Anyone else kind of want to join a Dream Cult? We know Shenhua purged the capital of Dreaming Moon influence and isn't the most friendly towards them, but that just means there's a lot of potential. These mysterious religious groups are most likely very popular still among the Meng and other Weilu Conservatives. Secret Dream Cults seems like the perfect way for Ling Qi to be weird and mysterious, even in court with people who have practiced weirdness and mystery for millennia.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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LucidProp
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Joining a cult that's on the local White-tier Cultivator's "Exterminate" radar seems like a elaborate way to commit suicide so not really.
We've already joined the Argent Sect's Moon cult? Xin was the one that initiated us.
All that Moon stuff we were given? That was part of being inducted.
We've since participated in a cult gathering (the Dream party we went to), an ecstatic quest (where we got SSC), and several mystery plays (all those Moon trials, and finally when we started training LFotWT).
Edit: It looks like "mystery play" is the wrong word as it is associated with medieval Christianity. I'm not sure what the sacred reenactments of cult stories like the Homeric Hymn to Demeter would have been called.
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Cults in Forgeverse aren't like cults in reality, at least for the nobility. We're not worshipping and submitting to the Dreaming Moon in a cult, we've getting together with other Dreamers to share ideas that draw us closer to what the Moon aspects represent. And a Dream Cult isn't necessarily about the Dreaming Moon but rather the concept of Dreams, more like the Music Club only more serious.Can't we just make our own cult?
I bet Grinning Moon would be all over it.
Not sure i'd like to join a cult, we're kinda on the first name basis with the Dreaming Moon, so making our relationship all weird by joining a cult feels off.
We're not that special. We've meet to local avatar twice and are bound to one of her muses, that's not something everyone in those cults might boast about but it's hardly a unique relationship we've formed. How many moon revels have they participated in, how many of them went on quests of self discovery with a spirit at their side. There are probably people in those cults who have a far closer relationship to the moon than we do to Xin and Sixiang. We have a lot of attention but that's like saying we don't need to interact with the nobility because we're working for the Cai, we still have a lot to gain by participating in the community of our peers.
- Location
- Finland
I would not call that joining a cult.
We follow 3/8ths of the moon, and consider them a patron, but we are not a member of a cult.
edit-
Well, more like we got adopted by Winter (Zeqing), and then adopted Winter (Hanyi) in turn.
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Certainly not in the modern sense of the word (ala Scientology), but cults of some stripe have been around for a very long time, and historical cults were vastly different (which is as much as I can say with conviction). Given the use of cult previously in the quest (The Cult of The Threefold Winter), Yrsillar seems to be using it in the same manner "sect" is used in modern parlance when talking about religions (religious sect, sectarian violence, etc.) out of a desire for clean language as "sect" means something else in the broader setting.
- Location
- Finland
I am aware of how the term cult is being used.
We still have not joined one.
We like the moon, and the moon likes us, we give her offerings, might give a prayer at times, and she offers us occasional shinies, we are not member of any cults dedicated to her.
As I see it, LQ was a worshiper of the Grinning Moon in Tonghou and was subsequently initiated into the broader lunar mysteries shortly after her arrival in the sect by Xin. EPC would be one of the more obvious mysteries: we found out that we literally could not share it.
Definition-wise a "mystery" is "something that is not to be spoken of" and a "cult" is "a group dedicated to venerating some particular thing." The broader similarity between much of Xianxia's sects and mystery cults is no secret: Virtuous Sons neatly slots Greek mystery cults into the place of sects without changing much. And yes, this means that religion suffuses the world of cultivators.
I would say that LQ is a member of two cults but that will change shortly. She is a member of the local lunar mystery cult and the Argent Sect hero cult. She will shortly be leaving the Argent Sect and likely be joining the Winter/Moon cults of the White Sky Confederation. She has already been accepted into Sudica's cult as an emissary but its difficult to really be part of something with such geographic distance and so many unrelated constraints on her time. If she wants to continue to be part of a lunar cult after leaving the Sect, she may need to either create one herself (potentially with help from Meng Dan) and/or reach out to her neighbors, if any are interested. The latter would be unlikely to be productive due to the younger Clans' tendency towards being Imperial rather than Weilu.
Xin is probably the hierophant of the local lunar cult, which consists of mostly spirits. We don't know much of what the spirits' worship involves but we know that there is an element of acting as a vessel for their "greater selves" to it and perhaps some element of seeking out new experiences, supporting humans, and inducting the occasional chosen human. They might be the ones maintaining the Moon trials? Jiao and Liao Zhu are members of the cult as well but Jiao is too emotionally compromised to actually take care of cult business in addition to his position as an Elder and Liao Zhu is not that much more senior than us and so remains on the periphery.
Yuan He is the hierophant of the hero cult. Him and the other slayers of Ogodei are also the objects of its veneration. While powerful, the cult lacks dedicated members and will probably be experiencing a crisis of identity when all of Ogodei's slayers are finally dead. If this war doesn't revitalize it then it will likely secularize within LQ's lifetime.
Definition-wise a "mystery" is "something that is not to be spoken of" and a "cult" is "a group dedicated to venerating some particular thing." The broader similarity between much of Xianxia's sects and mystery cults is no secret: Virtuous Sons neatly slots Greek mystery cults into the place of sects without changing much. And yes, this means that religion suffuses the world of cultivators.
I would say that LQ is a member of two cults but that will change shortly. She is a member of the local lunar mystery cult and the Argent Sect hero cult. She will shortly be leaving the Argent Sect and likely be joining the Winter/Moon cults of the White Sky Confederation. She has already been accepted into Sudica's cult as an emissary but its difficult to really be part of something with such geographic distance and so many unrelated constraints on her time. If she wants to continue to be part of a lunar cult after leaving the Sect, she may need to either create one herself (potentially with help from Meng Dan) and/or reach out to her neighbors, if any are interested. The latter would be unlikely to be productive due to the younger Clans' tendency towards being Imperial rather than Weilu.
Xin is probably the hierophant of the local lunar cult, which consists of mostly spirits. We don't know much of what the spirits' worship involves but we know that there is an element of acting as a vessel for their "greater selves" to it and perhaps some element of seeking out new experiences, supporting humans, and inducting the occasional chosen human. They might be the ones maintaining the Moon trials? Jiao and Liao Zhu are members of the cult as well but Jiao is too emotionally compromised to actually take care of cult business in addition to his position as an Elder and Liao Zhu is not that much more senior than us and so remains on the periphery.
Yuan He is the hierophant of the hero cult. Him and the other slayers of Ogodei are also the objects of its veneration. While powerful, the cult lacks dedicated members and will probably be experiencing a crisis of identity when all of Ogodei's slayers are finally dead. If this war doesn't revitalize it then it will likely secularize within LQ's lifetime.
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The fact that Ling QI's domain triggers off a specific bond level indicates such a division exists, and we have literal IC knowledge from two Great Spirits alongside Xin that indicate this being the case?
It makes perfect sense as doing so requires a mutual bond between the two humans, and to use the Dreaming Moon's terminology is two humans forming a string between the two of them, which wouldn't make sense if they had an already existing connection that they simply lacked the perspective to see.
The biggest evidence is granting "Immunity to Compulsion or Illusion effects which would cause action against allies of Bond 3 or higher (Bypassed by effects of rank A or higher, adjusted for potency)" to our close friends and family
Let's posit three people: Alice, Bob, and Carol. Alice is a cultivator and a friend to the mortal Bob, who is in turn a close friend to the mortal Carol. Carol and Alice do not know each other at all.
As a cultivator, it makes sense that Alice's cultivation could affect their connection with Bob. However why would Alice's cultivation affect Bob's connection with Carol? That last relationship is just some random connection between two mortals, with Alice not even being involved or even aware that it exists.
Also, since you brought it up "each of you shapes the world with your actions and thoughts, echoing and refracting from the ripples of others' actions" is basically the archetypal form of the claim that the difference between people is illusory. I also think you are mistaken regarding the Dreaming Moon's statement, the strings are being mentioned alongside chains and cages while talking about people being made "wretched and pitiable" because they are "truly alone." It makes far more sense to interpret that as saying that connection is the default state and humanity then divides itself in an act of violence analogous to being chained or caged (albeit with the possibility of it taking the form of a fairly mild "string" instead). This is especially true given that it's coming from the heavily drug and art associated Dreaming Moon.
That's not what that wording actually means at all.
But besides that obvious fact, Humanity being connected in the way you describe would also contradict all other lore that exists about the creation of humanity. Being connected to a greater whole is a spirit thing, which humans are explicitly not because of how the Nameless wanted them to not be completely predictable to them.
That's what the references to dolls on strings are about, since pre-humans as dolls with no true free will was a thing in that story.
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That's from the Bond 4 text. Yes, its exactly what it means.
And no, it doesn't contradict the lore in the setting. It contradicts the myth that one of the elders told us but we know that the Weilu were far more knowledgeable about this stuff than her and we have seen humans acting as part of a greater whole with our own eyes with the paving crews. Between everything we've seen in the story its far more reasonable to simply say that she was wrong. The Hidden Moon even outright says that humanity created all the Great Spirits: "each of you shapes the world with your actions and thoughts, echoing and refracting from the ripples of others' actions. Great Spirits are merely the greatest of these ripples."
That's not what it means. It applies to the people we have bond 3 with, not the people they have bond 3 with, obviously. You're misreading the text in a way best comparable to ridiculous RAW munchkining.
And the Weilu annihilated themselves with a stupid stunt after a prolonged period of complete decadence and turning away from the world. They certainly didn't achive anything big enough to justify what they did to themselves, or everyone who survived them would have noticed it.
Therefore it is extremely fair to say they were wrong.
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We know for a fact the Nameless created numerous Great Spirits like the Moon and Sun as seen in Imperturbable Stars and Time in the very last chapter.
Also, the Bond mechanics are very Ling Qi-centric. Most cultivators might not manifest them at all and some might manifest Bond chains like you described. Someone that puts the connections between people as a part of their Domain for example, as opposed to Ling Qi cares more for people she herself loves.
Or they were all murdered by some angry Great Spirit after they lost the protection of their Sublime Ancestor and didn't realize just how vulnerable they were living away from the Nameless Mother's protection.
No one knows what happened to the Weilu, just that they disappeared. Saying that they annihilated themselves out of sheer decadence is really uncharitable.
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That's clearly myth, not history. Which isn't to say its wrong! Maybe the Hidden Moon is incorrect or speaking figuratively. But the Hidden Moon did say that humanity created the Great Spirits.
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Why did they lose the protection of their Ancestor, again?
Again, no one knows. That the deer was disgusted with their decadence is just a theory. Unless there are some records of the deer talking to people about why they were leaving?
Normally theories are pretty good but the Weilu were rather isolated from outsiders and SAs don't tend to interact much with foreigners, while obviously everyone is going to be wondering about why this stuff was happening. Its a recipe for a high noise-to-signal ratio.
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- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
We don't know what really happened, but I am not inclined to think charitably about the Weilu, or their theory about the false divide between people. After all, if they truly believed that, why does it seem that only those baring their blood were invited for that final ritual?
To me there seems to be a disconnect between what the Weilu believed and how they acted. This does not fill me with confidence about their theories or fate.
To me there seems to be a disconnect between what the Weilu believed and how they acted. This does not fill me with confidence about their theories or fate.