Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Also, just wanted to thank yrsillar for all his amazing work. This arc and what we are building up to has probably been the best part of the quest so far. Or at least my hype is making it so for me. Last arc was really well done with tension, action, lots of choices that were various degrees of good and bad and a pretty good finale. Overall thought It was really great, but I'm so looking forward to the coming conflict. I mean, yeah war is a terrible terrible thing. But so much character growth, relationship growths, exploring, combat and it's completely changed the course of our game. While yeah, might be annoying for our plans and stuff, at the same time there are so many more options that are going to be available (or at least it feels so). Also...my undying dream has come. We are totally going to be allowed to steal shit from the barbarins. I'm looking forward to the combat, loot, raids, and maybe teaming up with our friends. But so, so looking forward to being able to level up larceny again. So great job yrsillar, I'm really looking forward to this.
 
Anyway, I've been thinking about SSC and how we can leverage it's hinted at bonuses regarding interacting with spirits to our advantage. Preferably getting as much as we can without spending inordinate amounts of time trying to find these spirits to interact with. Because with a war going on, rankings now determined by our contributions to the Sect, and our own cultivation goals, time is not something we have plenty of to spare.

I feel, therefore, that instead of trying to just canvas an area or hoping to get lucky in our forays through the wilderness, we instead attempt to connect and build a network of high-ranking spirits who know where to find other high ranking spirits. Start with the spirits that we know we can find, interact with them and try to get whatever knowledge they have on the locations of other powerful spirits.

Outside of those directly bounded to Elders or Core Sect members, we have a couple of good places to start. We have:
  1. The Cyan Spider which Li Suyin interacted with;
  2. The Cyan Deer in the forests around that Temple we helped;
  3. The Cyan Leigong that we met in the thunderstorm;
  4. The Court of Moon Spirits at the Moon Tower.
All of these spirits, or court of spirits, we have had some prior interactions or connections with and they didn't kill us. (The one exception is the Cyan Spider, but we do have an in via Sixiang communicating the desire for more alcohol and Li Suyin's own interactions.) Given how strong these spirits are, it seems prudent to start any such search and interaction with powerful spirits that we already have interacted with and didn't hurt us before. Especially if we are asking for more information about the spirits in the surrounding lands.

Now, this is all in case SSC doesn't have a system similar to the Moon Quests from EPC to send us on the hunt for powerful spirits. Because if SSC does have a similar system, then the choice becomes pretty simple in following the guidance of SSC.
 
Wait, what was the first thing that got retconned out of quest canon?

Here, from the retconnian of the informational section (maybe it should be edit updated now?)

Now there is one additional announcement to make. there have been TWO outright retcons to previous canon, which will be acknowledged in the rewrite.

1. Sun Liling is Sun Shao's Great Grandaughter, rather than Grandaughter
2. The age at which you receive an automatic ennoblement at realm 3 has been reduced to 17 for verisimilitude purposes
 
Anyway, I've been thinking about SSC and how we can leverage it's hinted at bonuses regarding interacting with spirits to our advantage. Preferably getting as much as we can without spending inordinate amounts of time trying to find these spirits to interact with. Because with a war going on, rankings now determined by our contributions to the Sect, and our own cultivation goals, time is not something we have plenty of to spare.

Outside of those directly bounded to Elders or Core Sect members, we have a couple of good places to start. We have:
  1. The Cyan Spider which Li Suyin interacted with;
  2. The Cyan Deer in the forests around that Temple we helped;
  3. The Cyan Leigong that we met in the thunderstorm;
  4. The Court of Moon Spirits at the Moon Tower.
We should probably ask Moon Aunties about the history of local spirit courts, especially Dreaming. It seems possible that the Weilu may have had broad spirit/fae courts, which were massively unbalanced by the civil war and ultimately collapsed. We know that the traditionalists know of Dreaming's Court, and if anyone could hold parties of disparate spirits and keep them all relatively amenable it'd be Dreaming's flux,change,transmutation and madness right?

of those spirits I would most want to revisit the Deer. Followed by the Moon court and Spider. Assuming we get an invite to go to thunderpalace with Nuan and don't go of our own accord. I would be inclined to ask the Cyan Deer first about the history of spirit courts (if Moon Aunties aren't available) because Deer are sacred in this region. Knowing that one is here, is important. And we don't really know anything about why.
Dreaming's Tower we can hazard a guess about why it's here. The spider is probably adjacent to Yin's trapdoor spider. The Leigong seems like a shepherd in the Southern Thunder King's Court or some such. But what is deer? Who is deer? Why is deer?

inquiring minds would like to know! xD
 
I don't remember this. Can you quote what you're referring to?
That was this, back in FoD, which is where we got the New Moon Puzzle Box:
The final shrine was a vast redwood tree, stretching over a hundred meters tall. It clung tenaciously to the edge of the sinkhole, roots as thick as a human torso curling out into empty air while others anchored it to the remaining earth. By all logic, it looked like it should have tipped into the hole, and yet it stood steady. The actual shrine took the form of a hollow carved into trunk a few handspans wide and perhaps a meter high.

The skull of a stag, seemingly cast from liquid silver that gleamed in the moonlight in the moonlight was affixed to the wood just above of the hollow, which held a small shelf for offerings. Unlike the others, it was not damaged, merely neglected. The blank eye sockets stared down at her as she busied herself arranging the prepared offerings. Dried and treated fruits, a portion of cured meat, and other such knicknacks, meant to appease the spirit which presided over the place.

With everything in place, she carefully kneeled among the roots and lowered her head, offering the correct words of propitiation. It took time for the last of the hostile air to fade, but when she opened her eyes, the offerings were gone, save for a few scraps.

She carefully swept those back into the bag, letting out a breath of satisfaction now that the job was done. As she turned around though, she froze.

Behind barely three meters away, there loomed a massive shadow, great many pointed horns curved into the air, gleaming with the light of the moon meters above her head. One did not normally think of a deer as a frightening animal, but the massive black furred mountain of muscle, more than three times her height at the shoulder, certainly put the lie to that. The potent mass of its qi, a match for what she felt in Zeqing's storms put to rest any other doubts.

She stared into the creatures silver eyes for a few horrifying seconds as it bent its neck to peer at her, nostrils flaring as it scented her. Slowly, almost mechanically, she clapped her hands together and bowed her head in silent respect. What else could she do at this point?

Moments ticked by while Ling Qi tried to calm her nerves. She had not made any mistakes, she would be fine. It was difficult to to flinch when she felt the spirit beasts breath on her face, felt her hair fluttering in the breeze it kicked up as it snorted, but then it was gone. The weight of its presence vanished, and she heard a soft thump as something landed at her feet.

She opened her eyes, seeing nothing but the ragged landscape of fallen trees, and four deep depressions in the earth in the shape of hooves. She glanced down, and found a small wooden cube covered in complex silver patterns. Carefully picking it up, she found that the silver lines picked out dozens of tiny wood slats, some of which moved when pushed.

She had seen puzzle boxes before, but never one so complex. On its side though, covering the largest solid piece, was a black circle chased in white. The sign of the new moon. Ling Qi peered around, but she still alone. Perhaps Xin was still looking out for her?
 
I don't remember this. Can you quote what you're referring to?
Yep.
With everything in place, she carefully kneeled among the roots and lowered her head, offering the correct words of propitiation. It took time for the last of the hostile air to fade, but when she opened her eyes, the offerings were gone, save for a few scraps.

She carefully swept those back into the bag, letting out a breath of satisfaction now that the job was done. As she turned around though, she froze.

Behind barely three meters away, there loomed a massive shadow, great many pointed horns curved into the air, gleaming with the light of the moon meters above her head. One did not normally think of a deer as a frightening animal, but the massive black furred mountain of muscle, more than three times her height at the shoulder, certainly put the lie to that. The potent mass of its qi, a match for what she felt in Zeqing's storms put to rest any other doubts.

She stared into the creatures silver eyes for a few horrifying seconds as it bent its neck to peer at her, nostrils flaring as it scented her. Slowly, almost mechanically, she clapped her hands together and bowed her head in silent respect. What else could she do at this point?

Moments ticked by while Ling Qi tried to calm her nerves. She had not made any mistakes, she would be fine. It was difficult to to flinch when she felt the spirit beasts breath on her face, felt her hair fluttering in the breeze it kicked up as it snorted, but then it was gone. The weight of its presence vanished, and she heard a soft thump as something landed at her feet.

She opened her eyes, seeing nothing but the ragged landscape of fallen trees, and four deep depressions in the earth in the shape of hooves. She glanced down, and found a small wooden cube covered in complex silver patterns. Carefully picking it up, she found that the silver lines picked out dozens of tiny wood slats, some of which moved when pushed.

She had seen puzzle boxes before, but never one so complex. On its side though, covering the largest solid piece, was a black circle chased in white. The sign of the new moon. Ling Qi peered around, but she still alone. Perhaps Xin was still looking out for her?

It's the deer that gave us the puzzle box (likely at Xin's instruction) after we helped right shrines in the forest. It's qi was a match for Zeqing's qi and Zeqing was a cyan, likely a High Cyan if I am remembering correctly.
 
see the problem there is that you're not empowering the "line workers" to accomplish anything alone. I would argue for the reds to learn mobility and defensive arts first is that against a threat that their superhuman abilities and skill (if they're red-capped they have plenty of time to reach Peak Red Ability) cannot handle they need to be able to survive long enough to get help in terms of other reds or higher ups. By empowering the line workers, you can cast wider nets of lower density troops with the Yellow Line Managers using sensory techniques to keep track of them should they disappear without warning despite their focus on defense and mobility.

Green Face Punchers are cool and all, but a dedicated alpha striker should be able to significantly weaken a face-puncher while the numbers of Reds and Yellows that are relatively difficult to kill apply pressure and run interference. Reds mass buffing one another is cool but makes the web weak to isolation of individual elements *especially*if the yellows are incapacitated. I would rather the Yellows focus in on the buffing and sensory with their time while retaining the defensive spine and mobility legs of their days in Red.
Being able to Put the Target Down and Deploy Rapidly are the two most important things for an Assassin/HVT killer. Flip the spine defensive techs to a stealth/mobility mix and you've got a good asset to stunt Barbs with, exploiting the weakness of relying on web-buffs by sniping out HVT's after they've made the first move. Minimizing casualties with Defensive and Mobility spec. A few capped yellows that stay near the hardpoints that are specced into more Force/Power than Mobility would be good. All Greens coming out of yellow having some yellow era group buff arts is helpful, in case the HVT kill is successful they have heart meridians for ExtraCasualtiesDuringRout sort of buffs.

all of this emphasis on mobility is especially pertinent given the large distances being covered by our forces. The only person that beat us in Speed in Forge was Liling, and I think that's no accident. Outside of the regimented regions of Imperial Territory redeployment and reinforcement time are extremely important (as we saw with our own rapid response powers). Hell, dedicated transport/mobility Yellows might be important too. Making sure that their forces can arrive and beat with force of numbers

Hmm, I'd probably approach it logistically first before considering tactics.
Main limitations:
-The typical fresh Red cultivator has TWO meridians openable without great time, or wealth expended.
--A veteran near the upper bounds of red cultivation may have four.
--Officer quality Yellows may have double that(someone check me on the difficulties of lower Talent, but IIRC Yellow income should be enough to push them over the edge if they saved up for drugs).

-Meridian slots are fixed in position and determines the Arts they can learn.
--Their first Meridian is not going to be Head or Heart. This is important when the typical dude will have two meridians.

-At Red, you do not need Arts to be considered proficient OR effective with a given weapon, a Cultivator can reach mortal mastery without it, a Red talisman of decent quality adds around as much as a Red 1 art.

-Ratios we see used repeatedly seem to be 4 Reds to 1 Yellow in the army, so I'll use that as the basis.
--We can assume most army Yellows are promoted from Reds. They should be built like a Red who got there by veterancy, so they keep their Meridian spread as a Red but add a few Heart meridians so they can go from self-affecting stealth/speed/protection/attack buffs into group versions of their Red arts).

So a sample build:
-Scout Unit
--Yellow Scout Leader(Leg x2, Heart x2, Head, Spine, ) - Has a Group Stealth/Group Perception art which can be switched out for a Group Stealth/Group Mobility art for the extraction
--Red Scout Spotter(Spine, Head) - Conceals self, locates target, shoots target with pure skill. Does trapping outside of military role
--Red Scout Hunter(Head, Arm) - Squad fire support. Locates and hits targets with powerful shots, relies on Group Stealth arts and mundane stealth skills for concealment. Does hunting outside of military role, as part of a group.
--Red Scout Messenger(Leg, Spine) - Mobility and Stealth arts, the one you send out if your group is made to hopefully bring a message home.
 
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Alright guys. It's been awhile and hopefully there won't be too many of these, but for the second time I am making a minor retcon to quest canon. The comb, that long wondered artifact of a forgotten plot thread, is being removed for now. The ideas attached to it may be revisted in a later storyline, but for now consider it banished to the retconnian.
well the rr story hasn't even gotten to receiving it yet. The edits have, which is why its getting retconned now, since its basically just a dangling plot thread for like a couple books worth of text
This is a bit of a shame because it seems to complete the erasure of Ling Qi's original "thing". Her wind element affinity and anomalous archery talent was clearly leading up to something that was apparently reconsidered and murdered in the crib, and the comb was the remaining possible vestige of that. I do feel, unfortunately, that if it's being retconned at this point, it should probably stay out of the story completely. The alternative means a high chance of the worst cliches and poor writing of the xianxia genre. If the comb is actually supposed to be relevant later on, then it needs to scale with us, but that would result in an increasingly powerful item/legacy/etc with sharply declining narrative presence or justification, suddenly falling out of Qingge's butt despite Ling Qi's routine presence and vigilance over the household she belongs to. It's really difficult to make any sense of.

It's also a shame because the comb got brought up again on the first turn of this thread, and then there weren't any apparent opportunities to explore it further. There was a lot of stuff to get through in the first few months, but the whole "household" arc that was plodding along would have been a good opportunity before it, well, got eaten by Zeqing actually. We got bonding with Qingge in the epilogue to Zeqing's event, but the opportunity to engage with the household as an entity didn't ever come up again, then time restraints got it shuffled into the background with the 1 AP monthly expense. The household's been "slippery" in a way, since Ling Qi stopped grappling with it, and that's extended to associated issues like actually taking an interest in household management or mysterious combs.

If you do still want to do something with the comb, my suggestion would be having one or more of the moon aunts that visit Ling Qi in turn 4 either giving further hints or, more likely, straight up saying it's not something Ling Qi can find answers for in her current environment, officially shelving the plotline until post-sect. This would be a fairly sensible place to cap it because that's close in the wake of the Zeqing fallout and contemplation on family and Zhengui and all that junk that would reasonably prompt Ling Qi's renewed curiosity on the matter.

There, my @yrsillar bullying is done for the day.

Edit: or heck, Xin could tamp expectations around the puzzle box/birthday party stuff if the moon dream is too long.
 
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Alright guys. It's been awhile and hopefully there won't be too many of these, but for the second time I am making a minor retcon to quest canon. The comb, that long wondered artifact of a forgotten plot thread, is being removed for now. The ideas attached to it may be revisted in a later storyline, but for now consider it banished to the retconnian.
As an aside on a plot thread that hasn't been relevant much, jus what are we doing with the moon map that we were provided? It's quite literally a map full of interesting places, sites, and spirits ... and nothing. I'd expect it to be a little more prominent in the narrative given that it was a reward, made over a prolonged period of time, and potentially with spirits with greater senses and cultivation than Ling QI's and so provide something like exploration bonuses or something given it's surely easier than randomly canvasing areas to find things.
 
As an aside on a plot thread that hasn't been relevant much, jus what are we doing with the moon map that we were provided? It's quite literally a map full of interesting places, sites, and spirits ... and nothing. I'd expect it to be a little more prominent in the narrative given that it was a reward, made over a prolonged period of time, and potentially with spirits with greater senses and cultivation than Ling QI's and so provide something like exploration bonuses or something given it's surely easier than randomly canvasing areas to find things.
It's been used... fairly frequently all things considered.

It showed us the path to the Moon rave, it showed us the path to the Bloody Dream site, and it showed us to the site where we were to meet with the Moon Aspects when completing EPC.

I would like to use it more, and hopefully we will be able to utilize it with SSC trying to find the hidden powers around us. However, it has been used and continues to be used whenever we do an exploration action.
 
Hmm, I'd probably approach it logistically first before considering tactics.

So a sample build:
-Scout Unit
--Yellow Scout Leader(Leg x2, Heart x2, Head, Spine, ) - Has a Group Stealth/Group Perception art which can be switched out for a Group Stealth/Group Mobility art for the extraction
--Red Scout Spotter(Spine, Head) - Conceals self, locates target, shoots target with pure skill. Does trapping outside of military role
--Red Scout Hunter(Head, Arm) - Squad fire support. Locates and hits targets with powerful shots, relies on Group Stealth arts and mundane stealth skills for concealment. Does hunting outside of military role, as part of a group.
--Red Scout Messenger(Leg, Spine) - Mobility and Stealth arts, the one you send out if your group is made to hopefully bring a message home.
I think that thinking about it in terms of discrete deployments is counter productive to our purpose as strat-level cyan planner and organizer. I agree with your talk about Talismans, but Talismans are most valuable on people that are alive. This is especially true in terms of niche-level techniques like Dispels, Powered Attacks, Stacking Debuffs, or Burst Communication / Appeasing of spirits.

While we can assume meridians for 2 arts for average new red, if we prioritize their using Spine and Leg arts we can make sure that they live long enough (and are able to deliver messages in relative safety) to train potentially more meridians and/or arts that can be swapped in as they specialize. I'm choosing Leg over Arm here because the Empire seems to have force of number, abundance of resource, and quality on their side. What did we see as the main jobs in the defense of the towns?

Organizing from surprise (communication). Holding Hard Points as squads. Facilitating evac. Search and Rescue. Rapid response to Red threats that are beneath the notice of higher ups. Most of these are made vastly better with mobility, including "holding hard points" if you want to talk about concentration of bodies/power swiftly.

in almost all games, speed is the King of stats. Scout in TF2 is only 33% faster but even with the lowest health and a very low optimal engagement range, Scout is still one of the strongest classes just from this speed. Speed offers control, tactical flexibility, and local empowerment of decision makers.

I do think some people would need to be specc'd differently to focus solely on local defense. But those would be the exceptions to the general rule. Spine/Arms or Head/Arms types that focus on dropping bold barbs that get too close to hardpoints. This would be more for cultivators that are learning some combat arts, but primarily want to craft from within the walls. Something to equip in times of trouble. Something for them, as well as the career police/guards that will assist in direct administration of more urbanized areas.

the choice of Spine is actually a no-brainer to me. From the arts we've seen that use Spine, they have very broad application and mixture into other meridian types for a wide variety of kinds of personal empowerment. Spine Head, Spine Leg, Spine Arm, Spine Heart, Spine Lung. It has been a very broad and malleable meridian, and would likely be a good first choice to open regardless of desires.

The goal at the Strat Level is to lengthen the survival rate of Reds so that they may specialize over time as well as potentially build up wealth and found a cultivator clan. If we give them the tools to survive for long enough, they will be able to choose specializations that suit them over time. This is the stance <3
 
I think that thinking about it in terms of discrete deployments is counter productive to our purpose as strat-level cyan planner and organizer. I agree with your talk about Talismans, but Talismans are most valuable on people that are alive. This is especially true in terms of niche-level techniques like Dispels, Powered Attacks, Stacking Debuffs, or Burst Communication / Appeasing of spirits.

While we can assume meridians for 2 arts for average new red, if we prioritize their using Spine and Leg arts we can make sure that they live long enough (and are able to deliver messages in relative safety) to train potentially more meridians and/or arts that can be swapped in as they specialize. I'm choosing Leg over Arm here because the Empire seems to have force of number, abundance of resource, and quality on their side. What did we see as the main jobs in the defense of the towns?

Organizing from surprise (communication). Holding Hard Points as squads. Facilitating evac. Search and Rescue. Rapid response to Red threats that are beneath the notice of higher ups. Most of these are made vastly better with mobility, including "holding hard points" if you want to talk about concentration of bodies/power swiftly.

in almost all games, speed is the King of stats. Scout in TF2 is only 33% faster but even with the lowest health and a very low optimal engagement range, Scout is still one of the strongest classes just from this speed. Speed offers control, tactical flexibility, and local empowerment of decision makers.

I do think some people would need to be specc'd differently to focus solely on local defense. But those would be the exceptions to the general rule. Spine/Arms or Head/Arms types that focus on dropping bold barbs that get too close to hardpoints. This would be more for cultivators that are learning some combat arts, but primarily want to craft from within the walls. Something to equip in times of trouble. Something for them, as well as the career police/guards that will assist in direct administration of more urbanized areas.

the choice of Spine is actually a no-brainer to me. From the arts we've seen that use Spine, they have very broad application and mixture into other meridian types for a wide variety of kinds of personal empowerment. Spine Head, Spine Leg, Spine Arm, Spine Heart, Spine Lung. It has been a very broad and malleable meridian, and would likely be a good first choice to open regardless of desires.

The goal at the Strat Level is to lengthen the survival rate of Reds so that they may specialize over time as well as potentially build up wealth and found a cultivator clan. If we give them the tools to survive for long enough, they will be able to choose specializations that suit them over time. This is the stance <3

Most Red cultivators bottleneck hard. So getting them to building experience is a secondary concern at best.
I think there are cultivation arts just for low talent commoners that have large direct benefits but permanent long term cultivation penalties.

Also I think more than 2 meridians is optimistic, a talent 2 cultivator needs 30 dice to have ~50% chance of getting any progress on opening their first meridian, 40 for their second.
This is just doable [talent (2) + red stones (5) + teacher (8) + strong medicine(10) + site (5) + cultivation art (+1 success)] but hard.
Especially since failure is painful and can lead to serious injuries. Most people will have a hard time focusing after a few failures when they start fearing the pain.
 
Most Red cultivators bottleneck hard. So getting them to building experience is a secondary concern at best.
I think there are cultivation arts just for low talent commoners that have large direct benefits but permanent long term cultivation penalties.

Also I think more than 2 meridians is optimistic, a talent 2 cultivator needs 30 dice to have ~50% chance of getting any progress on opening their first meridian, 40 for their second.
This is just doable [talent (2) + red stones (5) + teacher (8) + strong medicine(10) + site (5) + cultivation art (+1 success)] but hard.
Especially since failure is painful and can lead to serious injuries. Most people will have a hard time focusing after a few failures when they start fearing the pain.

I believe Yrs confirmed it at one point that low talent Reds/Yellows are given a cultivation art that's entire purpose to the exclusion of everything else to help open meridians and make it so that talent 2's and the like can manage to open enough meridians that they can equip a useful suite of arts.

So dedicate neighbored time and effort for someone to become a Red, get enough meridians, learn the arts you give them, and then after that further substantial cultivation resources are likely given on an "as earned" basis.
 
Most Red cultivators bottleneck hard. So getting them to building experience is a secondary concern at best.
I think there are cultivation arts just for low talent commoners that have large direct benefits but permanent long term cultivation penalties.

Also I think more than 2 meridians is optimistic, a talent 2 cultivator needs 30 dice to have ~50% chance of getting any progress on opening their first meridian, 40 for their second.
This is just doable [talent (2) + red stones (5) + teacher (8) + strong medicine(10) + site (5) + cultivation art (+1 success)] but hard.
Especially since failure is painful and can lead to serious injuries. Most people will have a hard time focusing after a few failures when they start fearing the pain.
Pretty much. It doesn't matter what the optimal meta-strategy is, when nobody can afford to pay the thousand bucks to get there except the elites who sure as heck aren't going to be Red/Yellow grunts for long, talent or not.

On a Red grunt's budget, assume you have 2 meridians to work with, that these two meridians need to be useful for both work and war, and yrsillar outright said that given cultivators' ability to reach very high levels of mortal skill, you don't need a specific art to do a specific thing.

Like, the difference between a Red Art powered arrow and a completely vanilla arrow is statistically equivalent to shooting 1.4x(and half of that is Cultivation Advantage) as often.
 
which is why I would recommend mobility and defense. That little bit of buffer and travel range/speed allows Reds to be much safer doing a variety of tasks. And sure, we can say that experience is a secondary concern . . but like. It's a concern that is important for a region that will be developing. And I feel like 20% boost on mobility and defense is more consistent than forcing squads to group-buff. especially since cultivation advantage is roughly 20% boost anyway. *maybe* a variety of mobility and auras would be better. I'd just rather have longer lived Reds to preserve investment and knowledge/experience.
Overlapping buffs might be better in terms of dedicated squads, but individual self-sufficiency is really good for a broad deployment range. Perhaps though, auras and mobility would win out generally. Mobility is the stat I'm most concerned with.
 
Seems like in alot of cases you would be better off have 2 times as many mortals as having a bunch of reds fighting. Similar effect and much cheaper.

Edit: I am now imagining the effects of guns being invented. That is the effects of a mass producable weapon that anyone can use with little training that makes a moral about as dangerous as a red.
 
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Edit: I am now imagining the effects of guns being invented. That is the effects of a mass producable weapon that anyone can use with little training that makes a moral about as dangerous as a red.

Eventually, gun cultivation arts will be created, probably the same as when the bow was created. A gun might hurt a red badly, but somebody's eventually going to make the equivalent of the falling stars art or other bow arts for guns, and after that red cultivators will probably be significantly more dangerous than plain mortals with guns, not to mention the physical cultivation lets them aim better and reload faster.
 
Pretty much. It doesn't matter what the optimal meta-strategy is, when nobody can afford to pay the thousand bucks to get there except the elites who sure as heck aren't going to be Red/Yellow grunts for long, talent or not.

On a Red grunt's budget, assume you have 2 meridians to work with, that these two meridians need to be useful for both work and war, and yrsillar outright said that given cultivators' ability to reach very high levels of mortal skill, you don't need a specific art to do a specific thing.

Like, the difference between a Red Art powered arrow and a completely vanilla arrow is statistically equivalent to shooting 1.4x(and half of that is Cultivation Advantage) as often.
I think a Red Grunt is 'assume you have no meridians'. the ones who have meridians are very much the elite of the reds, unless things changed: basically, the Talent 3 rather than the Talent 2, or the ones who have a very good meridian cultivation art as well as a lot of money.

To get your first meridian open, you need a 5 success, barring special cultivation art (Argent Soul gives -1 to success needed). Even a rich Talent 2 is going to maybe have something like Talent 2 + RSS 5 + Cultivation art 5 + Pills 8 + Teacher 5 = 25 dice, and that's assuming having significant more ressource than a grunts likely have.

Talent 2 only get successes on 1s, so even when splurging money wise they are going to need really, really good luck to open a meridian without both flat success bonus from ressources/cultivation art, and "get really lucky and get 4 successes, which gives a +1 to the success for the next try".

Basically, the ones with a few meridians opened in reds are either going to be the ones who have been trying for like 15 years in a row to open them, or the 'elite' Talent 3s.
 
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