Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Canada
[X] She would be quiet and let him lead the conversation, but speak up if it looked like the morose blade's temper was riled.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Doubtless. But the anti-divination stuff probably didn't help.
The Horned Lords of the South
My High Lady, you have no doubt been bombarded by theories, requests and entreaties to intervene in the south. In this, my most respected sibling, I must counsel you to ignore such hotheaded calls. The war against the usurper emperor drags on and there is no call to divert forces to the savages in the south, who had hardly involved themselves even before this matter became clear. The lands of Tsu are not worth your attention. There is some concern that this disappearance is a plot of some kind by the Weilu to achieve dominance while all the rest of the Empire lays embroiled in war. Speaking as the former ambassador to the courts of Xiangmen, I can say with confidence that this is absurd in three points.
Firstly, there is the matter of the Weilu character. More than any other people of the Empire, the Weilu and their descendants are a soft and indolent race. Ask a so called noble of their kind to wield a spear, and they would but whine that they preferred the brush. Whatever martial valour inherited from their ancestors they may have once claimed, it was far gone even two centuries ago during my term. As Ambassador to their lands, I was naturally compelled to join their rituals at times. Even more mundane rituals and festivities often involved the use of substances which opened the mind to Liminal spirits and acts of decadent gluttony which I shall not recount here. Hedonism ruled their courts, and it shames me to say that even some among my entourage were seduced by this decadent style. No, these are not people who would seek to rule the Empire, they could hardly be bothered to rule even their own land. This arrives at my second point.
The structure of the Emerald Seas governance is madness, and this cannot be wholly blamed upon later day rulership. They eschew sensible and durable hierarchy, and allow their subordinates to rise and fall without rhyme or reason, squabbling freely and without discipline. While I gather that this loose system was once something more akin to our own, wherein the true blood descendants of Tsu competed for various titles and lands in order to prevent any one family from becoming complacent, it is clear that their inferior methods have become corrupted. I have observed quite frequently, otherwise potent scions of the bloodline having to be coerced into taking up positions of responsibility! The highest aspiration among them seems to have been to simply rise higher in the competing mystery cults at the core of their practices.
More often than not, in my time among them I saw that the actual administration of their province had fallen to the generals of the Xi clan and the administrators of the Meng and the Hui, who all had the gall to act without even consulting their betters in many situations! When I first arrived in their lands, those lowborns had the sheer temerity to imply that they would handle my accommodations themselves! Why I would not be surprised if whole swathes of the Emerald Seas had not gone a generation without the guiding hand of a true ruler of good bloodline. Their hierarchies are fluid and change from generation to generation,leaving their longsuffering commonfolk without stability. Is it any wonder that word of the squabbling in the forests reached even the palaces of the Thousand Lakes?
The cults of the Weilu are the third point. While propitiation and respect of the great spirits is a natural thing, and rulers naturally need to intercede upon our lesser's behalf as the priestess' of the greater rituals, the Weilu had even then begun to take such matters too far. The role of the spiritual in our lives must be attended too, lest we become akin to the usurpers madmen, that role is best served as subordinate to temporal matters for we, who must rule. The Weilu show the other extreme, wherein one becomes dangerously detached from the material world. In some places in the Emerald Seas, cults have even come to wield more power than the nobility, even outside the Dream Cults of Xiangmen and the other Weilu holdings. Rather than simply mediating between human and spirit, they have developed doctrine and dogma which in some places even is treated as superior to imperial law. I trust that you understand the danger of this. Among the Weilu themselves, membership of the Dream Cults was nigh universal, and not in a merely perfunctory manner.
I have witnessed scions of the Weilu conflict over the proper manner of interacting with some particular part of the Hearth with the same vigor that Bai scions might compete over whose war tactics are superior in the field. As an outsider, even one of such high status I did not have access to the mysteries of these cults. I was only able to see their public expressions. However, what I was able to hear disturbed me. Words were spoken of a flawed world and the constructed nature of natural hierarchy. Of the falsity of the divide between individuals, and the impermanence of the material world. The greatest of the cults among them spoke of achieving some transcendent state, beyond even Great Spirits, who they had begun to regard as impure for their involvement in the World. It very much seemed to me that the Weilu, toward the end of my time may have been on the verge of rejecting their own responsibility as rulers totally and completely.
What precisely they have done to themselves, I cannot say, and do not like to consider. However, there is no risk that what they have done has been done with ambition toward the physical world. To send troops to that land of squabbling savages would do not naught but weaken other fronts. If the Usurper should do so, let him waste his time there and press in other locations. The Emerald Seas will remain when the war is done, and the lesser clans there may be pacified at will and reorganized into a proper hierarchy when we, and our emperor have the time to give them proper attention. The mess that the Horned Lords have left in their wake shall certainly require that much.
-An entreaty addressed to Duchess Bai Meifeng in the midst of Strife.
Firstly, there is the matter of the Weilu character. More than any other people of the Empire, the Weilu and their descendants are a soft and indolent race. Ask a so called noble of their kind to wield a spear, and they would but whine that they preferred the brush. Whatever martial valour inherited from their ancestors they may have once claimed, it was far gone even two centuries ago during my term. As Ambassador to their lands, I was naturally compelled to join their rituals at times. Even more mundane rituals and festivities often involved the use of substances which opened the mind to Liminal spirits and acts of decadent gluttony which I shall not recount here. Hedonism ruled their courts, and it shames me to say that even some among my entourage were seduced by this decadent style. No, these are not people who would seek to rule the Empire, they could hardly be bothered to rule even their own land. This arrives at my second point.
The structure of the Emerald Seas governance is madness, and this cannot be wholly blamed upon later day rulership. They eschew sensible and durable hierarchy, and allow their subordinates to rise and fall without rhyme or reason, squabbling freely and without discipline. While I gather that this loose system was once something more akin to our own, wherein the true blood descendants of Tsu competed for various titles and lands in order to prevent any one family from becoming complacent, it is clear that their inferior methods have become corrupted. I have observed quite frequently, otherwise potent scions of the bloodline having to be coerced into taking up positions of responsibility! The highest aspiration among them seems to have been to simply rise higher in the competing mystery cults at the core of their practices.
More often than not, in my time among them I saw that the actual administration of their province had fallen to the generals of the Xi clan and the administrators of the Meng and the Hui, who all had the gall to act without even consulting their betters in many situations! When I first arrived in their lands, those lowborns had the sheer temerity to imply that they would handle my accommodations themselves! Why I would not be surprised if whole swathes of the Emerald Seas had not gone a generation without the guiding hand of a true ruler of good bloodline. Their hierarchies are fluid and change from generation to generation,leaving their longsuffering commonfolk without stability. Is it any wonder that word of the squabbling in the forests reached even the palaces of the Thousand Lakes?
The cults of the Weilu are the third point. While propitiation and respect of the great spirits is a natural thing, and rulers naturally need to intercede upon our lesser's behalf as the priestess' of the greater rituals, the Weilu had even then begun to take such matters too far. The role of the spiritual in our lives must be attended too, lest we become akin to the usurpers madmen, that role is best served as subordinate to temporal matters for we, who must rule. The Weilu show the other extreme, wherein one becomes dangerously detached from the material world. In some places in the Emerald Seas, cults have even come to wield more power than the nobility, even outside the Dream Cults of Xiangmen and the other Weilu holdings. Rather than simply mediating between human and spirit, they have developed doctrine and dogma which in some places even is treated as superior to imperial law. I trust that you understand the danger of this. Among the Weilu themselves, membership of the Dream Cults was nigh universal, and not in a merely perfunctory manner.
I have witnessed scions of the Weilu conflict over the proper manner of interacting with some particular part of the Hearth with the same vigor that Bai scions might compete over whose war tactics are superior in the field. As an outsider, even one of such high status I did not have access to the mysteries of these cults. I was only able to see their public expressions. However, what I was able to hear disturbed me. Words were spoken of a flawed world and the constructed nature of natural hierarchy. Of the falsity of the divide between individuals, and the impermanence of the material world. The greatest of the cults among them spoke of achieving some transcendent state, beyond even Great Spirits, who they had begun to regard as impure for their involvement in the World. It very much seemed to me that the Weilu, toward the end of my time may have been on the verge of rejecting their own responsibility as rulers totally and completely.
What precisely they have done to themselves, I cannot say, and do not like to consider. However, there is no risk that what they have done has been done with ambition toward the physical world. To send troops to that land of squabbling savages would do not naught but weaken other fronts. If the Usurper should do so, let him waste his time there and press in other locations. The Emerald Seas will remain when the war is done, and the lesser clans there may be pacified at will and reorganized into a proper hierarchy when we, and our emperor have the time to give them proper attention. The mess that the Horned Lords have left in their wake shall certainly require that much.
-An entreaty addressed to Duchess Bai Meifeng in the midst of Strife.
So this is where the Hui got their myopic focus on ideals and dreams, then? A Weilu tradition that survived after they and the Xi all died.
I suppose the Xi also preserved many of these traditions, as part of their efforts to maintain legitimacy in the face of their weakness compared to the other clans, which the Hui subsequently inherited. Makes sense why the Hui would have so many Weilu artifacts, when the aftermath apparently destroyed much else in the internecine strife; they, and the Xi, held their descent from the Weilu as proof of their right to rule the Emerald Seas.
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Very very telling. For many of Bai all that non-Bai (or somebody who they can pretend is of similar standing) are not even people. Just some strange lesser beings to be ordered.
Returning to old discussion Bai probably didn't even understood why their vassals were angry for being used as simple ablative meatshield. It's their duty to die for Bai, isn't it?
Returning to old discussion Bai probably didn't even understood why their vassals were angry for being used as simple ablative meatshield. It's their duty to die for Bai, isn't it?
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- Location
- Required Location
So, the Weilu won their Transcendence victory and moved on. Not my preferred endgame but a worthy one. The Jing also did their thing and went of exploring.
I wonder what in a few thousand years the Cais' endgame will be?
Immortality by fusion of human and carefully cultivated, specialized object spirits? Become the infrastructure/tools you wanted to have? Capitalism HO!
I wonder what in a few thousand years the Cais' endgame will be?
Immortality by fusion of human and carefully cultivated, specialized object spirits? Become the infrastructure/tools you wanted to have? Capitalism HO!
- Location
- UK
Looking at this side story, it seems like the Weilu philosophy was tending towards a 'reject earthly concerns' direction at the end due to their spiritual beliefs.
Based on this and what we've seen of the Hui, my suspicion on how the Hui came about is that they came around to mimic their impression of the Weilu, believing rejecting earthly concerns to be itself of high value, but as the Weilu seem to have been somewhat secretive in their beliefs, the Hui didn't have any reason reject earthly concerns other than for the very sake of doing so. That is they worshipped the idea itself, rather than having a purpose for it, contrasting with the Weilu for whom this was only a side effect of their true beliefs.
So rather than govern they attempted to do a Weilu impression of being detached lords, but they didn't actually have the capability to do it as the Weilu did (whether that's due to lacking the sheer power, secrets, respect or deals with spirits the Weilu did), so instead had to resort to tricking and setting their vassals against each other in order to weaken them enough that they could remain on top whilst again rejecting earthly concerns for the sake of it, or at least that's what they ended up doing towards the end. When this idea of basically ignoring everything got into their Way too (rather than the Weilu who seemed to have more spiritual Ways with the rejection merely being a side effect), then we can see why they were so useless in the barbarian invasion. Their Way necessitated not interfering.
I also find it quite appropriate that the seeming masked puppeteers were masquerading as others from the very start, attempting to wear a 'mask' of the Weilu, an act that only went skin deep.
Based on this and what we've seen of the Hui, my suspicion on how the Hui came about is that they came around to mimic their impression of the Weilu, believing rejecting earthly concerns to be itself of high value, but as the Weilu seem to have been somewhat secretive in their beliefs, the Hui didn't have any reason reject earthly concerns other than for the very sake of doing so. That is they worshipped the idea itself, rather than having a purpose for it, contrasting with the Weilu for whom this was only a side effect of their true beliefs.
So rather than govern they attempted to do a Weilu impression of being detached lords, but they didn't actually have the capability to do it as the Weilu did (whether that's due to lacking the sheer power, secrets, respect or deals with spirits the Weilu did), so instead had to resort to tricking and setting their vassals against each other in order to weaken them enough that they could remain on top whilst again rejecting earthly concerns for the sake of it, or at least that's what they ended up doing towards the end. When this idea of basically ignoring everything got into their Way too (rather than the Weilu who seemed to have more spiritual Ways with the rejection merely being a side effect), then we can see why they were so useless in the barbarian invasion. Their Way necessitated not interfering.
I also find it quite appropriate that the seeming masked puppeteers were masquerading as others from the very start, attempting to wear a 'mask' of the Weilu, an act that only went skin deep.
- Location
- Greece
I really love how 2/3rds of the grievances adressed here are so utterly... well, coming from a place of a genuinely regressive, ineffectual and oppressive worldview, (if sometimes more well-meaning than in historical reality due to the way the dao works forcing people to take their moral justifications seriously, so that "protecting mortals" is not mere pretense for oppression and hypocrisy) and yet the rest 1/3rd of them are actually stuff that are genuine problems and good points. It really makes this feel more alive.
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Ponytail Megane Su Ling does things for me.
[X] That she would let Xuan Shi converse with the sword spirit alone, simply listening.
So the Weilu achieved Nirvana, or tried to?
[X] That she would let Xuan Shi converse with the sword spirit alone, simply listening.
I'd speculate they are one example about what Xin was talking about how the belief one can have full certainty in their divination has led many diviners to ruin. Because the belief that the divide between humans is in fact false when we know it is true can lead to you making divination based upon those assumptions, and that obviously ended poorly for the Weilu.
- Location
- The Space Between
Great Spirits are impure for involving themselves in the World . . . LMAO
Maybe they didn't just Transcendence victory. Maybe the mechanism was through Soul Qi and the "falsity of the divide between individuals". Our perhaps "Pure Qi" in which they just, unraveled themselves back to Qi.
sounds like whatever they Transcended with, it's probably secrets that are part of the "proscribed reading materials" for the modern Empire. And it almost certainly didn't actually go well for them.
Assuming that the divide between individuals is not, in fact, false they uh. Probably got devoured/used by an Ego they thought was actually just part of themselves. Do you think Xiangmen would eat them if they tried to become Pure Qi inside of Xiangmen? Because I think it probably would slurp them up.
also, the Weilu are even more confirmed Bad Ended than before. I'm almost positive they're not gonna return in any meaningful way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AHHHH SU LING AND XUAN SHI AND SUYIN ARE BEST AHHHH
Su Ling having a project that enforces the boundaries between Time and Space in order to reject arts that muck about with Time and Space is so goddam excellent. Her Way is about Rejecting Magical Bullshit and enforcing Your Own Will on things.
Shenhua would love that lmao
Su Ling really is best smh. Xuan Shi being excited and energized is best smh. Poised and confident Suyin scuttling around her "cute" and "comfy" spider layer is best.
I still think adopting Su Ling would be great. But maybe she won't even want chosen family right now. Even if we're a perfect meddling sister chaos fairy figure
anyway. This interlude made me feel like nobody here is going to get Fan Who'd into irrelevance even if they don't show up for awhile. Suyin will almost certainly go deep in the Sect if she wishes to, and Xuan Shi almost sounds like he'll end up being a land or liminal based explorer since he has no XuanWu. A Nightmare enemy-to-companion would certainly help navigating the liminal much easier. Maybe "grasping the liminal" is part of the function of the gloves?
[X] That she would let Xuan Shi converse with the sword spirit alone, simply listening.
I'm so excited and happy with all this stuff? Ponytail + jeweler's monocle Su Ling is a power stance? total informal Su Ling familiarly griping with Xuan Shi's absolutely formal poetic verse? holy shit it's all so good
Su Ling <3 my favorite
Maybe they didn't just Transcendence victory. Maybe the mechanism was through Soul Qi and the "falsity of the divide between individuals". Our perhaps "Pure Qi" in which they just, unraveled themselves back to Qi.
sounds like whatever they Transcended with, it's probably secrets that are part of the "proscribed reading materials" for the modern Empire. And it almost certainly didn't actually go well for them.
Assuming that the divide between individuals is not, in fact, false they uh. Probably got devoured/used by an Ego they thought was actually just part of themselves. Do you think Xiangmen would eat them if they tried to become Pure Qi inside of Xiangmen? Because I think it probably would slurp them up.
also, the Weilu are even more confirmed Bad Ended than before. I'm almost positive they're not gonna return in any meaningful way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AHHHH SU LING AND XUAN SHI AND SUYIN ARE BEST AHHHH
Su Ling having a project that enforces the boundaries between Time and Space in order to reject arts that muck about with Time and Space is so goddam excellent. Her Way is about Rejecting Magical Bullshit and enforcing Your Own Will on things.
Shenhua would love that lmao
Su Ling really is best smh. Xuan Shi being excited and energized is best smh. Poised and confident Suyin scuttling around her "cute" and "comfy" spider layer is best.
I still think adopting Su Ling would be great. But maybe she won't even want chosen family right now. Even if we're a perfect meddling sister chaos fairy figure
anyway. This interlude made me feel like nobody here is going to get Fan Who'd into irrelevance even if they don't show up for awhile. Suyin will almost certainly go deep in the Sect if she wishes to, and Xuan Shi almost sounds like he'll end up being a land or liminal based explorer since he has no XuanWu. A Nightmare enemy-to-companion would certainly help navigating the liminal much easier. Maybe "grasping the liminal" is part of the function of the gloves?
[X] That she would let Xuan Shi converse with the sword spirit alone, simply listening.
I'm so excited and happy with all this stuff? Ponytail + jeweler's monocle Su Ling is a power stance? total informal Su Ling familiarly griping with Xuan Shi's absolutely formal poetic verse? holy shit it's all so good
Su Ling <3 my favorite
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Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
So, the Weilu might've went full Dwemer, and wiped themselves from existence.
Tang is a reference to Evangelion's ending.
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
My guess is something similar to the Dwemer situation, but I think it bears remembering that the Dwemer's attmept created the Numidium which is powerful enough to shatter causality so hard that the Numidium is technically still destroying the Summer Isles despite having been destroyed centuries ago.
The Weilu almost certainly accomplished something with their disappearance, and certainly something massive. But equally so it is likely something incredibly narrow in overall scope that is has yet to be encountered due to no one else following as directly in their footsteps as to encounter whatever trail they left behind.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
Luckily, that one skeleton who died so hard it's made a small lake of death liquid appears to be waking up. So that's. Fun?
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- Location
- Finland
They might have tried somekind of collective ascension to nirvana. that ended poorly (or worked perfectly, might be impossible to tell from the outside).
Or they could have decided to just, go.
Just pick up your brush, grab a musical instrument or two, and all the ink and paper you can carry and get out of the material world to some dream realm where they can just be creative.
More likely the first one, through i find the second one more amusing.
Moon probably knows, and almost certainly won't tell.
Or they could have decided to just, go.
Just pick up your brush, grab a musical instrument or two, and all the ink and paper you can carry and get out of the material world to some dream realm where they can just be creative.
More likely the first one, through i find the second one more amusing.
Moon probably knows, and almost certainly won't tell.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
This actually reminds me a lot of Zoroastrianism, in which time is a twink and one of the most important forces against Ahriman. @yrsillar was that one of your inspirations for this bit, or is it just a coincidence.
How do we know that the division between humans is true? As I see it, LQ's domain is strong evidence that it isn't. How else would it make sense for someone else to get an internal domain from LQ's cultivation?
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Firstly, Ling Qi's domain is not evidence of any kind that the division between people is some momentary illusion, because secondly, we see a ton of instances where foreign qi can be inserted into one's meridians, as well as one instance where externalized qi from other cultivators can be manipulated by others (that's how the Gu formation art in the Journey to the East sidestory is described to us). Thirdly, domain in this context means, "territory over which dominion (read as supreme authority or sovereignty) is exercised," or "a sphere of knowledge, influence, or activity," which can either be one's own body and spirit (an internal domain) or some functional volume of space and/or the things within it (an external domain). Ling Qi's domain doesn't give others an internal domain, that would require Ling Qi have some level of authority over the bodies and spirits of her friends and allies, and she doesn't. Instead, Ling Qi's domain establishes dominion over the volume of space that her Mist occupies, and the Mist itself moves and shifts to manifest the effects listed in the character sheet. In fact, there is no effect on that list that cannot be explained as an external effect on the world around people.
More importantly, if the division between humans in setting doesn't exist, then literally everything that has or will happen in the story doesn't matter because it's a stage play being put on by the nameless father and mother in the setting creation myth that was told to Ling Qi back when she was taking lessons from the Elder that gave her Thousand Rings Fortress.