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We haven't learned it yet. We can unlock it by completing this project:
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
We haven't learned it yet. We can unlock it by completing this project:
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
PLR has some really good stuff. Unfortunately the joyous toast upgrade, which I think is the best, has community attached to it and community is currently being blocked by our heart demon and I don't want to loose a concept boost to it.
In this snippit the heart demon is being more annoying than it has since it was introduced.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
That does sound interesting...but darn, all the other PLR projects sound juicy too. I'm personally more interested in Phantasmal Mastery since it gives us a trait that's relevant to our build
- Location
- the internet
Ahhh brain fart. Sorry I bothered you with that, Yrs.
*Goes somewhere to hide for 10 minutes*
That... sounds like a system problem actually.
Like, examining things like that should be part of addressing the heart demon. Not examining the philosophical questions currently being challenged because it would cause us to lose progress strikes me as the opposite of how you want the incentives to work.
I guess if heart demon progress was tied more to our actions here, I'd say that it should *require* us to cultivate those things in order to try to unblock it, and that if we didn't then we could end up with it permanently stuck.
Also, why is only Community blocked? What about Want or Power? They were involved too!
PLR has come a long way from it's days as a superfluous art
This seems to be one of the chokes on Qi's Community, Home and Truth concepts. She can expect to have more difficulties down the line, unless she can communicate effectively.
Though thats more on the Applied concept level since this is one of her highest concepts.
Very useful conceptual glue(and probably one of the ways to mitigate the inflexibilities of higher stages later). Though I think she needs some Creation to cycle with her Endings before its likely to get anywhere.
"We live in a society".
One of the things Qi hadn't really been paying a lot of attention to for a long time, the solitude such that she cannot see that she's alone within a crowd.
But can't advance effectively until the Community heart demon is untangled.
This had me at the flexibility of summon techniques. That sounds like expanding upon "constructs maul you from the mists/abducted by improperly dressed satyrs/wisps stare at you" to full on utility phantasms? Can we have waif-Qi maids at parties?
Qi uses a lot of summon effects, so this is great.
This looks like a good tie in for Soul of Ice quest if we can snag the Void concept. Also seems like this might be one of the engines driving the Bai counters. Sending attacks into the Void, would swallow anything with any substance after all.
What lies at the heart of Isolation and Want is that the void seeks to be filled but can never be satiated. What lies past the Ending and absolute Freedom.
Definitely a potent concept, though I suspect actually going far into it might not be desirable.
But then the same can be said for anything else we cultivate.
So...this sounds like fun with Phantasmal Mastery.
Maybe the Bear God can lift too.
I want to see the story behind this one a lot.
Xiangmen does not give a fuck.
Juxtaposition of diplomacy and defense? How do you defend against a force without cutting yourself off from it or being hostile to it?
Certainly there is no point in raging against the cold of Winter, or the storms of Spring.
What were the passives again?
PROBABLY want our pins lined up for the trait quest chain. Flesh out the concepts that it'd involve first
Seems a little sparse compared to the combaty stuff?
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
A possible solution is to have a heart demon project that we can't interact with but that absorbs points spent on select concepts until it meets a target and is resolved. Hmmm... Sounds a bit finicky but would at least give us reason to pursue blocked projects.That... sounds like a system problem actually.
Like, examining things like that should be part of addressing the heart demon. Not examining the philosophical questions currently being challenged because it would cause us to lose progress strikes me as the opposite of how you want the incentives to work.
I guess if heart demon progress was tied more to our actions here, I'd say that it should *require* us to cultivate those things in order to try to unblock it, and that if we didn't then we could end up with it permanently stuck.
Also, why is only Community blocked? What about Want or Power? They were involved too!
But yes, it does seem strange that we get punished for pursuing concepts blocked by the heart demon when intuitively pursueing those projects would help us resolve the demon.
Ah, right. @qazcdewsx just pointed out on discord that @yrsillar said progress would probably just be banked until we get it unblocked? Though obviously the systems stuff is a bit in the air atm.
I'd hope for that really, since currently Dreaming (SSC), Echoing Grandeur (PLR), Raising the Bastion (MoSS), and Kindle the Hearth (WHR) are being blocked by the Heart Demon. And while I don't think there's any immediate call for Dreaming or Raising the Bastion, Echoing Grandeur feels to me like it would be a good project for trying to work on the Heart Demon, while Kindle the Hearth is the obvious Zhengui WHR project for that arc we're in the middle of.
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Ok, so there's a million super cool projects and we want them all. But the question we should probably be asking is what are we currently dealing with? What are our current needs? And what synergies are there?
We're currently in the pre-tournament arc, so we want to prep for that.
In terms of immediate events, we've got Sixiang Dream quest, Hanyi's concert, and ofc there's the ongoing Zhengui arc.
We've also got the heart demon overhanging all of that.
Heart demon locking mechanics dependent, but my favoured plan would be something like Echoing Grandeur, Kindle the Hearth, and Hidden Smiles.
Hidden Smiles is, ofc, tournament arc social prep as people have noted. It could also bounce quite well off Hanyi's concert, which is also a social event?
Kindle the Hearth looks to me like the obvious Zhengui project in WHR, so it feels like a natural pickup assuming we're still doing that arc. Also not a bad tech to pick up, even if it's transparently copying from Undying Hearth's Embers
Echoing Grandeur I like because I feel it could help tackle the issues of the heart demon around how LQ is relating to power and community. It's looking at the ideas of how you draw power from others, and how the support of others is important. It's also tying things into music and how that relates to connecting with other people as well, and the use of her music to gain social influence and power beyond just killing people is something LQ is sort of having troubles with. I think it could also play well off both the Dream adventure, as well as Hanyi's concert.
Also I really want LQ to hold a concert (tournament arc would be a good time~) called Journey to the South for PR purposes, and this could help with that
So yeah, that's a much more character development and immediate narrative focused plan rather than necessarily going for some of the coolest power boosts. But I think we are in a bit of a character-development focused arc set at the moment, and it feels like a good time for these things?
We're currently in the pre-tournament arc, so we want to prep for that.
In terms of immediate events, we've got Sixiang Dream quest, Hanyi's concert, and ofc there's the ongoing Zhengui arc.
We've also got the heart demon overhanging all of that.
Heart demon locking mechanics dependent, but my favoured plan would be something like Echoing Grandeur, Kindle the Hearth, and Hidden Smiles.
Hidden Smiles is, ofc, tournament arc social prep as people have noted. It could also bounce quite well off Hanyi's concert, which is also a social event?
Kindle the Hearth looks to me like the obvious Zhengui project in WHR, so it feels like a natural pickup assuming we're still doing that arc. Also not a bad tech to pick up, even if it's transparently copying from Undying Hearth's Embers
Echoing Grandeur I like because I feel it could help tackle the issues of the heart demon around how LQ is relating to power and community. It's looking at the ideas of how you draw power from others, and how the support of others is important. It's also tying things into music and how that relates to connecting with other people as well, and the use of her music to gain social influence and power beyond just killing people is something LQ is sort of having troubles with. I think it could also play well off both the Dream adventure, as well as Hanyi's concert.
Also I really want LQ to hold a concert (tournament arc would be a good time~) called Journey to the South for PR purposes, and this could help with that
So yeah, that's a much more character development and immediate narrative focused plan rather than necessarily going for some of the coolest power boosts. But I think we are in a bit of a character-development focused arc set at the moment, and it feels like a good time for these things?
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
@yrsillar shouldn't BKSD have Music as one of the keywords?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Shouldn't we have something to represent Ling Qi's ability to speak, listen and see at a distance? Say Expanded Presence. Or something. She has put quite a bit of effort into being able to keep track of everything that happens around her.
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I think phantasamal mastery is the best. Ling Qi has a ton of summoning, and enchancing all summoning would be great
- Location
- The Space Between
I would like to throw a suggestion for plan out there:
what if we take both social projects?
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what if we take both social projects?
As noted by Veekie, our social projects are somewhat anemic in comparison to the combat concepts but I think that's due to Ling Qi's development rather than a system bug. This interaction with Bai is going to be the first social strain placed on us in the new system, and I'd love for us to actually hit it well so that we're more interested in social situations than we've been in the past.
My argument for PMR is that I believe the combination of MSS' awareness alongside PMR's sincere wit should be excellent at making a good impression. There's a difference between bare competence and appearing capable, and I'd prefer to show a capacity to dabble in sociality despite our fairly advanced isolation.
I also believe PMR is a good matchup to any Bai shenanigans here, as we sincerely do hold a fairly powerful position as a favored commoner-talent retainer of the heir of Shenhua. MSS will allow us to avoid snafu or damage, but PMR should allow us to show some measure of intersocial fluency. Sincerity may have a conceptually strong matchup as well, depending on how the White Caste value Sincerity (my assumption would be they see it as either a power play or a foolishness, exposing your Sincere self to all comers and being confident that you're strong enough to take em). I'm of the opinion our social position can back up our Sincerity, and I'd like to see Ling Qi really flex the social skills she's been developing this entire thread.
My argument for PMR is that I believe the combination of MSS' awareness alongside PMR's sincere wit should be excellent at making a good impression. There's a difference between bare competence and appearing capable, and I'd prefer to show a capacity to dabble in sociality despite our fairly advanced isolation.
I also believe PMR is a good matchup to any Bai shenanigans here, as we sincerely do hold a fairly powerful position as a favored commoner-talent retainer of the heir of Shenhua. MSS will allow us to avoid snafu or damage, but PMR should allow us to show some measure of intersocial fluency. Sincerity may have a conceptually strong matchup as well, depending on how the White Caste value Sincerity (my assumption would be they see it as either a power play or a foolishness, exposing your Sincere self to all comers and being confident that you're strong enough to take em). I'm of the opinion our social position can back up our Sincerity, and I'd like to see Ling Qi really flex the social skills she's been developing this entire thread.
the SNR projects actually reveal more conceptual overlap and suitability for our style than the keywords and antitheses would suggest. This new system also reveals how the insights have been able to suit us despite the keywords of an art being a direct antithesis to the lesson we eventually learned. That makes the fact that Renxiang found no available insight from her mother's Art significantly more interesting.
Renxiang found no insight from the Art or the Art's antithesis. Literally found no meaning whatsoever in it.
I'm so glad we were there to shake Renxiang out of her funk over that, because woof. If Renxiang is already working within a philosophical-based system similar to this, the weight of having no understanding gained from going through the motions is. Yowza. That's a lot of wasted AP in a project that, by all accounts, should have been a huge boon for her. I'm extraordinarily curious what sort of Art it was. My guess would be something related to the personal that just bounced off the entirely externally focused Renxiang.
Renxiang found no insight from the Art or the Art's antithesis. Literally found no meaning whatsoever in it.
I'm so glad we were there to shake Renxiang out of her funk over that, because woof. If Renxiang is already working within a philosophical-based system similar to this, the weight of having no understanding gained from going through the motions is. Yowza. That's a lot of wasted AP in a project that, by all accounts, should have been a huge boon for her. I'm extraordinarily curious what sort of Art it was. My guess would be something related to the personal that just bounced off the entirely externally focused Renxiang.
Xiangmen finalllllllllyyyy wooopwooop
Xiangmen is the perfect example of being an isolated being integrated and emblematic of a massive community.
The amount of inspiration and understanding to be gained from what is possibly the strongest entity in the Empire . . . absolutely insane. The Xiangmen project giving Home and Motion is fascinating, and I want to explore this one as much as possible.
Otherwise I'm interested in advancing Mystery and Causality very much. Ling Qi's sudden detective work during Three Village Defense was one of my favorite sections, and these two keywords just scream at me "Mastermind Sleuth" which, when combined with Chaos and the disruption of our enemy's well laid plans is just. It's another of my favorite scenes. It's what we did to Yan Renshu. We sneak around looking for secrets, pull on some strings, and accidentally unravel his entire scheme in the chaos of us sating our curiosity and sticky fingers lmao
I would also add as an addendum that I think the Joyous Toast project might help with our Heart Demon given it's about the Power gained from Community, which might help us justify our Community investment to the Power Gaming side of ourselves
Xiangmen is the perfect example of being an isolated being integrated and emblematic of a massive community.
The amount of inspiration and understanding to be gained from what is possibly the strongest entity in the Empire . . . absolutely insane. The Xiangmen project giving Home and Motion is fascinating, and I want to explore this one as much as possible.
Otherwise I'm interested in advancing Mystery and Causality very much. Ling Qi's sudden detective work during Three Village Defense was one of my favorite sections, and these two keywords just scream at me "Mastermind Sleuth" which, when combined with Chaos and the disruption of our enemy's well laid plans is just. It's another of my favorite scenes. It's what we did to Yan Renshu. We sneak around looking for secrets, pull on some strings, and accidentally unravel his entire scheme in the chaos of us sating our curiosity and sticky fingers lmao
I would also add as an addendum that I think the Joyous Toast project might help with our Heart Demon given it's about the Power gained from Community, which might help us justify our Community investment to the Power Gaming side of ourselves
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I feel that this trait should be expanded to include the fact that we can see, hear and talk at a distance. It can even work with Ling Qi's ability to understand other languages.
Then again that would have some overlap with social traits, but Ling Qi shouldn't lose any abilities from the system change.
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Meizhen flexing her Talent/Wealth/History/Diligence combo: "Oh, I tried out a bunch of Earth arts to find a suitable Insight."
I suspect its more the Incandescent Tyrant Art(Thread 1 Tournament 7), where Renxiang already expressed strong distaste for its ultimate technique being indiscriminate mass destruction. Shenhua is all about acceptable costs and consequences, but Renxiang cares about the human costs.
An art that is fundamentally built around the irresistable march of Progress crushing all in its path is going to be the worst case scenario where she cannot accept its insights, but also has no counterargument and thus cannot develop an inverted insight like Qi has a few times(FSS goes on about how All Things End, but she has a counterargument that an ending makes for a fresh start, and she got a Future Cannot Be Known insight out of an art about divination).
Which would align with one of the few known insights of Shenhua in that she's conceptually incapable of going back on her decisions, even if the consequences are horrific.
Xiangmen: "I'm a Sudowoodo"
I think we should take an SSC project first of all. Cultivation art have massive importance in the new system, so we should really try and improve it.
The Xiangmen and Bear options from BKSD seem great, and so both of the Wind Thief option. One increases our vanishing and allows us to steal from storage rings and the like, the other improves Sable Grace and opens new avenues of improvement with our strongest art thus far. I also really want to take soul of ice
The Xiangmen and Bear options from BKSD seem great, and so both of the Wind Thief option. One increases our vanishing and allows us to steal from storage rings and the like, the other improves Sable Grace and opens new avenues of improvement with our strongest art thus far. I also really want to take soul of ice
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With all of the discussion about Armor and what we'll do with and after SNR I think this might be useful. It seems to suggest what's absorbed by SNR goes somewhere and that's a really interesting parallel if we want to make a Mist or Dream based Armor Art. I'm thinking like a mist containing a dream haze, everything that enters is lost and vanished. We leverage Ling Qi being able to turn shadowy and immaterial into also shunting part of whatever attacks her into another world, using Dream for defense twice over and build on the idea of Ling Qi escaping the cold, violent world into Dream, by reversing that idea and instead shunting all the cold and violence into the beyond. Since SNR has the Reflections Keyword maybe this is the path to a counterattack move as well, where we find out where arrows or lightning bolts go and sending them back at the opposition. Would also have some delightful parallels with Ling Qi being a thief, literally stealing whatever is used to attack her, making it lost only to emerge as her own.
This sounds like it'd be cool to do in conjuncture with FSS+. It's a quest chain diving deeper into what Cold really means and so maybe we can bring the Arts closer together by broadening our understanding. If we want to incorporate themes of Inevitability, Endings and Renewal in FSS+ this might be the opportunity to broach those ideas and their place in UGM before we actually begin creating the Art. Plus we'll probably want to progress the Winter's Heart Trait as far as possible for FSS+ and Ice Diplomacy.
Honestly I kind of want to give the Dreaming Gala some rest, we just invited Xuan Shi to one and Sixiang got their idol to tinker with so I think some breathing room for those two would be best. Phantasmal Mastery though offers an opportunity to think on what our constructs really mean for us. Our Domain calls them "Phantoms flicker in the corner of your eye and dog your steps. Claws catch at the hems of your clothes and teeth nip at your heels.", BKSD is about long dead beast marching for war against mankind, PLR itself is about the ease of being part of and dangers of being targeted by a crowd much like Ling Qi has felt with the nobility. This project and trait touches a lot of our build that we haven't really talked about before.
Little inconsistency found : the Social Trait listed on the Character Sheet is Spirit Speaker not Spirit Seeker.
And I think we should do this action for continuity's sake, this skill has been capped in the old system forever and we never really had a scene entierly focused on how LQ deals with wild spirits, most of the negociation scenes with spirits tend to focus on what objectives LQ is trying to accomplish and not on her methods.
I would love too see what cultivating the Melodies of the Spirit Seekers art did to LQ's general approach with spirits.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Since Yrs said that this vote will be for a small pre Tournament Arc as a trial run for the System I would like to match our Projects to the things we do anyway.
That would be:
-Dream Fieldtrip with Six (and Xuan ?)
-Idol concert with Hanyi
-Finish gardening with Zhengui
And i have this vague memory that we still need to do some Formation work from the last vote? Or did i miss something?
So with those actions locked i Probably
-Dreaming Gala on the Dream Fieldtrip sounds solid.
-A social Art for the concert ... Dreaming Muse Rapport VII but Hidden Smile IV is probably more useful when we meet the Bai next Turn.
-With gardening i dont realy know ... i like Xiangmen, Fortress of Tsu Pt. 1 but i don't know if that fits at all ... and i dont wanna touch WHR or UGM until after gardening is done.
Maybe just SC for the bonus?
But there are a bunch of cool options, i will probably be fine with a lot of them.
That would be:
-Dream Fieldtrip with Six (and Xuan ?)
-Idol concert with Hanyi
-Finish gardening with Zhengui
And i have this vague memory that we still need to do some Formation work from the last vote? Or did i miss something?
So with those actions locked i Probably
-Dreaming Gala on the Dream Fieldtrip sounds solid.
-A social Art for the concert ... Dreaming Muse Rapport VII but Hidden Smile IV is probably more useful when we meet the Bai next Turn.
-With gardening i dont realy know ... i like Xiangmen, Fortress of Tsu Pt. 1 but i don't know if that fits at all ... and i dont wanna touch WHR or UGM until after gardening is done.
Maybe just SC for the bonus?
But there are a bunch of cool options, i will probably be fine with a lot of them.