's politics if a noble could literally force a servant to live as a prostitute and (if I understand correctly) waste cleaner for decades because she didn't want to become his concubine, to the point of her having handlers who oversaw her punishment. And that's not even mentioning the possible murder, and who exactly this person is.
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Its easier than you'd think to force someone into a corner like that entirely legally. Just drop a word with the employer that the viscount would frown upon employing her and nobody will take her. No direct violence needed. And since she DOES have a means of not starving(immediately anyway), it passes, barely.

The real crime was when the bullyboys sent to keep it that way decided to add 'debts' she didn't actually owe them(echoes of Ji Rong taking a cut here), but thats not a case you can pursue all the way up the chain.
 
veekie said:
Its easier than you'd think to force someone into a corner like that entirely legally. Just drop a word with the employer that the viscount would frown upon employing her and nobody will take her. No direct violence needed. And since she DOES have a means of not starving(immediately anyway), it passes, barely.
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I'm pretty sure this kind of intimidation and harassment is, in fact, illegal. But it hardly matters if this specific act isn't, because, due to the pettiness of the reason for it and how far they went to keep it up, it's indicative that they believe they can do anything they want without consequence, and people who believe that have certainly done various other indisputably illegal acts. Like, a man who will do this to a woman for turning him down (and particularly given she turned him down due to his reputation of brutality with women) is a rapist. I highly doubt he's not provably guilty of rape if you can provide protection to the women who might accuse him. And the family as a whole are certainly guilty of a wide variety of abuses and malfeasance.

veekie said:
The real crime was when the bullyboys sent to keep it that way decided to add 'debts' she didn't actually owe them(echoes of Ji Rong taking a cut here), but thats not a case you can pursue all the way up the chain.
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The thing is we don't need to prove they messed with Ling Qingge specifically. We just need to prove they're grossly corrupt and guilty of abusing the mortals under their care. That's objectively true and very doable. Nobody can be careful to hide all the evidence all the time if they keep this stuff up, and evidence suggests they probably don't even try very hard as they think they're above the law.
 
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Right, it's important to realize that the actual day-to-day "enforcement" of Qingge's censure wasn't carried out by members, or probably even direct agents, of the Liu. It'd be dudes from a clan probably not unlike Qingge's old one. Not even real cultivators. After the initial proclamation by the young master which put her on the shitlist, it's been second or third string goons harassing her.

Thus is the power of hierarchies.
 
Why are people talking about the Liu ?
IIRC while Qingge's punishment started because she didn't want to be some Liu's concubine, the actual punishment was inflicted by her own clan (probably to pre-empt any punishment from the Liu against Qingge and her clan as a whole).
The Liu probably have very little to do with this.

Am I misremembering things?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Why are people talking about the Liu ?
IIRC while Qingge's punishment started because she didn't want to be some Liu's concubine, the actual punishment was inflicted by her own clan (probably to pre-empt any punishment from the Liu against Qingge and her clan as a whole).
The Liu probably have very little to do with this.

Am I misremembering things?
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You are indeed misremembering. Her family kicked her out, hence the name change, but the 'you are not allowed any job but prostitution' thing was very explicitly the guy she rejected. And, by extension, his family. As was the later hitting her with fake debts.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
The thing is we don't need to prove they messed with Ling Qingge specifically. We just need to prove they're grossly corrupt and guilty of abusing the mortals under their care. That's objectively true and very doable. Nobody can be careful to hide all the evidence all the time if they keep this stuff up, and evidence suggests they probably don't even try very hard as they think they're above the law.
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If we can get Glorious Oppression Mom involved, we won't need to prove much of anything, she can just ask a question and they will confess.
Doing so would be kinda difficult though.

There probably is evidence all over the place though.
 
Joseph0o0 said:
About ling Qi's father we know from the RR version that he gave mom the wrong departure time for his caravan. He told he a day but it was the day before that.She was then caught right after if I had to guess I would say he sold her out
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I mean, that doesn't mean he abandoned Qingge. It could easily mean that he was killed, and his circus troupe left Tonghou in a hurry afterward in fear of more retribution
 
Why would Ling Qi need to go after the Liu personally? Given her previous record, her mere existence and completely unrelated actions will probably result in chaos that brings them down without her having to do anything. :V
 
That's true. Iirc, Tonghou is close to the viscounty where we found Yan Renshu. If there's going to a large scale audit in that region, and not just that one viscounty, the Liu will suffer
 
Snow said:
Why would Ling Qi need to go after the Liu personally? Given her previous record, her mere existence and completely unrelated actions will probably result in chaos that brings them down without her having to do anything. :V
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Because some of us don't want to wait.
Also sometimes it's nice to personaly go ruin some shitheads day.
 
I kinda want waiting until LQ hits Cyan just so we can really rub it against their face though.
As a Viscount clan that should be their highest grade right?
 
Alphaleph said:
I kinda want waiting until LQ hits Cyan just so we can really rub it against their face though.
As a Viscount clan that should be their highest grade right?
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Indigo, unfortunately.
Edit: Might even be an old Violet in the basement. If I recall correctly the family's rank depends on the highest realm of the clan head's generation, not the Patriarch's.
 
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