Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I feel like investing in finishers encourages you to try to shorten the fight as much as possible so you get to the finisher before something unexpected comes up. That's really not LQ's style. She's much more about slowly wearing you down with misfortunes.

Of course this gets in the way of how Yrsillar likes to end fights with some sort of climactic moment instead of the opponent eventually petering out. However the new version of Joyous Toast means that we can potentially counter someone's last, desperate finisher to end a fight instead.

There's also something to be said for a technique based on the false warmth of hypothermia: you know that you are in trouble but your body has a rough time understanding how and why that is the case. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of this being a significant part of our arsenal but, if we want one, this could probably make for a good foundation.
 
A question for Ppl who understand the quest system: I think we only have one Finisher technique and that's from an old Art FSS. Any idea which art will give us a new Finisher technique?
As a control cultivator, Ling Qi doesn't really need more than 1, as her role on the battlefield is to lock down and control territory. More finishers would be useful, but they aren't necessary, and since the plan is to have Ling Qi make a successor art to Frozen Soul Serenade, she'll have the one needed when she needs it, so there's not much point to trying to get more. If one of her other control arts like Beast King's Savage Dirge happens to have a finisher as it levels that just provides potential utility in avoiding anti-finishers, or even just forcing the opponent to use them on Ling Qi's finishers rather than using them to eat an Ally's finisher boosted by Lunatic Crescendo.

I would argue that it would further her role to pick up at least one more anti-finisher (possibly by making a successor to Thousand Rings Fortress later), preferably something that can shield allies at range, as while Thousand-Year Impenetrable Mist is a group anti-finisher, it also require Ling Qi be directly in the line of fire. Alternatively advancing the amount of territory Ling Qi can control or improving her control from disruption on the battlefield could be helpful for unit cohesion as Gan should have another group Anti-Finisher himself, being a commander.
 
I do enjoy the lack of finishers.
Ling Qi is more about slowly grinding down those who would oppose her, and then moving on.
Instead of a finisher, Ling Qi needs anti finishers, abilities that stop others from taking her down in a desperation move.
 
Well we have no lack of anti-finishers. We have thousand year impenetrable mist, Black Mirror and West wind Step. Three very high quality anti-finishers. Our spirits also have finishers which is nice. Zhengui has his boom which is an extremely powerful AOE finisher and Hanyi can also use CtE.
 
Yep, we're pretty solid.
Need to keep improving what we have, but not really need anything new, except to eventually replace the things we already have.
 
Lack of finishers means that Ling Qi can be stuck fighting someone she could have already defeated otherwise, meaning she's less effective overall. Like how in 2nd thunderdome Meizhen was stuck fighting Zihao for a while because she didn't have enough punching power to overcome his turtle style quickly.

Finishers might not be used often because they really don't feel like Ling Qi's theme but she should have one at the ready all the same.
 
Lack of finishers means that Ling Qi can be stuck fighting someone she could have already defeated otherwise, meaning she's less effective overall. Like how in 2nd thunderdome Meizhen was stuck fighting Zihao for a while because she didn't have enough punching power to overcome his turtle style quickly.

Finishers might not be used often because they really don't feel like Ling Qi's theme but she should have one at the ready all the same.
I don't agree. For a duelist like Ji Rong, that would be an accurate assessment as that kind of archetype is very much defined by the ability to fight peers quickly (win or lose). Ling Qi is a control cultivator specced for attrition that uses many defensive layers to prevent the disruption of her control, the longer a fight goes before she uses her finisher(s), the more effective they become. Further her attrition specialization means that her optimum use is dropping into enemy formations and working to break buff chains alongside a defensive duelist to stall out enemy heavies that would risk overwhelming her; as such Ling Qi only needs one or two finishers, one for hitting groups so as to do as much damage to any art based infrastructure (buff chains, martial formations), and one for hitting single targets (so that she can threaten duelists that close on her).

As it currently stands Ling Qi only really needs a new group finisher (since integrating Forgotten Vale Melody into her domain had her lose her Traveler's End, which would count in this context), after that emphasis should either be to expand how much territory can can lock down, or improve the difficulty in knocking her off of her controlled territory, as after a certain point advancing her attrition becomes counter productive, and Ling Qi's way too deep into cultivation to change her build into a more traditional offensive build.
 
So, Dragon Mama gave the firstie a stylish haircut? Such fashion sense.

Fashionable indeed. Was aiming for kinda a Lan Lan Eleanor Sung vibe.

At LQ's birthday party aunty Xin was ... well Aunty Xin, the ape was an ape and ZQ was a ghost. But Qingshe was "an impossibly beautiful woman swathed in a many layered deep azure gown" emitting "a sort of mild, casual disdain."
I see Qingshe as a Lan Lan style mean girl. And like Lan Lan after she confirmed LQ wasn't after her man, Qingshe decides to fix the lil ragamuffin's unbecoming hair.
 
Lack of finishers means that Ling Qi can be stuck fighting someone she could have already defeated otherwise, meaning she's less effective overall. Like how in 2nd thunderdome Meizhen was stuck fighting Zihao for a while because she didn't have enough punching power to overcome his turtle style quickly.

Finishers might not be used often because they really don't feel like Ling Qi's theme but she should have one at the ready all the same.

On an abstract level, I would prefer LQ to outright not be able to do a thing that conflicts with her nature than her being able to it poorly in the rare occasion that she needs to. The latter is a much weaker thematic statement and will inevitably take up narrative space demonstrating her relative lack of ability.

If that lack is a problem it makes more sense to try to explore how we can overcome the challenge in a more harmonious way. She already has a variety of options:
1. Just leave. It is extremely difficult to force LQ to fight you if she doesn't want to and she can fairly easily take a number of allies with her
2. Lean on her allies. Hanyi and Zhengui are likely to have strong finishers due to their natures.
3. Isolate the tough opponent so they can't contribute to the fight.

There are a few more possibilities that, while she can't do them now, are good options to develop in the future
4. Banish the enemy somewhere where they are no longer relevant
5. Dispel the troublesome effects that the enemy can generate

as such Ling Qi only needs one or two finishers, one for hitting groups so as to do as much damage to any art based infrastructure (buff chains, martial formations), and one for hitting single targets (so that she can threaten duelists that close on her).

I don't think either of those situations requires a finisher. Dispels and Isolations should work fine to defeat art-based infrastructure while being much more in theme and there are plenty of ways to prevent an enemy from wanting to engage with you.
 
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I don't agree. For a duelist like Ji Rong, that would be an accurate assessment as that kind of archetype is very much defined by the ability to fight peers quickly (win or lose). Ling Qi is a control cultivator specced for attrition that uses many defensive layers to prevent the disruption of her control, the longer a fight goes before she uses her finisher(s), the more effective they become.

Imagine that there are two battlefields that Ling Qi can fight at, happening at the same time. If she can finish one fight quickly, she can use her superlative speed to get to the other battlefield in time and make an impact there. If she can't finish her fight quickly, she's either stuck or she retreats, allowing her opponents from the first battlefield to choose where and when they attack.

On an abstract level, I would prefer LQ to outright not be able to do a thing that conflicts with her nature than her being able to it poorly in the rare occasion that she needs to. The latter is a much weaker thematic statement and will inevitably take up narrative space demonstrating her relative lack of ability.

I can't argue with the "I prefer this" argument, but I'll just say that for me, the times Ling Qi used Call to Ending after a long, grueling fight, were very impactful and thematically apropriate. It didn't feel to me like it was taking narrative space that could be used for something better with either BINO or Ji Rong, for example.
 
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Imagine that there are two battlefields that Ling Qi can fight at, happening at the same time. If she can finish one fight quickly, she can use her superlative speed to get to the other battlefield in time and make an impact there. If she can't finish her fight quickly, she's either stuck or she allows her opponents from the first battlefield to choose where and when they attack.
With PLR she can force two fights into one. Just bring one into the other.

While I agree that having a finisher is important, it is far less important for Ling Qi.
 
From a narrative standpoint, a finisher is important to finish fights that go too long, and do so in a more dramatic way than 'the enemy slowly dies down to attrition. From a tactical standpoint, sometimes you need a lot of power at once, and it also works well to weaken the opponent than strike a finishing blow. From a thematic standpoint, it works well as the ending that finally comes, or similtar things, at the end of the attrition.

And anyway, I think we can all agree that we need to expand the offensive capabilities of LQ, with finishers or otherwise
 
I can't argue with the "I prefer this" argument, but I'll just say that for me, the times Ling Qi used Call to Ending after a long, grueling fight, were very impactful and thematically apropriate. It didn't feel to me like it was taking narrative space that could be used for something better with either BINO or Ji Rong, for example.

CtE is a very high quality finisher, however it has shown some of its flaws with in encounters like with Hui Peng. Additionally I think "desperate final attack fails, leaving them in despair" is a more powerful ending for her fights than a finisher. We saw that with both the Ji Rong rematch (with the finisher hitting after Ji Rong was already defeated and thus awkward) and as well as with Wellboy in the tournament.
 
however it has shown some of its flaws with in encounters like with Hui Peng

Are you really bringing Ling Qi's fight against corpse immortal 4th realm as evidence? Hui Peng bitchslapped Black Mirror -our single most potent defence tech- like nothing; the only arts that really worked on him were social ones.

Additionally I think "desperate final attack fails, leaving them in despair" is a more powerful ending for her fights than a finisher. We saw that with both the Ji Rong rematch (with the finisher hitting after Ji Rong was already defeated and thus awkward) and as well as with Wellboy in the tournament.

For me it feels awkward and narratively unsatisfying to imagine Ling Qi nope-ing her opponents' final attack and then... continuing to play her flute as normal instead of capitalazing on it in a drammatic fashion. But to each their own, I guess.
 
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Are you really bringing Ling Qi's fight against corpse immortal 4th realm as evidence? Hui Peng bitchslapped Black Mirror -our single most potent defence tech- like nothing; the only arts that really worked on him were social ones.

We also repeatedly used HR and CtE. This was a big part of the damage we did to him. It was also an awkward mess because we were chaining finishers. I'd rather have fewer fights work like that but I see that sort of damage race as an inherent part of how finishers work.

For me it feels awkward and narratively unsatisfying to imagine Ling Qi nope-ing her opponents' final attack and then... continuing to play her flute as normal instead of capitalazing on it in a drammatic fashion. But to each their own, I guess.

If its a "final attack", why is the fight continuing after it gets used? We know that our techniques can further punish someone for failing. Health works on narrative rules now, Yrs can easily say that they run out after their desperate last stand, especially if we have a tech that justifies it like a more developed Echoes of Absolute Winter.

I see the "finisher" approach against Ji Rong's rematch to be to try to race him, with whoever gets their finisher off first winning. The "anti-finisher" approach is to take everything he can throw at us and crush the resistance out of him as each fails in turn. The rematch's finale was awkward because, after we had already won, we nonetheless had to hit him again because we had a finisher.
 
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And anyway, I think we can all agree that we need to expand the offensive capabilities of LQ, with finishers or otherwise
Not at all. What we need is more usable CC and more engaging defensive support play.

We don't need more different ways to apply damage to people. We already have a lot of those. How many attacks does the typical shounen character have? Far less than we do!

We should be thinking about how to make fights more interesting with the techniques we have, not gunning for more tech bloat.
 
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Not at all. What we need is more usable CC and more engaging defensive support play.

We don't need more different ways to apply damage to people. We already have a lot of those. How many attacks does the typical shounen character have? Far less than we do!

We should be thinking about how to make fights more interesting with the techniques we have, not gunning for more tech bloat.
Hey. Hey. If you want useable CC I've got something for you. Bear Paw!

Once again the tree offers solutions to all of our problems! Remember that for the next plan vote! Vote Tree!
 
Ling Qi CAN use finishers, but her entire build is structured around control. She only ever really needed two finishers, for type coverage so she can't be noped by a No Melee/Music/Cold ban, more than that is just ineffectively trying to beat a duelist at being a duelist.

If there are two fields Ling Qi needs to fight on, as a controller her strategy should be to make two fields into one large field.
 
Turn 13: 5-2
Dice rolled=45 Success
A question about the Jing was on the tip of her tongue before Ling Qi reconsidered. While Xuan Shi would be more confident speaking about and praising his clan, and she would like to know more about the Dukes of Jin, was this really the best time for it? She could get that information anytime.

Her goal right now was to ingratiate Wang Chao with Xuan Shi and vice versa. Wang Chao needed more prominent connections, Xuan Shi needed more friends, and she wanted her acquaintances to be happy.

"What was it you were saying about convergent development?" Ling Qi asked. "I'm not very familiar with the more advanced fields of formations."

"Fortress Formations are a different school from vehicle formations," Xuan Shi said, turning his gaze away from the Jin.

"They've got some common points," Wang Chao said, nodding sagely. Both are assembled from smaller discrete parts, which must be arranged in the proper patterns to function as a whole."

"...Yes," Xuan Shi agreed. "A parallel not often explored. Your clan has solved the issue of the Tribulation of Earth's Law on land vehicles?"

"The what now?" Wang Chao said. "Oh, I don't rightly know, just something I've heard talked about."

Ling Qi saw Xuan Shi frowning behind his collar. "I admit, I'm not familiar either, but even if the higher theory is beyond us, talking about what might be done with such projects is interesting. You said you were working off inspiration, what was it?"

Xuan Shi didn't reply right away, drumming his fingers on his armrest. "The point at which crew enhancing and hull enhancing arrays meet. Both are complex and require processing of information far beyond the usual. It was my thought then that it might be possible to build a hull around a man, and achieve higher performance."

"Crew Enhancing arrays?" Wang Chao said with a frown."Like a foreman's arts?"

"Of a kind," Xuan Shi replied. "Though these are of a more mechanical nature."

"How might this work? A laborer,or a sailor, would lack the qi and meridians to take advantage of such things, they would be trapped in their 'hull'," Wang Chao said with a frown.

"As This one said, a work in progress," Xuan Shi said with a small shrug. "The people of the Savage Seas are not prolific and our lands are not spacious, we must find measures to maintain parity as other grow."

"Never enough people to do all the work," Wang Chao said. "Yes, this is a problem of the Wang as well. Many have tried to sell us on construct workforces,but the cost is too high, a useful work puppet drinks stones like water."

"It is this ones hope to enhance the individual rather than replace them, that two men of the early realms might do the work of three, or even mortals made useful in the lowest of cultivator labors," Xuan Shi said, looking back to the tests. "With such conditions, even this one might be able to attain a crew and commission."

"Well I don't know about that, but if you manage, I'd bet the Elder's would be happy to purchase as many as you could make!" Wang Chao laughed, only to shrink into his seat a bit as a number of older cultivators shot them stern looks.

Xuan Shi chuckled. "Sir Wang is too generous. The fancies sketched in a craftsmen's workshop are only that."

Ling Qi listened with half an ear as the two of them continued to talk. It looked like things were going as she'd hoped. She'd worried that if Xuan Shi saw Wang Chao's lack of technical understanding, he would think himself merely humored. Instead, the initial awkwardness was past and now they were talking comfortably, even if Wang Chao occasionally had to pause and scrunch up his face in thought to decipher some turn of phrase by Xuan Shi.

She turned a fraction of her attention to the tests themselves. She watched the disciples mixing ingredients, etching arrays and inscribing characters. It was a little admirable, such dedication, it made her feel a little bad for her own lackadaisical approach to the art.

"Not your thing," Sixiang chuckled. "Besides I don't think you'd have landed where you are without being a little freeform."

She supposed so. She was looking forward to studying the compass and the ring gates more closely, now that she had some more experience with Liminal interfaces. Ling Qi scanned the workstations, pausing as her eyes fell on a face she recognized. In the back was Liu Xin, Xiao Fen's friend from the outer sect. She had said he was a craftsmen hadn't she.

She glanced over his work, his elixir was simmering, the paper ward tags drying, and his pill furnace simmering. Right now he was squinting down at a dagger blade with an inscribing tool. It looked to her like he was in line to finish the projects in the time limit.

"Miss Ling, what do you think?" Wang Chao asked.

Ling Qi paused a moment, letting Sixiang pull up the memory of the last few seconds in her mind to remind her of what had been said. "If my schedule allows, I wouldn't be against it. Something of a break from formality would be welcome."

He'd suggested an informal get together outside the tournament grounds to have a small spar.
"I have no particular duties, beyond attending the Duchess' appearances," Xuan Shi mused.

"Her grace intends a gathering tonight, and on the evening before the finals," Ling Qi said. "Maybe I can manage a few hours tomorrow afternoon."

"Great," Wang Chao said, looking pleased with himself. "But let's see how our juniors are doing, I don't want to be too rude."

Ling Qi struggled, for just a moment, to keep a straight face as they turned their attention back to the testing.

"Mm, well it's a bit dull watching other people work," Sixiang mused. "So what do you think of this little project here. Mr. Boulder's got his foot in the door. He's sincere enough."

Ling Qi thought that this was the end of her direct role. Introducing the two of them and smoothing over an initial misunderstanding were one thing, but she remembered what Xuan Shi had said before as well. She was in the end just his friend, not a parent or caretaker. It would be insulting to meddle too much.

"Ah look at you being boring and sensible," Sixiang huffed. "Gotta watch for funny business though."

Ling Qi would of course mediate where she could, that was acceptable for a mutual friend.

They spoke less for the rest of the test, here and there Wang Chao would prod at Xuan Shi for an explanation for something he saw the examinees doing, and although he was initially reticent, Wang Chao's easy acceptance and praise for his explanations seemed to make it hard for him to maintain that, especially when Wang Chao very occasionally came up with some insight on practical applications of the things Xuan Shi spoke of. Ling Qi kept herself to small comments here and there when things trailed off or got awkward.

Their conversation dropped entirely when the test came to its end and it was time for Elder Su to do the judging. This was a little more interesting, listening to the Elder critique and grade the products of each disciple. By the end, about two thirds of the test entrants had been whittled away. Liu Xin was among those who passed thankfully. As stoic as she was, Ling Qi thought Xiao Fen would be a little upset if he failed.

The Jin scion passed as well of course. When she heard his name from Elder Su, she filed away the name Jin Tae.She had a feeling she'd see him again sooner or later. Members of ducal houses were never irrelevant.

And with that, the preliminary tests for the crafting tournament were finished.

"I can't say I'm unhappy to see the tests done," Wang Chao said, stretching his arms overhead as they made their way out.

Ling Qi smiled, covering her mouth with her sleeve. "But sir Wang, I had thought you were eager to observe."

"Well, I mean-" Wang Chao said, scratching the back of his head and glancing toward Xuan Shi.

Xuan Shi chuckled. "This one appreciates the consideration sir Wang, but will admit that the conversation of peers was more interesting. The presentation of personal projects is the true draw."

Wang Chao squinted at both of them over his shoulder and let out a harrumph. "Hmph, I'd not think you the type for japes Miss Ling."

"Only now and then," she said soothingly. "Besides, it was a good venue to make an acquaintance, wasn't it Xuan Shi?"

"Sir Wang's company was enough. This one is glad to be invited to thy shoal," Xuan Shi replied.

Wang Chao puffed up a bit at the praise. "No worries. I'm glad to include such an intelligent fellow as yourself Sir Xuan! It's not all grunting warriors in my entourage."

"I should hope not," Ling Qi said lightly, as they left the Sect pagoda and entered the main plaza, descending the steps

"Miss Ling's elegance is without question of course," Wang Chao chuckled. "Ah, that does remind me, I'd intended to introduce you to my older sister Wang Lian, like you'd asked, but she-"

"Was kept late in deliberations with our Father. I still heard your message Chao."

Ling Qi stopped looking toward the source of the voice. There she saw a stout woman with sun darkened skin and dark brown hair tied back in a severe bun. She wore a dark blue gown with a somewhat mannish cut, embroidered with stylized mountains and whorling clouds. Ling Qi could see the resemblance to Wang Chao in the color of her eyes and the general bulk of her frame, although like her brother, she was shorter than Ling Qi by nearly a head.

"Oh, sister Lian!" Wang Chao said, his expression brightening up."I'd been concerned! This is Lady Ling. We've built quite a little court!"

"Your letters said as much," the older woman said, giving Ling Qi an assessing look. She looked to be in her mid twenties or so, but as a cultivator of the fourth realm that was nearly meaningless.

Beside her Xuan Shi, shifted from foot to foot, clearly feeling out of place.

"Well, allow me to borrow her for a moment, Chao," Wang Lian said tersely. She glanced to Xuan Shi and lowered her head slightly. "Sir Xuan, I appreciate your keeping my brother company."

"It is nothing, Lady Wang," Xuan Shi said, offering a short bow of his own.

Ling Qi turned and murmured a temporary farewell to Wang Chao and Xuan Shi

"Thank you for your time lady Wang," Ling Qi said as they stepped away, moving toward the stairs which descended the plaza.

"It's a small enough thing, considering how Chao's fortune's have improved this year," Wang Lian said. "Let it be said that I do not have much time right now. I merely wished to make my greetings. Deeper talks will have to wait until after the Duchess' arrival tonight."

"I see," Ling Qi said. "I understand if I am not the highest priority."

"It's not that, Father has been tapped by the Matriarch to reinforce local security," Wang Lian said. "I am assisting him."

Ling Qi hummed in reply. That… did make some sense. She had dismissed the idea thinking that attacking such a concentration of high levels impossibly foolish, but even a disruption of the event could have some effect on morale, couldn't it?

"So, I am Wang Lian, third daughter of the Clan Head of Wang, you are Baroness Ling, who has provided my little brother with a great deal of assistance. You are also the retainer to the heiress of Cai, who has taken on a project many say is beyond her. What is it you want from the Wang Clan, Baroness? Our building expertise, our support in word, the backing of our warriors?"

"Any or all of those things would be most welcome," Ling Qi replied carefully. "But I do not want to overstep myself."

Wang Lian nodded, her arms folded behind her back as she walked. "Yes, a favor for a favor is most fair. So tell me what sort of aid you seek."

In the near future, Ling Qi and Cai Renxiang will be striking out into the Wall to begin preparing what will one day be their fief and the neutral meeting grounds. To that end you will have quite a few rolls in your future, this is your first chance to begin accumulating bonuses to those. Further Wang interactions may increase or decrease these still.

[] Infrastructure Support (+15 bonus to construction rolls)
[] Military Support (+10 to combat rolls)
[] Political Support (+10 material acquisition rolls)
 
A friend for the turtle boy... Thanks a lot for the great update Yrsillar!! ♥️️

[X] Infrastructure Support (+15 bonus to construction rolls)

Minmaxers for the win!!
 
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I think I'm leaning towards infrastructure rolls, because I wouldn't put it past Shenhua to be stingy with the material support "to see how far we can stretch resources." Political support won't be a factor until we are more grounded into our fief and reach cyan.
 
[] Infrastructure Support (+15 bonus to construction rolls)

We can get better materials from the Bao. Construction is these guys' whole thing.
 
[X] Infrastructure Support (+15 bonus to construction rolls)

The Wang are the southernmost province of the Emerald Sea, and as such will be the closest to the Confederation, if we wish to establish economic and diplomatic ties is my belief that the infrastructure is the most important aspect
 
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