- Location
- Washington
Do you personally actually expect any surprises in the information we're going to get about the Diao?
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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I don't expect to be surprised. I do expect there to be surprise in the thread.
- Location
- Washington DC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Your criticisms would be a lot more compelling if they weren't continually interspersed with put-downs towards both your fellow players and towards Yrsillar.
If you want to come off like you're raising legitimate criticism rather than attempting to raise hell because you've been put into a situation you don't like, then please stick to the criticism part of your posts rather than inserting barbs like "weird nonsense" here and there every other post. All it does is be mean (maybe a more direct word choice than the earlier "unpleasant") without actually helping anyone. You've got actual reasonably constructive criticism in your posts - but that isn't it.
I appreciate and take to heart this caution. It was not my intent to insult or put anybody down. "Weird nonsense" was firmly directed at the ideas/framework I was disagreeing with, not the person behind them. However, I acknowledge that it was an indelicate tone.
My bad, @Anderein .
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
So I'm not changing my vote because [insert selection of arguments already listed out by other people], but this post has resulted in me being more ok with the Daio option winning if that happens. Thank you.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Vote was called, Wang won by like two votes or something.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Yeahhh. I posted before catching up with the thread. I be silly sometimes :/
Anyway;
I love Chao, he's the sort of guy that makes you wanna give him a huge hug and fistbump in greeting but damm his sister just stole the scene she was in. And I appreciate that.
So I want both, but kinda want to see his sister more.
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Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah yes, the aftermath of a vote where I overthink, doubt every decision I made, and worry that maybe qI focused my arguments towards the worse choice.
That being said, I do agree with @AbeoLogos that some votes require more information before we can *actually* vote, so that we can draw some lines before actually voting. Otherwise, it just boils down to speculation, and info is really easy to interpret in many ways.
For example, I think the two turn limit means the vote was for which group we'll focus on, leading up to the summit. Abeo read it as how long we'll be the hero of the hour.
And then the one line of confirmation we got, that this is adjacent to the summit. Now, this can either mean that this works parallel to summit prep or that it's beside the summit prep, which, in that case, means its irrelevant to it.
Now, I understand that some parts is this is genuinely because of the ambiguity of language. I also understand that votes do need to have consequences so we can't always get the information, like with the Caldera v Underground vote, which determined who died (Ruan Shen v Shen Hu), but we'll still actually need more info in some cases, like this vote. Information which we were supposed to get 3 turns ago, but didn't. Like, I was okay because we got confirmation that we'll get it next update, but this shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I also agree that this vote doesn't make sense in some ways. I don't believe that we're dropping one clan forever, just until the summit, but we don't actually have to do so. Or at least, CRX should be here. She wasn't, so we were left to rely on old info that we should focus on the Wang or Meng, but we don't know if she's changed her mind. That's another thing.
And my last gripe about this vote was its binary nature. There were four entities which we wanted to work on: The Diao, Central Valley, The Wang, and The Foundations, at least that was my interpretation of it. The fact that the Central Valley and Diao were grouped together and vice-versa made things a bit frustrating, because people kept mixing up the Central Valley and the Diao, and I fully admit that that added some salt for me because they're very different and it was extremely annoying when people thought otherwise. But I digress. A four-way vote about which region and clan to focus on sounded more reasonable to me, so that we could get the Wang and Central Valley.
But then I *also* understand that that decision would have cluttered stuff up and made it more difficult on @yrsillar to write, and that it's easier to group such things together for votes and in writing, so I guess I can't complain that much in regards to it.
So I'm hoping we get more informed decisions from now on, or that we spend moratorium time discussing both options in full before voting. Or that sometimes, we don't get a vote if it'll just be awkward, like in this case. Like, sometimes I get disappointed when there's no vote, but at the end of the day, I'm here for the story, and if it'd flow better if there's no vote at a juncture for voting sake, I'm okay with that.
Ultimately, I just joined in turn 15, so I don't know the meta problems as well as the grandpas and grandmas of the quest here, or what actually *counts* as a meta problem. I just didn't want one of our only allies to be neglected when the summit was coming up.
This is all just my half-asleep ramblings because I have the unfortunate habit of waking up and reading messages first, so I'm not sure if I'm clearly expressing my thoughts here, but since we're all talking, I thought I'll join in too.
PS: While I struggle to actually do it because, tou know, perceived authority, I do think it's okay to call out Yrsillar if we believe something is not right. Like, he's the author, but at the end of the day, this is an interactive story, and Yrs, like Tsu, is only human so he CAN and WILL make mistakes and forget things. It's our job to notice them and give help and criticism. It just depends on how we go about it and the tone we set.
That being said, I do agree with @AbeoLogos that some votes require more information before we can *actually* vote, so that we can draw some lines before actually voting. Otherwise, it just boils down to speculation, and info is really easy to interpret in many ways.
For example, I think the two turn limit means the vote was for which group we'll focus on, leading up to the summit. Abeo read it as how long we'll be the hero of the hour.
And then the one line of confirmation we got, that this is adjacent to the summit. Now, this can either mean that this works parallel to summit prep or that it's beside the summit prep, which, in that case, means its irrelevant to it.
Now, I understand that some parts is this is genuinely because of the ambiguity of language. I also understand that votes do need to have consequences so we can't always get the information, like with the Caldera v Underground vote, which determined who died (Ruan Shen v Shen Hu), but we'll still actually need more info in some cases, like this vote. Information which we were supposed to get 3 turns ago, but didn't. Like, I was okay because we got confirmation that we'll get it next update, but this shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I also agree that this vote doesn't make sense in some ways. I don't believe that we're dropping one clan forever, just until the summit, but we don't actually have to do so. Or at least, CRX should be here. She wasn't, so we were left to rely on old info that we should focus on the Wang or Meng, but we don't know if she's changed her mind. That's another thing.
And my last gripe about this vote was its binary nature. There were four entities which we wanted to work on: The Diao, Central Valley, The Wang, and The Foundations, at least that was my interpretation of it. The fact that the Central Valley and Diao were grouped together and vice-versa made things a bit frustrating, because people kept mixing up the Central Valley and the Diao, and I fully admit that that added some salt for me because they're very different and it was extremely annoying when people thought otherwise. But I digress. A four-way vote about which region and clan to focus on sounded more reasonable to me, so that we could get the Wang and Central Valley.
But then I *also* understand that that decision would have cluttered stuff up and made it more difficult on @yrsillar to write, and that it's easier to group such things together for votes and in writing, so I guess I can't complain that much in regards to it.
So I'm hoping we get more informed decisions from now on, or that we spend moratorium time discussing both options in full before voting. Or that sometimes, we don't get a vote if it'll just be awkward, like in this case. Like, sometimes I get disappointed when there's no vote, but at the end of the day, I'm here for the story, and if it'd flow better if there's no vote at a juncture for voting sake, I'm okay with that.
Ultimately, I just joined in turn 15, so I don't know the meta problems as well as the grandpas and grandmas of the quest here, or what actually *counts* as a meta problem. I just didn't want one of our only allies to be neglected when the summit was coming up.
This is all just my half-asleep ramblings because I have the unfortunate habit of waking up and reading messages first, so I'm not sure if I'm clearly expressing my thoughts here, but since we're all talking, I thought I'll join in too.
PS: While I struggle to actually do it because, tou know, perceived authority, I do think it's okay to call out Yrsillar if we believe something is not right. Like, he's the author, but at the end of the day, this is an interactive story, and Yrs, like Tsu, is only human so he CAN and WILL make mistakes and forget things. It's our job to notice them and give help and criticism. It just depends on how we go about it and the tone we set.
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-1 Reputation with SV Reactionaries.
I would be deeply surprised if there were any Imperial Reactionaries in the ES at all. What would they be reacting against? By and large imperials are on the ascendant and the Weilu-aligned are on the decline.
We can also be pretty sure that the Diao imperial conservatives lack political power as a different set of choices would have made the Diao major supporters of our diplomatic mission while Imperial Conservatives aren't going to support peaceful barbarian interactions regardless.
Edit: Also the foundation of Shenhua's support isn't going to be a deeply conservative and reactionary clan. The Diao aren't the Imperial version of the Meng, that doesn't make any sense
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Random thoughts:
1. Ling Qi often thinks of female disciples as wearing scandalous clothing because their dresses show more skin than just the hands and the head. She doesn't have the same disapproving reaction to men going bare-chested. Is clothing like that for female cultivators really considered socially scandalous in the Emerald Seas, or is it just Ling Qi's personal trauma that leads her to think that women need to be as covered up as possible?
2. She didn't choose to move to the Golden Fields, but I see an easy way to gain a fuckton of rep there in the future anyway. Zhengui. His Way and arts are tailor-made for burning away the corruption and then renewing the land. Just how big an area will he be able to affect in one go when he's fourth realm? Fifth? Sixth? When he's sufficiently strong Ling Qi could go on a vacation to the Fields once a year and clear up a viscounty's worth of land each time. And when he eventually reaches White...watch out.
1. Ling Qi often thinks of female disciples as wearing scandalous clothing because their dresses show more skin than just the hands and the head. She doesn't have the same disapproving reaction to men going bare-chested. Is clothing like that for female cultivators really considered socially scandalous in the Emerald Seas, or is it just Ling Qi's personal trauma that leads her to think that women need to be as covered up as possible?
2. She didn't choose to move to the Golden Fields, but I see an easy way to gain a fuckton of rep there in the future anyway. Zhengui. His Way and arts are tailor-made for burning away the corruption and then renewing the land. Just how big an area will he be able to affect in one go when he's fourth realm? Fifth? Sixth? When he's sufficiently strong Ling Qi could go on a vacation to the Fields once a year and clear up a viscounty's worth of land each time. And when he eventually reaches White...watch out.
- Location
- Finland
I think it's a yes on that.
Yes, this is Ling Qi's trauma speaking.
Yes, mortal women are expected to be covered pretty much head to toe (most probably don't go quite as far, especially in smaller villages, but in cities it would be a sign of status).
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
1. It's her personal trauma. We'll continue working on it with the Tribulation. She's already made a lot of progress, but there's always MOAR because, you know, trauma.
2. Yeah. I love CRX and the ES, but I wish we took the Gu Tai route (T_TT). Fortunately, there's going to be an imperial tour at *some* point! So we can go visit the GF and help them, for a few of course. Well, we can probably give the Gu a discount, but the rest, nope.
All the faces in this are super expressive good art yes
When it comes to friendships and societal interactions in general etc I feel like she's made a lot of progress. On the romance front though? Far as I can tell she's moved maybe half a meter at most from her starting position (that romantic relationships are always icky and traumatic and one person is inevitably dominated by the other, and sex is evil).
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There's really not much interpretation involved there. If we try to interact with the anybody (but particularly Diao/Central Valley) after the summit, it will be as "the one who arranged that disastrous summit" (note that by "disastrous" I don't mean "failed" - only that nobody will be happy with how it went).
Sure, if we invest in the Diao immediately after the summit, there will be some people who remember, especially if we take care to rub it into their faces. But it won't be dominant like it would've been if we did the smart thing now. And if people refuse to invest in the Diao while we have a good chance, do you really believe we'll invest when we don't have a great opporunity? No, this thread just wants to abandon the Diao entirely. Which - besides the long-term civil war flags - means that when it's time for the Su Ling quest, we will have the most minimal amount of support possible.
We were explicitly told:
- Location
- Washington
It is straight up not our job to be CRX's ambassador to Literally The Entire Province.
Also like, I like Su Ling, I like the fox plot line. I do not like either enough to be making decisions on our political priorities around them. If we go into Su Ling quest with minimal political support that'll be tough but I will not regret a thing.
- Location
- Finland
We are, however, the closest thing she has for a spymaster, and getting eyes, and influence, on Central Valley and Diao would be very valuable.
And unlike Wang, this is kinda time sensitive.
But that's kinda water under the bridge, we voted, one option won, and now we'll see what happens.
And unlike Wang, this is kinda time sensitive.
But that's kinda water under the bridge, we voted, one option won, and now we'll see what happens.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh. She's able to joke about marriage with Wang Chao. She didn't flee when Shi was still interested and wanted a dance. Yeah, she still views relationships as transactional. She's still scared of many forms of intimacy, but she's moving forward, and we have an upcoming tribulation that'll help with it. As long as there's progress, I'm satisfied because, realistic speaking, she's made a lot more progress than most irl people do in two years.
That's two different interpretations based on the info given. You're using that line, I'm using the things following it.
We're focusing on two different parts, and they give different meanings. That's just how language works. It's ambiguous, and both are valid interpretations. That's why context matters, and the words leading up to the vote are about the summit!
And I seriously doubt that people would forget so soon. I think working with the Central Valley and Diao when the Ith-ai plot picks up is perfectly valid and doable.
And those are a lot of absolute states. I don't want to abandon the Diao forever. I want to find out more about them too. But... they're not related to the summit. At all. And since I interpret the vote as something related to the summit, I don't want to focus on them when there's another option available that'll do that, while building stronger ties with an ally we've neglected.
And killing Madame Gray isn't happening for a long, long time. Decades even, if she really is Indigo.
"Gesticulates wildly with a manic look in his eyes."
Be tough? I welcome the challenge. I'd almost forgotten, but then I remembered: This is Xianxia! Going balls to the wall and accomplishing the impossible is a fundamental part of the genre. All this fretting about permanently closing this option or that...bah! I reject such notions. I don't want to get on the good side of only some of the Count clans. Though it may take decades/centuries I want them all! I want Weilu horns, a return to the ways of the Weilu for the whole province with spirits seen as kin instead of slaves, the return of the Horned Lord to his children, for Zhengui to heal the whole of the Golden Fields so the Purifying Sun can finally be reborn, to punch the taste out of the mouth of that upjumped Jungle Weed, etc etc. In ten thousand years I want Ling Qi to be spoken of in the same way characters currently speak of the Fisher, the Conqueror and the Diviner!
Let's have some ambition in here!
"Blinks slowly, takes a deep breath." Well, that got away from me a bit. Meant every word though.
I have every confidence that when we get back to the Central Valley we will do so in a dramatic fashion that yanks wide open a new window.
On another note: I've been going through more side stories, and...
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original - Users' Choice!
First Quest, Forge of Destiny, here Ling Qi stood at the edge of the grass grown cliff and...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
How is it even possible for the Celestial Peaks to have Empresses, when they like their women weak and coddled?
- Location
- United States of America
There are a lot of different forms of strength other than brute brawn. Additionally, appearing weak and coddled doesn't mean one actually is, especially when you need to navigate court intrigues that make vipers blush.
Probably more importantly, though, is that not all women of the peaks will conform to that stereotype, and strength of cultivation allows one to do many things that would elicit frowns otherwise.
- Location
- Washington
We have in fact seen Xiulan's mom. Whatever opinions she has on gender roles she is absolutely not weak or coddled.