- Location
- Leeds
9 Is meaningless, G3 means third stage of Green. Or possibly that you're starting a rip off games expo.
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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I personally always do the calculation from ex. Potency 9 minus 6 for Red through Yellow and then just hold Green 3 in my head anyway. There isn't a scenario where I don't read Potency 9 as Potency G3 and I can't imagine this will change as the system develops. It's like why we don't have Lung and Heart Meridians anymore when you might as well say Support, only at least the Meridians have lore whereas Potency numbers are purely mechanical.
- Location
- the internet
Cultivation coding is better for sure!! It actually makes a big difference for me tbh.Thanks for the feedback guys.
One question for you regarding Potency numbers, do you think its more quester legible to render them as a straight number eg. 9 or with cultivation coding eg. G3
I definitely prefer the narrative flavor that cultivation coding provides.
But if the question is "Which is more quester legible?" It's probably numbers hand down.
Since you can't actually even begin to explain what the coding represents to a new quester without resorting to numbers, which by extension means that's the more clear way to represent the stats.
But if the question is "Which is more quester legible?" It's probably numbers hand down.
Since you can't actually even begin to explain what the coding represents to a new quester without resorting to numbers, which by extension means that's the more clear way to represent the stats.
I think it's supposed to be with intent?
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
One question for you regarding Potency numbers, do you think its more quester legible to render them as a straight number eg. 9 or with cultivation coding eg. G3
Personally I prefer the second (G3 system). While the translation isn't hard, I prefer the easier division of levels. G3 just makes more intuitive sense to me.
EDIT: to add onto what I was saying before, as we move further and further up the levels, the numbers will continue getting bigger which can make translations harder, especially as the divisions between different realms starts to mean more. That is +1 right now means a lot less than +1 if we're in cyan or much less prism. Thus, have the G3 (or I4 or P7) just makes that all a little simpler to follow and understand the relavence therein.
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Is anyone else having issues with the threadmark system? It seems like everything after turn 12 arc 5 seems to be out of order.
Huh, yeah, you're right. Weird.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
It seems if you click on the threadmark tab everything is displayed correctly. Hovering over it messes up the latest arcs.
It's really weird - if you look at the dropdown then the threadmarks are in the right order, but the titles are wrong.
If you go into the tab, then the titles are in the right order, but the actual threadmarks aren't the correct ones.
If you go into the threadmarks themselves though then clicking next threadmark will show them to be out of order.
If you go into the tab, then the titles are in the right order, but the actual threadmarks aren't the correct ones.
If you go into the threadmarks themselves though then clicking next threadmark will show them to be out of order.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Alright confess. Who enacted dark rituals to get Yrs to update on his off week?
TimEd
Meteor maker
without intent
It is meant to mean that Ling Qi needs to actively will herself to be able to explicitly lie. Since she is emulating Spirits which aren't supposed to be able to speak blatant falsehoods.
Alright, let's look at the Domain and Concept stuff.
Most of these all work really well imo, and I like them. There are a few interesting points though. [Cycles] in FSS is something I don't know if LQ has really looked at at all? It's not really present in her Zeqing tribulation and arguments at all - that's more Endings -> new possibilities. That being said, it is something we've talked about a lot, and all the other things I can think of like "beginnings" "opportunity" etc. are kind of being addressed by [Creation] anyway. The season metaphor is in the Insight, so it's a solid move I think.
[Isolation] is interesting just because I think we've framed it more as [Loneliness] up to now? Isolation works well though, and perhaps better encapsulates the broader point, so I think this works well.
[Expression] in HDW is interesting. Like, I get how [Expression] comes from the Art itself, but its relevance to the insight there is less clear to me? [Connections] seems to be getting stuck into [Community] to a degree though...
The TRF insight is perhaps the most interesting though, and is also the one that I'd actually disagree with. [Courage] is interesting. I wouldn't have thought of it, but thinking about it, and how the insight is very much about LQ and the idea of principles, it makes sense - she relates to them a lot through fear, and so having the courage to resist that and stand by her friends etc. is important, and that makes it fit well imo. [Life] I'm not sure about? It feels a bit like an Art-not-Insight-concept like HDW and [Expression]? Maybe it's meaning it a bit in a the miraculous resilience and life-finds-a-way-ness of life? Dunno.
The one I actually question though is [Implacability]. It just doesn't really feel right for LQ imo? It's also been applied to Zhengui, and I don't see that at all either. It feels like it's there because of the recent UGM stuff, but I don't see how it fits that narrative? We were trying to relate UGM to Zhengui through the potential lens of [Renewal], which is very different.
I get the idea [Implacability] seems to be trying to relate to - it's the TRU, Unbroken Will, immovable indomitable determination stuff. But I don't feel that [Implacability] describes that right. Like, the insight there, TRU, and LQ's behaviour around things like taking that knife and getting Unbroken Will - and her earlier failure with the King of the Forest - are defensive. It's about not giving up, about not failing herself and her friends, about standing by her principles (which basically means her friends), about not losing. I would describe it more as a mixture of shounen determination and Ling Qi's moral code. And it's not really aggressive.
If we look at the definition of "Implacable" though, we get:
adjective. not to be appeased, mollified, or pacified; inexorable: an implacable enemy.
which doesn't really fit I feel. It's the glacier carving out a valley, rather than the great tree standing with its roots unbroken. They're not really the same. I'd suggest something like [Conviction] instead - though @AbeoLogos has suggested [Enduring] which could also work with the more principled stuff being handled by [Courage] perhaps.
Zhengui too, I just don't see how [Implacablity] fits at all. At the same time, he isn't giving bonuses to Life/Growth/Vitality, which I would have thought would have fit much better? I'd go with one of those instead imo.
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Finally then, looking at our Spirit bonuses (or boni if you will), Sixiang is a little interesting, having both [Expression] and [Music]... The question I'd ask @yrsillar is what the difference between those is intended to be? Historically we've used Expression as just the broader category of which Music is a component - it feels like most of the time [Music] is probably going to be redundant there? The only music-but-not-expression art I could think of would maybe be our modded RME which I can't remember the new name of?
The other problem I can potentially see with the limited spirit keywords is just if/when we get new keywords that clearly fit those spirits but aren't on the list. Like, if we were to get a [Winter] art I would say it would be weird if Hanyi didn't give bonuses to it - but she doesn't have that keyword. I would personal advocate for flexibility in this regard.
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And lastly lastly. We have one more new insight that isn't on the list yet, our new: The future changes with every step, never be certain you know what is coming
What concepts do people think would fit this one? [Causality] would be an obvious pick from our current options I think?. I could also maybe see [Motion]? What I think I'd suggest though in terms of new concepts would be [Knowledge] and [Mystery/Uncertainty].
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I understand what you mean by redundancy, but I feel like this could be a kind of situation you run into in games sometimes where you get a buff for something that is split between multiple parts, but still focused on one subject. For instance say you get a Ring of Fire Power that has two buffs, a small buff to general magic power or mana capacity to show that stronger magic is stronger magic and then a larger buff directly to the strength of fire spells.
That's kind of how I see Six, they're a spirit of Expression that specializes in Music so they provide a buff to both.
Speaking of Motion, it's a little odd to me that it's listed as Motion I, especially when contrasted to the Implacability II(which I agree with Erebeal seems off in the first place.
Motion is one of the longest-standing subjects of philosophical meditation in the quest, owing to how it's been paired with the SCS->LFWT art tree. [Sabel Grace] is intrinsically an expression of the concept Motion, and it's our primary movement trait. Following unlocking that trait, we then got into the abstract vision-quest style cultivation session for LFWT which seemed to resonate with Ling Qi deeply and even matches the tone of Motion's current flavor text. Ling Qi is also just a notably fast and mobile character; it's a defining character trait. She feels more like a Motion II to me.
Freedom I also seems a bit weak to me considering how much anti-capture/slow/compulsion effects Ling Qi has in her Domain, but I guess that also fits into her conception of Power, and she's been kinda ambivalent on Freedom so being less developed is probably fine?
On Implacability, I kinda just don't know what to make of it. I know it's Ling Qi's stubbornness and determination and all of that, and it's related to [Unbroken Will] but then.. what? There's apparently overlap with Zhengui too, but I don't really know what it means. And in terms of the arts at our disposal, I'm a bit nervous. The arts that jump to mind with the concept are UGM and maaaybe SNR, but are those good prompt sources? UGM is fundamentally offensive, which seems likely to put meditations on Implacability at odds with the nature of our Implacable trait and spirit companion. As a Cold art, it's also tentatively tied up with narratives of the south and the people there, but pursuing that would also drag things entirely away from Zhengui. I don't think UGM's worth entertaining, full stop. SNR is a stretch in the first place and would have similar issues of cutting off opportunities if pursued.
Which I guess brings me to broader concerns about the materials we have to work with. I fully sympathize with not wanting archive votes or the like. However, a good chunk of our arts are thematically confused for Ling Qi, and we were kind of in the process of dumping them? It's really hard to simultaneously explore conceptually, from a limited pool, that a large pool of is already considered unsuitable. For example, there's structural room for [Unbroken Will] to be developed into something drawing inspiration from Zhengui's own approach to armor, and there's apparently conceptual crossover to support it, even if I'm skeptical of the specific "Implacability" expression. But there's no real room for that in the arts we have at our disposal.
The new system gives us a lot more control and clarity, and that's great. But it's still in the context of the unclear choices (and sometimes not even choices) we made under the old system. In that sense the new system, alone, doesn't provide obvious remedy for the thread correct some things it might consider mistakes. The opportunity for course corrections is limited by the materials we have to work with, some of which might be what we're trying to correct away from! Which is just something I think it's smart to keep in mind as we're exploring the new system.
Motion is one of the longest-standing subjects of philosophical meditation in the quest, owing to how it's been paired with the SCS->LFWT art tree. [Sabel Grace] is intrinsically an expression of the concept Motion, and it's our primary movement trait. Following unlocking that trait, we then got into the abstract vision-quest style cultivation session for LFWT which seemed to resonate with Ling Qi deeply and even matches the tone of Motion's current flavor text. Ling Qi is also just a notably fast and mobile character; it's a defining character trait. She feels more like a Motion II to me.
Freedom I also seems a bit weak to me considering how much anti-capture/slow/compulsion effects Ling Qi has in her Domain, but I guess that also fits into her conception of Power, and she's been kinda ambivalent on Freedom so being less developed is probably fine?
On Implacability, I kinda just don't know what to make of it. I know it's Ling Qi's stubbornness and determination and all of that, and it's related to [Unbroken Will] but then.. what? There's apparently overlap with Zhengui too, but I don't really know what it means. And in terms of the arts at our disposal, I'm a bit nervous. The arts that jump to mind with the concept are UGM and maaaybe SNR, but are those good prompt sources? UGM is fundamentally offensive, which seems likely to put meditations on Implacability at odds with the nature of our Implacable trait and spirit companion. As a Cold art, it's also tentatively tied up with narratives of the south and the people there, but pursuing that would also drag things entirely away from Zhengui. I don't think UGM's worth entertaining, full stop. SNR is a stretch in the first place and would have similar issues of cutting off opportunities if pursued.
Which I guess brings me to broader concerns about the materials we have to work with. I fully sympathize with not wanting archive votes or the like. However, a good chunk of our arts are thematically confused for Ling Qi, and we were kind of in the process of dumping them? It's really hard to simultaneously explore conceptually, from a limited pool, that a large pool of is already considered unsuitable. For example, there's structural room for [Unbroken Will] to be developed into something drawing inspiration from Zhengui's own approach to armor, and there's apparently conceptual crossover to support it, even if I'm skeptical of the specific "Implacability" expression. But there's no real room for that in the arts we have at our disposal.
The new system gives us a lot more control and clarity, and that's great. But it's still in the context of the unclear choices (and sometimes not even choices) we made under the old system. In that sense the new system, alone, doesn't provide obvious remedy for the thread correct some things it might consider mistakes. The opportunity for course corrections is limited by the materials we have to work with, some of which might be what we're trying to correct away from! Which is just something I think it's smart to keep in mind as we're exploring the new system.
Mystery would be good because I want that anyway, for Hidden Moon reasons.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Causality for sure. But, hrm. The thing I like about it is a sort of humility: not getting too locked-in on your vision on How Things Are Gonna Be. Mystery is sort of that. But maybe [Flexibility]? That could merge with [Motion] eventually.
Fair, yeah.
Hmmm.... [Resilience] is related but not really the same thing. [Stand] could sound vaguely dramatically anime in the right way possibly, but also probably a bit vague... [Unbreaking] maybe?
- Location
- United States of America
[Unyielding] is also an option.
yeah, it's interesting to think about the subtle distinctions between those concepts.
[Unyielding] is more "don't move at all", while [Unbreaking] maybe fits the "bend to a degree, but not so far you break" idea in the Insight a bit more completely?
[Enduring] is I guess more the idea of "withstanding and weathering adversity over time", while [Resilience] is more "the ability to not break and recover from adversity"?
[Unyielding] is more "don't move at all", while [Unbreaking] maybe fits the "bend to a degree, but not so far you break" idea in the Insight a bit more completely?
[Enduring] is I guess more the idea of "withstanding and weathering adversity over time", while [Resilience] is more "the ability to not break and recover from adversity"?