- Location
- Spain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, oh, oh! Great!! Thanks a lot for answering me @NotAlwaysFanfic!
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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
In the beginning was Taiji, the Absolute. All power, no form. Raw chaotic energy.
It divides into two. Yin and Yang, Reaction and Action.
For the genre's foundational mythos, the 'correct' Way is to cultivate in balance. Focusing exclusively on one of them is supposed to drive you insane, because pure hungry passivity turns you into a vampire/succubus in mentality, and pure dynamic action leaves you chained to a boulder because you can never stop acting. It'd maximize cultivation drugs, sites and dice stacking, but the same could be said for mono-element, which was similarly advised against.
This is why the Black symbol of Yin has a dot of White in the middle and the White symbol of Yang has a dot of Black in the middle.
And most cultivators have MOST arts focusing on one of them, most is not all. Any given Green cultivator could be expected to have a number of arts across the spectrum.
Where is this myth from? Is it from some Asian myth, an important work of the genre, or something else?
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
It's Taoism, the root of cultivation and pretty much every trope in Wuxia and Xianxia. Probably has even older origins than that.
- Location
- Spain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have to say it, I have loved this chapter!! I'm so glad that the Gan option won...
I have really liked both the interactions between the characters and everything related with building roads, establishing new settlements, geomantic principles, magical construction tasks, how the disciples replant the trees that Zhengui has convinced to move away and how the "recalcitrant" trees are cut down... I have really loved it too much!!
Infinite thanks for writing it @yrsillar !!
P.S. Honestly, everything related with crafts, agriculture, mining and construction mixed with fantasy seem fascinating and very interesting to me!
Sun, Moon, and Star. Hmm... Fun combination to talk about, but its lacking - we're a group of four plus Cai now, not just a trinity. So, we need to see our new members pick up some Wind and Cloud so they can be the Storm.
Wouldn't the root of cultivation be Buddhism? Meditation for enlightenment and all that?
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
No. Cultivation is a pretty straightforward fictionalized version of Taoist internal alchemy, the process by which jing, qi, and shen are cultivated and immortality reached.
You say straight forwards, but I'm seeing stories about transcendence, defying the heavenly order of death and rebirth, and meditation upon the mysteries of the universe to reach enlightenment. All Buddhist qualities. The divide between heavenly, mortal and earthly realms so common in xianxia stories are derived from Buddhism/Hinduism as well.
- Location
- Finland
It is my understanding that Buddhism is pretty much opposite of the "become immortal" thing cultivation stories are about.
Like, isn't the whole point of all the meditation and elightenment to get out? And the long lived and/or incarnated boddhisadvas do so not because it is great, but to help other people get out as well?
Like, isn't the whole point of all the meditation and elightenment to get out? And the long lived and/or incarnated boddhisadvas do so not because it is great, but to help other people get out as well?
Well yes, because you can argue that the first actual Xianxia story was Journey to The West, something that could charitably be called biased towards Buddist philosophy.
For those interested. RR got a bonus interlude about the Diviner. It got some... Interesting lore bits.
Link if anyone wants it:
"Bonus: The Great Diviner - Forge of Destiny | Royal Road" https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21188/forge-of-destiny/chapter/575941/bonus-the-great-diviner
"Bonus: The Great Diviner - Forge of Destiny | Royal Road" https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21188/forge-of-destiny/chapter/575941/bonus-the-great-diviner
NoxOfUmbra
Shadow of the night
- Location
- Colombia, South América
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Journey to the west was not a Xianxia, even if you look at only the first chapters, the ones that are about Sun Wukong breaking havoc in heaven, the parts that could be called Xianxia derive from Taoism, not Buddhism.
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EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
I find it a bit ironic that the Weilu clan, who were reputed to be so xenophobic and isolationist that even the Bai would take note of them, were the same clan that has its founder, Tsu the Diviner, go around asking help from its neighbors, including the Cloud tribe and some of the reputed Ice people.
Guess they grew complacent after their leader was gone.
Guess they grew complacent after their leader was gone.
- Location
- United States of America
To be honest, that bonus has made me even more hyped for making contact with the peoples beyond the Wall and, just in general, having the possibility of more interactions with a people shaped by such a land.
Extremely wrong on all but the superficial manner, because the goals here are:
-Taoism goals
--Comprehending the heavenly order
--To transcend Mortality into being part of Natural Law through the distillation of the heavenly order within the self.
-Buddhism goals
--Escape the inherent suffering of the world
--Disentangle the self from the world
Taoism seeks integration, Buddhism seeks disengagement.
Mystical Taoism distills natural essences from beasts, plants and minerals to take into the body and transform the self into a purer existence. The right things at the right time.
Buddhism idealizes taking the minimum possible, causing the least possible harm. If it were possible, do not eat at all.
Taoism attributes luck to harmony with heavenly principles. Fate is a machine, you can ride it, or you can push against it and be crushed between the gears(Xianxia wish fulfillment usually stretches the metaphor to "but why not break the machine?")
Buddhism attributes luck to karma, debts from past and present lives in the form of harm(and boons, they are tracked separately, and you will be punished for every sin even if you did more good) done to others being paid out and claimed.
Taoism establishes extensive rituals and tributes to offer to the gods of heaven, the ghosts of forebears and earthly spirits in order to work together effectively via a system of effectively bribing, sweet talking, and if the spirit is weak and disagreeable, ritually beating the spirit into submission.
Buddhism enspouses respect, but no more. It suggests gods, spirits and ghosts are not fundamentally different existences, merely carrying different levels of karma. Stay out of their way where possible.
Most Xianxia characters are merely deviant or obsessed under the Taoist model, but they would be utter monsters under the Buddhist one, likely needing to be put down just so they can stop sinning so fast.
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- Location
- CA
Good effort post, but I'm distracted as hell by the phrase "needing to be put down to stop sinning so fast."
Man spits blood, before setting his jaw. You could use its edge to chop nails and split iron.
"Mabel, get the gun. It's time."
Camera zooms out, revealing a conveyor belt moving at extreme speed. It is carrying puppies. Every time a puppy drops off the line, Xianxia Protagonist punts it into the middle distance. Mabel also spits blood.
"He's sinning so fast! He's finally gone too far."
Buddhism certainly doesn't approve of such characters but a great deal of their stories concern themselves with people like them. Said stories have the monstrously powerful and greedy protagonist end up being confronted by a representative of Buddhism. The encounter can go several ways but always ends up with them ultimately accepting Buddhist ideals. Think Monkey encountering the Buddha or Meruem fighting Netero.
Xianxia naturally has those encounters turn out very differently.
I would think that Ling Qi is actually pretty healthy under Taoist, Confucian and even Buddhist thought. She faithfully serves her liege and practices filial piety (Confucian virtues), while cultivation is sort of inherently Taoist. Buddhism would be the most critical of her but her greed for connections and control (not great things under Buddhism!) are nonetheless tempered by several of her insights. She is even beginning to cultivate the start of universal love. Buddhism would probably view her as a troubled child who is on a good path.
You know, speaking as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
You have it pretty close, missing only one point, where emotions should be distant and desires rational to be a proper Taoist sage(as in, the mythological cultivator equivalents can literally lose lifespan from losing control of their emotions when at high levels of power, hence spitting blood as they suddenly age.
(Sun Wukong is thus courteously kept far away from everything because ole Monkey was really good at provocation way back when)
IIRC, back in Forge in the lore post about Sublime Ancestors, it said that the Horned Lord left his descendants in disgust. Forgetting the lessons of their founder probably had something to do with that. I have to wonder if he'd already left or not by the time of the Mason's War.
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- Location
- Greece
Considering the genre as a whole and how it operates likea bad fanfic with extreme moral dissonance and protagonist centered morality (good stories like this and eh stories that know how to avoid making their mc too evil nonwithstanding) most Xianxia characters would be monsters by any moral system, except maybe the inaptly named objectivism .
So CRX is the ideal taoist cultivator then?
CRX is a very Confucian character to the point that I would be hard pressed to come up with a more Confucian one. She's a little... rigid to be an ideal taoist. I would consider Ji Rong to be a better example of the Taoist values. His reaction to his defeat in our duel before he left would probably be a better example of the sort of "behaving rationally" Taoists value than CRX's attempts to suppress her emotions.
The Outer Sect war games call to mind classic Taoist fables where some Taoist monk humiliates a Confucian official, only with yrsillar taking the Confucian scholar's side instead. Presumably they would have played out conventionally if Ling Qi had chosen to follow Sun Liling.
Apologies for the edits, Picklepikki
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The Sky That Fell
Great Father is the first Sky, whose arrows are the lightning, and whose hoofbeats are the wind, whose mane is the clear blue sky.
The second Sky is the Starson, who led the greatest hunt of all. He who hunted the Gods, and fashioned their bones into his armaments. He who gave the Mountains to the People, to hunt forevermore.
The third Sky is the first whose name is not sealed. Mighty Balamber, Lord of Summer, who faced the bloodtide in the west, stirred to madness by the lowlander kings. He who met the Red Jungle in war and enforced the Compact of the Red Noon.
The fourth Sky is Wise Metok, Lord of the Spring. Whose fury is the flood, and whose compassion is the rain. He whose wisdom wrought the seasons, and bound the Crone to return to her lands of Always Winter each year.
The fifth Sky is Stolid Sarangerel, Lady of the Night. Who brings health to babes, and guides the cunning hunters eye. She who carved the first mask, and whispered the secret names of the traitor stars unto the moon.
The Sixth Sky is Wroth Batu, Lord of War. Who lead the first host of the people to war, and beat back the Children of Trees. Glory to him, who shattered the Stag Lord's Horns! Glory to him, who kept the People free.
The Seventh Sky… never came.
For many centuries had the people yearned for the rise of a new Sky, to finish the work of Batu. Onward had come the lowlanders, digging like worms into the flesh of the mountains to carve out their hearts. The warriors of the people fought, and yet ever onward they crept, innumerable as the great locust tide. One year at a time, one valley at a time, the People lost.
He came then, a humble boy of a defeated tribe, taken into the household of his father's sister. Yet, bold was the child Ogodei, and the path of a mere hunter would not satisfy the thirst for glory in his heart. A warrior born, he swiftly dominated the games of boys, and earned his wings. There he earned the favor of childless Mondor, Khan of the Thunder Bearers tribe, and rose swiftly in the esteem of the warriors.
Many trials awaited him. Warriors dissatisfied with the Khan's favor gave to him deadly tasks, and each one he conquered. Twice did he fend off ambushes from collaborators of other tribes, seeking his life. But the first true sign of glory came at his day of bonding. There did Ogodei refuse to accept a a Beast Self of the tribes bloodline, even a foal of Khan Mondors line. He claimed the Rite of Founding, and set forth to establish his claim.
None can say what adventures and journeys the young khan had, the highest mountain peaks, where Father's storms rage eternal. Yet, after ten years, long after he was assumed dead, did Ogodei descend, aback a mighty Dragon Horse, whose scales glittered as ice, and whose horn was Father's lightning made manifest. Young Warriors flocked to him, and young women fought for the right to challenge for his hand.
Once again did the young Khan earn consternation when he chose gentle Sarnai of the Thunder Bearers as his bride, daughter of a simple hunter, a girl he had known in his youth. Alas, when the young Khan left upon his marital quest, tragedy did strike. Lowlanders under the name of Li came to the thunderbearer's grazing peak, seeking the wealth in its heart. There was slain the Khan Mondor, his warriors and gentle Sarnai alike.
Wroth was Ogodei, upon his return, and the remains of the Thunderbearers joined him without thought. Then and there, many believed would the youth fall upon the Li, and be slain in turn. Yet it was not so, for in Ogodei, it seemed the Wisdom of Metok was strong. So it was that for two hundred years did the young Khan harden himself against vengeance, and work to grow. He hunted mighty beasts, and warred with mighty Khans.
He was magnanimous in victory, taking only the proper amount, and sparing warriors where he could. And all the while, did the Khan whisper words of vengeance and unity in the ears of the tribes. When the Grand Kurultai came, he proved himself strong in the favor of the First in Second, and like storm clouds gathering, the allies of Ogodei grew.
He grew strong, stronger than all but the mightiest of Khans, and soon, as strong as they as well. The Seventh Sky had come, the warriors whispered, and the time to strike back was nigh. Batu had Broken the Forest Lords Horns, but Ogodei, Lord of Lightning, would burn their forests to the ground, and drive them from the hills forevermore.
Yet still, the greatest Khans resisted, for they as well had achieved the realm of Ogodei, though each of the three was old and gray and more no illusions of rising to become a Sky. And so, did Ogodei undergo one last trial.
The foul kin of the old Gods had crept back into the mountains, carried by the lowlander scum. There, did one of the scaled worms of the sky dare call itself king.
And, like the Starson before him did Ogodei cast the beast down and fashion armor of its hide.
For the first time since the days of the Gods did more than half of the People gather under one banner.
With offerings of dragon's blood did Ogodei open the vaults of the Starson, and receive a cache of his arrows. When the first one flew, it heralded the end of days for the accursed Li and their Black Lotus Mountain. There the people purged their toxins from the land, and burned their abominable crafts to the ground.
Yet there was no call from the lowlander kings. Where the tribes fought together, they fought alone, and they died alone. Their slow soldiers and decadent lords failed to match the cunning of the great Khan, and for a time, it seemed as if victory was nigh!
A lie, a beautiful lie. None know how he fell, but fall he did.
And the lowlanders stirred with rage.
Such is the tale of the Sky that Fell. And its falling was but a prelude to the end of the People.
Unless, perhaps, a true Seventh Sky comes.
The second Sky is the Starson, who led the greatest hunt of all. He who hunted the Gods, and fashioned their bones into his armaments. He who gave the Mountains to the People, to hunt forevermore.
The third Sky is the first whose name is not sealed. Mighty Balamber, Lord of Summer, who faced the bloodtide in the west, stirred to madness by the lowlander kings. He who met the Red Jungle in war and enforced the Compact of the Red Noon.
The fourth Sky is Wise Metok, Lord of the Spring. Whose fury is the flood, and whose compassion is the rain. He whose wisdom wrought the seasons, and bound the Crone to return to her lands of Always Winter each year.
The fifth Sky is Stolid Sarangerel, Lady of the Night. Who brings health to babes, and guides the cunning hunters eye. She who carved the first mask, and whispered the secret names of the traitor stars unto the moon.
The Sixth Sky is Wroth Batu, Lord of War. Who lead the first host of the people to war, and beat back the Children of Trees. Glory to him, who shattered the Stag Lord's Horns! Glory to him, who kept the People free.
The Seventh Sky… never came.
For many centuries had the people yearned for the rise of a new Sky, to finish the work of Batu. Onward had come the lowlanders, digging like worms into the flesh of the mountains to carve out their hearts. The warriors of the people fought, and yet ever onward they crept, innumerable as the great locust tide. One year at a time, one valley at a time, the People lost.
He came then, a humble boy of a defeated tribe, taken into the household of his father's sister. Yet, bold was the child Ogodei, and the path of a mere hunter would not satisfy the thirst for glory in his heart. A warrior born, he swiftly dominated the games of boys, and earned his wings. There he earned the favor of childless Mondor, Khan of the Thunder Bearers tribe, and rose swiftly in the esteem of the warriors.
Many trials awaited him. Warriors dissatisfied with the Khan's favor gave to him deadly tasks, and each one he conquered. Twice did he fend off ambushes from collaborators of other tribes, seeking his life. But the first true sign of glory came at his day of bonding. There did Ogodei refuse to accept a a Beast Self of the tribes bloodline, even a foal of Khan Mondors line. He claimed the Rite of Founding, and set forth to establish his claim.
None can say what adventures and journeys the young khan had, the highest mountain peaks, where Father's storms rage eternal. Yet, after ten years, long after he was assumed dead, did Ogodei descend, aback a mighty Dragon Horse, whose scales glittered as ice, and whose horn was Father's lightning made manifest. Young Warriors flocked to him, and young women fought for the right to challenge for his hand.
Once again did the young Khan earn consternation when he chose gentle Sarnai of the Thunder Bearers as his bride, daughter of a simple hunter, a girl he had known in his youth. Alas, when the young Khan left upon his marital quest, tragedy did strike. Lowlanders under the name of Li came to the thunderbearer's grazing peak, seeking the wealth in its heart. There was slain the Khan Mondor, his warriors and gentle Sarnai alike.
Wroth was Ogodei, upon his return, and the remains of the Thunderbearers joined him without thought. Then and there, many believed would the youth fall upon the Li, and be slain in turn. Yet it was not so, for in Ogodei, it seemed the Wisdom of Metok was strong. So it was that for two hundred years did the young Khan harden himself against vengeance, and work to grow. He hunted mighty beasts, and warred with mighty Khans.
He was magnanimous in victory, taking only the proper amount, and sparing warriors where he could. And all the while, did the Khan whisper words of vengeance and unity in the ears of the tribes. When the Grand Kurultai came, he proved himself strong in the favor of the First in Second, and like storm clouds gathering, the allies of Ogodei grew.
He grew strong, stronger than all but the mightiest of Khans, and soon, as strong as they as well. The Seventh Sky had come, the warriors whispered, and the time to strike back was nigh. Batu had Broken the Forest Lords Horns, but Ogodei, Lord of Lightning, would burn their forests to the ground, and drive them from the hills forevermore.
Yet still, the greatest Khans resisted, for they as well had achieved the realm of Ogodei, though each of the three was old and gray and more no illusions of rising to become a Sky. And so, did Ogodei undergo one last trial.
The foul kin of the old Gods had crept back into the mountains, carried by the lowlander scum. There, did one of the scaled worms of the sky dare call itself king.
And, like the Starson before him did Ogodei cast the beast down and fashion armor of its hide.
For the first time since the days of the Gods did more than half of the People gather under one banner.
With offerings of dragon's blood did Ogodei open the vaults of the Starson, and receive a cache of his arrows. When the first one flew, it heralded the end of days for the accursed Li and their Black Lotus Mountain. There the people purged their toxins from the land, and burned their abominable crafts to the ground.
Yet there was no call from the lowlander kings. Where the tribes fought together, they fought alone, and they died alone. Their slow soldiers and decadent lords failed to match the cunning of the great Khan, and for a time, it seemed as if victory was nigh!
A lie, a beautiful lie. None know how he fell, but fall he did.
And the lowlanders stirred with rage.
Such is the tale of the Sky that Fell. And its falling was but a prelude to the end of the People.
Unless, perhaps, a true Seventh Sky comes.
Hmm, is that Papa River Eel?
TimEd
Meteor maker
Ahhh. Ally of Tsu, we hear from you again.
So Ogodei's Fall is still a mystery? Argent Sect's Sect Master was famed for driving the tribes off after Ogodei was already gone right?
Any chance Ogodei just got tired/disgusted/something of slaughtering lowlanders? Cant quite remember Ogodei's End from Imperial history.
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