Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Here's my thoughts on the distribution of the first hundred common cultivators for our fief:
10 Guards
10 Ling Household attendants (bureaucrats, researchers, and other misc tasks)
5 Hanyi attendants (being an idol takes a lot of support staff)
30 Farmers or Miners (Farmers are also Zhengui attendants.)
40 Crafters
5 Scout/Priests

With levies being drawn from the the farmers, miners, and crafters (ie 70% of the population). The distribution of miners vs farmers depends on the natural resources of our fief, though I imagine farmers will be the majority of that given Zhengui's nature.

Hanyi's needs won't grow with our fief population, so that will proportionally shrink over time. Yu Nuan might need some assistants for herding, I'm not sure. However I can't imagine she wants that many. Most growth will be in additional guards, farmers, and crafter but probably keeping about the same proportions. Still, more Ling household attendants and scout/priests wouldn't go amiss.

Defending against an actual attack will involve us raising levies, which means that we'd have 80 combatants to throw at a problem. The purpose of the 10 guards and 5 scout/priests is to make sure problems don't surprise us and to solve minor problems without our intervention. Additionally, while not going out of their way to fight stuff, all cultivators can still fight and are expected to help deal with threats if directed to by a guard. Thus the guards might be able to throw 40 bodies at a problem in the fields, though I would expect them to get permission from us first.

I don't actually expect yrs to care about the details of this, but I think its interesting to think about the demographics.
Personally the number of craftsmen seem high. I would half it and put in 20 shepherds. Zhengui might be able to make farms work, but like Nuan Yu said, a lot of our land is going to be only good for grazing. At least to start.
 
Here's my thoughts on the distribution of the first hundred common cultivators for our fief:
10 Guards
10 Ling Household attendants (bureaucrats, researchers, and other misc tasks)
5 Hanyi attendants (being an idol takes a lot of support staff)
30 Farmers or Miners (Farmers are also Zhengui attendants.)
40 Crafters
5 Scout/Priests

With levies being drawn from the the farmers, miners, and crafters (ie 70% of the population). The distribution of miners vs farmers depends on the natural resources of our fief, though I imagine farmers will be the majority of that given Zhengui's nature.

Hanyi's needs won't grow with our fief population, so that will proportionally shrink over time. Yu Nuan might need some assistants for herding, I'm not sure. However I can't imagine she wants that many. Most growth will be in additional guards, farmers, and crafter but probably keeping about the same proportions. Still, more Ling household attendants and scout/priests wouldn't go amiss.

Defending against an actual attack will involve us raising levies, which means that we'd have 80 combatants to throw at a problem. The purpose of the 10 guards and 5 scout/priests is to make sure problems don't surprise us and to solve minor problems without our intervention. Additionally, while not going out of their way to fight stuff, all cultivators can still fight and are expected to help deal with threats if directed to by a guard. Thus the guards might be able to throw 40 bodies at a problem in the fields, though I would expect them to get permission from us first.

I don't actually expect yrs to care about the details of this, but I think its interesting to think about the demographics.
This entirely depends on what Ling Qi's fief is. If she has a city, than 40 craftspeople are necessary to ensure the city is profitable enough to secure goods they can't easily get. If she holds a fort instead, than building a strong economic base is unnecessary as the city will be responsible for that, and you can swap the numbers of guards and crafters.
 
100% agree!!

Besides, wouldn't "Mountain Rangers" be better than Scout/Priests?

I was thinking of them as people that go out to the various powerful spirits in the area that we already have some kind of agreement with and make sure that
1. The spirits' concerns are addressed
2. We get warned of anything they know is coming
3. We can ask the spirits for help on a timely basis.

A Barony is pretty small but much of it is going to be wilderness.
 
Turn 13: 5-3
"I should think the answer is obvious then," Ling Qi said. "The renown of the Wang clan is known far and wide."

Wang Lian nodded once. "Good, I had hoped you would choose that."

Ling Qi was silent as they began to descend the many steps which lead to the foot of the mountain, carved alongside the wide road made for carriages. "Will there be trouble, you think? It's likely that what her grace claims, what we build will abut Wang lands."

"It will be good for her grace to take more for the Cai," Wang Lian replied. "Too much of the Hui land was divided. As for the Wang clan, do not concern yourself. It will be a millennia before we can expand."

"Why is that, if you don't mind the question," Ling Qi asked. "It seems such an uncommon attitude."

"We do not have the men to hold more," Wang Lian replied shortly.

"I do not think that is the whole reason," Ling Qi said quietly. "Those with power are rarely content with what they have."

She worried for a moment that she had overstepped herself when Wang Lian did not reply, and had begun to formulate an apology when she saw the older woman's shoulder's shaking. Not with anger, but quiet laughter.

"I forget already, what it is like to be young. There is more to ambition than lifting larger weights, killing more foes, and painting maps," Wang Lian chuckled. "Of course we want more, but why should we need to go out and conquer for that?"

"I overstepped myself," Ling Qi said. "I apologize, I simply want to better understand the Wang Clan's thinking."

Wang Lian's humor faded as they paused on a landing that interrupted the steps. It was a shaded nook under the shade of a pair of trees with a stone bench beneath them. "You know no doubt that our matriarch was an architect in the service of the Hui before she joined her Grace's rebellion. But I think you do not understand. Do you know of the practice we have in our clan for those who will achieve the higher realms?"

"I do not," Ling Qi admitted, curious.

"Before we depart to find our first Names, and set the foundations of our Way, we are brought before the Matriarch," Wang Lian said, her eyes drifting shut. "There we are shown her vision. I can't describe it too you, not fully, but it is the vision of a far greater future, of teeming cities carved into the mountains, stretching over the rivers, filling the forests, not in the rigid imperial style, or the outdated ways of the past, something that is both of them, made better in the fusion. People are the engines of prosperity and growth. Where they gather they sharpen one another, and greater heights are reached. So much of that has been wasted in the Emerald Seas, pointlessly grabbing at lands when we had scarcely made use of what we had."

She spoke with absolute confidence, and for a moment, Ling Qi felt a shadow in her mind the silhouette of a mountain gleaming with the lights of a city from top to bottom, spilling out into the gentle hills and valleys at its foot, following the natural lines of the land.

"Dreams by any other name," Sixiang chuckled.

"We build Miss Ling, and there is already so much of the Emerald Seas to be built yet," Wang Lian finished.

"That is why you take in Cloud Nomads I suppose," Ling Qi said. "Someone must fill those cities, and few wish to come so far south."

"Nomads are human," Wang Lian grunted. "We may be called fools for that, but it is true. A man is a man, he may be valorous or cowardly, cruel or kind. The young and the willing can be taught the proper ways of living and cultivation, we can take their strengths for ourselves. It is as simple as that. You're White Sky seems to understand that. A hopeful thing."

"I understand," Ling Qi said as they resumed walking.

"Perhaps you do, but my time is running short," Wang Lian said. "Is there anything else you wish to speak to me about?"

Ling Qi mulled it over in her head for a moment, a brief internal consultation with Sixiang, whose focus was on guiding her manner in the conversation. They agreed that Wang Lian's mood was good. "I have some curiosity about the Black Lotus pass, what is the trouble there?"

"Besides it being a nest of the unquiet dead you mean?" Wang Lian harrumphed. "Thrice looted, first by Ogodei, then by the desperate of the resisting warriors Yuan had gathered, and then by the vultures in the war's aftermath. It is no wonder that the dead there are enraged."

"Sect Head Yuan would do such a thing?" Ling Qi said, startled.

Wang Lian grimaced. "I do not mean him ill, and his wife was Li beside. If any had a claim it is her and by extension him. But war does not leave the time for proper mourning and purification rites and the dead do not understand extenuating circumstances."

"I see," Ling Qi said, mulling that over. "I had come to understand that the problem was not just the expense of the exorcism needed."

"It was considered Hui land after Ogodei," Wang Lian said. "After that ceased to mean a thing there were some... squabbles. The Diao and the Wang alike both claim some legacy of the Li through marriages. Ours is the better, the Matriarch's second cousin had a Li Grandfather. The Diao need to go back some four generations to find theirs. It is not worth a great conflict, but one cannot simply abandon a point of pride either."

Ling Qi hummed to herself. She felt an unpleasant aching. If they truly claimed the Li as kin, surely they would want them laid to proper rest. It took some effort to stop herself from saying that. "Thank you for your explanation, Lady Wang."

The older woman gave her a side eyed look, but simply grunted in the affirmative if she wondered at Ling Qi's goals, she didn't voice her questions. They stayed there on the stairs a moment longer before Wang Lian spoke again.

"My time is running short, but for now I have a question for you Baroness."

"I will answer as well as I can," Ling Qi said politely

"What are your intentions toward my brother?" Wang Lian asked, not looking at her.

Ling Qi blinked, Sixiang wheezed. "He is a dependable ally and no more, Even if I had an interest, I would not presume above my station," Ling Qi said, her words rushed.

"Hmph, the Bao do not see your station that way," Wang Lian huffed. "A shame, nonetheless. Chao is a simple man, he needs a cannier sort at his side, and the Cai would not have taken you if you were the wrong sort of canny. But I am not in the habit of pushing these things. I don't suppose you've noticed him showing an interest elsewhere?"

Ling Qi did her best not to seem off balance. "...Not particularly no, maybe Alingge?" Ling Qi said. "He was eager to include her in things at least."

The older woman squinted into the distance. "The girl from the old tribes in Luo lands? Hmph, my little brother is odd. I'll have time to observe for myself. I'm sure you've noticed Chao is not good at hiding things."

"I have sought not to take advantage," Ling Qi said carefully.

"Of course you haven't," Wang Lian said without inflection. "Regardless, I need to take my leave now. I look forward to speaking in detail on your plans later, Baroness."

LIng Qi bowed her head as the woman beside her lost definition, stilling and then then losing color, becoming no more than a pillar of featureless earth. Even that then broke down, dissolving into a cloud of drifting dust. Ling Qi raised her sleeve, shielding her mouth and nose as it disappeared.
"Why in the world does that sort of thing keep coming up?" Ling Qi said irritably.

"Cause it's a big part of the human experience I gather," Sixiang said dryly. "Honestly, we gotta talk sometime, Ling Qi."

"This isn't the time for it," Ling Qi deflected.

"Nah, it isn't," Sixiang agreed easily. When they spoke again it was inside her head. "Back to the boys then? Make sure Wang hasn't convinced Turtle Boy to go sledding down the side of the mountain or something silly?"

She wouldn't put it like that, more like checking again to make sure they were getting along.

"Who isn't anyone's mother again?" Sixiang snickered.

Ling Qi rolled her eyes, and reappeared back on the landing, skipping a half dozen steps with each blink as she returned to the main plaza.

She found Wang Chao and Xuan Shi standing in the shade of one of the trees planted in the miniature gardens that dotted the plaza, already deep in conversation. The both of them looked up at her approach.

"Miss Ling! I was just discussing with Sir Xuan what sort of activity he thought would be the most entertaining when we got together tomorrow."

"This one did not feel it was correct to come to a decision without one of the participants," Xuan Shi said.

"Right, we need your input! I was thinking maybe we could have a competition between us to see whether I might break his defense before you could bypass them or if sir Xuan could keep us both out for an allotted time," Wang Chao said, grinning excitedly.

Ling Qi tilted her head to the side, considering. "You know, that does actually sound fun."

Goodness knew she was probably going to need a chance to relax by tomorrow afternoon. Her Grace would soon arrive, and tomorrow, she would be back to attending the Bai. Stepping into the shade with the two of them, Ling Qi began to ask for the details of the game.

A glance to the north where a growing star gleamed in the darkening sky told her time was short.
 
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There we are shown her vision. I can't describe it too you, not fully, but it is the vision of a far greater future, of teeming cities carved into the mountains, stretching over the rivers, filling the forests, not in the rigid imperial style, or the outdated ways of the past, something that is both of them, made better in the fusion
So, the dream of the Wang Matriarch is the same (or at least very similar) to the dream of the Meng revivalist faction Meng Diu and Meng Dan belongs to. Sounds like something Ling Qi can facilitate communications on, and thereby gain the appreciation of two count clans in one action. (And, paves the way towards cashing in on Infrastructure support from the Meng in addition to the Wang for Cai Renxiang's and Ling Qi's fief.)

Possibly also gives any potential suit from Wang Chao towards Alingge weight with his clan: Alingge's clan kept with the hill tribe traditions, modified from Imperial contact. Fusing them with the Wang clan's style strongly aligns with the Matriarch's vision.
 
Was that the importance LQ gave to family in her Way beginning to warp her thinking?
I think it has to do with, if they counted the dead Li as family they should *really* prioritize their desires: IE they should be primarily concerned with the exorcism being properly done rather than the ownership of the property afterwards

like. They're suffering, and continue to suffer, and pride is getting in the way of both clans doing what is right for their so-called Family
 
"There we are shown her vision. I can't describe it too you, not fully, but it is the vision of a far greater future, of teeming cities carved into the mountains, stretching over the rivers, filling the forests, not in the rigid imperial style, or the outdated ways of the past, something that is both of them, made better in the fusion.
Oh, Wang are playing tall not wide.

"Why in the world does that sort of thing keep coming up?" Ling Qi said irritably.

"Cause it's a big part of the human experience I gather," Sixiang said dryly. "Honestly, we gotta talk sometime, Ling Qi."
So Aro!Ling Qi or Ling Qi is an 80's buisness woman who is too busy for love? :p:V:V
Just feeling out if the the next quest is going to start for charactar selection for who we're going to navigate her rom com life as and hopefully pair her off with. E: Red Threads of Destiny.
 
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Oh, Wang are playing tall not wide.


So Aro!Ling Qi or Ling Qi is an 80's buisness woman who is too busy for love? :p:V:V
Just feeling out if the the next quest is going to start for charactar selection for who we're going to navigate her rom com life as and hopefully pair her off with. E: Red Threads of Destiny.
From what i remember, she is uncomfortable with the topic in general as a result of her mothers experiences, she does not exactly view relationships the same way the other do giver her limited and unusual (at least for her peers) knowledge/history of them. It does not help that she is now moving in very different circles than before and has no idea what the standards/expectations are.
 
The older woman squinted into the distance. "The girl from the old tribes in Luo lands? Hmph, my little brother is odd. I'll have time to observe for myself. I'm sure you've noticed Chao is not good at hiding things."

"I have sought not to take advantage," Ling Qi said carefully.

"Of course you haven't," Wang Lian said without inflection
Lol Lian knows what's up with women in her younger brother's life
 
"Why in the world does that sort of thing keep coming up?" Ling Qi said irritably.

You're a noble now, shipping wars have an unfortunate tendency to spill over into actual armies.

I think it has to do with, if they counted the dead Li as family they should *really* prioritize their desires: IE they should be primarily concerned with the exorcism being properly done rather than the ownership of the property afterwards

like. They're suffering, and continue to suffer, and pride is getting in the way of both clans doing what is right for their so-called Family

Whoever services the dead would claim the province by right of maintenance, so that can't really happen until ownership is sorted out. Even going "Hey now lets sort out the dead and leave the inheritance for after" is gonna lead to building up infrastructure in the property to strengthen their claims.
 
Wang wants to build up, Meng are mostly in line with that too, and some of the Bao wants to build sustainably.

As long as the Diao doesn't have too different a goal, that should mean most of the clans close to us have somewhat aligned goals. All willingly serving under the illustrious Cai.

So. Will the larger clan level shenanigans come from the Sun or the Imperials? What do you guys think?
 
Wang wants to build up, Meng are mostly in line with that too, and some of the Bao wants to build sustainably.

As long as the Diao doesn't have too different a goal, that should mean most of the clans close to us have somewhat aligned goals. All willingly serving under the illustrious Cai.

So. Will the larger clan level shenanigans come from the Sun or the Imperials? What do you guys think?

I mean, the Sun are the evil mirror to both the Cai and Ling Qi. The Hui and the Bai are the respective past enemies that made Cai Shenhua and Sun Shao who they are, and they carry that grudge still even as Whites--but Cai Shenhua still has ideals, and those ideals protect her from that hatred. Sun Shao doesn't have that, and that's why he gives up everything to the jungle, making a mockery of what he claims to value. That's why CRX has no real feelings toward the Hui and Liling hates the Bai, for all that they likely had equally little interaction with either before the Sect.

(The ending of Welcome to the Jungle in the Royal Road version is much tighter just for incorporating both parts of that "Family is everything, everything for family" motto.)

From a dramatic and thematic perspective, I'd be incredibly surprised if they aren't a major climactic enemy... Not least because it makes a nice bookend for Sun Liling to be one of the first and last enemies of Cai Renxiang and Ling Qi. (Ten thousand times more if it involves Ling Qi trying to convince her to lay old inherited hatreds aside and coexist, ala the roommate choice at the very beginning--because this time, Ling Qi would be able to do it with sincerity and purpose, even if she still failed.)
 
"It will be good for her grace to take more for the Cai," Wang Lian replied. "Too much of the Hui land was divided. As for the Wang clan, do not concern yourself. It will be a millennia before we can expand."

"Why is that, if you don't mind the question," Ling Qi asked. "It seems such an uncommon attitude."

"We do not have the men to hold more," Wang Lian replied shortly.

"I do not think that is the whole reason," Ling Qi said quietly. "Those with power are rarely content with what they have."

She worried for a moment that she had overstepped herself when Wang Lian did not reply, and had begun to formulate an apology when she saw the older woman's shoulder's shaking. Not with anger, but quiet laughter.

"I forget already, what it is like to be young. There is more to ambition than lifting larger weights, killing more foes, and painting maps," Wang Lian chuckled. "Of course we want more, but why should we need to go out and conquer for that?"
Hm, interesting. Wang Lian here seems to show a different stance and attitude here compared to a typical Wang stance, including her brother Wang Chao. Their clan usually holds an expansionist stance, and while she doesn't deny wanting them, she seems to value depth more than breadth.
 
Hm, interesting. Wang Lian here seems to show a different stance and attitude here compared to a typical Wang stance, including her brother Wang Chao. Their clan usually holds an expansionist stance, and while she doesn't deny wanting them, she seems to value depth more than breadth.
I would disagree. It seems Wang Chao holds a stance different than most of the Wang Clan, but the Wang were characterized was being aggressive in the first thread. The assumption from that was an expansionist set, but really it seems they want to actively hunt cloud tribes to increase their "programs" output and thus get more people in their land.
 
I wonder if the Wang thought expansion was the way to keep the Cai invested in the south to insure the Wang don't feel abandoned and isolated again since the Cai don't have a lot of land or vassals. Until the Bai/Cai alliance, Shenhua was seen as friendly to the Peaks whom have pretty low opinions if you don't fit the Imperial mold, which the Wang increasingly would if they are integrating Cloud Tribes.
 
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...but Cai Shenhua still has ideals, and those ideals protect her from that hatred. Sun Shao doesn't have that, and that's why he gives up everything to the jungle, making a mockery of what he claims to value.

Sun Shao gives things up to the jungle because his family keeps dying, his political goodwill keeps slipping through his fingers and Bai keep finding support they need to recuperate. Or, in other words, because he's desperate, not because he's some ideal-less evil motherfucker.

When Cai Shenhua was desperate, she may or may not have ripped her mortal daughter's spirit in pieces, sewn shut its mouth and imprisoned it within Cai Renxiang's dress, to be the unwilling guardian and power source for eternity.

Any White, when desperate, becomes their own brand of a horror show.
 
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"Right, we need your input! I was thinking maybe we could have a competition between us to see whether I might break his defense before you could bypass them or if sir Xuan could keep us both out for an allotted time," Wang Chao said, grinning excitedly.

Ling Qi tilted her head to the side, considering. "You know, that does actually sound fun."
Xuan Shi gets his raid boss roleplay session!
 
but Cai Shenhua still has ideals, and those ideals protect her from that hatred. Sun Shao doesn't have that, and that's why he gives up everything to the jungle, making a mockery of what he claims to value. That's why CRX has no real feelings toward the Hui and Liling hates the Bai, for all that they likely had equally little interaction with either before the Sect.
His ideal is keeping the Bai from torturing all his friends and family to death. Which is what they'll do the instant Sun Shao dies and they no longer have a White.
 
Hm, interesting. Wang Lian here seems to show a different stance and attitude here compared to a typical Wang stance, including her brother Wang Chao. Their clan usually holds an expansionist stance, and while she doesn't deny wanting them, she seems to value depth more than breadth.
You can be expansionist while also acknowledging that you must build up the areas you already control first. My context is Crusader Kings (specifically the Elder Scrolls total conversion mod Elder Kings) where I just recently established a Kingdom and expanded to the most logical borders (I'm between two ranges of mountains in The Reach, my longest unsecured border is 4 provinces that border 5). I still want to expand, but 90% of all the holdings in my kindom are tribal villages. I'm going to have to spend tens or even hundreds of years teching up so I can make them all proper feudal holdings so we can stave off assaults from a neighboor with 12000 troops.
 
I think it has to do with, if they counted the dead Li as family they should *really* prioritize their desires: IE they should be primarily concerned with the exorcism being properly done rather than the ownership of the property afterwards

like. They're suffering, and continue to suffer, and pride is getting in the way of both clans doing what is right for their so-called Family
IIRC in this setting ghosts are explicitly not the person who died.
 
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