Qoren probably doesn't want to lose a Dornish Lord when they inevitably try something during the ceremony.
Viserys /Otto on the other hand...
[X] Accept them as is
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
Qoren probably doesn't want to lose a Dornish Lord when they inevitably try something during the ceremony.
Viserys /Otto on the other hand...
[X] Accept them as is
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I am actually curious about what's going on there so I'll approval vote just asking about what's going on with the Stepstones with no actual changes to the deal being requested.
[X] Accept them as is
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
[X] Accept them as is
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
Voting Closed
New
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay I'm gonna call it here
crusaderking01
Warden of gays
- Pronouns
- He/They
Damn it. Civil war 3.0 with a side of assassination it is then. Like the possible enemies list wasn't big enough already.
- Location
- Spain
Well, congratulations Viserys!!! You did manage cut a pretty good deal With Qooren, so good in fact that your Defiant Daughter accepted it without hesistantion...
Unfortunately it seems that to balance Rhaenyra avoiding getting into her Bratty-Emo-Teen Phase (Besides the Knighthood thingy) and acting like reasonable and responsible heiress, Daemon seems to doubling up being himself in the Stepstones so he is an even worse pain in the side...
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
You shouldn't bother protesting againist the Dornish lobby in the thread. I tried pointing that this was terrible idea for so long, but everybody ignored me.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Daddy's business acumen had little to do with it, we just collectively decided to be a doormat.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Part of the problem is the structure of vote.
Prewritten votes always have higher turnout than write-in votes, so when you combine a prewritten vote with a write-in, the write-in starts at a serious disadvantage.
That the vote is also structured to split one side of the vote along a series of complex plans and not the other not certainly doesn't help.
If you had structured the vote something like this :
- Accept clause A
- Negotiate clause A
- Accept clause B
-Negotiate clause B
- Accept Clause C
- Negotiate clause C
Or, even a blanket Yes/No renegotiation vote, with details to be hashed out later it's highly likely that at least one would have passed.
But with the way the vote was structured, no negotiations passing was a foregone conclusion.
A vote tally that was a tie becomes a complete victory, because renegotiate not only has to wait for a plan to be proposed, it also gets split 5-ways, while Accept can vote blindly.
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Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
Blame the Pro-Dornish lobby in this thread. I have been dealing with them for ages.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
For someone who doesn't bother protesting, you're making an aweful lot of noise.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
Well, I stopped protesting their stupid descions ealier, when I discovered bring up the fact we have turned the Reach (which has 80,000 men) and Stormlands (which has 30,000 men) againist us in one move wouldn't stop them.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
People generally don't like engaging with someone who mostly posts to be angry about what most of the thread wants or salty about the outcome of votes. Especially when a lot of the comments you make either make a huge issue out of every challenge, regardless of how manageable it is, or come into the discussion from the position that the people who disagree with you must be completely unaware of the problems you've only brought up for a hundredth time.
Come on. Stop this. Please. It makes the thread a less pleasant place.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
I am only "salty" and "angry" when people are being stupid. Additionaly is at least 100,000 men (I am not even counting the Westerlanders yet) really, that managable.
Well, they have been acting as if they are unaware, which could be avoided be at least try to address my concerns.
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hellgodsrus
Actual Real Game Dev!
- Location
- Behind You
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah this is a fucking mistake. Sigh. Oh well.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is a quest, not an important real life debate. Thinking that other people are making a wrong turn doesn't justify endless saltposts about how they're "being stupid". If you're THAT out of step with most of the thread, the right move is to either disengage or continue arguing for your position politely and constructively, not ruin the vibes with constant complaints that don't actually change anyone's mind, but do make coming here less fun.
Three dragons conquered almost the entirety of Westeros and made such an impression on the remainder that even a hint of us possibly Coming Over There Again was enough to make Dorne consider joining voluntarily. Men are not an insurmountable problem. And as far as dragons go, we have over a decade yet to work on our relationships with other riders.
Did you forget that people have engaged with your arguments at length and with serious effort to address them in the past? You must have, because again, you're insisting that everyone who doesn't agree with you is unaware of your arguments and/or stupid.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Let's say Johanna's next spawn is a boy to make things worse for ourselves. The absolute worst-case scenario is then something like a Daemon-Laena marriage (ew) mobilizing the Velaryon dragonriders and Daemon and either or both of a Gwayne-Helaena (ew!) and an Alicent-Johanna's son marriage (ew!!) mobilizing the Westerling dragonriders. We would have ourselves and our children (including the heir to Sunspear) for dragonriders. The Velaryons and Daemon have four dragons, and the oldest. The Westerlings probably have no more than two, and probably the youngest. We may have three or four, also on the young side unless our kids claim Vermithor and Silverwing, which they should. Say the Velaryons pick up the Stormlands for proximity, and the Westerlings-Hightowers pick up the Reach marchers and the Westerlands (even though they shouldn't get the latter, because Lannisters shouldn't be fighting to elevate their vassals; we're doing worst-case scenarios here). We have Dorne and Dragonstone. That leaves the larger part of the Reach, the Riverlands, the Vale, and the North for us to look for allies, and we've made a decent reputation in the latter two. We could acquit ourselves reasonably well even in that worst-case scenario.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmmm. Is there any possibility of a Westerling-Velaryon alliance instead? Sure, Corlys is a proud man, but he's just been locked out of a marriage for his kids with either our father or us, so the next most likely goal is our hypothetical half-brother.
Huh. Would the worst worst case scenario be something like a daughter of Laena and Daemon being promised to said hypothetical half-brother? Or would that be unrealistic/out of character for some of the people involved? (I'm asking because I actually don't know)
As far as things go i think that:
1) The marsherlords are mostly lost to us(they hate the Dornish)
2) The Stormlands are also mostly lost to us because we are a woman and we won their liege in a joust.
3)We already have locked as allies: Most of the Vale, The entire North.
4) We will have time to win over most of the Riverlands, Crowlands and Reach.
5) The Westerlands we might not get most of houses but we may find a way to at least have a minority there.
About Daemon: I think it is obvious that he will wage a war against us as soon his Brother dies, so no surprises there. He is also shit at politics, so while he might marry with Laena or any Velarion, i have severe doubts that he will make a lot of allies.
The Westerlings: I think we have a good relationship with them and more importantly with Queen Johanna, so i say that if we guarantee the safety of her children she will be happy to follow us.
Bottom-line: War will come but i think that we have ample time to make alliances and put ourselves in an even better position.
1) The marsherlords are mostly lost to us(they hate the Dornish)
2) The Stormlands are also mostly lost to us because we are a woman and we won their liege in a joust.
3)We already have locked as allies: Most of the Vale, The entire North.
4) We will have time to win over most of the Riverlands, Crowlands and Reach.
5) The Westerlands we might not get most of houses but we may find a way to at least have a minority there.
About Daemon: I think it is obvious that he will wage a war against us as soon his Brother dies, so no surprises there. He is also shit at politics, so while he might marry with Laena or any Velarion, i have severe doubts that he will make a lot of allies.
The Westerlings: I think we have a good relationship with them and more importantly with Queen Johanna, so i say that if we guarantee the safety of her children she will be happy to follow us.
Bottom-line: War will come but i think that we have ample time to make alliances and put ourselves in an even better position.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The problem with Daemon is that he's actually pretty damn good at a bunch of things (including, oddly enough, intrigue). He's also impulsive, irrational, egotistic, and prone to alienating people, but that doesn't make him any less of a wildcard threat.
The problem with Johanna is that she hates us. She doesn't know it yet. But we can't count on being able to keep our relationship with Alicent secret forever, and if/when Johanna finds out, she's gonna be lost to us as an ally, and her children might be too.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is a quibble, but I think Borros might have taken a mere loss in good humor. No one is invincible in a joust, and Stormlanders know from fighting Dornishwomen how high women's prowess can be. The problem is that we injured him quite severely and neither he nor his kin nor their vassals appreciate that at all.
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UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
Now that the vote ended and the discussion has advanced to about future consideration, I wanted to ask the thread to please support preparatory multi-turns in...
marriage relationship we must impress Otto Hightower that we are indeed a proper suitor.
Unfortunately Otto will not be impressed by our Gallant Knight self. Otto, principal decision maker in this deal, is skeptical of us and not easily moved by affection like Viserys did when we ask him to stop marrying Alicent. So Let's see the four times Otto's opinion of us improved.
We see that Otto like when we did him a solid favor like saving Otto from being burned and giving Gwayne important position. We also see that Otto like Clever plan like sending Daemon to the Stepstone and Shrewd deal when we formulate a good deal for Corlys as we seen when we brought the deal to Otto.
Impressing Otto we need to give him a solid favor, a clever plan, and/or a shrewd deal.
Unfortunately All the previous problem where we give smart and clever deal we are benefited from OOC insight by still treading canon ground and IC insight by meeting with other involved and insightful people as well. So we need to amass influence and information to make a smart and good deal that can impress Otto like speaking with Gwayne and Ser Harrold.
I propose we at the very least to invest efforts for Otto deal for Alicent's hand as much as our effort to prevent Alicent marriage to Viserys because principally this is still the same matter.
Because for Otto this is just another political match.
This is repost of previous next turn draft for ease of reading.
[] Draft Betrothal Preparation fo Otto
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Gwayne And Alicent
-[] [Action] Prepare for a Trip to Dragonstone
-[] [Action] Sneak out and Explore the City/[] [Action] Study Valyrian History with your Father.
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Commander Harrold Westerling
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyman Beesbury / [] [Conversation] Speak with Rhaenys Targaryen / [] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyonel Strong / [] [Conversation] Speak with Isembard Arryn
-[] [Action] Fly to Harrenhal
I hope this is included in your consideration and thank you.
Also If I may ask @Teen Spirit can we invite Laena and/or Qoren, to Dragonstone if we prepare next turn. Thank you.
WOO-ING OTTO HIGHTOWER 💝
As it seems a political approach in negotiating with Otto is not popular. Let's approach Otto with romance in mind. In effort to get the blessing of our Lady's Father on our
Unfortunately Otto will not be impressed by our Gallant Knight self. Otto, principal decision maker in this deal, is skeptical of us and not easily moved by affection like Viserys did when we ask him to stop marrying Alicent. So Let's see the four times Otto's opinion of us improved.
We see that Otto like when we did him a solid favor like saving Otto from being burned and giving Gwayne important position. We also see that Otto like Clever plan like sending Daemon to the Stepstone and Shrewd deal when we formulate a good deal for Corlys as we seen when we brought the deal to Otto.
Impressing Otto we need to give him a solid favor, a clever plan, and/or a shrewd deal.
Unfortunately All the previous problem where we give smart and clever deal we are benefited from OOC insight by still treading canon ground and IC insight by meeting with other involved and insightful people as well. So we need to amass influence and information to make a smart and good deal that can impress Otto like speaking with Gwayne and Ser Harrold.
I propose we at the very least to invest efforts for Otto deal for Alicent's hand as much as our effort to prevent Alicent marriage to Viserys because principally this is still the same matter.
Because for Otto this is just another political match.
This is repost of previous next turn draft for ease of reading.
[] Draft Betrothal Preparation fo Otto
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Gwayne And Alicent
-[] [Action] Prepare for a Trip to Dragonstone
-[] [Action] Sneak out and Explore the City/[] [Action] Study Valyrian History with your Father.
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Commander Harrold Westerling
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyman Beesbury / [] [Conversation] Speak with Rhaenys Targaryen / [] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyonel Strong / [] [Conversation] Speak with Isembard Arryn
-[] [Action] Fly to Harrenhal
My current Draft is based on two main ideas about dual purpose and assumption that at the very least we will negotiate with Otto two turns or longer from now.
The first that the bolded actions can double as prepping for both Otto negotiation and Mellos replacement. Speaking with court involved Ser Harrold, councillor, and Rhaenys may reveal some of Otto desire or Mellos weakness. Going to HH to pickup Alys that can give the good drug and may help us on spy game against Otto.
And the second idea is playing around with possible dual purpose desire and duty from the unbolded actions. Speak with Gwayne and Alicent can be helpful for Otto negotiation and our desire to maintain close friendship with Gwayne. Sneaking out we can learn unofficial information and relax playing in the city. Or relax our Father and learn Valyrian history having extra info for Dragonstone research. Dragonstone trip is to ensure a full relax T17 as Somic visioned. We can also learn about some of our political power and influence from being ruler of Dragonstone and speaking with Isembard.
Why I include Rhaenys is because she is a senior power player and may have advice for negotiating with Otto another old player in the game. Also she is Viserys older cousin and her opinion may be one that Viserys can not dismiss out of hand by being king. It may help to convince Viserys in regard to Mellos.
previous post link for posterity
The first that the bolded actions can double as prepping for both Otto negotiation and Mellos replacement. Speaking with court involved Ser Harrold, councillor, and Rhaenys may reveal some of Otto desire or Mellos weakness. Going to HH to pickup Alys that can give the good drug and may help us on spy game against Otto.
And the second idea is playing around with possible dual purpose desire and duty from the unbolded actions. Speak with Gwayne and Alicent can be helpful for Otto negotiation and our desire to maintain close friendship with Gwayne. Sneaking out we can learn unofficial information and relax playing in the city. Or relax our Father and learn Valyrian history having extra info for Dragonstone research. Dragonstone trip is to ensure a full relax T17 as Somic visioned. We can also learn about some of our political power and influence from being ruler of Dragonstone and speaking with Isembard.
Why I include Rhaenys is because she is a senior power player and may have advice for negotiating with Otto another old player in the game. Also she is Viserys older cousin and her opinion may be one that Viserys can not dismiss out of hand by being king. It may help to convince Viserys in regard to Mellos.
previous post link for posterity
I hope this is included in your consideration and thank you.
Also If I may ask @Teen Spirit can we invite Laena and/or Qoren, to Dragonstone if we prepare next turn. Thank you.
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Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To be fair, we know that 1) the Westerlings are fairly well-regarded and well-connected in the Westerlands, and 2) Jason is a condescending dick with a rather poor opinion on us and the legitimacy of us being heir.
Would that change the equation? Something something better back the option that most of his vassals like and that he's sure would win in the end...
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
I agree with you. I think our great success unfortunately make what was visioned as progress that establish relation with future vassal before serious political alignment happened instead accelerate unmissable opportunity and complicate future relation. If we are not a first female knight Jason may be more amenable to not let his vassal rise up over himself. Though seeing canon Tyrell does not side with Hightower before being defeated. So may be it is unfounded fear.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay to be clear, Accepting it as is won because the vote tally is acting weird.