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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I believe that this is the correct, or at least better, path forward. Now if only it wasn't so painful.

[x] Remind Cai Renxiang that has already had her fitting
 
CornyBones said:
[X] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.

Renxiang hates when people make decisions for her. It's the recurring theme throughout her life, and option 1 is *exactly* that. It's applying her worst memory to her idealized best one, in an attempt to override any counter-argument. Option 2 gives her the agency to wake *herself* up.
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It's giving her the *actual* key piece of information she needs to wake herself up. It isn't making any decision for her whatsoever. Both options are just about giving her information - one just dances around the subject in a coy fashion.

Liming waking up and taking control of her otoh...
 
[x] Remind Cai Renxiang that has already had her fitting

with Liming having a flesh face and bleeding, im wondering if her mother literally built liming out of cai. Like a more useful horcrux. Would explain what it always seems to be angry and in pain if its built from the trauma of a 6 year old.
 
lioli said:
The fingers are probably Renxiang's work, from her continued severing of Liming's influence, but the facial transplant and mouth binding are definitely Cai Shenhua's doing.
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I'm pretty sure the severed fingers are the threads Liming "donated" to our gown.

Xepheria said:
I want to be able to look her in the eye and show her that we know her, that we're not just a retainer but a also a friend.
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And I think this is the part where a friend would remind her of the reality she's running from, even though it hurts. Trying to argue and convince her...that's the thing anyone could do here. But knowing what it is she's trying to escape, and promising to stand with her while she tries to work through it? That's what a friend does. Her current relationship with Liming looks like it's hurting them both, because they were (seemingly) both hurt and abused by the Duchess, and set in opposition to each other to force each other to greater and greater heights. There needs to be a reconciliation, and part of that is accepting that the things done to them cannot be undone, but they can be moved past. I feel like breaking out of the dream without having CRX acknowledge her spirit would be...maybe not a mistake, but a step in the wrong direction, long term.

It could be argued that this isn't the time for it, that we need CRX at the top of her game instead of struggling through a conflict with her spirit, but I'm a sucker for things growing past their prescribed roles, and having part of CRX's healing process involve her helping Liming too is exactly the sort of plotline I want to see here.
 
[X] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.
 
Do keep in mind that it's not as if CRX will KNOW we picked reminding her of the fitting over a different alternative. As far as she knows, coming up with telling her about the gown was the only thing that occurred to LQ at the moment. LQ grasping at straws here, and it's not like CRX can go "Why did you choose to tell me about THAT when I know you knew there were gentler ways to wake me up?!"
 
adaer said:
And I think this is the part where a friend would remind her of the reality she's running from, even though it hurts. Trying to argue and convince her...that's the thing anyone could do here. But knowing what it is she's trying to escape, and promising to stand with her while she tries to work through it? That's what a friend does. Her current relationship with Liming looks like it's hurting them both, because they were (seemingly) both hurt and abused by the Duchess, and set in opposition to each other to force each other to greater and greater heights. There needs to be a reconciliation, and part of that is accepting that the things done to them cannot be undone, but they can be moved past. I feel like breaking out of the dream without having CRX acknowledge her spirit would be...maybe not a mistake, but a step in the wrong direction, long term.
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You have it all backwards though. Reminding her Liming exists is what anybody could do, because Liming existing is a pretty clear fact. Actually engaging with the society that is her brainchild, now that takes someone who actually knows Renxiang and cares enough to be actually aware of what her life's work is going to be.
 
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"Lady Renxiang. I am doing exactly what you recruited me to do," Ling Qi shot back cooly, not letting herself be intimidated. "You are hurt. I do not know how, but… you speak of foundations and building, do you think that you can afford to let yours be damaged?" Despite herself, Ling Qi really was beginning to worry that she was going to far. "I am telling you to stop working. Just come out this afternoon. Have tea with Meizhen and I. We can talk, or perhaps have a spar or… something."
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We already decided to confront CRX about harsh truths before. And even if the memory is traumatic, it's not like she surpassed the memory, she just doesn't like thinking about it. More than that, the other option probably means rolling the dice, I don't want to do that with this high stake.
 
NoxOfUmbra said:
The thing about confronting trauma, it feels bad for me. I mean ut's an external force forcing you to confront something unpleasant before you are ready for it, LQ was the one to pick up the inconsistencies from her dream and she was the one to deny it. Forcing the issue with Renxiang is not the same thing, it's forcing her to confront that, not letting her make that choice. Self-assurance is important. It does nothing if Renxiang isn't the one who realizes what's going on, we cannot force it on her, we have to guide her to the realization.

Renxiang issues are also way heavier than Ling Qi's
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There's an external force making her forget her greatest trauma. This is probably the only five minutes that she hasn't been reminded of her trauma since it happened.

[x] Remind Cai Renxiang that has already had her fitting
 
[X] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.
Erebeal said:
Yes, as you say - she's going to remember anyway.

Option 2 then doesn't actually hide it - it just allows Ling Qi to absolve herself of personal responsibility for any suffering. It allows her to dance around the issue and fail to address things to the best of her ability for the sake of pretending that it's not her fault. Because yeah, let's be honest, this plot is going to tie heavily into Renxiang's arc and character development one way or the other, and it's not going to be easy for her no matter what.
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This assumes that the suffering is required. This isn't some case where Renxiang has chosen to suppress her memories and move on with her life as if the fitting never happened during some vision quest to strengthen her dao. She's been trapped in a dream world by a malevolent spirit and when she wakes up she goes back to normal. The waking up does not need to be a traumatic reminder of something she'll be well aware of and remember when she wakes up and can instead be a case of someone who knows her well pointing out all the little flaws only someone who knows her would be able to know she'd care about and notice. This talk of arc and character development demanding she be further traumatized one way or another is exactly why I said I hate narrative arguments for these kinds of votes.
 
Lena27 said:
In the sense that they were both made by Shenhua, they're sisters. In the sense that they've both been abused by their parental figure, sure. But in the emotional, interpersonal sense? They're not sisters at all. They consider each other a cage that they are being forced to wear. They are trapped together, body and soul. Maybe once they empathize with one another more, that can change but right now they're the furthest thing from sisters.
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Yeah, that second part is...one of the classic ways abusers control multiple people. Set them against each other, make them see each other as the one causing their problems, and they'll go back and forth at each other for ever while remaining under their thumb. Your brain goes into survival mode in an abusive household, and that makes breaking out of the patterns like this really hard. To the point that even after getting out, the habits stick with you and there's a large chance of you ending up in a similar situation because it's familiar, and on some level your brain goes "I know what to do here, even though it's bad; that means it's safer than taking the risk of the unknown".
 
[X] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.
Let's say NO to mental trauma and help Ren Ren see reason herself instead of shoving it in her face.
 
Also, fridge horror: the reason Shenhua is having another kid is to make a potential replacement for 'defective' Liming/CRX. Their imperfect union may limit their potential. Like, Shenhua wouldn't leave Liming in such a revolting state unless she had no other choice. I think thankfully she had just enough motherly feelings for CRX to not just throw her directly in a trash compactor.
 
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