Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Mystery... yes.

So, time to bounce a couple of ideas around about SNR. Is this a non-sequitur? No, no it is not.

Here it is in its current iteration.



Now, as Ling Qi has noted here:

Starlight Night's Reflection doesn't feel quite right to her. That's fine, perfectly acceptable for a new clan to struggle in getting their arts set up and working right. Some never do it. I think we can though. It'll just take... a bit of tweaking.

The first issue I see is the keyword "Stillness" which seems to create the Antithesis keyword "Motion." This has some problems with it, given that Ling Qi likes motion, it is one of our possible conceptual projects after all, and we don't particularly like stillness. Certainly not an insurmountable problem, in fact, I want to overcome it, but a problem nonetheless. But how do we go about doing that? Well, that depends on if this system has ways to modify and expand arts after completing them, which given Yrs previous comments on the thread (which I can't find, unfortunately) about Ling Qi working on expanding existing arts instead of getting more arts, seems likely.

Now, changing SNR has been bounced around by a lot of people. I think that the current iteration I am advocating for was first proposed by Abeo, but I'm not sure. Either way, here it is.

Work on making SNR more about the endless, mysterious forests of the Emerald Sea rather than the bottomless lakes of the Thousand Lakes. To do this, I would replace the "Stillness" keyword with the "Mystery" keyword, the "Reflections" keyword with "Growth" (or something else, haven't really worked on what to replace Reflections with) and replace the Lake element with the Wood element.

The goal with these changes would be to reflect a contemplation of the Emerald Sea's endless forests, that when you strike into the darkness you never know if you hit anything or if your actions had any impact on the forest itself. The changes seek to provide the answer to the quandary "if a tree fell in a forest and no one was there to hear, did it make a sound" by answering "No." It would seek to tell the attacker that if they are not sure their attack had an impact on Ling Qi, then it did not. This type of change would move away from the serenity and tranquility of SNR's contemplation and more towards the sheer vastness of the forest and how no single action can make a meaningful impact on it.

These changes, I feel, would remove many of the problematic and troublesome aspects of SNR that don't quite fit into where Ling Qi is going and refurbish it with interesting new means of providing armor that feel more in line with Ling Qi herself. This is why I am extremely excited that "Mystery" has been added to our domain as a possible concept to explore. A very cool addition to SNR in my opinion!
I think rather than Stillness, maybe Tranquility would fit better. SNR is about how a lake won't be damaged, worn down or even react to attacks beyond ripples in the surface. It takes it and doesn't care, which is strength Ling Qi appreciates. But Ling Qi isn't that arrogant, she would like the invulnerability Bai Meizhen cultivates but she fundamentally accepts that hurt, cold, and struggle are inescapable facets of life. So maybe she shouldn't strive to be aloof but to instead seek the essence of escaping suffering, because that's what she Wants and why she needs Power.

A roiling mist also won't be damaged, worn down or react to attacks beyond ripples in the surface. The Thousand Year Impenetrable Mist tech from our Domain is basically a mist version of SNR without Stillness, that flows to isolate and protect our loved ones from the world. It represents our desire for safety, peace and persistence with a healthy balance of Stillness and Motion, because for all that Ling Qi loves excitement she also loves a peaceful day with her family. We seek balance between Silence and Song, War and Peace, Freedom and Connections, Community and Isolation, Motion and Stillness, Chaos and Tranquility, because life needs contrasts and balance to be full.
 
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I am super excited for the new system. I think the change in how social arts function is inspired. Not only because it allows us to pursue more social skills for our diplomacy job, but also because it applies a ready answer to the question about what arts common cultivators would use. These arts don't take meridians, which is a huge plus, and still allow useful skills to be transferred. These arts are likely the key to the common production cultivators, like the Ma twin's dad.

There could be an entire market for these types of arts. Green versions give better skills, but if these arts are possible in yellow, or even red, than I imagine it is these skill granting arts that are the lifeblood of common cultivator clans, especially if the clan is focused on a skill, like pottery or woodworking.
 
Of note is that Power is surprisingly quick for LQ to level now. She has two bonus successes to it, one from Fang and one from Zhengui, equal to Expression, which has two bonuses from Sixiang and Hanyi.
 
Alright, so I am going to make a push for understanding BKSD more once the next plan vote comes. It's hidden trait looks like it could push our damage to the next level while dovetailing nicely into a discussion on the escalating war.
 
Looking at the arts, we only have a single finisher and that's Call to Ending. Do we have any arts that will give us a new Finisher?
 
does Ling Qi only have 15 meridians in the new system and she can add more freely until she reaches the fifties?
No. Ling Qi has reached the point where keep track of individual meridians, from a game perspective, is no longer helpful. Meridians have now been grouped into different groups. It will likely take a project to increase our slots in a group.
 
Winter Hearth Resounding said:
An old art developed by the clans of southern emerald seas, during the age of civil strife. A meditation on the nature of home and family created during the long winters which once plagued the hills of the province. This art offers few stand alone techniques, and instead focuses on effects which bolster other arts.

Potency Increase: 0/3
Balanced, Cold, Fire, Music
Keywords: Boundary, Home, Renewal
Antithesis: Liminal, Wilds, Ending
Art Type: Support

Passive Effects:
+1 to Primary Armor Trait
Your presence is a warm fire to your allies, a salve against wounds and exhaustion, your music beats back against the cold world, and shelter from harm.


Burning Hearth, Winter Wind: G3
Type: Support
Upkeep 1
Through the reverberations of this technique, cultivators' Music arts are altered subtly. Manifesting as a faint background support to a song, melody or composition granting it greater depth and complexity. Among you and your allies, techniques which would be indiscriminate in target instead subtly avoid friendly fire, and dispels of lesser potency fail against you.


Frozen Walls, Homely Keep: G5
Type: Support
Duration: Scene
Focusing their conception of hearth and home upon a single location or themselves, the cultivator calls forth a potent warmth that enwraps allies and a frozen chill that assaults invaders. The Qi potency of you and your allies is increased by 1, and your enemies reduced by 1.
I'm confused that WHR has Renewal as a keyword already? Renewal doesn't fit with its narrative. The philosophical construction of the art is a static bulwark against encroaching cold, it isn't advancing to reclaim land or renewing anything that's been lost, really. It's security and survival. Looking at other keywords, I'd use them before Renewal for the art: Enduring, Persistence, Revitalization.

Keep in mind we haven't yet made changes to the art based on inspiration from Zhengui, so that can't explain Renewal being in the art. To the extent WHR has Renewal, it's also very much not like Zhengui's, which is off since he basically defines the concept in the narrative. Considering that a lot of the art project's value is tied up in the act of transforming the art using Zhengui as inspiration/a template, it's very weird for it to already have Renewal. That just undercuts the impact. Especially when the existing themes in the art that might justify its presence don't map to Zhengui's Renewal at all. There'd be greater clarity twisting concepts that aren't supposed to already embody Renewal into Renewal. More contrast for a clearer picture of what we're doing and how it serves the conceptional link to Zhengui.

Also, here's what a Renewal art actually looks like:
Undying Hearth's Embers said:
If fueled, even the tiniest spark may leap back to roaring life. Through careful regulation of the flows of ones qi a practitioner of this art may prevent their techniques from being wholly snuffed out, and recover even when driven into a corner. The users compositions are lent a faint reverberating quality, showing that they will last beyond the fading of the initial notes.

Base Potency G3
Wood, Balanced
Keywords: Home, Persistence, Expression
Antithesis: Ending, Isolation, Silence
Art Type: Support
I'm not actually a fan of the art, but its narrative actually fits the concept of Renewal. So does Primeval Grove Reverberation, but that doesn't seem to have been translated into the new system for some reason, even though it's the same age and more popular.

To be honest, the way the system lets us actually aim at things coherently and intentionally, at least compared to before, it's kind of a shame we're working in WHR on our Zhengui project in the first place. There's just... more suitable materials, sitting right there. But we're already mid-arc so, I dunno.
 
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This shift is an incredibly interesting one, and opens up a lot of exciting questions while simplifying and improving accessibility. Well done!

I've always been someone that views the mechanics as approximations of information available in world expressed through numbers as we as readers cannot possibly "feel" the strength or potency of a given Technique or Art. A quantification that allows us to better interact with the cultivator world Ling Qi inhabits. Additionally, the budgeting and accounting matters are explicit quantifications done by the questers and Ling Qi in order for her to better interact with her world.

As we shift from the old system (a very numbers-centric accounting style) to the new system (a more flexible philosophical based style) I wonder how much of this shift will be reflected in the narrative? I think it'd make good sense for the Imperial Standard to teach a numbers-oriented system to beginners in order to promote forward cultivation as opposed to endless philosophical congestion. The Imperial (Heavenly Peaks) System churns out high numbers of effectively engaged cultivators who are grounded in reality and excellent at their specialty.

Math provides discrete answers at the ends of equations. Philosophy is much more open-ended, having a practical infinite number of answers.

What I'm basically wondering is:
Will our upcoming interlude with Sixiang narratively touch on the shifts occurring to the mechanics? Will our shifting understanding and ability to interact with the world be mirrored by a shift in LQ's understanding? I hope so, given that the "Project Plans" are significantly different than the budgeting plans and the meridian rigidity is significantly different than the new system of flexible meridians.

Every part of the mechanical changes can be explained by Sixiang talking to LQ about a more theory and philosophical based cultivation approach rather than the ruthlessly practical and results-oriented approach of our earlier cultivation. Six would have access to these ideas as a Muse as well as being a shard of Grandma Dreamer (who has been active for who knows how long in Emerald Seas) and I think they make a fine contrast to the Imperial Standardized nuts-n-bolts number-centric mechanics of the earlier stages.

It wouldn't be impossible for someone raised in a non-imperial style to climb ranks, but Math has discrete answers whereas philosophy has a functional infinite set of answers to them. Much harder and longer to climb when the question isn't "how 2 shoot fire and kill barb" and it's "but what sort of life do you want to live in the long term".

The simple reason for the Imperial Standard for red and yellow is that it's practical and has good results, while Green and beyond require non-standardized individual exploration and self-determination of a spiritual nature
 
This type of change would move away from the serenity and tranquility of SNR's contemplation and more towards the sheer vastness of the forest and how no single action can make a meaningful impact on it.
I'd typed out a whole "but in-setting lots of people can destroy forests and LQ knows many of them!" comment, but then I remembered that in-story we know two forests:
  • One of them is the Emerald Seas capital, and its tree has outlasted and endured the efforts of multiple Whites and post-Whites trying to attack it and kill its inhabitants
  • The other one is a jungle, and it grew back from being entirely burned to shreds by a post-White Dragon
So in this story people can move mountains and shatter peaks, but forests are OP? The story literally takes place in a forested province with woodlands so old and massive the whole place is called "Emerald Seas"...
@yrsillar, admit it! You're a tree-hugger! I'm betting you prefer elves to dwarves too!
 
I really like the new system update, I think it will be much easier for us to influence how Ling Qi progresses now.

Also with relation to the heart demon, I noticed some interesting things. First off, both Isolation and Community are at stage III with community unable to progress right now. We have isolation in our insights once (presenting something of beauty in the end.), and community twice (sincerety and footsteps). Meanwhile, in our equipped arts, notice how HDW has expression, community, and truth as keywords. It also has isolation as anthesis. Ling Qi understands isolation well, she grew up in isolation after all. I suspect that the two interfere with each other, that Ling Qi's deep personal understanding is why isolation currently gets priority over community, and that this is the root cause of our heart demon. We've made both isolation and community key parts of our way, but we are only able to advance one of them because the concepts are anathema to each other.

(This is of course just a theory, I might be totally wrong)
 
In response to the debate on what to replace Implacability with, what about Defiance? It might not be the right fit, Endurance or Perseverance might be more suiting.
 
One thing that went unanswered in the new system is, are successor arts still a thing?
They definitely are. They are still something we need to get to G6. I'm pretty sure that the changes were at least partially made with successors in mind. The plan is still to make a FSS successor as soon as we find a good place for the narrative arc that it will create.
 
So in this story people can move mountains and shatter peaks, but forests are OP?
"And then they cleared a forest easily and with no consequences" doesn't get a lot of attention in history books. There was some forest clearing on the way south to the Ice Ladies, and that was only some minor trouble, but it was only the focus of attention for a scene or two.
 
We have two other offensive arts. BKSD and UGM. My gut tells me that BKSD is the best chance to get a finisher, given that it has the power keyword, but I am just guessing.
I wouldn't think UGM is the best pick for a finisher, yeah. The glacier's march is unstoppable, but not so fast you can't retreat. It's only when your back is to the wall and there's no escape that you're finished - and that doesn't really call for a specific explicit move.
 
Concept Insights - Domain Insights

Truth
Community x2
Home
Cycles
Ending
Creation
Expression x2
Isolation
Want
Power
Motion
Freedom
Persistance
Courage
Growth
Causality x2
Mystery
Chaos


Cultivation Key words
Mystery
Expression
Motion

Equipped Key Words
Chaos, Dream, Revelry
Reflections, Stillness, Void
Endings, Isolation, Want
Expression, Community, Truth
Mystery, Fate, Expression
Memory, Occlusion, Mystery
Beasts, Conquest, Power
Bargaining, Sincerity, Understanding
Freedom, Motion, Want
Boundary, Home, Renewal
Expression, Inevitability, Pressure

Chaos
Dream
Revelry
Reflections
Stillness
Void
Endings
Isolation
Want
Expression x3
Community
Truth
Mystery x2
Fate
Memory
Occlusion
Beasts
Conquest
Power
Bargaining
Sincerity
Understanding
Freedom
Motion
Want
Boundary
Home
Renewal
Inevitability
Pressure


Equipped Anthesis Words
Clarity, Destiny, Order
Motion, Energy, Clarity
Creation, Community, Contentment
Deceit, Isolation, Silence
Chaos, Occlusion, Ignorance
Truth, Clarity, Firmament
Tranquility, Stillness, Humanity
Deceit, Ignorance, Power
Bondage, Stillness, Contentment
Liminal, Wilds, Ending
Stasis, Chaos, Stillness

Clarity x3
Destiny
Order
Motion
Energy
Creation
Community
Contentment x2
Deceit
Isolation
Silence
Chaos x2
Occlusion
Ignorance
Truth
Firmament
Tranquility
Stillness x3
Humanity
Deceit
Ignorance
Power
Bondage
Liminal
Wilds
Endings
Stasis

Here is a list of the Keywords that I found in our currently equipped arts, cultivation art, and domain, including the anthesis of those arts. Following the art section of the keywords is a more organized list where duplicates/triplicates are joined together. Why did I do this? I thought it would be interesting, and it does seem like it is.

A couple of takeaways. For our domain, We have the Causality, Expression, and Community are the keywords that pop up the most often, two apiece. Other than that, we have a fairly large spread of keywords, but there are some potent ideas that are within it. It'll be interesting focusing on refining and developing where we want Ling Qi to go with this.

Cultivation Art doesn't have much to say. Expression, Mystery, Motion fit fairly well with Dreaming, Hidden, and Grinning moons.

The most intriguing area is in the equipped arts section, both the keywords and the anthesis to our arts. Mystery and Expression are the two most prevalent keywords, being at 2 and 3 respectively. Widespread otherwise, with some good overlap for our domain insight keywords.

Anthesis has a stacked section. Clarity, Contentment, Chaos, and Stillness (3, 2, 2, 3 respectively) are the keywords that our arts dislike the most.

I hope that this is some useful information for discussion! On another topic, I'm super excited for a liminal journey that is coming up!
 
Another thing: LQ now has two open slots, one Offense and one Support.

I'd like to start cultivating Vengeful River King's Grasp for the Offense slot, given that it has Power and Motion, both of which are prominent keywords for LQ.

I'm not very enthused about the arts she's currently aware of for the empty Support slot.
 
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