Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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No, his plan was use the imperial throne and the other ducals to restrain the Bai. This was working for centuries, but the imperial throne started to let up with the new empress and last year the Cai suddenly switched sides to ally with the Bai. He pursued all his other options to prevent the extermination of his family and it is only now that he's been so thoroughly backed into a corner.
Do keep in mind that the previous way things were going was pushing the Bai into backing down again and again until their choices would be accepting being forever crippled as a clan, and then likely gone soon after, or going 'fuck the consequences if we go down it is swinging' and wake up their Sublime Ancestor.

That is why the new Empress and other people who were dumping on the Bai let up. They were approaching the point where any further demands would be answered with 'no fuck you, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'. And until Shenhua made her play and changed the entire scenario things we still heading that way, if significantly slower.

Honestly once Shao decided he knew better than millennia of knowledge back to the Sage himself I don't think it was really possible for things to end up in any way but disaster. Chances are we will seeing not a Sublime acting but multiple Sublimes throwing down to resolve this conflict, which is going to wreck most of the Empire. At best if he hadn't dumped on the Bai quite as hard and managed to get another White up before dying he could have pushed it to the next generation, but it would only be kicking the can down the road.

And once Candesce suggested the idea I am increasingly leaning towards the Sunflower Goddess putting her hand in the scale to make sure things go that way. It would be easy to influence all the people in the Jungle or to make promising people fail given they literally live in her after all.
 
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I was thinking of them as people that go out to the various powerful spirits in the area that we already have some kind of agreement with and make sure that
1. The spirits' concerns are addressed
2. We get warned of anything they know is coming
3. We can ask the spirits for help on a timely basis.

A Barony is pretty small but much of it is going to be wilderness.

Oh!! I see that we were thinking exactly the same thing but with different names ...

I said Rangers thinking about ...

Ranger
Far from the bustle of cities and towns, past the hedges that shelter the most distant farms from the terrors of the wild, amid the dense-packed trees of trackless forests and across wide and empty plains, rangers keep their unending watch.
Ranger: Fey Wanderer (UA)
As a Fey Wanderer, you guard the border between the Feywild and the Material Plane, guiding the lost out of the Feywild and preventing dangerous fey from damaging the Material Plane. Your experience with both domains makes you an exceptional negotiator between inhabitants of these worlds, as you understand both humanoid mindsets and the wiles of the fey courts.

From Dungeons and Dragons. (wikidot dnd5e)
 
And once Candesce suggested the idea I am increasingly leaning towards the Sunflower Goddess putting her hand in the scale to make sure things go that way. It would be easy to influence all the people in the Jungle or to make promising people fail given they literally live in her after all.
The real big problem is going to come about if the trade with the underground cities picks up enough that the Bai can begin turning the corrupting star-stones into actual full on Anti-Jungle toxins and poisons.

Because as we've seen the stuff is Bad, with a capital B, for anything that uses recognizable qi. I can only imagine what the Bai poisoners might be able to cook up given time and enough samples but I am guessing that the Sunflower Goddess is going to pick up more than a few permanently necrotized wounds at best or start suffering a jungle wide deity-equivalent of an auto-immune disorder as the jungle begins eating itself to try and kill the poison before simply undergoing a full ecological collapse at worse.

The Bai avoid the jungle because it's just a losing business to face it, but if the star-stones give them a new outside-context weapon then they will absolutely go coocoo for coconuts over refining it to the n-th degree to let them wipe the stain that is the Sun of the face of the planet and place them in such a pre-eminent position as "avenging the Sage Emperor" would do for them.
 
The real big problem is going to come about if the trade with the underground cities picks up enough that the Bai can begin turning the corrupting star-stones into actual full on Anti-Jungle toxins and poisons.

Because as we've seen the stuff is Bad, with a capital B, for anything that uses recognizable qi. I can only imagine what the Bai poisoners might be able to cook up given time and enough samples but I am guessing that the Sunflower Goddess is going to pick up more than a few permanently necrotized wounds at best or start suffering a jungle wide deity-equivalent of an auto-immune disorder as the jungle begins eating itself to try and kill the poison before simply undergoing a full ecological collapse at worse.

The Bai avoid the jungle because it's just a losing business to face it, but if the star-stones give them a new outside-context weapon then they will absolutely go coocoo for coconuts over refining it to the n-th degree to let them wipe the stain that is the Sun of the face of the planet and place them in such a pre-eminent position as "avenging the Sage Emperor" would do for them.
That's a good point.

My general analysis, based off Suzhen's inclinations and the track record, was that the Bai would likely to be looking towards economic warfare to cripple the Sun - it's worth noting that a line through TL/ES/SS essentially cuts off WT entirely... though functionally the only route that matters are the TL ones, as the Sun haven't managed to get a port up and running and the ES/WT border is really not in a good place for trade.

But you raise a good point that current events could plausibly lay the groundwork for the Bai acquiring other options for dealing with them via extensive war crimes.
 
It seems that way because he's never had much screen time in Ling Qi's life, therefore we don't get any information about him. But even then, we do know that he 1) had firm support of the previous Emperor up until his ascension 2) tried to earn favor and help of the current Empress for quite some time 3) still has many friends in Celestial Peaks 4) tried for a long time to do what he claimed to do - conquer the jungle. Considering he has like 2 interludes that touch upon him across hundreds of thousands of words, that's quite a lot imo.

Now, he certainly failed in half of those things he tried to do and that's a firm strike against him, but the attempts were there. I'm sure if we get more information on him, there will be even more opportunities he tried to grab and failed before he resorted to what we saw in Welcome to the Jungle. I doubt someone as accomplished as him would be stupid enough to sit on his ass and just wait for the situation to become better on its own.

On another note, I'm also not really sure that his ancestor-ing of Liling failed in its purpose. Of course, it does make the Sun closer to the barbarians that had lived there, but it also makes Sunflower actually defend them and somewhat care for them (in her twisted way, but still). I doubt she did anything to defend previous barbarians. That, with the added fact that Sun Shao stole Bai's entire military from them (which they've yet to even begin reforming afaik), does make physical destruction/subjugation of Sun by Bai nearly impossible in the next millenia. Plenty of time for Liling to think of something.
No, his plan was use the imperial throne and the other ducals to restrain the Bai. This was working for centuries, but the imperial throne started to let up with the new empress and last year the Cai suddenly switched sides to ally with the Bai. He pursued all his other options to prevent the extermination of his family and it is only now that he's been so thoroughly backed into a corner.

This:

Do keep in mind that the previous way things were going was pushing the Bai into backing down again and again until their choices would be accepting being forever crippled as a clan, and then likely gone soon after, or going 'fuck the consequences if we go down it is swinging' and wake up their Sublime Ancestor.

That is why the new Empress and other people who were dumping on the Bai let up. They were approaching the point where any further demands would be answered with 'no fuck you, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'. And until Shenhua made her play and changed the entire scenario things we still heading that way, if significantly slower.

Honestly once Shao decided he knew better than millennia of knowledge back to the Sage himself I don't think it was really possible for things to end up in any way but disaster. Chances are we will seeing not a Sublime acting but multiple Sublimes throwing down to resolve this conflict, which is going to wreck most of the Empire. At best if he hadn't dumped on the Bai quite as hard and managed to get another White up before dying he could have pushed it to the next generation, but it would only be kicking the can down the road.

And once Candesce suggested the idea I am increasingly leaning towards the Sunflower Goddess putting her hand in the scale to make sure things go that way. It would be easy to influence all the people in the Jungle or to make promising people fail given they literally live in her after all.

This is what I mean by supporting his "plan" almost entirely on being a personal badass. Aiming for the support of the Imperial Throne against an individual enemy that absolutely must be destroyed requires you to be so valuable that they're willing to continue committing their resources to destroying them, when those resources must be weighed against the needs of the entire Empire--and what else did Sun Shao have to offer that was worth that price? I'm not exactly hearing about the Jungle's thriving trade, and if they had anything that incredibly valuable it would have come up incidentally. That leaves him and his men. For his plan to ever actually work would require him not to just strong but the strongest, and that just wasn't ever going to happen... And in this scenario, nearly succeeding is so much worse than failing badly, because it creates a blood feud.

--but that's assuming his seemingly unspoken premise, that there was no alternate to breaking the Bai but being broken by the Bai. The Bai are vengeful isolationists who are demonstrably able to be convinced to be less isolationist; accepting that one characteristic is mutable but the other utterly inflexible, when both are ultimately rooted in pride and caution, feels like assuming Sun's conclusion. There are some positions on the board with no winning moves, but Sun didn't start there. His choices brought him to this place.
 
The Sunflower Goddess has had some degree of access to Sun Shao and his family for a very long time. That's the entire reason he started a war where he had no win condition in the first place, you'll recall.

And we've seen Jungle cultivators before in some of the Silver Peak sect tests. "Be so horrific that enemies are compelled to attack you" is a trick they pull.

What I'm getting at: this might not be an opportunity handed to the Sunflower Goddess on a silver platter. She might have been building to it.
Perhaps some of her local avatars, and/or worshipers did so to win favor, but it would be rather odd for a none human to be an engine of change from what we've been told of how the setting functions.

Like I'm somewhat confused why there needs to be some master plan when a much simpler explanation is that a genius general using a super-majority of the none ducal cultivators from a province against another province equivalent does in fact generate enough insights to reach White when Ogodei reached peak Prism from much less than an entire province, and somebody willing to shed an ocean of blood on the alter of family being attractive to a bloodthirsty GS/SA.

Emperor was given the information about Bai & Sun Shao after his wife was killed by Bai assassins (they had 1 daughter, the current Empress). Bai really know this diplomacy thing.
This is called peak Xianxia young master syndrome applied to a clan to the extent they've been referred to as fossils during that time period. This even matches them being arrogant enough to go into hell jungle cause they're the Bai who are used to being Tyrants who make the rules, and as it turns out the person who waged a campaign inch by bloody inch that garnered him sufficient insights to reach White has a better understanding of the rules/Rule of the Jungle.

Like in general the Bai are a pretty realistic portrayal of a clan that is used to being able to get away with disproportionate retribution for crossing them, and how toxic such a mindset is for your relations with vassals hence most of them went into hell jungle.

*The lower case are things like hell jungle being so lethal due to generations of blood sacrifice from the locals to garner sufficient favor for survival creating a feedback loop of increasing lethality meaning similar to the Bai with their capital... getting the murder out of hell jungle is impossible**, and Rules are places of power akin to the Dreaming Moon party where most cultivators are at the mercy of an entity that loves for people to sleep among the Sunflowers.
**I'll note that while this is merely my personal opinion I think it was entirely possible for Sun Shao to succeed with his conquest on much more favorable terms to the Empire it... merely required two rather difficult conditions be met.

1) Take steps to insure the Bai infighting continues, and in doing so continue their downward spiral that leads to more fighting over limited resources crunch until one day many generations down the road the Bai caste system is simply impractical due to resource constraints that reformist factions are pushing for the ministries to help out. This obviously would require continued, and bloody intervention by the MoI as the Bai getting a White would make them able to work out a quasi functional foreign policy with other provinces via "Fear will bring the other Bai in line", but that makes it merely difficult not outright impossible.

2) For the Sun Clan, and their vassals to survive hell jungle without needing to rely heavily on direct favor from the Sunflower Goddess. Because while outright removing the murder from hell jungle is liable to prove impossible adapting it to be less lethal should be doable albeit slow, and reliant upon a stable supply of SS to permit cultivators to build a foundation with less risk of going native.
Sun Shao stole significant amount of the Bai armies, but i doubt it was all of them, and has probably wrecked not insignificant amount of the remainder since then.
But that was, i dunno, couple centuries back or more, Bai have armies, they might not be as strong as they once were, but they have them.
Though i would not worry about armies if i was Sun Shao, Bai do not want to attack the jungle, instead he should worry about external trade, alliances, and assassins targetting his family once the nuclear deterrent of him is gone.
The bigger issue is that the Bai have 1.1-1.9~ count clans, probably a similar lack of lower ranking noble clans, and worst of all for them I doubt the "commoner" clans stuck around at higher rates. So I'd expect them to be in a cultivator crunch for none* Bai cultivators to train into an army, and a lack of none Bai to build up the infrastructure to support any expansion of their armies, which leads to reformists using trade to turn high end cultivation resources into self repairing armaments meaning they avoid the uh problems inherent when a Bai orders something done when it is Bai most of the way down the hierarchy.

*The reason none Bai are useful is they lack in the inefficiencies inherent in how the Bai work out their hierarchy, and the Bai at peak
around at higher rates. So I'd expect them to be in a cultivator crunch for none* Bai cultivators to train into an army, and a lack of none Bai to build up the infrastructure to support any expansion of their armies, which leads to reformists using trade to turn high end cultivation resources into self repairing armaments meaning they avoid the uh problems inherent when a Bai orders something done when it is Bai most of the way down the hierarchy.

*The reason none Bai are useful is they lack in the inefficiencies inherent in how the Bai work out their hierarchy.
 
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There's a phrase I heard once, which is "rattlesnake cornered"--the idea being that rattlesnakes, if hiding fails and the threat doesn't run, don't really have a plan B. Either they bite you and you die, or they do. As a result, they can end up cornered on an empty plain. How applicable this is to actual rattlesnakes, I don't know; I'm not a herpetologist. But it feels like a pretty applicable concept with people.

It's been a great many years, and Sun Shao's only plan still seems to be, "be the baddest motherfucker that ever was." He has fewer allies than the "rule through fear" isolationists, and Welcome to the Jungle suggests he attributes this almost entirely to their being bad motherfuckers. ("If only the strength of ancestors is respected.") Sure, in his current situation, Ancestoring-up his granddaughter might be the least bad of many bad options... But the point of leadership is to avoid ever getting to the point of death-or-glory, and that is very much the current position of the Sun. If this is the best he could manage, then he had no place ever being in charge.

Shenhua's not perfect, certainly! I still support Renxiang deposing her the moment she can do so practically. But as someone initially defined (and still very much marked) by her hatred, the comparison to Sun Shao is illustrative--she's not the one sitting in a pitcher plant and hoping it digests his enemies first.
This seems to be ignoring a lot of what we actually know about Sun Shao and the Bai in order to make him look worse (and Shenhua better).

Sun Shao did have a number of plans. He had a number of children who had more advanced cultivation than Liling and might have replaced him. Sadly, they died. We know that at least one of those death is in the last 15 years of so at most, because Liliing exists.

Shao is struggling with the same thing every house that gets to white for the first time is. Getting a successor to White is really, really difficult. The Bai, with thousands or hundreds of thousands of cultivators bearing their name, with uncounted generations of cultivators providing arts to suit a range of temperaments for their archives, have taken 500 years and counting to get another white (and IIRC Suzen isn't there yet).

Compared to the Bai, Shao has a single much smaller family. Blaming him for not having another White cultivator on the go already is highly unfair, especially as it seems likely that his presumtive heir before Liling died relatively recently (in terms of a White's lifespan). Shenhua's attempts at dealing with the issue of her arts and path being potentially impossible to follow are... deeply unpleasant at best, and their effectiveness needs centuries to test. Putting aside Protagonist('s friend) syndrome, she may very well be in exactly the same position of failing to have a successor of the same level a few centuries down the line.

He also had to deal with the fact that his allies and the coalition he built collapsed on him completely unexpectedly. While the empress is less interested than her father in breaking the great houses stranglehold on cultivation, it was only around a decade ago* that the Bai were accused of killing a member of the imperial family, and had a pretty high ranking clan member executed for it. This is not the sort of thing that provokes good feeling between the two houses. That meant he had (at minimum) 3 great houses (himself, the Imperial house and the Cai, as strong allies of the Imperials) in at least a loose alliance against the Bai. Potentially three full whites to a house that could not muster a single one.

Now the argument that the Bai couldn't be pushed much further without them whipping out Grandmother snake MAD is very true. Yet, we also see in Shenhua's interlude that the Bai have a strong isolationist bent, even opposing trading with the greatest crafter in the world for weapons. So it is possible that pressure on the Bai could be maintained or slowly decreased while letting that isolationist bent lead them to wither on the vine, still powerful, but permanently reduced. Meanwhile Shao still has the greatest army in the world** to fend off raids, and his coalition to discourage a future Bai white from mounting a full scale invasion or taking the field in those raids themselves, along with his own reputation as the general who did the impossible.

Failing to predict Shenhua, who was an extremely strong ally of the imperial house suddenly turning about and opening up extremely friendly relations with the Bai does not make him a fool. It changes the situation a lot though. Let's put ourselves in Sun Shao's shoes for a minute:

With Shenhua, the greatest crafter in the world providing them arms, armour, talismans etc., those raids could become significantly more of a threat. It also means that he can't count on his coalition partners to come to his aid if strongly attacked. After all, if Shenhua, who has very strong ties to the imperial house, expresses this level of public support for the Bai without any comment from the Imperial Throne, then he can't count on a disinterested Empress to aid him either.

So within only a few months he's suddenly left without allies, facing a clan with a reputation for always going for over the top revenge against anyone who slights them, potentially armed by the greatest living crafter in the empire. He's not on plan b right now, he's on plan ZZ3. He needs his own MAD button right now. Not in a few years when Suzhen finally ascends, because the first thing he hears about her ascension might be when a white led assassination squad goes for his family. So he picks the option that he's been avoiding for years, thinking the price too high. Because to his mind, the alternative might be that everyone he loves dies a horrific*** death.

Which is not to say his assumptions are all true of course. But if you look at his point of view his actions are understandable, if far from good. The Bai have probably haunted his nightmares for centuries. The Sunflower goddess is the devil he knows. One that in it's own (awful) way seems to care for and want a family with him.

*Meizhen remembers things about her mother, so I'd guess she might have been three or four when it happened?
** He had basically the highest concentration of greens... ever. Even if all of them have died off the jungle's lethality seems like it would mean that a good proportion of their descendants reached a similar level.
***The Bai poisons are horrifying, and the Bai have a reputation for outsize revenge. Meizhen, noted as being extremely kind for a Bai, literally tortured Yan Renshuu's herb pickers for information. The Bai's grudge against Shao is a lot bigger compared to her grudge against Renshuu. I could well imagine him not wanting to see his family in the hands of the more rabid members of the clan.
 
He also had to deal with the fact that his allies and the coalition he built collapsed on him completely unexpectedly. While the empress is less interested than her father in breaking the great houses stranglehold on cultivation, it was only around a decade ago* that the Bai were accused of killing a member of the imperial family, and had a pretty high ranking clan member executed for it. This is not the sort of thing that provokes good feeling between the two houses. That meant he had (at minimum) 3 great houses (himself, the Imperial house and the Cai, as strong allies of the Imperials) in at least a loose alliance against the Bai. Potentially three full whites to a house that could not muster a single one.

Now the argument that the Bai couldn't be pushed much further without them whipping out Grandmother snake MAD is very true. Yet, we also see in Shenhua's interlude that the Bai have a strong isolationist bent, even opposing trading with the greatest crafter in the world for weapons. So it is possible that pressure on the Bai could be maintained or slowly decreased while letting that isolationist bent lead them to wither on the vine, still powerful, but permanently reduced. Meanwhile Shao still has the greatest army in the world** to fend off raids, and his coalition to discourage a future Bai white from mounting a full scale invasion or taking the field in those raids themselves, along with his own reputation as the general who did the impossible.
The problem is none of this matters, for two reasons.

One of them is that Sun Shao did not in fact have a coalition. Emperor An had a coalition, he did the actual job of building it. And it was built not to counter the Bai specifically but rather to increase the power of the throne at the expense of the Bai who were a convenient target. This was very advantageous to Sun Shao, but anyone with any actual sense could have told him that such a coalition would beget a counter coalition, born of those who do not like the idea of being next.

The inclusion of Cai Shenhua in such a counter coalition is actually rather logical when you realize that she doesn't actually believe in imperial ideologies, she just wants to consolidate power to herself by whatever means are most beneficial, and the throne taking away the power she's trying to take for herself is not in her interests.

The second reason is that even if everything had gone to plan and White Jiao had given the MoI the power to get such things as permanently pushing the Bai down done, having the power doesn't mean anyone would want to use it. If she was presented with a plan that said '95% chance we cripple the Bai forever, 5% chance Grandma Snake floods half the empire' Empress Xiang would say no because quite honestly it doesn't benefit her enough to risk that.

The whole reason for the current state of the Empire is that Empress Xiang, while unwilling to denounce the politics of her father due to the loss in prestige she would undoubtedly suffer compounding a not completely stable position, is even more unwilling to roll a d100 to determine the physical survival of the Empire just because Sun Shao really wants to. Which makes her quite simply a rational actor.

Empress Xiang doesn't have An's hateboner for the Bai, nor his Way which demands that people who committed crimes be punished regardless of consequences, the name Inexorable Justice and his existence as an aspect of Death certainly hinting at some very firm opinions he could not back away from over such concerns as collateral damage.
 
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what else did Sun Shao have to offer that was worth that price? I'm not exactly hearing about the Jungle's thriving trade, and if they had anything that incredibly valuable it would have come up incidentally.
It came up. The jungle offers a LOT of cultivation resources and basically all the jungle type materials. Its an extremely lucrative trade...if their major land route to the Empire didn't pass through the Bai.

As is, they have the sea route with Jin collaboration, while the Xuan do not have the manpower to interdict without escalating and parking one of their Xuanwu on the route.
He also had to deal with the fact that his allies and the coalition he built collapsed on him completely unexpectedly. While the empress is less interested than her father in breaking the great houses stranglehold on cultivation, it was only around a decade ago* that the Bai were accused of killing a member of the imperial family, and had a pretty high ranking clan member executed for it. This is not the sort of thing that provokes good feeling between the two houses. That meant he had (at minimum) 3 great houses (himself, the Imperial house and the Cai, as strong allies of the Imperials) in at least a loose alliance against the Bai. Potentially three full whites to a house that could not muster a single one.
Part of it is that Empress Xiang is not ruling under her own power right now.

Right now, the Throne has no Whites. She rules by the cooperation of the dukes, who An has ensured are pretty much split right down the middle, but if she applied pressure on the old clans she'd find her supporters on literally opposite ends of the Empire

I imagine the plan was originally counting on a White in the ministries
 
One of them is that Sun Shao did not in fact have a coalition. Emperor An had a coalition, he did the actual job of building it. And it was built not to counter the Bai specifically but rather to increase the power of the throne at the expense of the Bai who were a convenient target. This was very advantageous to Sun Shao, but anyone with any actual sense could have told him that such a coalition would beget a counter coalition, born of those who do not like the idea of being next.
Sun Shao faced the problem with all strategies: sometimes you roll badly. He wasn't exactly sitting around counting on others crippling the Bai to grant him success. He was trying to make good on his conquest by founding colonies, building up his family, creating trade with the Jin. The thing is these efforts didn't work fast enough to march the entrenched strength of the Bai who are now resurgent. So he's looking for strength to match the Bai's big stick which means another Sublime. Oddly enough I got an impression for Sun Shao that if the Bai remain angry neighbors indefinitely he isn't going to strike first. His hate for the Bai is flexible enough that out competing them or matching them is a viable dynamic for his Way.
 
Part of it is that Empress Xiang is not ruling under her own power right now.

Right now, the Throne has no Whites. She rules by the cooperation of the dukes, who An has ensured are pretty much split right down the middle, but if she applied pressure on the old clans she'd find her supporters on literally opposite ends of the Empire

I imagine the plan was originally counting on a White in the ministries
The Mu do have a White though. He's a sitting in a cave doing cultivation things and his Way isn't suited to ruling, but he is there to be pulled out if needed.
 
Burning Webs
Bygone Days: Burning Webs

To be a human was to wear a mask. To be a Hui was to wear three. Hui Shaoxi knew this well, it was why multiple houses were recorded in his name. Of course he had never seen any of them, let alone spent any time there. Instead it was a small nodule resting between branches that he called home. Hidden by shadows at all times of the day, and warded by years of effort, this complex was the perfect place for his craft.

Fumes circled the ceiling, passing through webs and dreams with the steady pace of a heartbeat. Feeble light, emerging from a single crystal buried under sheaves of paper, struggled against the fumes, casting the room in ever shifting shadows. There were no sounds, even as multihued liquids in tall beakers, lined up in vast racks encircling the room, bubbled and frothed. A normal cultivator would have choked long ago as their lungs filled with the noxious fumes. Yet Hui Shaoxi moved with careless confidence. His long hair, black as night, never touched a beaker or the ground, and his deep purple robe, inlaid with golden spiderwebs and tied with a black sash, never wrinkled or twisted. Everything here was under his control, as it should be.

"Enter." Hui Shaoxi said with minute flexes of qi. A crawl space door eased open with the word, and the qi. If an incorrect qi pattern had been given the crawl space would flood with fumes that boiled lungs, and liquids that seared flesh. Even then Hui Shaoxi thought that this indulgence of his was too large a security risk, at least it would be if his so-called peers were capable of anything but the simplest plans. For now he was content with a rotating cypher, a rather complex thing even for him, but after two failures he had memorized it.

Out of the crawlspace two pale hands appeared and a small figure clothed in green robes emerged from the crawlspace. Hui Shaoxi paid little attention to the servant as he poured out a measured cup of frothing liquid.

"Drink." He said, and with steady hands the servant took the cup. Through oaths Hui Shaoxi could feel the man's little mind, with it's dull muddy intelligence. Nothing was there that shouldn't be, only blind obedience. As it should be.

The servant drank the cup.

With his piercing eyes Hui Shaoxi watched the drink tear through the man's stomach, rupture meridians, and pulp the dantain. It took one second. With a single twitch the servant collapsed, blood beginning to leak from the eyes and nose as the drink forced its way through veins towards the brain.

"Clean." He said, and smaller hands, just as pale as the first, reached out from the crawl space and gently pulled the body through it. Emotions wafted from the entrance and Hui Shaoxi wrinkled his nose. Sorrow, and sadness. Who dared express such unseemly emotions? It could affect his work, and that was intolerable. Servants were only worth it if they remained unseen and unfelt. He would have to set an example.

"Close." He said, and smiled at the sound of hurried scurrying. Better. Stepping away as defense after defense triggered in the crawl space, Hui Shaoxi sat down at his desk. Dozens of cyphers ran through his head before he picked one. Alchemical symbols altered by an erroneous star map. For his personal journal there was no need for anything too complex.

As he wrote he pondered his work. One second was far too short of a time for his product. Far too short. It should linger, causing pain for days, weeks, perhaps even years, before finally killing the afflicted. The horror of gently losing cultivation progress would pull his victims into despair, and the longer the process the greater the despair. Things were so much more enjoyable if there was time to savor the emotions. What could slow everything down? Ground and pureed Southern Two Headed Newts? Yes, that would be a perfect agent to slow the effect. Didn't he have a case of the things secreted in with the junk his peers ordered? Now, where was it?

Hui Shaoxi stood up and cabinets opened and closed, each one responding to his qi. A brief moment passed as the cabinets opened and closed, faster and faster. Then there was a shudder as, at the same time, every cabinet closed soundless. There was no Southern Two Headed Newt, none in his workshop. An accounting was needed. With a fluid motion he rose from his chair and walked out of his inner sanctum. Behind him the door shut itself and began to hum with wards and locks, dreams and blood.

Before him was a young, no older than ten years old, servant kneeling on the rich carpet with his head pressed against the ground.

"Shipment?" Hui Shaoxi said, hands clasped behind his back as he stared into the space above the servant.

"Your lordship, the shipments have been delayed." The servant said.

"Unacceptable." With a twitch of his qi Hui Shaoxi triggered the servants oaths, and the man's blood began to turn against him. Tearing him apart. "Displeasure." Then Hui Shaoxi eased his qi away, his unending mercy allowing the servant respite while enforcing his will upon the worm.

"This humble one will bring your enlightened words to the caravans himself." The servant said, blood trailing as tears down his face.

Hui Shaoxi didn't respond, simply turning around and reentering his sanctum. A shipment delayed, this was the second one in as many weeks. Fingers tapped against his desk as he sat down. A simpleton's conclusion would be that the troubles with this Cai were the cause. Hui Shaoxi knew better than that of course. Still, he thought with a sigh, the Elders would hopefully wrap up whatever ploy was going on with this "unrest". It was giving opportunities for so many otherwise braindead ploys.

Time passed as ploys and counter strategies spun in his head. There was a simple answer, loath as Hui Shaoxi was to admit it. If one of his peers, or more likely a coalition of them, had realized his potential, then the safest place to be was away from Xiangmen. At least for a time. Yes. Yes, that could work. Reorganizing shipments and watching for sabotage would reveal who was moving against him, all while allowing him to make final preparations. Leaving Xiangmen, for however short, would ache, but it was an ache he could endure to ensure his unseen rival was put in their place.

Moving fast would be key. During this relocation he would be at his most exposed. With a single order sent upon a pulse of qi he sent his servants to work. Regents and beakers were stored away in special storage rings. Within the hour Hui Shaoxi knew everything was set. A final pulse of qi destroyed every beaker around him. Liquids crashed and pooled together, their fumes thickening and blackening. A memorable gift for anyone thinking to strike him here, Hui Shaoxi thought with a smile. With that parting present he left Xiangmen.

*** One Year Later ***​


An unopened letter rested on Hui Shaoxi's desk. Unopened, but not unread. Learning how to read letters without touching them was a skill children learned and it was only through the control Hui children were also taught that Hui Shaoxi remained standing. Xiangmen pillaged. Contained within the letter were methods in communicating with other safehouses. Xiangmen pillaged. Instructions laid bare with hurried writing. Xiangmen pillaged. Xiangmen pillaged. XIANGMEN PILLAGED.

No. Hui Shaoxi took a shuddering breath. No. This was clearly a ploy by his rival to draw him out of hiding. Some elder must have taken pity on the oaf. Yes. This was clearly misinformation, and a poor attempt at that. Xiangmen couldn't fall. It couldn't. Still, if an elder was assisting then even greater care would need to be taken. Even greater care.

*** Twenty Years Later ***​

"Any news?" Geng Chao said as he stood inside the entrance of the safehouse's tunnel. Before him were two guards.

"Spies in the village report a White Plume squad bunking down there. The Lord won't want to hear that report, but it does mean we need to be extra careful. Can't lose more."

There were less of them now Geng Chao thought as he nodded to the servants on watch. On his back was a wicker basket holding a live Southern Two Headed Newt. A quarter had disappeared in the swamps trying to catch the damn things. The creature's desperate attempts to escape almost made him stumble as he walked further down into the safehouse. Stumbling now would be deadly. Traps laid thick in the tunnel, along with the bones of those who stumbled into them. A quarter had been taken that way. Finally he was able to haul the basket off and hand it off to a servant in charge of processing the creature. For a moment he stared at the inner sanctum, its sealed doors humming with power, before turning back. A third had been taken by the Lord.

Today he was in charge of cleaning beakers, and to his surprise, but not displeasure, he found Lin Zhi already working.

"Lin Zhi. Why are you here? You are not scheduled for beaker cleaning today." Geng Chao said, fingers twitching in clear exhaustion.

"Apologies Geng Chao." Lin Zhi said, fingers twitching in clear exhaustion. "I must have forgotten the schedule."

Geng Chao froze, staring at the still twitching fingers of the clearly exhausted girl. "I see." He said, fingers twitching in clear exhaustion. "Memorize the schedule more thoroughly. In fact you are dismissed so you can."

"I thank you for your lenicany." Lin Zhi said, fingers twitching in clear exhaustion and tears brimming in the corners of her eyes.

"Attend to your task." Geng Chao said, fingers twitching in clear exhaustion.

Lin Zhi nodded, dabbed the corners of her eyes with her tattered robe, and then smiled that brave smile. That brave smile, the one Geng Chao had fallen in love with so long ago in a different world. It didn't matter that the Lord had scarred her that day they left Xiangmen. She was still beautiful.

Scattered reflections stared back at him as Geng Chao cleaned the beakers. With careful motions he cleaned irreplaceable glass, and with careful minute fluctuations of qi he dulled and muddied his mind. Thoughts stood out less when they were small and unimportant.

A legacy was the last thing he ever wanted, but a legacy was something he might have. Something needed to be done. He had hoped for more time, but with the guard's warning this would be his best chance. Lin Zhi and their unborn child may not survive, but better a chance than no future at all. With a single motion a beaker disappeared into his robe.

It was dark, during the four hours of sleep servants were permitted when Geng Chao stood up. A short walk away slept Lin Zhi, precious Lin Zhi. He knelt beside her bedside and gave her one last kiss on her forehead. She stirred, but didn't wake. Good.

Walking through passages long memorized brought him to the entrance. He took a steady breath before dulling and muddying his thoughts again.

One of the guards frowned at him as he approached. "Mission?" He asked.

"Yes." Geng Chao said, with all the confidence of someone speaking the truth. "The Lord gave me a mission." It was the truth after all. There was one mission the Lord had given him that he had yet to fulfill. Tonight he would.

The frown deepened, but the guard waved him through.

Once hidden by the brushes at the front of the tunnel entrance, Geng Chao removed the glass beaker hidden earlier in the day. It broke in his hands. Glass shards dug into his hands, and blood dripped into the swamp ferns below him. Ah, how careless. Best replace it before the Lord found out. Lucky for him he was going to speak to the caravan master. He needed to express his Lord's displeasure about the shipment delays.

Given he was a clumsy worm Geng Chao made sure to place his hands on each tree he passed. It wouldn't do for him to slip and drown in the swamp before completing his mission. Deep in his mind, where the oaths resided and bound his blood to service, there was a slight pain, a slight stirring, and Geng Chao emptied his mind completely. Now he walked aimlessly, yet somehow always forward. Always towards the town.

There was another pain, an even greater stirring in his mind as he approached the town. Yet it was a known fact that the Lords of Xiangmen controlled it's caravans, so the best way to find a caravan master was to find representatives of the Lords of Xiangmen. Lucky that there were representatives of the Lords here in this town. These simple and true facts forced the oaths that bound him into a confused dormancy.

It was only when a figure with a white plume atop their helmet stopped him at the edge of town did the oaths roar awake.

"Halt. What is your business?"

Even as the blood in his veins turned on him, devouring him from the inside out, Geng Chao spoke. "Lord Hui Shaoxi wishes to…" There was a flash of steel, and a sense of freedom he had never known before. He was dead before his head hit the ground.

***​

"Report." Captain Liang Zedong said in his tent.

"There was a disturbance in the village. I suspect a Hui sympathizer tried to sneak into the town." Came the report.

There was a glint of steel and then Captain Liang Zedong was beside his soldier. "Show me."

Sad. That was the word that emerged in Liang Zedong's mind as he stared down at the disheveled and emancipated figure. Blood was already being whisked away by the damp ground and as he knelt down to study the body and head he saw bloodshot eyes and disgorged veins. Clear signs of a triggered Hui blood oath. Standing up he walked over to a nearby tree and saw the bloody handprint on it.

"Sir?" His soldier said.

Captain Lian Zedong walked over to the decapitated head and closed the man's eyes. Then he stood up, helmet flashing as a steel mask appeared to cover his face. "This man will be buried with honors when we return."

He called to his squad, his message reverberating through the qi of the world. Through a special talisman he triggered a special signal. Other squads would converge now, even if his squad fell. All around him soldiers appeared, some cleaving through the air, others sparking with lightning, others emitting sparks, but all wearing the white plume.

"Tonight we hunt." There were no more words needed to be said.

Before the night was through another web was burned. Another name struck from the records. Perhaps some of the servants survived, at last turning against the oaths that bound them from birth. Perhaps they all died in a doomed defense of their Lord. What is known is that after the sun rose again no Geng or Lin would ever be born with oaths carved into their mind and blood again.

A.N
Omake for @yrsillar
I enjoyed writing this piece so I hope you enjoyed reading it!
 
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extensive war crimes.

... like manufacturing T-virus plague spirits to kill off the jungle?

(Side thought: Trading that dagger is totally gonna lead to biblical plagues striking WT or shishigui towns. Of course Shao literally infected Liling with the progenator flower and Shenhua's making universal soldiers complete with life fiber control chips)

Even if TL and ES collude to economically cut off WT, WT still has coastal acess if not a major port and river access to their capital (for trade via the Sun friendly eafaring Jin), as well as civilizations further west of the jungle's reaches. We just haven't really seen anything of WT trade practices. Although I'd agree that the apparent severe difficulty of maintaining settlements also applies to maintining trade routes, and that long Bai border probably offers the most direct and defensible routes.

Not sure if Shenhua would even help Bai weaken WT. She told CRX that we're aiding the Bai in order to check the ... er Monkey clan. Do we know why Shenhua wants to do this?
While stronger Bai collaterally hurts WT, Shenhua didn't express intent to purposefully oppose WT. She might have other plans for them. But like CRX I'm in the dark re: her motives.
 
... like manufacturing T-virus plague spirits to kill off the jungle?

(Side thought: Trading that dagger is totally gonna lead to biblical plagues striking WT or shishigui towns. Of course Shao literally infected Liling with the progenator flower and Shenhua's making universal soldiers complete with life fiber control chips)

Even if TL and ES collude to economically cut off WT, WT still has coastal acess if not a major port and river access to their capital (for trade via the Sun friendly eafaring Jin), as well as civilizations further west of the jungle's reaches. We just haven't really seen anything of WT trade practices. Although I'd agree that the apparent severe difficulty of maintaining settlements also applies to maintining trade routes, and that long Bai border probably offers the most direct and defensible routes.

Not sure if Shenhua would even help Bai weaken WT. She told CRX that we're aiding the Bai in order to check the ... er Monkey clan. Do we know why Shenhua wants to do this?
While stronger Bai collaterally hurts WT, Shenhua didn't express intent to purposefully oppose WT. She might have other plans for them. But like CRX I'm in the dark re: her motives.
She's aiding the Bai because the situation holding them down is untenable. They will inevitably regain their former strength and influence, but currently they're weak enough that even the aid of the youngest Ducal house is invaluable to them. It's an investment, if they're going to be powerful no matter what, might as well get in on the ground floor and help them reclaim their former glory.
 
Also the Cai themselves need allies among the other Ducals. They're currently a clan of three and a half, with a limited archive of resources to fall back on and no historic ties. The Xuan are too far to be good allies, the Sun are tied up with the Jungle, the Guo keep to themselves in the scheme of things, and the Jin are merchants through and through (meaning they can be trusted to sell you out if it's profitable).

The Bai are a golden opportunity to shore up the Cai, an incredibly old and powerful house in a moment of weakness, and more than likely to remember any aid given to help them regain their former strength.
 
While Meizhen has a talent for Earth Arts, this hasn't really gone anywhere. She still mostly uses Water techniques, albeit with added corrosive rain. My thoughts on how to make Earth a bigger part of her toolkit:

1. Her Abyssal Mantle turns into the Chthonic Mantle. Instead of water and ice, it uses mud, clay, stone, and/or jewels.
2. Her acid rain generates corrosive mud. Unlike LQ who inspires frustration with all her tricks, Meizhen's control Arts would be about inspiring misery.

Those changes can be dropped in without changes to how she fights. The elements are different but the basic effects are all the same. Next are the immediate next steps:

3. "Corrosive Earth" fits neatly into the toxic underground atmosphere and Qingling can probably get her access to relevant samples.
4. Her mud patch becomes about sucking people down into it and also exhuming stuff that's down below. This can be an excuse for construct creation, if need be.
5. Once underground, her burrowing ability becomes pseudo-flight. Mostly this is just about making it more graceful.

Finally, it may be useful to have an endgame planned for where her cultivation ends up. I would suggest that being inspired by Patala/Nagaloka: the underworld home of serpent people. It is supposedly an extremely beautiful place, full of sweet fragrances, beautiful music, wonderful groves, pure lakes, and splendid jewels. Of note for an Earth cultivator, the soil has brilliant colors, such as purple, white, gold, and black.

Thoughts?
 
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While Meizhen has a talent for Earth Arts, this hasn't really gone anywhere. She still mostly uses Water techniques, albeit with added corrosive rain. My thoughts on how to make Earth a bigger part of her toolkit:

1. Her Abyssal Mantle turns into the Chthonic Mantle. Instead of water and ice, it uses mud, clay, stone, and/or jewels.
2. Her acid rain generates corrosive mud. Unlike LQ who inspires frustration with all her tricks, Meizhen's control Arts would be about inspiring misery.

Those changes can be dropped in without changes to how she fights. The elements are different but the basic effects are all the same. Next are the immediate next steps:

3. "Corrosive Earth" fits neatly into the toxic underground atmosphere and Qingling can probably get her access to relevant samples.
4. Her mud patch becomes about sucking people down into it and also exhuming stuff that's down below. This can be an excuse for construct creation, if need be.
5. Once underground, her burrowing ability becomes pseudo-flight. Mostly this is just about making it more graceful.

Finally, it may be useful to have an endgame planned for her cultivation ends up. I would suggest that being inspired by Patala/Nagaloka: the underworld home of serpent people. It is supposedly an extremely beautiful place, full of sweet fragrances, beautiful music, wonderful groves, pure lakes, and splendid jewels. Of note for an Earth cultivator, the soil has brilliant colors, such as purple, white, gold, and black.

Thoughts?
How interesting. A realm full of jewels and she is seeing a Bao? Seems like a good fit.
 
@memoryofglory

I mean yes grooming powerful friends = good but...

CRX asks why side with them and Shenhua's explanation boils down to checking Zheng power, cause elder Jiao lost his murder hobo mojo and left the political assassination game. What's Shenhua's motive for playing outside duchies against each other?

Quote from forge epilogue:

CRX
"I simply wish to understand Mother's reasoning in taking aligning so openly with the Bai clan, and making true enemies of the Sun," Cai Renxiang said humbly, her gaze remaining steadfastly on the ground.

Shenhua
"...Once, the Ministry of Integrity might have risen as a counterbalance to eventual Zheng interference, but their rising star losing his Way ended that path. As things stand, a realignment was inevitable. Do you understand then, Renxiang?"

(side thought: everytime I type Shenhua, I wanna abbreviate like I do CRX, but I always only think of Duchess (which isn't actually an abbreviation I know.) Then that thoutht makes me want to call her archer.)
 
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CRX asks why side with them and Shenhua's explanation boils down to checking Zheng power, cause elder Jiao lost his murder hobo mojo and left the political assassination game. What's Shenhua's motive for playing outside duchies against each other?
What Shenhua means is simple: so far, the Bai and the Xuan had been kept in check by the Sun and the Jin, but that is no longer a stable arrangement. The Zheng, having seen what has been happening to the Bai and regarding it as exactly the sort of thing they never want to see happening to them, are moving to prevent that possibility from ever coming to be. The Ministry of Integrity and by extension the Throne, cannot check the Zheng, currently the most powerful of the Ducal families and most jealous guardians of their traditional privileges.

Ergo, siding with the Throne won't actually get Shenhua anything, because the throne is losing this one as is. Thus, a realignment of Emerald Seas policy to join with the new power block. Because Shenhua has interests, and those interests do not demand she pick either side but they do demand she picks the side that will win with minimal intervention on her part, because she doesn't have the time or the people to go intervening in anything too far outside Emerald Seas.
 
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I mean yes grooming powerful friends = good but...

CRX asks why side with them and Shenhua's explanation boils down to checking Zheng power, cause elder Jiao lost his murder hobo mojo and left the political assassination game. What's Shenhua's motive for playing outside duchies against each other?

Quote from forge epilogue:

CRX
"I simply wish to understand Mother's reasoning in taking aligning so openly with the Bai clan, and making true enemies of the Sun," Cai Renxiang said humbly, her gaze remaining steadfastly on the ground.

Shenhua
"...Once, the Ministry of Integrity might have risen as a counterbalance to eventual Zheng interference, but their rising star losing his Way ended that path. As things stand, a realignment was inevitable. Do you understand then, Renxiang?"

(side thought: everytime I type Shenhua, I wanna abbreviate like I do CRX, but I always only think of Duchess (which isn't actually an abbreviation I know.) Then that thoutht makes me want to call her archer.)

This is referring to the Zheng interfering with the Empire's policy of 'keep down the Bai', rather than an alignment of the Cai and the Bai against the Zheng.

Ah, here we are. You elided the earlier part of the quote, which explains it perfectly:

"Correct of course, if not wholly right," Cai Shenhua tutted. "It is true that clan was pleased to see their rivals humbled. However, there was a limit to that. In the end, the Bai and the Zheng are the last remnants of pre-imperial days. There is a kinship there, even in the depths of enmity. Once, the Ministry of Integrity might have risen as a counterbalance to eventual Zheng interference, but their rising star losing his Way ended that path. As things stand, a realignment was inevitable. Do you understand then, Renxiang?"

Bolded for visibility.

Basically, if the Bai were ever crushed, the Zheng would wonder when they would be next. As such, 'Zheng interference' refers to them acting in support of the Bai, rather than continuing to help keep the Bai down.

With this, and with the fact that the MoI does not have a White to prevent that interference, the Bai's resurgence is an inevitability, and a 'realignment' of Imperial Politics is also an inevitability.
 
... now I'm more confused. Shenhua supporting Bai to keep Zheng from eventually supporting / avenging Bai?

I dun think her realignment talk is just about gobbling up Bai friendship stock ahead of the inevitable bull market. (ie: the status quo is untenable and ES can profit from TL's inevitable resurgence)

I think Shenhua explicitly states intent to use the Bai as a counterbalance to Zheng interference. But interference in what? The capital? Cause thats the only border they have in common with TL. Hard for non-adjacent Zheng to flex on ES domestic interests.

And, MOI worthy interstate interference / counterbalancing is above Shenhua's paygrade right? Celestial peaks gains obvious benefits to maintining hegemony and employs MOI to that end.

Sun and Bai each try to make everyone else hate their enemy. But Shenhua's like, hmmm, this duchy and this duchy should be about thiiiiis strong.

What business / end goal does the greenest duke with the most volatile duchy (ie: least stable power base) have in trying to manage the relative power of 1/3 of the empire? (ES, ER, TL = 3 of 8 provinces yeah)
 
... now I'm more confused. Shenhua supporting Bai to keep Zheng from eventually supporting / avenging Bai?

I dun think her realignment talk is just about gobbling up Bai friendship stock ahead of the inevitable bull market. (ie: the status quo is untenable and ES can profit from TL's inevitable resurgence)

I think Shenhua explicitly states intent to use the Bai as a counterbalance to Zheng interference. But interference in what? The capital? Cause thats the only border they have in common with TL. Hard for non-adjacent Zheng to flex on ES domestic interests.

And, MOI worthy interstate interference / counterbalancing is above Shenhua's paygrade right? Celestial peaks gains obvious benefits to maintining hegemony and employs MOI to that end.

Sun and Bai each try to make everyone else hate their enemy. But Shenhua's like, hmmm, this duchy and this duchy should be about thiiiiis strong.

What business / end goal does the greenest duke with the most volatile duchy (ie: least stable power base) have in trying to manage the relative power of 1/3 of the empire? (ES, ER, TL = 3 of 8 provinces yeah)
Shenhua knew that the Bai were going to recover no matter what anybody did, so she decided to help them and get an alliance out of the inevitable resurgence.
 
... now I'm more confused. Shenhua supporting Bai to keep Zheng from eventually supporting / avenging Bai?

I dun think her realignment talk is just about gobbling up Bai friendship stock ahead of the inevitable bull market. (ie: the status quo is untenable and ES can profit from TL's inevitable resurgence)

I think Shenhua explicitly states intent to use the Bai as a counterbalance to Zheng interference. But interference in what? The capital? Cause thats the only border they have in common with TL. Hard for non-adjacent Zheng to flex on ES domestic interests.

And, MOI worthy interstate interference / counterbalancing is above Shenhua's paygrade right? Celestial peaks gains obvious benefits to maintining hegemony and employs MOI to that end.

Sun and Bai each try to make everyone else hate their enemy. But Shenhua's like, hmmm, this duchy and this duchy should be about thiiiiis strong.

What business / end goal does the greenest duke with the most volatile duchy (ie: least stable power base) have in trying to manage the relative power of 1/3 of the empire? (ES, ER, TL = 3 of 8 provinces yeah)
Shenhua explicitly states that the MOI was supposed to counter balance Zheng interference with Bai suppression. That didn't work because Jiao quit. Now the CP can't suppress the Bai, because Zheng would interfere with it, and so the Bai are making a comeback. She said nothing about Her being the counter balance to the Zheng.

She is not trying to manage the power balance between 1/3 of the Empire, she is striking a beneficial alliance because there is the chance to. As Shenhua states, the friendship with Meizhen offered a chink in the uncaring armor of the Bai. A chink she wedged open to get the alliance she wants.
 
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