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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I could quote all the parts that one can connect with one of the 18 Precepts of Sword Law, but phone posting is a pain.

So I will just be incredibly happy that a Sword Law expy has sprung up in this and hope we see how the future shapes up for Liang He.

(p.s. someone point me kindly to where we dooted at him, I'm terrible with names.)
 
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On another note: I'm of the school that Ling Qi is not socially incompetent. When she does things like what Meizhen chewed her out for she was doing it deliberately, and with an understanding of what she could get away with. She is also clearly aware that it is a sensitive point for Renxiang.

That does not, of course, mean that she's perfect. Dealing with sensitive issues can be, well, sensitive by their nature. Moreover, Ling Qi is fully capable of deciding that a band-aid needs to be ripped off for the greater good, as she did earlier.

But, well, I think that people shouldn't get "inexperienced with socialising with randos at parties" and "doesn't have a lifetime of experience and knowledge informing her about the political currents and relations that define noble social activity" with "is bad at social".
 
Erebeal said:
On another note: I'm of the school that Ling Qi is not socially incompetent. When she does things like what Meizhen chewed her out for she was doing it deliberately, and with an understanding of what she could get away with. She is also clearly aware that it is a sensitive point for Renxiang.

That does not, of course, mean that she's perfect. Dealing with sensitive issues can be, well, sensitive by their nature. Moreover, Ling Qi is fully capable of deciding that a band-aid needs to be ripped off for the greater good, as she did earlier.

But, well, I think that people shouldn't get "inexperienced with socialising with randos at parties" and "doesn't have a lifetime of experience and knowledge informing her about the political currents and relations that define noble social activity" with "is bad at social".
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Ling Qi definitely began bad at social, but she has put significant effort in her sect time in being able to get her point across without hurting people. Her manipulation and empathy increased by leap and bounds. So, yeah.

Also, this would be a good time for a Empathy advanced skill.... but I just realised we are only capping it post-training this turn. Argh.
 
Something else that is, perhaps, worth discussing is our motivations and thinking here.

Looking at general thread sentiment, I see a number of reasons for the winning vote:
  1. The practical concern about how leaving this could hurt Renxiang's cultivation more later if it blows up further without her resolving it
  2. Meta-arguments about the direction of Ling Qi's character and position, which I will summarise as #AM4Eva
  3. Do we even want Renxiang to be NeoShenhua?
The last idea is interesting in terms of how the thread, in some ways, has a different perspective on these matters than Ling Qi does, partly because we can see things she doesn't. The thread does, on occasion, tend towards wanting to help Renxiang deal with Shenhua, or renact KLK, which isn't necessarily wildly practical. That being said, the sentiment that Shenhua is bad for Renxiang, and that if Renxiang is to be happy she will need to get some distance from her mother is something that Ling Qi is perhaps kinda aware of? Even if she is probably a lot more careful about whether or not she allows herself to dare think such lese majeste.

To what degree it would form part of her motivations in this instance is, perhaps an interesting question (though in terms of what should be voiced it is obviously very dangerous territory that probably should not be said).
 
Erebeal said:
The last idea is interesting in terms of how the thread, in some ways, has a different perspective on these matters than Ling Qi does, partly because we can see things she doesn't. The thread does, on occasion, tend towards wanting to help Renxiang deal with Shenhua, or renact KLK, which isn't necessarily wildly practical. That being said, the sentiment that Shenhua is bad for Renxiang, and that if Renxiang is to be happy she will need to get some distance from her mother is something that Ling Qi is perhaps kinda aware of? Even if she is probably a lot more careful about whether or not she allows herself to dare think such lese majeste.

To what degree it would form part of her motivations in this instance is, perhaps an interesting question (though in terms of what should be voiced it is obviously very dangerous territory that probably should not be said).
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This is interesting, because I would have said the opposite here.

My impression is the thread kind of like Shenhua and want CRX to be 'Shenhua but our friend (with headpats)'. Maybe it's my bias because of a few specific voters, but I feel there has been a very strong push by voters to make sure 'Shenhua did nothing wrong' is actually the mainstream thought.

OTOH, Ling Qi has been shown, multiple times, to think CRX is traumatised by Shenhua and that Shenhua has been a awful influence on her.
 
Arkeus said:
My impression is the thread kind of like Shenhua and want CRX to be 'Shenhua but our friend (with headpats)'. Maybe it's my bias because of a few specific voters, but I feel there has been a very strong push by voters to make sure 'Shenhua did nothing wrong' is actually the mainstream thought.
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Mmm, I would argue that whether or not Shenhua has done anything wrong is not necessarily the same as to whether or not she's bad for Renxiang.

Regardless of whether or not Shenhua did anything obviously wrong, or whether or not her traumatizing Renxiang was just an unfortunate accident that she can't fix, I would say simply that she is bad for Renxiang in her current state.

I also feel that Renxiang has a lot of issues surrounding her mother, and that what she thinks her mother wants isn't necessarily wildly accurate.

And just because I'd argue that Shenhua is, arguably, an excellent ruler with admirable policies for the cultural context she exists in doesn't mean that I don't think that perhaps a cuddlier more compassionate version might not have its own merits. I suggested, for instance, that a likely art for Renxiang to have become incompatible with was the Radiant Tyrant art or whatever, relating to Renxiang's evinced distaste at using it to force people's submission like that. I would argue that the thread, and Ling Qi, would hardly object to toning down on Shenhua's authoritarianism a bit in Renxiang.

Like, as much as anything I would put the "Shenhua is actually pretty good in many ways" arguments as more pushback against the historical tendency to treat her as a Ragyo-esque villain...

That being said, it is a complex issue.
 
Vote tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Arkeus on Dec 13, 2019 at 2:36 AM, finished with 207 posts and 87 votes.
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In regards to the topic Arkeus and Erebeal propose:

I really like Shenhua as a character, she is comptentat what she does and she'a also a good source of conflict. In a sense she's the mirror upon which CRX judges herself on, comparing herself to. She has had an objectively good effect on society, and it is viable to argue whether the good she has done outdo the bad she has done or not. I'm not gonna get into that, I'm just going to say that I like the role she has played so far.

That said, I do believe CRX can do better than just being a reflection of Shenhua, and that trying to emulate her mother wil lbe bad for her. As an inspiration, Shenhua is good for CRX. But an excessive infliuence from her will drown out the traits about CRX I find most likable/ endearing. I expect I will like Future!CRX more than I like Shenhua now, but CRX needs to grow beyond her mother's shadow first. Heh, shadow, that expression certainly seems ironic here.
 
That said, another point of view is that Shenhua obviously has an incredibly powerful, near peerless Path that allowed her to rapidly ascent to the peak of White.

Older and established ducal houses likely have the Arts and knowledge to support multiple possible Paths along with the history and experience to support diversion and still potentially raise a cultivator to the highest level. Cai quite possibly does not, if she is incompatible with her mother's Arts? Yes she has alternatives but they are almost guaranteed to be inferior and the further she diverts from her mother's Path the less support she can get and the less she can 'piggyback' on her mother's super optimised powerset and guidance.
 
Optimisticly, Shenhua could be a decent person who just should not be allowed near babies or small children, or big children, like, keep her away from kids period.
Some people just, don't make good parents, not because of some moral failing, they just don't have the temperament, and Shenhua, being a white cultivator, has all her strengths and flaws amplified like a thousand fold from a regular human. So a "bit too domineering mother" turns into "breaks her child from her sheer presence".
Hopefully next kid gets the advantage of hindsight and does not get brought to Shenhua until much, much later.
 
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Valmond said:
Some people just, don't make good parents, not because of some moral failing, they just don't have the temperament, and Shenhua, being a white cultivator, has all her strengths and flaws amplified like a thousand fold from a regular human. So a "bit too domineering mother" turns into "breaks her child from her sheer presence".
Hopefully next kid gets the advantage of hindsight and does not get brought to Shenhua until much, much later.
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Yeah, personally I'm thinking the whole "get the best midwife in the empire" thing is lessons learned by Shenhua.

edit: also, I love that a sixth realm cultivator who focuses on something is better at it than a White who spends no focus on it. Maybe that's just true when the White's way is anthetical to the squishy baby subject matter at hand, but it's still good world building. Explains why the Prisms/Whites don't just do everything that's not enemy cultivator opposed/boring/demeaning.
 
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[x] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
Voting for that sweet sweet 69.
 
Ya know, just for argument's sake, if write ins were allowed, this is what I would have voted

[Q] (paraphrase as socially appropriate) didn't you say part of the reason she wanted a daugther was to have a morally similar but slightly different viewpoint? Wouldn't that fail if you were exactly the same?
 
[x] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by naths on Dec 13, 2019 at 12:46 PM, finished with 224 posts and 89 votes.
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Valmond said:
Optimisticly, Shenhua could be a decent person who just should not be allowed near babies or small children, or big children, like, keep her away from kids period.
Some people just, don't make good parents, not because of some moral failing, they just don't have the temperament, and Shenhua, being a white cultivator, has all her strengths and flaws amplified like a thousand fold from a regular human. So a "bit too domineering mother" turns into "breaks her child from her sheer presence".
Hopefully next kid gets the advantage of hindsight and does not get brought to Shenhua until much, much later.
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I mean that was literally confirmed in-quest recently and already heavily implied when Shenhua apparently just wanted to spend some time with her daughter and play dress up and seemed to wind up traumatising Renxiang inadvertently back during the tournament.
 
1986ctcel said:
I mean that was literally confirmed in-quest recently and already heavily implied when Shenhua apparently just wanted to spend some time with her daughter and play dress up and seemed to wind up traumatising Renxiang inadvertently back during the tournament.
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Wait wait, you mean that whole thing wasn't some sinister 'checking up on the programming'?
 
Ling qi started out as a support type cultivator but shes more of a kite AOE mage now. Maybe our family oriented way can give us more of our support role again
 
Jensaarai said:
Wait wait, you mean that whole thing wasn't some sinister 'checking up on the programming'?
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Well we thought it was at the time but others have put forward the idea that it could really just have been "Shenhua wants some mother/daughter time" and just really sucked at it thanks to a multitude of factors. She's certainly capable of showing warmth and affection to others from what we were told it's just that her Domain has really bad effects on other people around her and her Way doesn't allow her to restrain herself or regret any accidents that happen.

I'll point to the fact that Renxiang's whole reason for cultivating early (4 I believe?) was simply to survive being near Shenhua even when the Duchess wasn't trying to intimidate or harm her and even then it still screwed her up badly.
 
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