Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
It's worth remembering that if LQ tries to convince CRX through rhetoric and fails, Liming is going to puppet CRX to throw off Black Skys Yearning and traumatize her that way. And Liming puppeting CRX will almost certainly be more traumatic than just reminding her of the whole Liming thing. So while the facts and logic approach is higher reward, it's definitely a far riskier option. LQ does have manipulation A, though, but I still think it's an excessively risky gamble, even by quester standards.
 
Last edited:
[X] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.
 
Last edited:
I'm leaning towards going with the sure thing and reminding CRX about the fitting, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if a strong argument can be made for going with reason and rhetoric. I haven't made my mind up at all yet.
 
People worked and traded and talked going about their day on streets laid out in geometrically perfect rectangles.
Not hexagons? I can see why Shenhua mutilated her daughter, if this is what she dreams of! :V

Not sure what's going on with Liming though, looks like a load of hurt regardless. Ideally I'd like to help them and Renxiang heal and grow well. But it's probably worth doing some research into what is going on before we remove the stitches from a potential murder spirit or something.
 
I don't think we're in a position where we can sacrifice certainty. The second option has lovely flavor, trusting in our leige's ability to break her illusion with her iron grip on reason and logic, but remember that everyone is fucked if Qi fails to persuade her.
ngl you bringing up the flavor text of that second option...actually made me consider it more
No. It was when Shenua showed up during the outer sect tournament. When CRX looked like a beaten whore the next day. IIRC.
No, I'm pretty sure it's the time during her first meeting with Shenhua
 
So the options here are to either:
A) Wake CRX up by mentioning Liming which would be traumatic or
B) attempt to avoid that, but if we fail Liming will take over which is much more traumatic, and may harm our diplomatic efforts if Liming murders an ice spirit
I'm probably gonna pick option 1, I think that a sure thing is with going for in this case.
[x] Remind Cai Renxiang that has already had her fitting
 
Last edited:
Ok, so this is a really tricky vote. We've got really interesting questions raised about Liming - but we're a long way from having any answers.

My feeling though is that, looking at the dream and our experiences with it, a lot of this stuff is really just set-dressing. When Ling Qi broke out of her tribulation, it didn't just involve her going "wait this doesn't make sense" - it involved her actually confronting her desires and trauma. Asking why did I do these things? What motivates me? What do I actually want?

The key element here that stands out is not Renxiang's convenient life, and that they've all got successful careers - it's Liming. Renxiang dreams of not having been broken at 6 years old. Of getting to redo her fitting at a time when she is actually old enough to handle it. For Ling Qi, the decision that defined her life was deciding to run away from home. It is understanding her decision there and how it motivates her that is critical to understanding Ling Qi.

For Renxiang, that moment was her fitting to Liming. And she desperately wishes that it had never happened.

My feeling is that ignoring that just means we're not really addressing the dream, or what's going on.
 
If we do this and it works I expect that it will give Renxiang a useful advanced insight.
See, I'd actually say the opposite. I'd read option 2 as "lower chance of success, lower chance of trauma", while option 1 is "will succeed, but will either be highly traumatic or give advanced insight or both :V".

Option 2 just doesn't really address things meaningfully enough to give any kind of insight imo.
 
It was a childs toy, a carved wooden horse set on a wheeled platform. Richly painted, with white fur and a golden bridle, it seemed almost real in its detail. Rolling across the polished wooden floor slowly coming into view under her feet, it made a quiet squeak with each rotation of its wheels. One of them was worn or damaged.
Before it was an array of toy soldiers, their paint shining like real steel, it was a grand collection, with many horses like the one by her foot, save that they still had riders, officers with colorful banners upon their backs.
More details of the room continued to resolve, the small but richly upholstered bed, the bright wall hangings, an entire wall taken up by polished bookshelves stuffed with tomes large and small, their spines smeared with bloody handprints.
Hmm. It seems like Liming's dream space is CRX's childhood room, likely the room where Liming seized control over her body for the first time when that assassin made it past her guard

But Liming's lips were stitched shut, held closed by a neat cross stitch of steel thread, binding its lips completely shut.
It reached toward her with bleeding fingers, fingers she now noticed marked by rougher stitching at their tips. It was as if they had been chopped off and replaced.
...Merciful god, Shenhua, what did you do?!

Ling Qi felt her stomach churn a little at the implication of the shared face. "I'm sorry," she said quickly, not entirely certain what had set the spirit off. The Duchess? She was the one that had made the spirit!
Oh Ling Qi...CRX is her daughter, the Duchess made her too, and there is no love there either.
 
Well, this is a hard one. I don't trust the logic route, this realm is ultimately controlled by a malicious spirit who can mold the setting on the fly, and make Renxiang see what she wants to see. The moment we think of pointing something out, I'd bet it'd change right under our noses and Renxiang would be none the wiser because of course her perfect society has no flaws.

The only way to do this is through the fitting, hurtful as it is, the consequences of failure would be even worse.
 
I'll be voting for option one. There's gonna be trauma, but I am not in the mood for long philosophical discussions right now. It's time to throw the dice and cross the Rubicon.
 
I don't want to taint this dream. I don't want to end it by reminding her that her life can never be this happy. I want her to realize that this is an illusion, but still know that it is real and remember it so. Dreams are to be aspired to, but if we must break this one let it be by showing how it has not yet come to pass rather than that it is impossibly pure. I don't want to leave a black mark on the aspiration of a girl whose Domain is Purity, and whose dream is a perfect world. Let her have this.

[] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.
 
Damn. I feel bad for Cai Renxiang and Liming both.

On the one hand, Liming is fucked up looking. (Also, wow, is she really child-like or not...?) (Also, I wonder if those toy soldiers relate to the actual soldiers we met. That is, like Xia Lin. Is one of the figures there Xia Lin? Does Liming have some connection or limited control over the soldiers that came with Xia Lin?)

On the other hand, she's just not-part-of-Cai-Renxiang's-dream. On the other other hand, it's for perfectly freaking understandable reasons.

I wonder how they relate towards each other? Liming and Cai Renxiang, that is. Renxiang probably sees Liming as a source of pain and trauma... But, what does Liming see Renxiang as? Can't just be a source of trauma. It's Cai Shenhua that did that to Liming. Sure, Renxiang might not want a lot to do with Liming... but that has to do with how Liming relates to her, too.


I wonder if Liming and Renxiang would prefer to have the freedom to be able to each go their own ways? If they could have that option, that is. And were capable of living apart/living on their own, and if tactical/strategic considerations weren't a thing of course. Would they take it?
 
Last edited:
Simple enough choice, it seems, evil as it is. Either we break the illusion straight out, reminding Renxiang of a harsh reality neither she nor we can escape, but forcing renxiang to relieve old trauma, which is bad for her already tired mental state from her character arc so far.

Or we roll the dice on a softer approach that that would let her recover herself without dredging up past trauma, reaffirm her beliefs and continue onward with a clearer head... But pay for it with the risk of failure, and having Renxiang be puppetted again in the real, relieving the nightmare. Which other than the trauma to her, and collateral damage (and likely souring of the LQ-Liming relation) to the local area, endangers the mission by both harming (maybe even killing) a spirit abiding by the compact of iron, and potentially inviting greater harm still from anyone attuned to the Cai brand of likely-Star based energies.

Success at option 2 is definitely the best outcome, but I feel it is weighed down by possibility for a much worse negative should we fail.

Still, the thing to keep in mind is that we are in a battle of understanding of desire, so it's not like the second option is doomed outright. A hard choice indeed.
 
I'd be pissed, if in one of Ling Qi's tribulations (where she actually has a chance to pull it off) there'd be interruption by someone allowing to bypass the whole thing. Helping on the other hand...?
 
I'll be voting for option one. There's gonna be trauma, but I am not in the mood for long philosophical discussions right now. It's time to throw the dice and cross the Rubicon.
Yeah, this isn't a scenario where we can go for the uncertain path.
Honestly, I'm not sure I'm viewing this as a "Lesser evil or no? Certainty or no?" choice thing.

This might just be... well. A choice of honesty and/or sincerity. It's not about "Do we take the sure thing?" It's about "Do we point out the truth to our friend?"

Are we going to be honest and truthful to our friend. Rather than "Do we hit below the belt in order to win the thing?"


EDIT: Er.

By which I mean, "Choosing to point out the Liming thing" is the honesty and sincerity choice.

Rather than the "Do you suckerpunch Cai Renxiang in order to win the challenge?" choice.

Be honest and truthful, and point out the Liming thing. Rather than try to muster every bit of rhetoric you can. Because I feel like trying to use rhetoric will be trying to argue a lie -- or at least, rather, trying to avoid an unpleasant truth.

Because that's what it would be. Trying to avoid an unpleasant and hurtful truth.

So, I'd rather be sincere and honest to Cai Renxiang here.

And then help them afterwards.
 
Last edited:
Hm.

My first instinct here is towards the second option, for a couple of reasons:

The first is that I feel like Liming was just as traumatised by the fitting as Renxiang was, going by her reaction to the Duchess' name. Bringing up the fitting, the metaphorical equivalent of throwing a bucket of ice water full of crabs at CRX, will absolutely piss Liming the fuck off, and she's the scariest thing here. It's possible that mentioning it might accelerate the timeline of Liming waking up, though that's only speculation. Regardless, it'll be incredibly traumatising for CRX.

Part of the allure of choosing CRX for this dream dive was to be able to get more insight into her character, and to be able to demonstrate how much better we understand her. The second option, feels like a natural progression of Ling Qi and Renxiang's interactions over the course of Threads, from the bandits, to the tea party, to here. I want to be able to look her in the eye and show her that we know her, that we're not just a retainer but a also a friend.

And friends don't toss friends down into a bucket of trauma and crabs.
 
I don't want to taint this dream. I don't want to end it by reminding her that her life can never be this happy. I want her to realize that this is an illusion, but still know that it is real and remember it so. Dreams are to be aspired to, but if we must break this one let it be by showing how it has not yet come to pass rather than that it is impossibly pure. I don't want to leave a black mark on the aspiration of a girl whose Domain is Purity, and whose dream is a perfect world. Let her have this.

[] Use every scrap of reason and rhetoric you can muster to open her eyes.
I mean she literally can't have this, and she'll remember that as soon as she wakes up anyway.

Tackling it ultimately requires her to start from the position of "how do I heal from Liming" rather than just dreaming that it never happened.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top