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To be real, training makes sure they have a bigger amount of something than a normal chapter has. Bigger amount of Librarians or Technamarines and etc.
The Long Founding (Warhammer 40k)
- Thread starter undead frog
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- Wherever I feel like being
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uuuuhhh... Wut? This is post Horus Heresy, the Thousand Sons are a Traitor Legion.
lancelot
Completely worth it
Frog if we take this does that mean we can get librarian Dreadnaughts?
As for everyone else can we be series here, each chapter doesn't need to do everything and you people are spreading them so thin that they'll not be nearly as effective as they should be.
They already have a lot of psyker so taking Librarians makes them mostly psykers.
They'll be a dedicated anti warp chapters slowing with the light of the Emperor they don't need politics, or spying. When all their psyker powers are protected from chaos tampering.
Double down on sword skills, Melee weapons are AWAY more effective on Daemons of all types. Terminator armor, plus psykers, plus double sword masters means every Librarian is swinging a Guts sized Force Swords. Call them dragon slayers or dragon fangs.
Don't need deep Strike as with their anti deamon Aura they can teleport through the warp oln their own power with a level of safety NONE can match.
Between their psyker power and dragons they'll be sent in to kill the largest of targets. SO if you can't get the psyker Dreadnaughts, trade to get more techmarines if possible.
[]Plan: Defending the Hoard
-[] Write in Name: The Golden Dragons
-[]Write in or post a picture of the chapter colors: Gold with dark green trim and navy blue highlights
-[] Write in chapter symbol: This but colored in gold
-[] Write in chapter creed. (Optional). "A dragon's hoard is is home", "Let none come between you and your hoard"
-[] Techmarines: This chapter has more Techmarines in its ranks than normal, improving the quality of their equipment and allowing them to create a greater quantity of advanced wargear.
-[] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[] Entrenchment: The Chapter is better at erecting and maintaining fortifications than average.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
We're supposed to be defending the technology as well as studying it so I think entrenchment makes sense.
-[] Write in Name: The Golden Dragons
-[]Write in or post a picture of the chapter colors: Gold with dark green trim and navy blue highlights
-[] Write in chapter symbol: This but colored in gold
-[] Write in chapter creed. (Optional). "A dragon's hoard is is home", "Let none come between you and your hoard"
-[] Techmarines: This chapter has more Techmarines in its ranks than normal, improving the quality of their equipment and allowing them to create a greater quantity of advanced wargear.
-[] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[] Entrenchment: The Chapter is better at erecting and maintaining fortifications than average.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
We're supposed to be defending the technology as well as studying it so I think entrenchment makes sense.
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Can we please, stop with the dragon theming? Cool, they have pet Dragons and Scales, but please, can we not make them into Space Wolves where they entire personality is "MuH DrAgOnS", the fact alone we got any reptilian mutations was a massive stroke of luck.
I'm just sick already of people talking only about the Dragons, as if Salamanders were about nothing but reptiles, they great smiths, are obsessed with fire, have tons of various rituals to honor the death and are know to undertake pilgrimages of certain death through burning desert to heal their spirits, keep contact with their baseline Human families.
There's more to them than the Salamanders animals that live on Nocturne, and the same should be with this Chapter, flanderization should be the last thing we want to do with the Chapter, the fact they have pet Dragons, should be just one trait of theirs, not everything they are.
[] Plan: The Golden Sons.
-[] Chapter Name: The Golden Sons.
-[] Chapter Colours: Most Chapter members wear armour with Gold as the primary colour and Red as the secondary colour. The Exception being Librarians and Techmarines who are know to paint they armours with extra colours. Librarians add Royal Blue to various degrees, usually: Left Gauntlet, Helmet and Kneeplate, while Techmarines add Bright Green to various degrees, usually: Right Gauntlet, Pauldrons and Helmet.
-[] Chapter Symbol: White Flame, with a single, open, red eye at the centre and two golden scaled wings at it's sides.
-[] Chapter Creed: "Guard knowledge well, for it's a double edged blade."
--[] Battle Cry: "Burn in flames Xeno/Traitor/Mutant/Daemon!".
-[] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[] Techmarines: This chapter has more Techmarines in its ranks than normal, improving the quality of their equipment and allowing them to create a greater quantity of advanced wargear.
-[] Entrenchment: The Chapter is better at erecting and maintaining fortifications than average.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
I'm also fine with using "Guard the people" as Chapter creed, but I really wanted them to reference knowledge, while pointing out the need for temperance and being carefully for what the knowledge is used for or what the knowledge itself is, you know, discarding the arrogance the Thousand Sons suffered and still suffer from.
Same with Entrenchment, I'm fine with Blademasters, but I would prefer diversifying on that field rather than maxing it like we did with Eternal Guard, I just don't feel it's needed nor fitting for this Chapter. I wanted to use Chaplains for comfort due to mutations but considering how positive they are, I don't think it's needed, so the only option other than Entrenchment are Apothecaries or maxing out the melee as far as I'm concerned.
I'm just sick already of people talking only about the Dragons, as if Salamanders were about nothing but reptiles, they great smiths, are obsessed with fire, have tons of various rituals to honor the death and are know to undertake pilgrimages of certain death through burning desert to heal their spirits, keep contact with their baseline Human families.
There's more to them than the Salamanders animals that live on Nocturne, and the same should be with this Chapter, flanderization should be the last thing we want to do with the Chapter, the fact they have pet Dragons, should be just one trait of theirs, not everything they are.
[] Plan: The Golden Sons.
-[] Chapter Name: The Golden Sons.
-[] Chapter Colours: Most Chapter members wear armour with Gold as the primary colour and Red as the secondary colour. The Exception being Librarians and Techmarines who are know to paint they armours with extra colours. Librarians add Royal Blue to various degrees, usually: Left Gauntlet, Helmet and Kneeplate, while Techmarines add Bright Green to various degrees, usually: Right Gauntlet, Pauldrons and Helmet.
-[] Chapter Symbol: White Flame, with a single, open, red eye at the centre and two golden scaled wings at it's sides.
-[] Chapter Creed: "Guard knowledge well, for it's a double edged blade."
--[] Battle Cry: "Burn in flames Xeno/Traitor/Mutant/Daemon!".
-[] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[] Techmarines: This chapter has more Techmarines in its ranks than normal, improving the quality of their equipment and allowing them to create a greater quantity of advanced wargear.
-[] Entrenchment: The Chapter is better at erecting and maintaining fortifications than average.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
I'm also fine with using "Guard the people" as Chapter creed, but I really wanted them to reference knowledge, while pointing out the need for temperance and being carefully for what the knowledge is used for or what the knowledge itself is, you know, discarding the arrogance the Thousand Sons suffered and still suffer from.
Same with Entrenchment, I'm fine with Blademasters, but I would prefer diversifying on that field rather than maxing it like we did with Eternal Guard, I just don't feel it's needed nor fitting for this Chapter. I wanted to use Chaplains for comfort due to mutations but considering how positive they are, I don't think it's needed, so the only option other than Entrenchment are Apothecaries or maxing out the melee as far as I'm concerned.
If we choose Librarians, we get even more powerful, well trained and numerous Librarians. Remember how Eternal Guard are masters of melee and only Black Templars among Imperial Fists succesors can rival them? This but with Librarians who have Daemon-purging powers of Emperor and are already naturally powerful Psykers by default. Maxing it out makes perfect sense.
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Why I'm the world do people keep insisting on politic when other have pointed out it does jack shit in this situation and doesn't actually help boost them in the areas that the Emperor intended?
Really feels like people do not want to listen when everyone else keeps pointing out that SM are not supposed to be getting involved in politics. Or the fact that her Emperor has his own plans for this chapter?
If we are going with this chapter librarians and tech marines are an absolute must since they are meant to be powerful pykers and handle specific technology. Going with something like a politics and counter intelligence combo seems like it's actually going against the Emperors main intention for this chapter in the first place since the main intentions are powerful psykers and technology, not anything related to politics.
Really feels like people do not want to listen when everyone else keeps pointing out that SM are not supposed to be getting involved in politics. Or the fact that her Emperor has his own plans for this chapter?
If we are going with this chapter librarians and tech marines are an absolute must since they are meant to be powerful pykers and handle specific technology. Going with something like a politics and counter intelligence combo seems like it's actually going against the Emperors main intention for this chapter in the first place since the main intentions are powerful psykers and technology, not anything related to politics.
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...the irony given possible golden skin mutation if we went with Iron Hands.
Btw...we have Golden Dragons on the world...
I think people need to chill out and relax because from what I see, people are heated about what to choose. I believe every training gives us something but we need to remember about Chapter's strengths, weaknesses and most importantly, a priority of the request which is protecting the tech that was given.
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- Borderworld, Xen
I think it's a good name⁰ T.T ⁰The only thing to dislike about this plan is the name
please come up with a better one
Because it would help them make allies and keep the High Lords off their back. The High Lords can easily fuck with us if risk their power. With allies we could secure better support from the Administratum and Machanicus.
Yes. but we are using thousand sons geneseed, that is what i meant.
I understand, but i rather trade that training for something else, as i said this chapter has to protect some tech, and while Psychers are a game changer, i rather take artillery instead. the training they can get it with politics, if Undead Frog accepts that they do ask another chapter to train their librarians, they may not be as strong as if we do this? problably, but i believe it is a good trade off in this case.
Because we have made points that politics may work? I don't know if you skip what you dislike but we have made some points that politics may actually be good so that the leaders of the Imperium of Man let the chapter do their purpose, as well as other things
And we risk their power, how? If Keepers of Truth who actually oppose one of largest organisations in the Imperium, who's leader is one of High Lords, didn't get exterminated still, there's no reason why this Chapter, who by default have protection due to Emperor being the one who commisioned the whole Chapter, would be remotely hindered by High Lords in their task, the whole purpouse of the Chapter is just to guard specific form of technology given to them by Emperor, why would High Lords go "They are danger to Muh PoWah! Kill them alll!!!11!".
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- United states
Now this is just coming across a pure fear mongering because again people messing with SM when it comes to politic don't ever happen. People have repeatedly said this would be a problem for numerous of our previous chapters and it has repeatedly been proven wrong.
And in this case it especially doesn't make sense considering that they have not only been commissioned by the Emperor himself through word of his Custodes but have been blatantly blessed by him as well. The Emperor is above everyone including the High Lords, so they are extremely unlikely to do anything. If anything getting involved in politics would seem like it would ironically get them involved because said marines are getting involved politic when they are not supposed to and would have likely ignored them otherwise.
Given that they are created on the direct order of the Emperor, messing with them without EXTREMLY good reasons is a quick way to get executed by Custodes.
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- Kho
Because we are talking about idiots who jump at their own shadow for having to much similarities to them and then proceed to order their death?
- Location
- United states
That's terrible reasoning considering that no one does jack shit to the Custodes. And a large part of that is because they stay the hell out of politics for nearly the entire time.
This is what I mean in regards to fear mongering. You have people saying that they are for some reason going to want to mess with this chapter but people keep pointing out it just makes zero sense for them to do so. Especially if they aren't even involving themselves in politics.
Then why they didn't demand execution of Ultramarines who have a entire sub-realm of their own? Or in this quest, why they decided to go off the Keepers of Truth backs and allow continued existence of entire sub-realm which is against Ecclesiarchy?
High Lords are paranoid, but's that just stupid assumption to make, that they will demand execution of a entire Chapter, commisioned by Emperor no less, just because they close to Terra and have some, very positive mutations that would likely be seen as blessings by large portion of Imperium populace. Might as well argue that every Chapter we make needs to have politics training, because High Lords might one day fear them.
They are paranoid, but they don't literally nuke planets left and right, out of fear, like you seem to think. There's no reason for High Lords to fear the Chapter, and getting into politics is more likely to have them start fearing them and want them gone. Chapters already have massive autonomy in the Imperium, being able to govern their recruiting worlds as they please, messing with stuff outside of their domain, is more likely to piss off High Lords, and actually for good reason, than existing.
Who and for what they would manipulate them? Does it even make difference, when the whole point of Astarted is protecting Imperium? They wouldn't be specialy commisoned lap-dogs of High Lords like Minotaurs, again, Space Marines have massive autonomy within Imperium.
No offence, but do you people just want to do stuff for the sake of it? Wasting what we have because we can waste it?
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Again, that makes no freaking sense since that would be insanely suicidal for the High Lords since that would be going against the Emperors will himself. Not only would that piss off the Custodes but every true loyalist faction like the Sisters and Black Templars.
It makes zero sense for them to risk so much just because of some guys whose job, given to them by the Emperor himself, is guarding some tech.
The keepers of truth remain alive because the church could not eliminate them, because they had allies (other chapters in the region) and because when the problem started to grow too much a freaking custodes went there and forced a ceasfire.
Said ceasfire is extremly fragile and at any point risk coming to life, if the church could keep an info blockade they would without a doubt strike again and try to eliminate them.
Edit: here you have it
It is not fearmongering, given how slow and inefficient the administration is in WH 40k what are the odds that the high lords or some influencial upper nobility does not recieve the memo, or does not believe it until it is too late?
Or that someone decides to accuse this chapter of heresy to investigate what are they protecting? and here i will also add chaos agents hiden in the imperium, because there are hereteks, heretic/traitorous inquisitors and plenty of other things.
So rather than give them a training that specializes them in combat, i rather give them training to deal with "social" threats.
Not everything can be solved by a bolter and flammer (unfortunetly).
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And Custodes wouldn't step in, for this situation, because? The entire Chapter got commisioned by Emperor, the Custodes solving the issues is more likely than not.
And you point about slow communication might as well apply to everyone in the Imperium "you protect something and can't tell what it is? Heresy!" yet, many Chapters, regiments and whole planets survive for thousands of years, there are conflicts happening between factions in the Imperium but casualities aren't so heavy as to anihilate whole Chapter or regiments from day to day.
Also, they are literally in the Segmentum Solar, right outside of Terra, if someone doesn't have to fear communication errors within the Imperium, this Chapter is definitely this.
And again, you might as well argue we need to add anti-infilitration or politics to every Chapter, because Chaos is right outside the corner apparently! Plenty of Chapter do nothing but kill or do sketchy stuff and they do fine without training in politics.
With all due respect, I don't believe you people want this Chapter to be good at it's job and just want to waste the extra training we have for the sake of waisting it.
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First off the issue with the Keepers was because they specifically constantly involved themselves with politics and did so in a way that everyone in thread agreed would lead to issues. Even then once the Custodes got involved they knocked it off immediately. They also practiced an ideology that was completely counter to the Imperils Faith.
Second yes it is absolutely fear mongering when the things you are saying will happen haven't actually happened even with our previous chapers minus the keepers. The scenarios are also ridiculously convoluted and fall apart right away with common sense. Like the freaking Custodes whole thing is that they guard the Emperor on Terra and even have one of their own on the High Lords council. Them not knowing about the Emperors own decree on this matter makes no goddamn sense considering that fact alone.
Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
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-[ ] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[ ] Techmarines: This chapter has more Techmarines in its ranks than normal, improving the quality of their equipment and allowing them to create a greater quantity of advanced wargear.
-[ ] Counterintelligence Training: The Chapter is proficient in the art of detecting and thwarting enemy infiltration attempts.
-[ ] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
Big E wants powerful psykers with important technology and for it all to be hush hush.
These 3 trainings work for that, and the Dreadnoughts just let more wounded veterans live longer.
I have no opinions on the theming.
-[ ] Techmarines: This chapter has more Techmarines in its ranks than normal, improving the quality of their equipment and allowing them to create a greater quantity of advanced wargear.
-[ ] Counterintelligence Training: The Chapter is proficient in the art of detecting and thwarting enemy infiltration attempts.
-[ ] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
Big E wants powerful psykers with important technology and for it all to be hush hush.
These 3 trainings work for that, and the Dreadnoughts just let more wounded veterans live longer.
I have no opinions on the theming.