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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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The thing is, if we do get it, Void will be just like Chaos, in that it'll be added to our concepts as Void (0/1), with concept XP source to unlock it. Even Persistence, a concept which we'll mostly levelled through votes instead of arts, has a source in WHR. Our other undeveloped concepts also have sources in our arts. Cycles has a source in WHR. Protection has a source in MoSS and WHR.

Void will just be like Courage unless acquiring it changes SNR in some way, and that's not listed in the description of Ripples
 
Xepheria said:
I disagree that Void is going to get cannibalised or subsumed by another concept like Chaos was by Motion - if that's what was intended to happen, then We Are But Ripples shouldn't even be an action at all.

What I think is more likely is that it's distinct enough to stand on its own, clarifying/ making explicit Ling Qi's thoughts on Nothingness and existentialism. It's very nihilist, but the idea that meaning and purpose is something that you yourself create (rather than anything inherent) does resonate with the rest of her concepts and understanding, as well as her role as an artist and musician.
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I'm more thinking long term. As we grow in cultivation past Green Realm more and more concepts will get cannibalized into each other, consolidating into only a few. My thought is that having more that synchronize well is going to potentially be very good when that happens and Void synchs well with several of our existing ones.
 
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Oliver_Twister said:
The thing is, if we do get it, Void will be just like Chaos, in that it'll be added to our concepts as Void (0/1), with concept XP source to unlock it. Even Persistence, a concept which we'll mostly levelled through votes instead of arts, has a source in WHR. Our other undeveloped concepts also have sources in our arts. Cycles has a source in WHR. Protection has a source in MoSS and WHR.

Void will just be like Courage unless acquiring it changes SNR in some way, and that's not listed in the description of Ripples
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I think it's highly likely that SNR becomes a source of Void progress if the concept is obtained. It's literally a key word of the art, and would be a major failure in system design if it didn't.

I wouldn't worry about this at all - Yrs wouldn't make us grab an entirely new art to progress a concept obtained in a different one that isn't even finished. This would be completely backwards.
 
Yeah. But it's also likely that Void will be cannibalized by our other concepts (I suspect Mystery, but can't be sure) as soon as we get it and we won't get any ranks in it.

Edit. My previous comment was referring to this part

Xepheria said:
I disagree that Void is going to get cannibalised or subsumed by another concept like Chaos was by Motion - if that's what was intended to happen, then We Are But Ripples shouldn't even be an action at all.
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Adhoc vote count started by CedeTheBees on Jul 25, 2022 at 1:08 PM, finished with 367 posts and 155 votes.
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Anyone know where to refresh my memory on what the cultivation projects do?
I have no memory about what the ripples does, and can't find it on informative posts.
 
Xepheria said:
I disagree that Void is going to get cannibalised or subsumed by another concept like Chaos was by Motion - if that's what was intended to happen, then We Are But Ripples shouldn't even be an action at all.

What I think is more likely is that it's distinct enough to stand on its own, clarifying/ making explicit Ling Qi's thoughts on Nothingness and existentialism. It's very nihilist, but the idea that meaning and purpose is something that you yourself create (rather than anything inherent) does resonate with the rest of her concepts and understanding, as well as her role as an artist and musician.
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Chaos was distinct enough from Motion as well. Motion just grew faster than Chaos, and so, shanked it for loot.
The concepts have started to imitate the English language, taking whatever they like from other :V
Also, i would like to point out, again, that we already have something working on the existentialism.....
yrsillar said:
Persistence II (1/3): The world is in flux and things last only due to the exertion of will.
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but yeah, nobody tries to paste VOID onto anything we already have, right?
Now on the second point
Xepheria said:
I think it's highly likely that SNR becomes a source of Void progress if the concept is obtained. It's literally a key word of the art, and would be a major failure in system design if it didn't.

I wouldn't worry about this at all - Yrs wouldn't make us grab an entirely new art to progress a concept obtained in a different one that isn't even finished. This would be completely backwards.
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Sure, both PLR and LFWT gave multiple points for their keywords.
But, just like Motion, every concept look at each other and found them appetizing... to different degrees.
Motion and Chaos? go hand in hand.
Void? Lets see, what was brought up for it...
Isolation, because Isolating people into nothingness is scary.
Want, (by me, mostly) because of how often LQ uses the pit/abyss/void that wants to be filled , even if it can never be. And similar sentences.
Creation, because creation defies Void by making stuff (Never mind it already has the same rhyme with Isolation)
End/Endings, Heat dead of the universe.
Mystery, asking the big questions of life, like, why do we do things? where does meaning comes from? and why?
Also, Persistence, is already above.

Like, really, its not a question IF Void gets eaten, but rather, by Which concept?

I can only hope Bastion can be done next turn with grinning wind.

Edit: I apparently forgot mystery, put it there, thanks Oliver_Twister.
 
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Valmond said:
Anyone know where to refresh my memory on what the cultivation projects do?
I have no memory about what the ripples does, and can't find it on informative posts.
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They're available under spoilers in the "Turn 16 Preliminary Vote" post.

Ripples has text as follows:

  • We are but Ripples: In waters deep, under skies far, we bear witness to our own crushing smallness. Where then does meaning rise, in the infinite dark? Advances Isolation and Mystery Projects one step. 40% Chance of acquiring Void concept for your Domain.(0/3)
 
Well then...
TheCount said:
Chaos was distinct enough from Motion as well. Motion just grew faster than Chaos, and so, shanked it for loot.
The concepts have started to imitate the English language, taking whatever they like from other :V
Also, i would like to point out, again, that we already have something working on the existentialism.....

but yeah, nobody tries to paste VOID onto anything we already have, right?
Now on the second point

Sure, both PLR and LFWT gave multiple points for their keywords.
But, just like Motion, every concept look at each other and found them appetizing... to different degrees.
Motion and Chaos? go hand in hand.
Void? Lets see, what was brought up for it...
Isolation, because Isolating people into nothingness is scary.
Want, (by me, mostly) because of how often LQ uses the pit/abyss/void that wants to be filled , even if it can never be. And similar sentences.
Creation, because creation defies Void by making stuff (Never mind it already has the same rhyme with Isolation)
End/Endings, Heat dead of the universe.

Like, really, its not a question IF Void gets eaten, but rather, by Which concept?

I can only hope Bastion can be done next turn with grinning wind.
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And Mystery...don't forget Mystery. I love Mystery.
 
Oliver_Twister said:
Yeah. But it's also likely that Void will be cannibalized by our other concepts (I suspect Mystery, but can't be sure) as soon as we get it and we won't get any ranks in it.

Edit. My previous comment was referring to this part
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Mystery is also the most likely eventual destination for Void, if we get it, imo. It'd basically be Ling Qi going "Voids? Kind of a spook tbqh."

Hmm, how to explain. If you look at Ling Qi's FSS insight, she rejects the ultimate End. And if you look at Isolation, which is a concept that resonates with her extremely deeply, she feels it's something to be desperately undermined. There's a common theme of rejecting the stark and pure in her philosophy, because it's incompatible with a worthwhile life. Even some of her winter meditations have been like this; I remember a scene where she was meditating at the frozen lake site by Zeqing's place and there was a pull of the beautiful serenity of pure Cold/Darkness, but it's not something Ling Qi could step into in full and remain, well, Ling Qi.

Mystery as a concept is oriented around thought and conceptualizations. There's no mystery without an observer to be asking questions. So sliding Void into Mystery is basically saying, yes, Void exists, but not in any way that matters except in the thoughts of people. It also resonates because from where Ling Qi stands true Void is fundamentally unknowable in its furthest reaches to any conscious being. And stuff.

But yeah probably Void doesn't get sucked up into anything for a decent chunk of time. Definitely not right away, cause there's not really a point to it then.
 
Yeah, need to develop it first, Chaos got swallowed because we have two Insights that when combined says "Every action has unknown and unknowable consequences, and things move even where you can't sense them", which is why Chaos got swallowed by Motion so easily. Insights are how your Concepts are leveraged.

As far as Ling Qi is concerned, Chaos is simply the Computation Complexity Problem of a lot of people all moving at the same time in their own directions on their own purposes.

Void here doesn't have that tie in yet.
Its a contemplation of whether anything has fundamental meaning at all.

If we examine our current Insights, the closest are:
-"There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think and grow until the very end." <- Basically, to extend the Ripple metaphor, the transient motion upon the surface is what matters. When the ripples stop then all that is left is the blank waters again. Void-as-canvas.

-"It is the artist's duty to question. The trickster's role to make fools of the mighty. Hold the mirror to history and tradition, and reveal their absurdities." <- Look at what things are deep down fundamentally. Fundamentally, everything is nothing. Void-as-mirror/weapon.

Neither are really a good fit as is, if you just jammed it in, it'd be rather hamfisted.
 
In regards to Void, the one thing I'm fairly certain of is that it won't end up in isolation. For Ling Qi, isolation is the cold streets of a city, surrounded by people and yet still utterly alone. The presence of people and things doesn't lessen isolation, and so also the absence wouldn't strengthen it either.

While I'd like to speculate on the other concepts that it could be assimilated by or merge with, without knowing the actual wording, and how Ling Qi understands the concept of Void, it would just be wild speculation.

So of course, I'm going to do it anyway!
  • Mystery: the most likely, imo. Void is the vast, unknowable expanse, which meshes well with mystery.
  • Persistence: "things last only due to the exertion of will" implies that the default state would be an empty void, and that's a connection. It's a connection via opposites though, so ultimately I think it's unlikely.
  • Endings: While void and ending are closely connected, Our current understand is about how it's the journey that's important. I don't think that actually stops it from being absorbed though: The end is void, so it's the journey that's important.
  • Causality: both are pretty abstract, and time and space are connected irl. It's a possibility!
  • Freedom: Only in the void can one be truly free. Although our current insight is that choosing to be blind doesn't dull freedom, so mixing with void would be a bit of an about face.
 
Tamwin5 said:
In regards to Void, the one thing I'm fairly certain of is that it won't end up in isolation. For Ling Qi, isolation is the cold streets of a city, surrounded by people and yet still utterly alone. The presence of people and things doesn't lessen isolation, and so also the absence wouldn't strengthen it either.
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I think you're taking Void too literally here. As a concept, Void is not simply the 'absence of people and things' and might easily eventually fit into Isolation depending on the direction Ling Qi develops it in (the Void as an absence of connection is a valid conceptual framework and would slot right in to Isolation, for example). It might also fall under any of the others you list, mind you, if it goes a different direction but dismissing Isolation is premature.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I think you're taking Void too literally here. As a concept, Void is not simply the 'absence of people and things' and might easily eventually fit into Isolation depending on the direction Ling Qi develops it in (the Void as an absence of connection is a valid conceptual framework and would slot right in to Isolation, for example). It might also fall under any of the others you list, mind you, if it goes a different direction but dismissing Isolation is premature.
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I think one of the strongest meanings of Void we have, which also ties into what Void means in SNR, is an emptiness that yearns to be filled. Ling Qi's Darkness has always been likened to the desire for light, her Cold the want for warmth, her Isolation the need for connection, and Void is the same for space. Like the Black Mirror tech devours attacks against us, Void is another perspective on Ling Qi's insatiable Want. At the heart of Ling Qi is a dark, cold, lonely void that yearns to be filled but might never be truly satisfied, and cultivationwise I think there's a lot of cool things you can do with concepts like that.

With FSS being partially about that same hunger, as Zeqing's being was her ceaseless hunger for the warmth of others, now that we're doing FSS+ having a moment to think about that emptiness and the yearning that comes from it will probably be healthy.
 
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