I suspect that the need for multi layer buffs might have another bottle neck.
Anyone who can't cultivate the required buffs is going to be at disadvantage, and even those who can might end up crippled because of their way.
It might not be a huge problems, considering that they already have lower ceiling of what could be expected of cultivators. But i could see them loosing lot of otherwise ok cultivators, or atleast making them weaker than they otherwise might become, because they simply don't fit in the limited path the barbarians have due to their fighting style.
Another benefit that lq has is her sponsorship by crx. The barbs need to scrunch up not only enough ressources for themselves but need to also invest in their mounts.
Meanwhile, most of our companions needs are met either by the sect or by CRX.
That is in addition to other gifts like the robe and our domain weapon.
I guess besides time spent cultivating, a significant amount of time has to be spent hunting for or otherwise sustaining their mount.
Another benefit that lq has is her sponsorship by crx. The barbs need to scrunch up not only enough ressources for themselves but need to also invest in their mounts.
Meanwhile, most of our companions needs are met either by the sect or by CRX.
That is in addition to other gifts like the robe and our domain weapon.
I guess besides time spent cultivating, a significant amount of time has to be spent hunting for or otherwise sustaining their mount.
Mmm, keep in mind the Imperial method of using Stones for cultivation, stones which can be provided on a fairly large scale at very high consistency. The Nomads on the other hand have to work with places of power, refined beast cores, or feeding unrefined beast cores to their spirit partner and drawing the filtered qi from them.
Without stones in play you're probably looking at a Hunt -> Cultivation Sprint -> Hunt cycle, which means that you can't just shoot for peak base cultivation consistently, your ability to either acquire cores or generate sufficient value to trade for them is paramount in maintaining progress.
If we want our first successor art to come from the art that had the most narrative impact, I think we'd want to go with Sable Crescent Step. Our movement art defines us far more than our offensive and defensive arts do. The thread has switched between several offensive arts, weapons, and even styles, but our movement art has always been there for us.
The way SCS lets us avoid attacks gets mentioned in every combat and a lot of the non-combat scenes reference it while we're moving around too.
Ling Qi's mobility has consistently been one of her biggest advantages. Some of that comes from the dress, but most of it comes from this art.
Narratively, it would also make sense to put more time into a better dodge art after seeing how freaked out everyone around us is that we deliberately let someone hit us.
We can always make SCS+ with Music and maybe the first level of ENM(not directly but something close to it.) But then again wind thief is the successor to SCS.
Mmm, keep in mind the Imperial method of using Stones for cultivation, stones which can be provided on a fairly large scale at very high consistency. The Nomads on the other hand have to work with places of power, refined beast cores, or feeding unrefined beast cores to their spirit partner and drawing the filtered qi from them.
Without stones in play you're probably looking at a Hunt -> Cultivation Sprint -> Hunt cycle, which means that you can't just shoot for peak base cultivation consistently, your ability to either acquire cores or generate sufficient value to trade for them is paramount in maintaining progress.
We don't know what the cloud tribe uses instead of stones, but.... stones are necessary for art cultivation and meridian opening too, not just base. Anything that would limit base also limit everything but Qi increasing.
Well we thought it was at the time but others have put forward the idea that it could really just have been "Shenhua wants some mother/daughter time" and just really sucked at it thanks to a multitude of factors. She's certainly capable of showing warmth and affection to others from what we were told it's just that her Domain has really bad effects on other people around her and her Way doesn't allow her to restrain herself or regret any accidents that happen.
I'll point to the fact that Renxiang's whole reason for cultivating early (4 I believe?) was simply to survive being near Shenhua even when the Duchess wasn't trying to intimidate or harm her and even then it still screwed her up badly.
"Greetings, Mother," Cai Renxiang said formally. "Your humble daughter presents herself for your inspection."
"So you have," Cai Shenhua replied lightly, the light of her gaze falling upon Renxiang's back and casting her face in shadow. "Hm, still using that same style I see. Really, you should do something different once in awhile, young lady. That austere look of yours…" the Duchess sighed, resting her cheek in one hand.
Ling Qi did her best not to twitch nervously, that really wasn't the response she had been coached to expect in this kind of situation. Thankfully her liege seemed more prepared for her Mother's actions.
"My apologies Mother," she said evenly, maintaining her picture perfect bow. "I did not feel that I had the time or skill required to make worthy changes to your designs."
"I suppose so," the monstrous woman said lightly. "We will have to have a little Mother and Daughter time tonight then. I am certain you will look stunning on the morrow," Ling Qi couldn't help but feel a pang of pity at the nigh invisible tremble in Cai Renxiang's hands which came in the wake of those words.
"But I am being rude," The Cai matriarch said brightly. "Raise your head and greet our guests."
So yeah Shenhua is apparently just really bad at not harming/traumatising people when she tries to be affectionate and friendly (similarly like how Meizhen accidentally kills small animals with terror-induced heart attacks and makes Reds burst into tears when she gets annoyed)
The aforementioned woman's shot the red haired man the sort of look Ling Qi had only seen on the faces of wealthy women encountering the filth of the street. "As crass as ever I see, Zheng Po," Bai Suzhen replied coldly. "My niece has a kind heart, that is hardly a fault in moderation."
Ling Qi had to struggle to maintain her even expression at that statement. Bai Meizhen was her best friend, but to call her kind…
So, given that nomadic cloud barbarians are not likely to have as easy a time finding a month here or a week there to do nothing but eat drugs and cultivate in a hut somewhere.
How does that affect their base cultivation speed?
Also, how does it affect training/mastering arts?
So, given that nomadic cloud barbarians are not likely to have as easy a time finding a month here or a week there to do nothing but eat drugs and cultivate in a hut somewhere.
How does that affect their base cultivation speed?
Also, how does it affect training/mastering arts?
This is about as much as we know of regarding the Cloud Tribes cultivation methods, albeit from a very prejudiced source
From a Royal Road Bonus on Cultivation:
The Cloud Tribes of the southern mountains for example, perform a barbaric rite in which young men and women have their souls fully merged with a partner beast, trading away some portion of their humanity identity to catalyze their internal energies with the strength of beasts. This self mutilation is among the more tame non-imperial methods.
Furthermore, we know that the Cloud Tribes simply abandon young children who are not capable of cultivating.
From this, we can make some assumptions that the average cloud tribe member is going to be more talented at cultivating than the average Imperial citizen, and likely is going to be more talented than the low end of Imperial soldiers. Given that Cloud Tribe members are heavily reliant on the strength of spirit beasts for their cultivation, I would also guess that the quality of the spirit beast matters a great deal more to Cloud Tribe members.
I believe we also know that Cloud Tribes only cultivate one "side" per person (physical or spiritual) and the merger they undergo with their beast-self makes up for the shortfall in some way. This means they can take the resources they'd use on cultivating the other side and spend them instead on cultivating arts or opening meridians, allowing them to leverage their limited resources more efficiently.
Ling Qi's thoughts whirled, and she began to open her mouth to respond. She felt a sharp pain then, like someone grinding their heel into the top of her foot. She shot Meizhen a sharp look, but the girl merely sipped her tea serenely, eyes down. Ling Qi held back a grimace and sipped from her cup as well.
It gave her a moment to organize her thoughts. "You were always going to diverge a little. We've spoken of that haven't we?" Ling Qi said.
"A divergent insight is different from nothing at all," Cai Renxiang replied quietly. She took a sip herself, and Ling Qi noticed her wrinkle her nose in disatisfaction. Hopefully it was just the tea.
"That is true enough," Meizhen venturered, glancing up. "However, I believe it is not so much as you think. I cultivated several of my family earth arts before I found one which truly suited me. In the longer term, it is important for the health of a clan for its members to a reasonably wide array of Ways. The Cai are young yet."
Cai Renxiang let out a considering hum, but still seemed dissatisfied. That unreasonable, illogical response… it actually made Ling Qi feel better somehow. "And… I don't think it's really so bad," Ling Qi added, drawing a sharp look. "The Duchess Cai is incomparable of course, but… I did give my oath to follow you. We had a big dramatic heart to heart and everything, if you remember," she added, smiling cheekily.
"Hmph, still too shameless, Ling Qi," Meizhen grumbled. She looked back to Cai Renxiang, her expression softening. "Cai Renxiang our situations do not compare. However, I attempted to step into the role of my Aunt and even… even my Mother, this failed. It is only in stepping out of their shadows that I have begun to grow properly again."
"I've been feeling my way along more by luck than education," Ling Qi added gingerly, feeling the ache still resonating in her core. "But I can't help but feel like she's right. One person alone can't build a clan, no matter how powerful and talented they are." Ling Qi shifted in her seat with a frown as she felt a knot of tension that she hadn't noticed fade away.
"The Grandmother Serpent and the Fisher founded the Bai clan, but it was the Eight Daughters who created it's foundation," Bai Meizhen agreed.
Cai Renxiang looked at them both, and closed her eyes. The fabric of her gown roiled in discontent, but a sharp flare of her qi put it to rest. "...It is true that my view might yet be too narrow. My apologies, it is unlike me to be so melancholy."
"I am informed that it is appropriate for young ladies to spend their tea time making complaints," Meizhen replied airily. "Think nothing of it."
Cai Renxiang shook her head, swirling the contents of her cup thoughtfully. "Then allow me to make another one. I miss Gan Guangli," she sighed, setting the cup down with a clink.
Ling Qi winced. "I'm sorry, I know I'm not as…. Devoted in action but-"
Her liege waved a hand in dismissal. "I mean no slight toward your service. You are reliable in your way, and I knew your nature when I made my offer. Though it may sometimes be impolitic, your brusqueness has its uses."
Ling Qi frowned, trying to work out if she had been complimented or not
"You miss his counsel then?" Meizhen asked curiously, peering over the rim of her teacup.
Cai Renxiang nodded slightly, the corner of her mouth quirking down in a faint frown. "Indeed. Ling Qi is not one to hold deeper discussions on matters philosophical. You yourself do not hold much interest in the subject either."
Ling Qi glanced away taking a deeper sip from her cup. She was not going to object to that, it was entirely correct. Meizhen dipped her head shallowly in acknowledgment as well.
"Well it won't be long until he's back with us, I'm sure. Have you heard about what happened in the outer Sect while the attack was happening?" Ling Qi asked.
Cai Renxiang raised an eyebrow. "I had heard there was fighting, but I have not had time to review matters more closely."
Ling Qi grinned. "Well do I have a story for you then," She had pulled the events out of Su Ling at her own tea time, and if it would lighten the mood she would be happy to share.
After all, they would all soon be hard at work.
***
In the days that followed, Ling Qi spent her time in cultivation and thought. She and Zhengui both required rest, and he needed time to stabilize his sudden breakthrough, so, while she rested, Ling Qi focused on cultivating the most resful art that she had. Argent genesis, the Sect's cultivation art was harmonious and serene in its exercises, and over the next week, while her meridians recovered from their scorching, she mastered the remaining exercises of the art. The Argent Qi that had settled in her dantian, grew more robust and flexible, and with every breath she spent cultivating, she felt a little less qi lost to inefficiency, and more flowing into her burgeoning domain.
Though it would never be her primary cultivation art, she did not regret mastering it. Through settling and congealing argent qi throughout her channels and dantian, she had increased her cultivation efficiency, strengthened and refined the bond with her spirits.
Recovered from her wounds, save for a small white scar across her collarbone, Ling Qi turned her attention to her base cultivation. Here, she spent time with Hanyi, the young ice spirit was glad to return to the high peaks and snow, where Ling Qi refined her physical cultivation still further, chasing and seeking Hanyi through the snowy shadows and high cliffs without the use of arts, a reminder of the way the had met.
Ling Qi spent less time cultivating her spirit, or rather, just cultivating her spirit. When she played music with her mother in the garden as the sun set, she cultivated. When she sat with Zhengui on his hill, and meditated together with her little brother, she cultivated. When she slipped through the shadows to find hanyi in whatever crevice she had snuck through, she cultivated.
It was only deep in the night, when the moon was high in the sky, that she perched on a high cliff and consolidated that cultivation, steadily expanding her dantian. Soon, she reached the foundation stage of bronze, qi solidifying in her bones and muscles to strengthen them further for the rigors of greater cultivation.
It struck her again, how great the gulf between realms was. Even without arts, her flesh was stronger than steel or stone, she could crumble rock by merely clenching her fist and with some effort, even warp or break mundane steel. She could bound across impassable cliffs as light as a feather, and learn at a ferocious rate. The Sect had bumped up their training plans, and even now she was learning the most common dialect of the Cloud tribes, it had been less than a week and already she could understand what her teachers said, more often than not.
Yet, in her mind's eye, she saw a mountain break, and a perfect city clashing with an endless lake of black. She was still so very small, and she had so many people to think of beside herself now. Her own words to Cai Renxiang echoed back to her, she couldn't be satisfied just strengthening herself.
And so, as one week turned to the next, Ling Qi had a quiet word with her family and friends, though Xiulan was still curiously absent, squirreled away with her sister on some training ground. With everyone reassured, Ling Qi flitted away in the depth of the night, off to the silent stones that stood in the Mountain vale, gravemarker for a people long dead and anchor for a nightmare both. However, it was also the site of an important lesson, and a place where the veil between the material and spirit were thin. The chaotic energies of the moon were strong here, soaked into the very stones.
Soon, Ling Qi found her favorite stone, and sat down to cultivate the Songseekers Ceremony.
She just hoped she could talk Sixiang around, but how...
When speaking with Sixiang, Ling Qi should focus on…
[] Their personal bond. They did not know each other as well as Ling Qi might like, but… Sixiang was her friend and her muse, they had shouted at the Bloody Moon for her, and helped her through so much. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on their personal relationship and growing friendship. More effective rhetoric, but downplays Sixiang's problems and may only be a stopgap. Higher chance of Positive Outcome]
[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
In case its unclear, yes, there will be a little dicerolling to determine outcomes here, since the situation could go either way.
+80 dice to Spiritual and Physical cultivation up to Green/Bronze 4
+30 dice to Meridian cultivation
+50 dice to Argent art cultivation
6 free dice of qi experience per turn up to S rank
User may bind up to grade 4 spirits Spirit Upkeep reduced by 5 each for up to three spirits-permanent
Grants the user 1 virtual Green Stone per week(4 per turn) 1.3 multiplier to domain XP earned in a turn(Applied to turn total)-permanent
1.3 modifier to Art creation/modification XP
Ling Qi's thoughts whirled, and she began to open her mouth to respond. She felt a sharp pain then, like someone grinding their heel into the top of her foot. She shot Meizhen a sharp look, but the girl merely sipped her tea serenely, eyes down. Ling Qi held back a grimace and sipped from her cup as well.
Hunh. Looks like we dodged more conflict inside our domain. Neat.
[] Their personal bond. They did not know each other as well as Ling Qi might like, but… Sixiang was her friend and her muse, they had shouted at the Bloody Moon for her, and helped her through so much. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on their personal relationship and growing friendship. More effective rhetoric, but downplays Sixiang's problems and may only be a stopgap. Higher chance of Positive Outcome]
I'm thinking this. Yes, it's only a stopgap, but what we need right now is a stopgap. We can then leverage whatever comes of this into a more long-term solution later.
(BTW, yrsillar, any chance of this wish being answered?)
implies to me that the poisoned-pill nature of both options is kind of deliberate; we're supposed to find this an objectionable choice.
That said, @yrsillar, if at all possible, it would be nice if after this vote ends, you shed some light on the design intent here. Groping in the dark becomes a lot more tolerable if later you can look back on things and understand why it was set up as it was; otherwise it just feels kind of arbitrary. Maybe that won't be possible for various reasons, but any exposition would be good.
In this case, the design intent was that Ling Qi herself was unsure what the results of either answer would be, both due to her own inner conflict and Renxiang's closed offed-ness. I will say that neither answer were going to give immediate penalties or bad outcomes, but they will set the tone for things later
[X] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
Okay.
I know this is probably bad.
But, we need to be honest. We need to address Six's problem. They are a person. They are not the one that need to change. We were the ones who wanted to show her the art of the world. We need to show her the art. We need to make her feel safe and else conflicted. We solve it now or never.
Adhoc vote count started by Kian on Dec 17, 2019 at 10:57 AM, finished with 145 posts and 77 votes.
[X] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
[X] Their personal bond. They did not know each other as well as Ling Qi might like, but… Sixiang was her friend and her muse, they had shouted at the Bloody Moon for her, and helped her through so much. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on their personal relationship and growing friendship. More effective rhetoric, but downplays Sixiang's problems and may only be a stopgap. Higher chance of Positive Outcome]
[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
So, here's the why: it's the one that solves the problem, one way or another. A stopgap can fall apart on us later when we were assuming it would hold up for a while more. It's probably better for Sixiang to get through this rather than emotionally blackmail them to say "you should keep hanging out with me". If it works, Sixiang's problem is (more likely to be) actually resolved instead of papered over, and if it doesn't... it will be hard without the muse, but if we were going to lose them, I'd rather find that happening now than have the hole in our 'build' later.
[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
I'd prefer a long term solution.
Sure the short term one might be mechanically superrior, us having a greater change of retaining the aid of a useful spirit.
But i dislike the idea of ignoring their problems and trying to make them stay out of personal friendship alone.
If we can't convince Six to stay with us, i would still like to find a way to keep them as part of the family, even if they don't provide any combat benefits and we would still pay a cost for her upkeep.
Not sure if that's an option though.
[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
Look, mans. High Risk, High Reward, but also Sixiang deserves more than to have her problems sidelined in any way.
[] Their personal bond. They did not know each other as well as Ling Qi might like, but… Sixiang was her friend and her muse, they had shouted at the Bloody Moon for her, and helped her through so much. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on their personal relationship and growing friendship. More effective rhetoric, but downplays Sixiang's problems and may only be a stopgap. Higher chance of Positive Outcome]
Because Sixiang has admitted that they've developed a concept of mortality and now consider having their existence ripped up and recycled into a new "Sixiang" similar to death (and unpleasant) so this gives us the best possible chance of stopping Sixiang from essentially committing suicide.
I'd prefer a long term solution.
Sure the short term one might be mechanically superrior, us having a greater change of retaining the aid of a useful spirit.
But i dislike the idea of ignoring their problems and trying to make them stay out of personal friendship alone.
If we can't convince Six to stay with us, i would still like to find a way to keep them as part of the family, even if they don't provide any combat benefits and we would still pay a cost for her upkeep.
Not sure if that's an option though.
There isn't going to be a way to keep Sixiang with us if we fail, their bond with us is the only thing preventing them from dissolving so failure means literal death from their perspective as we release them to fade away.
I am not willing to risk Sixiang suiciding because we failed the roll so I'm going for that stopgap to give us time to work on things.
There isn't going to be a way to keep Sixiang with us if we fail, their bond with us is the only thing preventing them from dissolving so failure means literal death from their perspective.
I kinda assumed so.
Just saying that if i could, i would be willing to keep paying the costs of supporting a spirit, even without the mechanical benefits, to keep Six around.
Ling Qi's thoughts whirled, and she began to open her mouth to respond. She felt a sharp pain then, like someone grinding their heel into the top of her foot. She shot Meizhen a sharp look, but the girl merely sipped her tea serenely, eyes down. Ling Qi held back a grimace and sipped from her cup as well.
Heh, I like how this show's how well Meizhen knows Ling Qi. Meizhen didn't give her a chance to say the first thing that comes to her mind like Ling Qi is prone to, but to think about it.
"I am informed that it is appropriate for young ladies to spend their tea time making complaints," Meizhen replied airily. "Think nothing of it."
Meizhen has been looking into this girl talk thing.
Cai Renxiang shook her head, swirling the contents of her cup thoughtfully. "Then allow me to make another one. I miss Gan Guangli," she sighed, setting the cup down with a clink.
