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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Our Insights:
  • Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.
  • There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
  • Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
  • There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
  • Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
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  • One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.
So the answer from all that is simple. Our spirits are family, not friends. Even if we don't know them.

She is free to go, as it would be unkind to keep her if she does not wish to stay, as "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final".

As "Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured", so we must be sincere in our worries, not manipulative of our family.

For "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.", and she has her own needs and desires. Our argument is rooted in our friendship yes, but it's core is that this is the living world, and in it "There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness.

Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end", but that said change need not be for the worse.

For as we've seen: "Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end."

If she wishes to go, we wish her well, but hope that some day we'll met again, and we'll have a chance to tell her this story, if she will not carry this burden with us.

Be understanding and kind. Such has never been the domain of capricious muses. So:

[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
 
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primemountain said:
Our Insights:
  • Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.
  • There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
  • Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
  • There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
  • Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
Advanced:
  • One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.
So the answer from all that is simple. Our spirits are family, not friends. Even if we don't know them.

She is free to go, as it would be unkind to keep her if she does not wish to stay, as "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final".

As "Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured", so we must be sincere in our worries, not manipulative of our family.

For "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.", and she has her own needs and desires. Our argument is rooted in our friendship yes, but it's core is that this is the living world, and in it "There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness.

Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end", but that said change need not be for the worse.

For as we've seen: "Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end."

If she wishes to go, we wish her well, but hope that some day we'll met again, and we'll have a chance to tell her this story, if she will not carry this burden with us.

Be understanding and kind. Such has never been the domain of capricious muses. So:

[X] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
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There's a moratorium (all votes have 2 hour moratorium, thread policy), so remove your vote, but also you convinced me.
 
Valmond said:
I kinda assumed so.
Just saying that if i could, i would be willing to keep paying the costs of supporting a spirit, even without the mechanical benefits, to keep Six around.
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We can't keep our bond with Sixiang if we fail because Six doesn't have a body and Six's senses are linked to ours without any way to change that and we aren't going to be sitting at home doing nothing violent during the war nor in the coming decades and centuries of cultivation.
 
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Last update Meizhen talked about working through a Heart Demon, and this one she said
However, I attempted to step into the role of my Aunt and even… even my Mother, this failed. It is only in stepping out of their shadows that I have begun to grow properly again.
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I wonder if that was what she had to work through? Being her own person instead of mini Suzhen or her mother.
 
Thor's Twin said:
There are many like this stone but this stone is Ling Qi's. And Ling Qi probably thinks of this stone more than most of the mortals in the Sect town where her family resides.
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We should pick up the rock and bring it with us to whatever vief we end up with.
Thousands of years later it shall become a sacred relic that only the highest leadership of the Ling clan is allowed to touch.
Nobody is allowed to sit on it.
 
yrsillar said:
"Then allow me to make another one. I miss Gan Guangli," she sighed, setting the cup down with a clink.
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Is there a reason Gan Guangli can't put in a tutoring request that Renxiang takes up? That she can use to discuss philosophy with him and decompress, like how Ling Qi has been used to pass info and currency between Gan Guangli/Bai Xiao Fen and Renxiang/Meizhen?

I don't think Cai Shenhua barred the two from talking no? Maybe Ling Qi could set it up, via Xiao Fen or Su Ling? Or Meizhen with Xiao Fen?
 
And as for the vote... I'd rather go for the vote that has a chance of actually helping Sixiang, rather than guilt tripping them into being by our side. Even if one sees it purely pragmatically, guilt tripping them may cause further domain fracture. More ideologically, I'd rather try to meaningfully help a friend even if I fail and the results are tragic, rather than use them as a tool.
 
In the end, the first option comes down to emotional blackmail. Ling Qi is sincere with her feelings in the first option. However, her objective with this option is selfish and doesn't truly take the worries of her family into account. The argument that we would be better off addressing Sixiang's problems directly when we have a better foundation from which to do so might be logically solid, but it doesn't suit Ling Qi's budding Way. If we fail to achieve a positive result, Ling Qi is uniquely suited to deal with the consequences as a result of her FVM and FSS insights. @primemountain summed up the arguments really well.

[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
 
primemountain said:
is free to go, as it would be unkind to keep her if she does not wish to stay, as "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final".
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Sixiang does not have a body or a stable existence and will immediately dissolve and return to "Grandmother" if their bond with us is broken*, letting them go is literally killing Sixiang and Six has even said they consider that to be the equivalent of death for them after their experiences with us.

Friends don't let friends commit suicide out of despair. I'd rather save Six's life now and work on a solution to their problems afterwards instead of gambling everything on a perfect solution that has a lower chance of working when there are dice rolls involved.
 
Sixiang was always going to leave us and they stayed because of us. They want to experience the world and that has introduced them to many of the world's horrors. The very horrors half of Ling Qi's cultivation is about is trying to escape. The other half though, is about family. About helping those you love and loving to the fullness of your ability, because there's no use to escaping the horrors if there's nothing to escape to. I don't think we're going to get to keep Sixiang by trying to understand them, we'll convince them to stay for the same reason we stayed, Ling Qi stayed. Family. Connection. Having something to live for. That is what Sixiang came here to learn and we have to show them that life is living for these things, despite how hard it can be, and that all the conflict mortals endure is to build and preserve all the beauty that the Dreaming Moon values. Making them stay for us is not a stopgap, it's an opportunity for them to understand why their personal bond matters and why it's worth staying for.

[] Their personal bond. They did not know each other as well as Ling Qi might like, but… Sixiang was her friend and her muse, they had shouted at the Bloody Moon for her, and helped her through so much. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on their personal relationship and growing friendship. More effective rhetoric, but downplays Sixiang's problems and may only be a stopgap. Higher chance of Positive Outcome]
 
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storryeater said:
Even if one sees it purely pragmatically, guilt tripping them may cause further domain fracture.
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We've got QM confirmation on Discord that it will not; this choice is about Sixiang.

heretical naths Today at 3:24 PM
Yrsillar let me guess, there is another domain conflict waiting in those choices?

Yrsillar Today at 3:24 PM
no
Sixiangs the focus here
 
Both options appears to be honest and true to Ling Qi, as well as about things relevant to what she is experiencing right now.

It seems the first option is about alleviating the symptoms, while the second is about trying to solve the root cause. If I thought the symptoms were not significant or urgent, the second option would be better... but as is, they are important.

As such, I would say the first option is significantly better if we want to actually help Sixiang.
 
[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]

If we don't deal with the actual problem, we'll just be here rolling the dice again down the road. Worse, we'll be doing so after investing more into Sixiang and planning with the belief that we'll have her. Better to succeed or fail now than do the same later, either way.
 
The first option, in my opinion, besides being a guilt trip also focus more on Ling Qi. They consider more what Ling Qi wants. It might even work and who knows? maybe we get top rolls and the long term issues are fixed here as well.
The second option, again in my opinion, focuses more directly on Sixiang themself. This carries a bigger risk for a bad result and it would be horrible for it to go wrong, but if it succeeds, then it would be much more meaningful than with the first option
 
[X] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]

Do not fear the End, children.
 
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[] Their personal bond. They did not know each other as well as Ling Qi might like, but… Sixiang was her friend and her muse, they had shouted at the Bloody Moon for her, and helped her through so much. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on their personal relationship and growing friendship. More effective rhetoric, but downplays Sixiang's problems and may only be a stopgap. Higher chance of Positive Outcome]

A stop gap is what we need right now. A long term solution would be nice but a bad roll will basically kill Sixiang. I will not gamble Sixiang because we can't bother to take time to fix their problem. Sixiang needs time to work on things , so we will give it to them.
 
Basically, as far as I understand this is the question of why Sixiang should deal with the world's ugly side. Answer 1: because they are friends with Ling Qi, and Ling Qi has to deal with it and they'll have a lot of fun as friends regardless of any troubles. Answer 2: because Sixiang is a muse of beauty, and no beauty can exist without ugliness; overcoming challenges will grant them a better understanding of their art.

I prefer the first answer. Sixiang joined us because they thought we were worth it all the way back; not because of wishing to be better at their job.
 
lioli said:
Is there a reason Gan Guangli can't put in a tutoring request that Renxiang takes up? That she can use to discuss philosophy with him and decompress, like how Ling Qi has been used to pass info and currency between Gan Guangli/Bai Xiao Fen and Renxiang/Meizhen?
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Tutoring requests cost sect points, so effort spent to secure opportunities to talk with CRX is effort not spent towards ensuring GG can make it into the Inner Sect and remain acceptable to Shenhua as a retainer for Renxiang. It's possible that CRX could tech GG something useful while also talking philosophy, but it's not very likely.
 
While the first option could be considered emotional blackmail, it could also be argued that Ling Qi is being more honest with her feelings, at least as I imagine them, with this option. I believe Ling Qi really values Sixiang as a friend, and she really only talks about her feelings towards them in the first option. On the other hand, she ignores the root problems Sixiang is facing in the first option, despite being at least somewhat aware of them. In the second option, she prioritizes what's best for Sixiang in the long run over her own feelings. This isn't to say that she's ignoring what's best for Sixiang with the first option though - she might believe that doing her best to patch up the situation temporarily might lead to the best outcome overall.

Both options have aspects that work for and against sincerity. Even if we're choosing what's best for Sixiang from Ling Qi's perspective, both options have merits to them. From an OOC point of view, I'm convinced that patching the situation temporarily is more valuable. There's a chance the situation will blow up in our faces, but it makes sense that having more time to gain experience and build up a better social art foundation would allow us to better convince Sixiang in the long run.

That said, I'm still not sure whether I'll change my vote to the first option. I still think it amounts to emotional blackmail to at least some extent, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.
 
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yrsillar said:
Ling Qi spent less time cultivating her spirit, or rather, just cultivating her spirit. When she played music with her mother in the garden as the sun set, she cultivated. When she sat with Zhengui on his hill, and meditated together with her little brother, she cultivated. When she slipped through the shadows to find hanyi in whatever crevice she had snuck through, she cultivated.
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... i couldn't resist.

Training -> cultivation. For obvious reasons.
 
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[X] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]

we did it with CRX and guarantee succeeded because of Meizhen's (sharp) training wheels. Time for a dice roll and hope Grandma Dreamer blesses us with lucky dice. Give unto faith and reap thy reward *prostrates below the Random Number God*

edit: am I on the right side of the moratorium? Can't tell
 
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I don't think that the first option is the answer here, Sixiang is important to us, yes, but this isn't about us, isn't about what we want. The first option gives us a better chance of retain Sixiang, but somehow I know I will don't feel good with myself in the end. All is, ultimately, Sixiang's choice, and I prefer to actually help her view beauty in a world full of ugliness. I don't know.
We ourselves admit this in our own domain:
yrsillar said:
Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
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In the end, Sixiang is a spirit, a muse, and even if they now understand death, it's not the same that it is for humans. It's the same situation we had with Zeqing, we are being possessive, it's not our wants or the practicality, it's Sixiang, our muse. We don't have to keep them tied with us, we have to give them reasons to stay in this world, not with us.

I think the second option is the best choice.
[] Sixiang's troubles directly. Ling Qi was no great philosopher, but she knew that ugliness did not preclude beauty. It was true that things were hard, and Sixiang was not violent by nature but… there was still worth in the waking world. [Ling Qi's arguments focus on Sixiang's problems with recent events and how to reconcile them with their nature. More likely to lead to a long term solution. Lower chance of Positive outcome.]
 
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